Nonchalance is Your Friend

[Silverbirch]

So looking forward to hearing how this goes!

[dabbledave]

Hi Crap et al,

 

Love this thread. It's helped me out amazingly well over the last two days. Simply in terms of mind-set--shrugging things off, not taking everything so cripplingly personally.

 

I've drafted an email to my ex. Wondering whether I should send it. Is it too early? Is my new-found confidence still too fragile?

 

I think I'm answering my own questions as I ask them, but would still appreciate you considered feedback, Crap:

 

Dear XXX,

 

I just want to let you know that ...

 

I FORGIVE YOU!

 

Let me explain:

 

I've let out a bunch of very powerful emotions over the past few days. Underlying those emotions I found a lot of repressed anger and insecurity.

 

I know that much of the anger was as a result of deeply hurtful things you've said to me over the course of our relationship and your inability to recognise their inaccuracy, their hurtfulness, and to apologise.

 

The good news is I don't need your apologies any more because I know what my own worth and value is.

 

Much of my insecurity was as a result of mixed messages from you combined with our turbulent relationship history (break-ups related to your interest in other men) as well as your more recent declarations of how you don't respect me. So I could never be quite sure of how committed you were to the relationship at any point in time.

 

The good news is that I don't care about that any more because I have rediscovered my self-respect.

 

But I have done a lot of thinking about why I lost confidence and self-respect. I have been wondering: "Whatever happened to the quirky, independent, happy-go-lucky guy that XXX met four years ago?"

 

What I concluded was that somehow the repressed anger and insecurity built up over time and started to manifest itself as low-level depression expressed in passive aggressive behaviour.

 

For example, all that stuff about going to XXXXXX, applying for jobs in XXXXXX and XXXX and XXXXX -- I never wanted to do that! I wanted to be with you! That was me hoping you'd say: "Please don't go, DD. I love you. I want you to come with me to XXXXX. Let's build a new life together."

 

That was classic passive aggressive behaviour. So was my being uncooperative, irritable, cynical, negative, insecure in my need to be right all the time (as you know I am usually right, but I don't need to be ), petulant, sulky, cold, detached, etc. I have already apologised for all of that.

 

I was also horrible sometimes. And I felt horrible for much of the time. So horrible that I couldn't recognise the underlying issues to just let it all go and forgive you.

 

Anyway, I'm letting all of that go now. That's why I forgive you.

 

And that's why I'm starting to enjoy myself!

 

I'm not telling you all this because I expect anything to change between us.

 

But I do think maybe you could learn from the process I've been through as well.

 

I forgive you. Cool, huh?

 

DD

 

PS. Did I detect a bit of anger or irritation in your last email? Did I ever tell you how sexy you were when you were angry?! Haha!

[CrapAtNC]

Hey, DD, glad this thread is working for you.

 

Re. your email, it's great that you wrote it—but don't send it. You're in a world of pain and confusion right now, and you're not in the right frame of mind to communicate with your ex in such a way. You probably can't see it, but your email is full of blaming, playing victim, and obvious attempts to cover how you really feel.

 

My advice would be this: If you really want to affect her in the ways you do, then simply do and say nothing—it's by far the best policy at this stage. Take your time, find a release for all that anguish, work on yourself, let the water under the bridge before diving back in again.

 

So, say nothing; nothing works!

 

But do keep a diary of your thoughts each day; it will help you immensely. ;-)

[dabbledave]

Thanks Crap,

 

Good point. I won't send it.

 

I do have to stay in contact with her in order to pick up some of my stuff.

 

Do you think an ambiguous "P.S. I forgive you (Let me know if you're interested in a full explanation.)" at the end of my next short email would work?

 

I do actually feel forgiveness in my heart, because I now know how much of a tosser I became and how my inability to "let go" and start having fun again contributed to pushing her away. And I've been playing the blame and victim cards in recent exchanges.

 

Thoughts?

 

DD

[CrapAtNC]

When you tell someone you forgive them, it really just underlines that they did something heinous. Just say nothing about your relationship. If you really want to add something to a communication, make it simple and honest and let convo develop naturally (and carefully) from that. Just add something like "I want you to know I wish none of this bad stuff between us had happened; I'd give anything to turn back the clock. That's all." But only if you haven't already gone over the top with spilling your heart out. You can't talk about what went wrong until you are both in the right place to (want to) do that. Just be patient; the time probably will come.

[CMS]

Dude, ps I forgive you is not non-chalance, its actually full of blaming as it hints that she wronged you. If you want to be non-chalant, dont say I forgive you, knowing that in your heart that you forgive her is enough.

 

And in re staying in contact to pick up your stuff, its my gut feeling that I dont think you can handle face to face communication and still come accross and non-chalant, I think it might be better you wait a while more before you try this. When you do try, only show her the happy side, have a smile on your face at all time and behave like nothing she says will faze or upset you, be funny and even a bit cocky (not so much that you come accross as * * * * ).

 

Anyway good luck DD

 

ps keep that email like a journal, it helps you get over your breakup but do not ever send it under any circumstance.

[dabbledave]

Okay. Got it. Thank you both for your input.

 

If ever she wants to talk about the relationship in the future, then I'll have the opportunity to casually mention that I have let go of all the resentment and bitterness that made me a * * * * .

 

Ta,

 

DD

[CMS]

Okay. Got it. Thank you both for your input.

 

If ever she wants to talk about the relationship in the future, then I'll have the opportunity to casually mention that I have let go of all the resentment and bitterness that made me a * * * * .

 

Ta,

 

DD

 

Thats a good starting point, but you know whats better? letting go the resentment and anger is the first step towards true non-chalance, instead of saying you have let go the resentment, show her that in your action, attitude and body language. Action speaks way way louder than words and believe me women can pick up that attitude demonstrated in your action and body language and you will come accross as confident and attractive, a man that knows his reality and that's also the man that women wants.

 

On the flip side of the coin, it takes a while to achieve that state, to let go the resentment, you need to find an outlet for it, I found the quickest way to do this is write out your angry emotions on a notepad or email, writing out those emotions helps you find an outlet for that negativity, but do not send it, talk to a therapist if needed but do not send it.

 

Good luck on your path to non-chalance

[dabbledave]

Thats a good starting point, but you know whats better? show her that instead of saying it, action speaks way way louder than words and believe me women can pick up that attitude demonstrated in your action and body language.

 

Definitely, but after we broke up I packed my backpack and started travelling. The first few days were okay, then I hit an emotional wall, broke all the post-BU rules with emails (maybe because I'm travelling alone with no-one to hold me back; in previous BUs I had more self-control). I really did not enjoy myself for a few days. Now I'm recovering, starting to enjoy myself, and seeing things more clearly. I'd like that to be reflected in future messages I (have to) send. I agree that "I forgive you " is too strong even with the smiley. Maybe I just have to hint at what a good time I'm having on my travels. "Had a brilliant night last night " -- that sort of thing.

[dabbledave]

Have you ever tried catching a cat who is spooked? They stay away. We chase. They run further. We stop chasing. They come out of hiding. We make a move towards them to reward them for their bravery, and they immediately run away again. We don't move. They come out. We don't even look. They move towards us. We turn. We narrow our eyes--a friendly smile to a cat--and they approach. We turn away. They make contact. We try to touch them. They run away again. Then we just stick to not moving and friendly cat smiles and they end up on our lap.

 

This is from page 30 of the thread; I'm making my way through it!

 

I love this analogy as I'm a bit of a cat whisperer myself. It offers a nice description of what I need to do to rebuild any kind of healthy relationship (friendship or more) with X.

 

DD

[LittleMonkey]

Hey, so I'd appreciate your help on my case.. The previous events are described on my previous thread:

 

 

In one sentence, I've decided to make contact after 7 weeks NC, seemed right, we talked a light talk, she was surprised I called all of a sudden after hiding her from all chats, but she was all tied up for the next week so I couldn't set a meeting yet. She also asked me if I unhid her already from facebook chat. Tried to show coolness and give hints about what I've been doing and improving (but not much and not obviously) when she started prying for info I cut the call short, about 10 minutes. After the call I unhid her and waited...

I found out she herself hid me from FB chat, which was strange considering she asked if I unhid her... anyways after some stressful time I suddenly saw she commented on two pics of my cats I've uploaded the other day. A few minutes after that she's suddenly online on chat, unhid me probably. I waited for a little while so I wont be seen as despreate, and said hey. the conversation was very short, I cut it off a few minutes with saying I need to go have something to eat with the guys. I said I'll call her later. (that was about 6:30PM)

A few hours later, about 9:30PM I called again and made some light talk, showed fun and nonchalance, asked about her schedule for the next week. The conversation went alright. I told her I'm going to a bar later on. She asked with whom (maybe checking to see if I'm going with a girl.. dunno hehe) she said she went to this stand up club the previous day, it wa great and "we should go there"(not sure if that was something she said out of habit though) She ended it (not sure if it was real or her attempt to cut it short) said she'll call later. I told her alright, that she'll call me when she has the schedule.

Now, sitting at the bar I didn't really think she'll call, not in the same day at least. Suddenly, at about 11:30PM she calls, and I was going to go outside as it was pretty noisy in the bar. My friend stops me and tells me to answer inside and then take it outside. That was GENIUS. She suddenly saw how I'm hanging out and that added credibility to what I said... anyways, she told me her shifts this week are all afternoon-night (I'm working in the mornings), and that she's going abroad for a week on Thursday, (returning two days before her birthday) I told her we could arrange a breakfast in the city on Tuesday. She said we could but still not sure if she'll be able to because she finishes work late the previous day, so we may meet but it's not a sure thing. She said that if we don't meet this week we'll meet after she comes back, on her birthday (now I'm not sure if she actually meant that...), I said okay, not to show any desperation to meet her, keep my cool. we said good night and that we'll be in touch to see what happens during the week.

Overall the call went pretty good I think, light & fun. This all thing is SO stressful, talking to her is like holding my breath. Hope she doesn't forget about me when she's on the trip.. (she goes with her family).

A day after that I've discovered that there are no trains (crappy train company) from her place to mine on Tuesday... which means we probably won't meet before she goes for the vacation... That Sucks! Until things looked okay...

I thought about taking half a day off from work (not mentioning it to her, make it not a big deal, and drive over to her town so we'll meet there for coffee, which means less pressure for her traffic-wise, and if she agrees I could drive her to her workplace. I just thought it's better that we met before the birthday so on the birthday we could be on good relations, maybe then I'll give her the gift, BUT I didn't want her to think I'm making too much of an effort/too eager.

So I called her on Monday, it was a nice little chat, told her about the trains, and she said that we'll meet after she comes back. I decided not to bring up the option of me driving to her place to meet, felt more right. Acted casual during the call. We talked a bit about her work, and that we'll exchange experiences from her vacation. I said I needed to go to lunch, and asked her to talk to me before she's going, she said cool.

However, Yesterday (the day she went on the vacation) she didn't call like she said.. It kind of bums me up, I really hoped she would call, but I'm trying to not let it have too much significance. Didn't want to call her yesterday too, to not show neediness. I just don't know what to do about after she comes back.. do I wait for her to call? I want her to initiate calls too, how do I pique her interest? I've gone through a lot of positive changes and improved, and tried to work on many aspects of my life (working out, moving to an apartment in the city, getting a job, new clothes etc, reflecting on the breakup and seeing my faults), but I don't know if it's enough to have an impact on her...

Thinking also about the gift, when/if to give it to her, I hoped we'll meet before so I'll have a better chance at it having a good effect. That gift is something I've thought about, it's a plush doll (i'm going to make-though I don't really know how to sew) of some funny thing we used to laugh about and I made a caricature of. Now I want to make it for real, so it's funny, belongs to the two of us, not too romantic, and unique.

 

What do you think? Does her not calling before the trip means something? How do I make her want to be with me? How do I act?

[CrapAtNC]

Hi, LittleMonkey.

 

Don't try to read meanings into anything. It doesn't work. Just ignore the fact that she didn't call.

 

You make her want to be with you by not trying to be with her.

 

And you act nonchalantly.

 

Really, you just need to relax, accept the situation, work on your confidence and self-esteem, and enjoy the situation while it lasts. Nothing else will work for you, so you may as well get on with taking care of yourself and improving yourself and learning to be happy by yourself.

[CMS]

LM, I feel like you are still coming accross a little needy, you are being too available. Let me ask you this, how do you make somebody want something? think in terms of marketing? a merchandise is way more desirable if it is a) in limited quantity or b) is highly sought out by others. So a) you can do is start not answering her call each and every time, show her that you are busy with a busy and fun life, thus make yourself more scarce and b) start showing her some competition, thus giving her the knowledge that others find you attractive and she might lose out on you.

 

You are still reading way too deep into her actions, but know this there is nothing you can say or do to influence her actions, who cares about her not calling you before the trip, she could be busy packing or hanging out with friends, you are too busy yourself to care about that, catch my drift?

 

And please. for the love of god, do not get a her a gift, you will only come accross as creepy or needy, not getting her a gift shows her that you do not put her on a pedestal, shows her that you do not seek her validation.

[ClarenceRutherford]

And please. for the love of god, do not get a her a gift, you will only come accross as creepy or needy, not getting her a gift shows her that you do not put her on a pedestal, shows her that you do not seek her validation.

Totally agree.

Have read in the getting back together posts how dumpees often feel they need to give gifts to their EXs.

BAD IDEA.

I just thought it's better that we met before the birthday so on the birthday we could be on good relations, maybe then I'll give her the gift, BUT I didn't want her to think I'm making too much of an effort/too eager.

...

Thinking also about the gift, when/if to give it to her, I hoped we'll meet before so I'll have a better chance at it having a good effect. That gift is something I've thought about, it's a plush doll (i'm going to make-though I don't really know how to sew)

Resist the urge to do something special for her or go out of your way to make her feel "special."

She dumped you. It's time to focus on you and move on, as the others recommended.

 

We all feel for you and believe me, understand what you're going through, but please save your emotions and effort for someone worthy.

[dabbledave]

A few days ago, during a moment of weakness and before finding this thread, I put together and emailed a collection of pictures of the ex and I together looking so happy and in love. I put "good times" in the subject line and that's it; no body text.

 

Since I found this thread, the ex and I have had short email exchanges related to organizing how and when I will go back home (I followed her to another continent where her company transferred her; a month later, before even the packing boxes arrived, she dumped me). In the most recent exchanges I've been happy and upbeat and really "not bovvered" by anything; faking it to a certain extent, but I do indeed feel better about things now that I've taken on a 007 attitude. I have indicated that I'm enjoying the opportunity to travel in this new continent she brought me to, that I feel that the world is my oyster again, and that she should hold off organizing my ticket back to my home country until I've really had enough travelling (her company will pay for it).

 

She never responded to the email with the pics in it until an hour ago, thus:

 

 

Hi Just saw this email today. Thanks for the pics. They were indeed our good times.

 

Enjoy your trip and the world! I am happy that you are happy again.

 

 

Now I don't believe she only just saw the email with the pics. I believe that maybe she didn't know how to respond before, believing that the email was attention-seeking neediness (which of course it was!)

 

Now (after giving it 24 hours or so) I'm tempted to reveal something about my new-found happiness, as follows:

 

 

The secret is that I have let go all of the insecurity and anger that built up during the last few months of our relationship.

 

All that insecurity and anger is what created the arsehole you dumped.

 

So now I'm back to being the good guy you once knew!

 

In an ideal world that might be reason to give "us" another try, but I totally understand if you have moved on.

 

Your last impressions of me weren't at all positive. Who wants to be engaged to a rectum?

 

 

Maybe too much too soon? Again, I'm probably answering my own question as I ask it, but any thoughts appreciated.

 

What's an appropriate cool response that hints at the door being open for reconciliation?

 

DD

[madine]

Telling her you changed will not help, right? You have to show it. Actions over words.

[Wildcars]

Okay, can someone run over what exactly is non-chalance? How do i perform this non-chalance??

[dabbledave]

Okay, can someone run over what exactly is non-chalance? How do i perform this non-chalance??

 

Hi Wildcars,

 

Basically, it's about letting go of stuff that bothers you or causes pain. And then doing your best to react to stuff said or done in a cool, even, sensible, or even humorous way that defuses a potential conflict situation both in your mind and in any of your relationships.

 

Read the thread from page 1. That's what I'm doing.

 

DD

[CrapAtNC]

Yep, too much too soon. They never want to read how you've changed; they need to see it. She'll believe you're no longer an arsehole when she sees it for herself, and she'll know you really have left all that insecurity behind when you stop acting out of self-doubt.

 

I wouldn't respond. She'll be expecting you to, because she's certain your original email was sent out of neediness. Just imagine how much her interest will be piqued when you show you really can move on—the ultimate display of security and self-assuredness. ;-)

[CrapAtNC]

Basically, it's about letting go of stuff that bothers you or causes pain. And then doing your best to react to stuff said or done in a cool, even, sensible, or even humorous way that defuses a potential conflict situation both in your mind and in any of your relationships.

 

Nice definition!

[dabbledave]

I wouldn't respond. She'll be expecting you to, because she's certain your original email was sent out of neediness. Just imagine how much her interest will be piqued when you show you really can move on—the ultimate display of security and self-assuredness. ;-)

 

Okay. Too much too soon, I agree. But I want to respond with something. Perhaps:

 

I'm also happy that you're happy, if indeed you are happy!

 

DD

[CrapAtNC]

Nope.

 

Dave, just because you need to respond is reason enough not to.

 

I promise you there will be more opportunities coming up to communicate with her. That email from her in no way requires a response. Get back to having fun traveling, will you!

[dabbledave]

Haha OK!

 

Speaking of which, I need to shut down this laptop and head out 'n about.

 

Take it easy, Crap.

 

DD

[CMS]

DD, you are doing great, and I agree with Crap, dont say you have changed, show her. Another point is that you dont need her to know what a good time you are having, leaving somethings to mystery, disappear once a while, show her you do not need her approval or validation and you are having too much of a good time to be bothered by what she thinks of you. That might take efforts but at least fake it first till you make it.

 

You are worrying too much about the techniques, like what to say to her and stuff, start believing in those points and your actions will automatically align with your words. Enjoy travelling!

[Janeiac]

File under "keeping it back together

 

What do I do? Guy blew me off again. I told him I didn't care if he wanted to go out with friends or do whatever, but that he mustn't tell me he is coming over then not show up.

Then he did it again.

 

I lost my temper and texted him we are done, don't show up, get his computer and stuff some other time He'll be back for the laptop and his motorcycle if nothing else.

 

I don't know what will happen now.

 

Probably he'll call up all nonchalant himself and try to smooth things over, apologizing, and tell me he didn't mean it. Blahblahblah. That what he always does-- says he's sorry, and I tell him don't be sorry, quit doing it. I dumped him already in the past for doing this.

I know if I dump him I'll regret it and be sad and lonely and I'll miss him but right now I'm really upset, hopping mad in fact, and feel very disrespected. I know he didn't mean it, he didn't plan it, but that's the problem.

 

What's a good way to handle this type of problem? Talking to him does no good, it only creates stress and strife.