Nonchalance is Your Friend

[Janeiac]

Let's all talk about KEEPING it back together...

 

Not that I'm self serving or anything like that...

[ClarenceRutherford]

Let's all talk about KEEPING it back together...

 

Not that I'm self serving or anything like that...

IMHO, I don't think this is gonna last.

Hope it does, Jane, and hope you do find happiness, but from what you've written about him, I don't see how he's gonna change.

He appears to be a rover....

 

One partner shouldn't have to FORCE or pressure the other to give up another love, if the two truly are in love with each other...

[Janeiac]

Clarence, he has insisted all along that this other woman was never a lover and that they are just friends. My issues was that it was inappropriate even if there was no sex. I kind of don't blame him for not wanting to give her up on my say so. To tell the truth I'd be likely to have a similar reaction. However, he concluded that I am more important, probably things went sour with her anyway (it was a screwed up situation all the way around her being in a troubled marriage) and that preserving the relationship with me is more important, so he really has stopped contact with her. I got what I wanted, and I have enourmous good feelings about him and us because of that. He's also working at being way more considerate, again exactly what I wanted and needed.

He hung out with me and my parents all week, helping me picking them up at the airport and dropping them off, carrying luggage, all that. He brought his mom to lunch with us all. It really was a family scene, he is really here.

 

Today I told him he'd made me insecure about our relationship and that I ultimately wanted him to move in with me and for us to get married and adopt if I can't get pregnant. We weren't fighting, it was actually a pretty nice conversation. He told me I shouldn't fell insecure.

 

I'm not pushing on the marriage/moving in (I never would) but I wanted it to be plainly out there. Right now things are good and we are getting along. I got upset and pushed a couple of his buttons and he endearilngly did not react, but he did express that he wasn't pleased. I like and appreciate and respect that trait in him. It's the way things were when they were good, before we drifted into a downward spiral.

 

If things don't move along this summer, and he shows me he will never commit, I am willing, ready and able to end it. Really the worst is behind me, I already know I can stand it and the world won't stop turning.

For right now, I'm happy to be rebuilding our relationship. He knows exactly what he must do, he is doing it, and we aren't fighting. I have every reason to feel optimisitc, and I'm enjoying it very much.

[Sim54]

Good for you Jane, I really hope this works out for you, but as you said yourself, you are ready and willing to leave if necessary. THat gives you enormous power, and will actually keep him close.

 

Good luck.

[Janeiac]

Yesterday Guy and I had a terrific afternoon moderate hike along a harborfront park reservation. There were a few little hills that were enough to call a workout without it being discouraging given that I'm out of shape. I feel great!

 

We had a nice evening too, sitting on the deck at his house (without him glued to the TV!) He got his baseball game on the radio in the car on the way out t the hike site. We both got what we wanted. I don't think we've had such a great time in ages. It's just what was needed.

 

This morning we had a minor tiff. I'd suggested he ignore his cell phone ocasionally, and asked about having another hike. He got very angry because he felt that I wasn't respecting his work. I told him I thought he could do a better job of scheduling.

 

I was very firm in telling him that he could take whatever position he deemed correct, and that I wasn't going to block him, I was offering a suggestion and that I would not tolerate him screaming at me and that going off on me was unacceptable. He apologized. That made be feel that he is seriously trying, because it's as it was when we first got toether (you know, when people are on their best behavior).

 

In early days with him I felt confident that whatever problem might arise (and something always does) that we'd be equipped to deal with it. To me, that it the hallmark of a solid realtionship: not that there is never a problem, but that there are haelthy and contstructive ways to deal with it.

 

When we fell apart, we we both having reactions and were rubbing each other the wrong way all the time.

 

I have to focus on constructive communication and not to appear as if I'm taking over or "filling the gaps" as Sim put it. I think I'll message him and affirm that too him.

 

I feel really good about things!

 

My puppy is happy too

[DN]

I think you would be wise not to give him unsolicited advice about his phone/work.

[Janeiac]

Thanks for that, DN. In taking responsibility for my own part, I have to keep my mouth shut sometimes and remember that if my opininion is wanted it will be asked for. I'm taking to heart the advice from CrapatNC and SIm not to try to guide or control the situation (vs sticking up for myself and setting boundaries.)

 

Guy and I just now talked on the phone. I'd called him to make sweet talk and tell him I liked how we made it up. He was busy at the moment and had to cut it short, then called me back 15 minutes later to make nice some more and just say hi, sorry for cutting it short.

 

I told him I didn't mean to overreach, it's that I was so happy about the great day we had that I was greedy for more and excited about looking forward to the hikes and camping, etc. He agreed we have fun ahead.

 

My issue wasn't with his work schedule/cell phone per se (although I do think it could be handled better that's up to him not me) but him occasionally losing his temper and screaming. He does that in the car in traffic, too, if someone cuts him off or something. I really hate it. I made it clear this morning he can say what he wants to me (even tell me to butt out) but he wasn't to yell at me, and I think he understood that.

 

I know it seems weird because I keep saying I love how he doesn't react, remains stable. Normally that is how he is, and I love that. He does have occaisional outbursts, and I hate that.

 

I worry that he is bottling things up and they escape like this, and I'm studying how to avoid pushing whatever button that makes this happen.

 

It's good

[ClarenceRutherford]

Clarence, he has insisted all along that this other woman was never a lover and that they are just friends. My issues was that it was inappropriate even if there was no sex. I kind of don't blame him for not wanting to give her up on my say so. To tell the truth I'd be likely to have a similar reaction. However, he concluded that I am more important, probably things went sour with her anyway

 

(it was a screwed up situation all the way around her being in a troubled marriage)

Didn't spot this red flag earlier.

 

Jane,

Are you sayin' he was involved with a married woman, or someone who just came out of a troubled marriage?

 

Either way, that doesn't look too good for him.

[Janeiac]

Clarence, you are right it looks terrible and that is why I dumped him over it to begin with.

 

He was inappropriately emotionally involved with a married woman who is or was separated from her husband. Even without sex it was wrong of both of them. I spoke to Guy in great detail about my feelings and opinions on this. I think he was in denial somewhat because he didn't physically cheat.

 

Whatever happenned after he and I offically broke up isn't my concern, even if I think it may have been wrong.

 

He still says he never slept with her, and that it was never really a romance with her (so therefore not cheating or wrong) and that he knows the relationship between him and me is much deeper than it ever was or could be in the future with her. That last part meant a lot to me, and I'm not going to nail him to the wall over screwing up since he knows he mishandled things. I don't want to punish him, and even if I did, it would ruin our relationship from this point forward. He knows he risked the relationship with me, and he ultimately realized he didn't want to lose it. He had to go through facing lonliness without me, and he likes his life better with me in it. He's a decent guy, not at all a player, but he isn't perfect. So what? Neither am I. In a perverse silver-lining sort of way, this incident was a good thing in that he won't expose himself to the risk of infideltiy again because he knows if he makes contact with someone else like this I will dump him pronto. For all my whining and crying on here, he never heard any regrets from me about it. I told people in real life that I was fine with the breakup, so as far as he knew, I was.

 

I made it abundantly clear from Day One back in November that the condition of him being in a relationship with me was that he stop contact with another woman BECAUSE I SAID SO and BECASUE I DO NOT LIKE it. No excuses, no arguments, no discussion. He balked at that initially (few people want to be given an ultimatum like that) but eventually went along with it, so that means something.

 

Yes, I wavered somewhat and let him slither back briefly without ending it with the friend, but in the end I found my courage and this is how it went.

 

I want to leave that conflict behind us. If there is ever a hint of a repeat, he will be gone. For now things are good, and I'm optimistic about us as I was in early days.

[CrapAtNC]

Things sound pretty good, Janeiac, and I love the compromise you guys came to about listening to the game on the radio.

 

DN gave you some good advice. Men really do not like being told how to do something, as it makes us feel . . . unmanly, which in turn makes us feel that you therefore don't look up to us the way we need you to. It's wrong that your guy loses his temper sometimes, but it will take a change of behaviour from both of you to fix that. What I sometimes get from your posts is that you fuss a lot, because you worry about things or want to make things better, but fussing can really, really take its toll on those around you—it's the number one reason why I moved away from my mother, as much as I love her.

 

But you are definitely doing something right (and so is he) and I love how you both reward each other for those positive changes. You're doing great. Keep it up.

[Janeiac]

CrapatNC, thanks for your input.

My problem isn't fussing, it's that I sometimes lack tact. I mean well, but what I'm thinking and feeling and my perspective, doesn't come out right. I come off as arrogant or pedantic.

I've often observed that a trait in a person can be positive or negative depending upon how it's expressed, perceived, or if it's useful or not in a particular situation.

Sometimes the way I am is great, sometimes not so much.

So, I practice being more sensitive and paying attention to how what I say may seem to others. I can say with confidence I'm better than I was, and I know something about what I need to keep doing.

My issue with Guy and his schedule was a little bit of ego and expectation, wanting him to make me more of a priority. I actually suggested to him that he make me an appointment, so I didn't feel thrown over or as if I was the default option.

Things are still good. We went our separate ways yesterday (we don't live together) as he had work to do and chores at home. I did a lot of work and chores today, and we connected in the afternoon. We went back and forth discussing going to his place or mine. He wound up calling me back and telling me he'd come find me at the park where I was hanging with my dog because he'd sensed I preferred that despite having agreed to go over to his place.

He's really reaching out, and that is all I can ask for now.

I'll be wanting more further down the road, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

 

Thanks again for your advice. It shows how much of a kind and caring person you are.

[CrapAtNC]

Ha! I have exactly the same problem. I mean well, but for the life of me often can't think of a way of saying something that isn't going to ruffle feathers. Being more nonchalant has helped immensely, as I simply don't feel the need to make the comments I used to.

 

Re. getting what we want (such as being a priority to our SOs), I've learned that, the less I 'demand' it, the more I get it. A great trick is to do what you seem to be doing, which is to reward even just a step towards the kind of behaviour you want (rather than asking for it or pointing out when you didn't get it). So, give him big props, or some kind of treat, or even just be immensely happy and grateful when he does make you a priority, and let it slide (genuinely nonchalantly) when he forgets. Like dogs, we can't help but repeat behaviours that bring us treats or attention . . . and we can't help but repeat behaviours that we just get admonished for.

 

Keep it up!

[Janeiac]

For sure sometimes simply shutting one's mouth is all that's needed. We don't care enough to comment on every last detail, right?

 

And yes, when Guy comes over he gets the nookie. Oops, I mean cookie

[Lavender25]

So happy for you Janeiac. There seem to be a lot of people going through the reconciliation process on this board. More so than I expected.

 

Damn, I wish I were one of them.

[Janeiac]

Lavender25, no one could be more surprised than I was about reconciling with my boyfriend. You may find yourself surprised, too.

 

The best you can do is get on with your life and be the best you possible. That may attract him back, or it may help you discover you don't want him. Either way, you win.

[RandomNobody]

Hey chaps! Hope everyone is doing OK.

 

Lavender, I too hoped to be reconciling with my ex only to reconnect with an old childhood friend. We ended up dating and four months down the line we're quite happy with each other. I kept casual contact through facebook with my Ex and you wouldn't believe how jealous she's gotten. Ha! She even badmouths my new girl to her friends, but those friends know me well and don't give a rat's arse.

 

What can I say? I really don't want her anymore, AT ALL. Recent events have shown me her true self and she is a very, VERY toxic woman. As soon as I became nonchalant, things slowly started to go wonderfully for me!

 

It has even helped me with a disease I contracted a month and a half ago (tinnitus caused by cochlear damage) which makes people literally go CRAZY about it! Me? I even sleep like a log

[Sim54]

A quick question about your tinnitus. Has it gone away, or is it still there? I have tinnitus, since a couple of years and am awaiting to results of an MRI scan to see what's going on inside.

 

Glad to hear that things have worked out for you and your new girl.

[RandomNobody]

A quick question about your tinnitus. Has it gone away, or is it still there? I have tinnitus, since a couple of years and am awaiting to results of an MRI scan to see what's going on inside.

 

Glad to hear that things have worked out for you and your new girl.

 

It's still there my friend, but I am coping just fine.

 

I need to go back to the ENT for more tests and whatnot, but I am currently recovering from a Varicella Zoster infection (chickenpox) and can't leave the house at least for a few more days

[Janeiac]

It's nice to hear your update, Ruku, and I'm glad things are going well for you, except the minor illnesses! I hope you feel better soon, although I can see you are handling it just fine and not whining. Good nonchalance!

[musicmancanada]

I'm kind of surprised at my progress.. 3/4 of the way through a book I have been reading.. Crap knows it well Codependence no more. There are parts of that book that make me so bloody angry at myself I would hate to be caught on a bad day, attempting to nonchalant my way through something that really ticked me off.

I'm in contact with the so/ex/friendzone girl I once knew, but it went bad.. really bad. After our first great encounter, she saw fit to ambush the conversation with some blasts from the past (me saying terrible things).. attack of the self esteem part XII.. and I struggle how to deal with that nonchalantly.

Since I can't 'defend' myself for the terrible things I said, and we're still 'attempting' to get over (apparently) everything she pretty much quoted me saying when we were angry at each other.. I find myself wondering if it's all worth it?

It just seems to me that every time I try and bring the olive branch into the picture, she's ready to one up the situation to keep either in control, or in her own control. The easiest way I thought to handle it for now is to simply say.. just because I said awful things at some point doesn't mean you think they were true OR even for that matter correct (logic never works but that's all I had to say)

Bottom line.. six months n/c.. a few pleasantries followed by a whole lotta nothing.. and.. she reacts by going for the jugular bitterly. I've always been a patient man, but when it comes to co-dependence, I start to realize I'm tolerating way more than I should.. so hypocrite or not I simply put..

 

"*shrug* there is no point. I tried to extend an olive branch, talk, reconnect.. you bit my head off. Two wrongs don't make a right.. I made mistakes.. and you certainly know what I said wasn't true or right.. but.. you don't like what I did, and I certainly don't need to be reminded that I don't like your jugular sniping.. so there really isn't a point to this.. I'm just trying to improve my life and reconcile and apologize.."

 

I didn't come back here and promise to change what is already done wrong. Besides, I got the help I needed.. if she's still bitter, what's the point of worrying about her? It feels kinda selfish to know that I hurt her and she's in a bitter reaction phase with it all.. but.. reality is, I have improved my life beyond that kind of behavior.. and she's feeding on the fact she has a concrete mistake she can throw at me to get a reaction.

It seems kinda pointless huh?

[Janeiac]

musicmancanada, it's not pointless to have feelings; we simply have them, and they are part of the human experience.

It may be pointless to get yourself twisted up over something you cannot change (the past.)

 

Perhaps, if you hear from this woman again, you might make a sincere and brief apology and leave it up to her to accept it, or not. After that you can let it go and move on to better and more productive uses of your energy.

[musicmancanada]

musicmancanada, it's not pointless to have feelings; we simply have them, and they are part of the human experience.

It may be pointless to get yourself twisted up over something you cannot change (the past.)

 

Perhaps, if you hear from this woman again, you might make a sincere and brief apology and leave it up to her to accept it, or not. After that you can let it go and move on to better and more productive uses of your energy.

 

Yup. That's exactly what I did. Then she wouldn't stop talking to me / trying to argue.. and I said look, simply put, I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but I'm not responsible for the way you feel.. you are.. I'm in a better place, and I'm simply offering an apology.. maybe you can accept it some day, maybe you can't.. but I'm not 'making you out to be this cruel unforgiving person' or anything else you said.. I'm offering an apology, and my job here is done.. take care.. etc etc etc.. - and the conversation ended. She will come back with the last word because she always does.. so it was nice to leave it there..

 

And yes, thank you am doing exactly that. I have a life.. and it involved catching the good ones, not dredging the bottom looking for old boots.

[CrapAtNC]

musicman, I think you handled that perfectly. She will likely find you damned attractive after the way you calmly took control of the situation.

[CrapAtNC]

Hey, who remember when nonchalance was all the rage? Good days, eh!

 

Where did everyone go? Not out enjoying themselves, I hope!

[Sim54]

Who cares?