Nonchalance is Your Friend

[VinnieMarlboro]

I am amazed at how everyone can offer great advice to others but have a hard time turning the mirror back to themselves.

 

I ..ahhh dont really want to start something here, but my nonchalance is being challenged to the nth degree!

Do I care or Dont I care? I certainly agree with your sentiments, Sugarbeet(and welcome to the family), re -what this thread CAN do for you.

And I certainly care about this thread as I owe so much to it.

 

The advice being administered on here is exaclty that - advice! It's information, it's knowledge and it is up to each individual to interpret, decipher, decode and then implement that into their daily lives for their own benefit!

 

Nonchalance is a concept - not an answer!

 

You smart enough to figure out who this rant is directed at?

 

 

I guess we will see in the rebuttal.

[Janeiac]

I thought the name was inspired by Sinbad the Sailor, who went to exotic lands, conquered all mannter of strange monsters, and became rich. Nothing bad about it!

 

Hope you are feeling better today, Sim. If you are feeling up to it at some point, I'd like to hear more about the notion of one person taking up all the space, or filling in the gaps, the way you described your ex. Can you give specific examples?

[sugarbeet]

Haha yeah- Sim I too assumed it was the sailor Sinbad who inspired your screen name. I tried to make my online persona as sunny as possible to combat the subject matter.

 

Thanks Sim. I'm doing ok. We ended couples therapy and our relationship (officially) 7 weeks ago after a year of off and on. I've been NC since. It's painful but necessary. Instead of just getting involved in something new, other people other things, i'm trying to go down and through and learn from the experience so as not to repeat- AGAIN. Become the best person I can, etc. That in and of itself is a challenge, but a worthy one, and to your last post- potentially not something I would be willing to undertake if I wasn't going through a hard time because of the break up. So while it is hard to remember- often- and yeah- I'm having a rough day today, I think you are right. The bad will lead us to a better brighter future. Hopefully more sold- grounded- fulfilling. But only if we are willing to do the work and look honestly at ourselves and learn from each other.

 

Yes this board was started based on what seems to be a simple theory, but has grown to much more- but at the core of the Non-cha theory is taking personal responsibility and doing what you can to improve yourself FOR yourself. I think it's great that folks on here keep each other honest and supported to that end.

 

Cheers!

[Sim54]

Sounds like you are grounded and well on your way!

 

Down and through is the way, and in the end, as we go, we get to discover who we really are. We don't necessarily need to be better as we're already good, but perhaps to aim for authenticity: knowing who you are, what you like and don't like, and building a strong sense of self, from which to approach life with more simplicity, and strength. My therapist said to me this morning that once you get a strong sense of yourself, and calm down all the anxiety and inner turmoil, then everything else, the world, just kind of slips into place. The world tends to reflect our inner life, and in face our significant relationships tend to reflect our inner selves too. We can look to our partner, and the state of that relationship as a guide to the state of our relationship with ourselves.

 

The Simbad thing WAS from Sinbad, but I thought after a while it sounded like i was trying to be all gansta or something. Now you've pointed out what he actually did, i kind of regret the change, but whatever, Sim54 is fine.

 

Janeiac, i'll try to talk a bit more about filling all the space up in a relationship later, i got to go for a swim now.

 

s

[Janeiac]

sugarbeet, I think your handle is cute-- it conjures sweetness

 

The relationship amusement park (circling on the merry-go-round, up-and down on the rollercoaster, side to side on the rocket, etc.) is a ring of hell Dante forgot. We keep thinking we'll make it all better, then around we go again.

 

You and your ex going into therapy is a good sign, though. Maybe some of it stuck enough. You are right in not focusing on it for the time being, though. Here in the nonchance thread we're trying to find our way to our best selves. The way out is through the funhouse, trying not to get fooled by the warped images in the crazy mirrors .

 

Eventually we'll find our way to our own gardens of paradise.

[Mark33]

My exgirlfriend, for which I suffered horribly (lost 12 Kgs, slept 1 hour per night at best, had terrible depression, etc) for more than 6 months, writes to me quite often lately, she wants to see me

and us to be friends...

 

I met her and things went fine, but then she wrote me some things which don't make any sense:

 

"You know how much I loved you. But we're too different.

I think it's better that we love somebody else not each other.

I know that after 1 or 2 years if we are together, you will break up with me

and I cannot stand to miss you and suffer." (I never broke up with her...)

 

 

I will say it here very clearly. I did NC for many months with her... it didn't help get her back.

We are just almost like 2 strangers now, from 2 people who were crazy in love with eachother.

 

I want to go the nonchalance way, what would be the best flirty, teasing, nonchalant

answers to these messages?

 

Thank you very much

[T413]

I know that after 1 or 2 years if we are together, you will break up with me

 

Can you also tell me what this week's lottery numbers will be?

 

(if she won't tell you, can you get her to tell me )

[sugarbeet]

Sim-

 

How's the casual relationship going? I kinda wish I could get involved with someone- even just to have a partner for summer fun. I'm into live music and facing going to a few shows alone next week cuz I'd rather go that way than with someone who's not into it. My ex and I loved all the same bands, so that's a big hole to fill. Anyway, I can't seem to let down my guard to let anyone close at all. I know it hasn't been a lot of time yet, but I'm also wondering if men aren't just better at casual. I've hung out with some dudes but at some point they want it to turn physical. I just can't seem to get on board with that. Seems to initimate for me- but I think guys just think about sex differently. I know there is even biological proof of that. Anyway, I feel like at least right now hanging out with new people still leads to comparisons-- which isn't fair to me or to whom I'm hanging out with. Does it just get easier with time?

 

I know part of it is taking responsibility for my thought and just not letting myself go there with comparing. That's probably the answer. Thanks for letting me talk it out here.

 

 

[Sim54]

Sugar, there is absolutely no rule or law on earth that tells you what you should or shouldn't do, regards your intimate life. Time is probably needed for you for now.

But there is nothing wrong with spending time with people. Oddly enough, often times the right person for the next stage in your growth will magically appear. Don't close yourself off to guys just because you assume they only want sex. It's not always the case. Go to the gigs, and if someone interesting approaches, the just hang out. In my opinion, you can be totally up front and blunt with a guy. If he asks for your number, you could give it to him saying 'it would be great to meet up, but I'm fresh out a relationship and am not interesting in getting close to someone right now.'

 

Try it, and see what happens, you'll sort the wheat from the chaf really quickly.

 

The girl I'm seeing now, I first met on New Years Eve, and after a date or two, i told her upfront, i was still hurting from a breakup, and dealing with some stuff and wasn't available. We had a very candid conversation, and left it at that. A few months later we reconnected, and now we're hanging out. I am super up front with her, and tell her where I'm at, and she tells me. It might be casual between us, but we are still intimate, I care for her, and am not seeing anyone else. The main thing is I am leaving the country in a few months, so we can't really go anywhere, so we see this as a summer thing only.

 

I'm still not over my ex, and I've told my current girl that.

 

For you, just take your time. Get to know yourself again. The gigs alone might be daunting, but I BET you meet someone interesting. Maybe a girl? A new friend. Someone to hang out with. Just be open, and let your guy lead you.

 

S

[sugarbeet]

You're right. And that's pretty much what i've been doing. I've always been honest to a fault and up front with people. And have been frank with guys if it progresses past a date or two.

 

Yeah, I'm looking forward to making new friends at summer events. It'll be a great growth opportunity. Thanks!

[T413]

Hi All. I could do with some help.

 

I'll see my ex for the first time in about 8 weeks tomorrow (in fact, just thirteen hours time!) and I'm not feeling at all nonchalant.

 

I had the opportunity to go to an event that I knew he'd be at on Friday and didn't go and he had the opportunity to come to an event he knew I was at tonight and he didn't turn up. I just think the atmosphere tomorrow is going to stink. I don't want to ignore him as I think that'll make things worse but I don't want to seem needy or like I'm coming onto him.

 

Things just seem to be getting worse and worse between us rather than better. How do I pull things back?

 

Any advice would much be appreciated.

[Janeiac]

What's the occaision tomorrow, Sugarbeet?

THe best thing to do is probably to act as normal as you can. Treat him like any other acquaintance and don't display that he has any effect on you. Anything else will let him know you are upset. I know that will probably be very difficult to do, but anything else will probably make you feel worse.

[T413]

It's an all day dance workshop (each to their own eh?).

 

I know that everyone in our social circle feels I'm erratic because I've avoided him. I don't feel the NC has actually heped me that much because I knew I'd have to meet him sooner or later and now I'm so nervous and am perceived as a fruit cake! What's more, I know they'll be plenty of girls there flirting with him.

 

It all seems so messy. Why can't I move on? It's been over six months. My head knows it's over, never to reignited, but my heart still has (very false) hope. How do you tell your heart to 'get real!'?

[Janeiac]

There isn't any magical cure. All you can do is keep on keeping on. At some point you will be free. You can make it harder, by hanging on, or easier, by moving on. I know it sucks. You can move on, though. Give yourself permission to feel sad, and take all the time you need, but don't give up your self-respect or dignity. There isn't any rulebook or timetable.

 

Have fun dancing. That's why you are going, right?

[T413]

Thanks Janeiac. I'll let you know how it goes.

[T413]

I've just returned from my day of dancing. It was not as bad as I thought. I wasn't exactly nonchalant because I went over to him only a few minutes after he arrived. I just wanted to clear the air in case there was any bad feeling between us. He greated me with a kiss (peck on the cheek, obviously) which I thought was a nice gesture.

 

I didn't really talk to him for the rest of the day and concentrated on having a good time with my friends, which I did. I'm giving myself a pat on the back because it might not be premium nonchalance but it's a good start for me.

 

He did flirt with one lady in particular at the event and, at first, it affected me but then I reminded myself that we are no longer together and 'not to sweat the little stuff'.

 

I will see him again tomorrow in a much more intimate location so again, I'll let you know how it goes (if you don't mind). I plan to keep it definitely upbeat and just maybe a little flirty - if he turns up - if not, I'll find someone else to flirt with!

 

I'm off to enjoy a small vodka and a biscuit and then some much needed rest.

[Janeiac]

T413, you did great! Good job! Enjoying yourself is nonchalance. Keep it up!

[Tybalt]

Coming back and reading this thread is so helpful in so many ways. The practice of nonchalance continues to change me from within. I'm a little down tonight, as I had to make a tough decision about someone I really like. He is the sports model who asked for my number in the street. We have spent a fair amount of time together over these past weeks and I've really started to fall for him. However, he is 9 years younger and has shown himself as unreliable in certain ways on a few occasions now (which could be related to his age/maturity level).

 

I accept him for who he is. I am not angry at him for letting me down, just a bit sad because I need someone I can count on in my life and that's not what he is showing me. I explained this to him calmly. Now, I need to walk away and get on with living and enjoying my life. If I see him or talk to him again, I've been clear with him, so I can certainly joke and stay away from the heavy topics, but not allow him to be with me as before while the behaviors are unaddressed.

 

It feels lousy and it does hurt because I've really developed some feelings for him. But practicing nonchalance as a kind of philosophy on life has empowered me and raised my standards. I may have emotions, but I'm not enslaved by them to accept less than what I want. And by letting go of trying to change other people or get a certain response out of them, I'm finding that I feel more in control of myself than ever. Focusing on myself and my behavior reinforces that I am responsible for my own happiness.

 

It's also interesting that I find myself more empowered to be honest. I did tell him I was sad, and that I had feelings but that I needed certain things in a relationship. I wasn't scared to speak out like I've been in the past. No game playing, just telling him like it is with a calm, non-blaming attitude.

[CrapAtNC]

These things are always sad, Tybalt, but reading your post, it's clear you have so much to smile about--for one, you called the shots on someone who is very attractive but who you have decided isn't right for you. That's incredible, right there! You are now very far along the path of happiness and relationship success. I salute you.

[musicmancanada]

Hello again everyone,

 

I recently had a really harsh reality check. I got 'dumped' by a platonic friend, a girl I've known for two years, because after spending like two weeks around her doing some renovations, she said I was 'being inappropriate' (inferring I was in hot pursuit or something.

The fact of the matter is not only, was I NOT attracted to her (Back story, she was a LOT more attractive two years ago and I hit on her.. this was settled a long time ago in the past) but I had absolutely no interest in anything to do with that sort of thing with her.. sex, romance, never even crossed my mind...

 

Then it occurred to me.. Hm.. let's take another good look, at co-dependence.

 

I had a really bad breakup a lot of years ago.. maybe twelve or thirteen years ago.. when I was at the peak of my social ladder.. right at the top of my game.. I had three friends a day that would call or want to hang out or do something.. and it was awesome to have a gang of people to hang with. Now this got me thinking.. That was one of the best relationships in my life. The ones ever since have not been so hot because when we split, she pretty much took the rolodex with her, and I had a personal tailspin into which I fell apart, drank too much, and pretty much melted down and isolated myself from friendships..

 

To this day, and ever since then, I have had this 'aura' of being overbearing, clingy per se, overly available.. and I begin to see where even in friendships, this can seriously get into other people's personal space. As I look at the correlation between that, and every relationship since, I haven't had many friends to socialize with.. partly because I took on a very transient job so everybody I know is scattered over thousands of miles, and partly because I live in a very small town now with few my age, and the cliquey culture revolves a lot around a drinking culture.. one which I don't fit in with very well.

 

Getting to the point though.. That overbearing 'clingy' persona can easily be misinterpreted by others as an 'overature' even amongst the most platonic people of the opposite sex. If you don't have much of a social life, but you long for 'someone to talk to' or 'a best friend' or simply, someone to take to a show because you won a free pair of tickets to some concert.. the fact is, they become your 'go to' guy/gal and you become 'needy'. It's not just a turn off because it might be unwanted advance.. really, does one person have any interest whatsoever in getting involved with one person's ENTIRE need for talking or sharing or activities? Not if they have a life of their own.. and when your 'sounding board' starts to pull away, it snowballs, as you start feeling like the ex took all your friends away!

 

It's not only 'just' an unattractive quality, it's a very difficult habit to spot yourself doing. People could be calling you needy or clingy or accuse you of romantic intent where you know that was not even in your mind.. but the fact is, if you call upon them too often, you're not only invading their personal space, you're becoming extremely annoying! No one person shares all of your interests, and you can easily tire people by talking about everything from soup to nuts, and frantically trying to suck up as much time as possible, because they feel like your only social contact with the outside world. No one wants that responsibility right off the bat, and few casual friendships survive an assault, unless each person, only gets little and interesting parts.. and not every last thing on your mind. You'll quickly find out if you're doing it.. your friends will either tell ya, or not answer the phone next time

 

The beauty of nonchalance, applies very much to also being popular in the first place. Your significant other will not want to be your entire source of strength. You need to dilute the amount of emotional dependence you have on one particular person, by making sure rather than just 'going for the goal' in the future, but in 'going for the team effort'. Because part of the team's job is to fill in the missing pieces, where your new lady is busy or has other things to do. If you don't have an active social life, you won't have anything interesting to talk about, and you'll resent all the time they spend socializing with their own friends, presumably if you're not both 'loners'.

 

So as you prepare yourself for the next phase, be prepared to connect with like minded people, with common interests, that fill in the gaps. The ones that you can kinda use for sounding boards instead of landing all of your life's grievances or fascinating discussions about nuclear physics, on a significant interest that will quickly grow tired of being the center of attention. I think this is a situation where a person feels out of sorts for being put on this pedestal, and you're sucking up their time always calling, and you're kind of leeching on to them for every little thing you need socially.

 

Because rather than build a great, high quality ocean of friends to spread out your interests and your opinions with (and to occupy yourself when she is doing it with her OWN friends), you can't just go looking for 'the next big cheese'. They'll find you annoying as crap and will soon tire of your needs, if you don't have others who make her slightly competitive for YOUR time, with. If your time is valuable, she's gotta know it. I know a lot of women, that get jealous of a guy having too many friends, but it's usually the same thing in reverse as well.. it's part of the picture whether it's your buddies ya bowl with or your family constantly getting involved

 

Don't be a 'friend-zilla'. It'll not only murder your chance at a good relationship.. it gives you no capability of blowing off steam socially, and diluting your problems amongst a lot of shoulders, instead of just one. People just don't like negativity, and they like less, people that call and poke their nose in when you have too much on your plate already and they 'need' your opinion on every detail. We need lots of friends to spread our indignities about ourselves around. In a nutshell, nobody likes a person around all the time that is a constant downer to be with.. but they always tell stories about the fun stuff.. so if you're nonchalant, your friendships will greatly benefit you with positive feedbacks and experiences from a multitude of sources. Your next love interest will pay attention to this VERY soon after they begin to become interested in you.

 

Besides, learning how to socialize, and become popular, is an excellent self-esteem builder. Clubs, gyms, sports teams, music and cultural events and group activities outside of bars, are huge players in this.. any activity that will put you in the same place with a bunch of people long enough for your friendly personality to become known. Follow up and be outgoing here with the intention of making friends, and find some activities to do in a group outside the class.. whatever you have to do.. but.. before you look for another relationship.. try finding at least ten people you can put on speed dial, that you can call to do something alternatively, when your love interest has plans with her own friends. I know this isn't necessarily on the nonchalance topic, but it does factor into it effecting a NATURAL progression towards it.

 

I know for a fact, that being a social misfit is only due to your natural instinct to just 'run' to your best friends, who understand you.. but it's not far wrong to say imprinting your new (lonesome) 'fill in the relationship parts' needs after a break up, on others gives you no ability to diversify stuff that people just can't take, all the time. Breakups make you feel alone, but you can do a hell of a lot worse, if you act like you're alone and lose contact with them. Do everything in your power to keep, meet, and invite new and interesting people into your life.. to keep your floods of emotions, or social needs, spread out over five or ten or however many it takes, to not overwhelm one person with it all.

[Maverick1984]

Ever since i've managed to overcome my neediness issues and focused on building a fulfilling life for myself (Which i'm still working to improve), not only have i become more attractive, but i've started to see how unattractive neediness is on the receiving end - You start to see how fickle a person's EGO can be...

 

It's funny but since losing the attachment and the need for anyone's love or approval, i've noticed people have become more dependent on me by contacting and keeping check on what i'm up to. It's a weird feeling but i almost feel a bit of discomfort now whenever a girl contacts me multiple times. Before, i would welcome it, but now it almost seems like she's distracting me from my path. My life now is in balance and have learned to focus on a single thing at a certain time. So theres time for work, time for friends, girls and family.

 

As a result, i've become a rock who knows what he wants and doesn't want - i'm no longer jaded by my emotions which used to block me from making logical decisions. Now i know what to expect from others and what not to expect.

 

I no longer view a person's external beauty as the be all and end all. I've now become a MAN - Strong, independent and secure...

 

This is where we all need to be in order to sustain healthy relationships - A secure and independent person will never encourage needy behavior or find it attractive.

[Sim54]

This is great! You write like you really understand something now, and that things have really changed for you.

I'd be interested to know how you went about making these changes. It didn't happen over night.

Did you do anything specific?

How long would you say it took you to grow?

[Maverick1984]

This is great! You write like you really understand something now, and that things have really changed for you.

I'd be interested to know how you went about making these changes. It didn't happen over night.

Did you do anything specific?

How long would you say it took you to grow?

 

Thanks Sim54,

 

It's awesome that you've said that because a few other people have asked me as well previously and have decided to write a short ebook about it and give it to you guys to read. Just haven't had the time to do it yet. Also because it's a process which i can't consciously break down at the moment, so i'm going to have a sit down one day and really think about my recent past and the journey i took to get here in order to help break it all down into learnable steps.

 

To summarize though - Sometimes, it takes one person to severely break your heart in order to make that shift. This time last year, i was severely depressed and felt like i was betrayed - I lost the person i truly loved and I never thought i could trust anyone ever again, so i kept my feelings on guard and decided to make changes to my life in order to stop being victimized.

 

So i decided to go out and do the things i really wanted to do previously but held off for a number of reasons. I made the effort to break out of my shell and start talking to strangers and opening myself up to new encounters. Doing this made me realise something - We find ourselves and our happiness by socialising and connecting with people. Coupled with learning to be independent by priorotizing my life, i began to be more conscious of myself and my feelings.

 

As a result, i was now able to see things in an entirely new perspective and am now conscious of what's happening in my interactions. I learned something very interesting - People have massive EGO's.

People tend to do things in order to cater to their own selfish ways which is mostly subconscious. This is through game playing and manipulative tactics in order to get a person to react.

 

I guess what i'm saying is, the key to mastering this is to let go of your EGO and to honestly let go of all attachment and expectations. When you begin to let go, you then start to see how ridiculous and fickle a person's ego can be.

 

I'll explain how i did this at a later date.

[Sim54]

Great reply, and I agree that losing someone you really love can be the catalyst that makes you start to make changes. I'm going through the same thing, but also seeing a psychoanalyst who is helping me massively. It IS a process, and one that takes time, but I'm getting there. I have been trying to tell myself to let go for a long time, but it's proving hard. I'm still not totally over my ex, partly as she moved on very quickly, and is now living with her new bf, who is 7 years younger than her. There is still some pain there, but it will pass I'm sure.

 

Thanks for posting this though, and I look forward to reading your ebook when you get it done.

[T413]

I saw my ex again last night and was supremely nonchalant, flirty and upbeat. It felt good.

 

My question is, how do I know if I have been friendzoned? He seems to have done some housekeeping on his life recently with regard to me, manoeuvring events and holidays so that I can't attend. However, he was flirting with me last night. He's naturally flirtatious though. Do I keep chasing this man through nonchalance because I would like to reconcile or do I accept that he's not interested?