so...Will he call this weekend?

[renaissancewoman101]

Men are weird.

 

You can't predict what turns them off. Sometimes the weirdest things turns them off.

[everythingchanges456]

what a relief i suppose that I didn't sleep with him. but confusing since he wanted me to stay and lay with him and go to sleep even when he knew we weren't going to have sex. then again, had i known up front he was only about hooking up...maybe it would have suited me to sleep with him...be crazy...since i've been single for so many months now and would have loved the companionship/attention.

[everythingchanges456]

Men are weird.

 

You can't predict what turns them off. Sometimes the weirdest things turns them off.

 

i suppose i just need to accept that I am being and was being ME and if he misinterpreted something as unattractive (to him) without knowing me ... it's his loss.

 

i'm just feeling so shocked right now.

[Batya33]

i suppose i just need to accept that I am being and was being ME and if he misinterpreted something as unattractive (to him) without knowing me ... it's his loss.

 

i'm just feeling so shocked right now.

 

That's what I don't relate to - what is shocking about hanging out with someone a few times you've known for a few weeks and the person deciding not to call again (if that is truly what this is). It sounds like you have expectations based on the cuddling and long conversations but that describes many (many) first and second dates that don't end up leading anywhere for whatever reason. when I go on the first 5 or 6 dates or more I go with the expectation that I will have a good time or great time and that I have no expectations of another date until and unless he plans a specific time and place. No matter what.

 

I once read a post that said basically "I don't want a woman to think that we are in a relationship just because I [hump] her on the couch all night." crude thing to say but it makes you think a bit ;-)

 

As far as him saying he liked how direct you were, many many men are flattered and relieved when a woman is aggressive early on but most men in my experience don't choose those women for a relationship - not because those women are "bad" or 'wrong" but most men I have known like to be the main initiator even if it means more "work" or "effort" for them - not so much that they are chasing a woman who is not reciprocating, but a little intrigue, mystery and a wee wee bit keeping a man on his toes doesn't hurt.

 

Just my humble opinion and obviously this guy and others could be an exception.

[everythingchanges456]

i wish i could see ahead in to the future and see in this week ahead if he'll call or better yet know what he's thinking.

 

i suppose if he doesn't call and i hear no word...i just feel "played" however, since we met through somewhat mutual friends...I don't know that he will leave it hanging so abruptly but who knows.......

[everythingchanges456]

at least when i was in a relationship I always knew what to expect and had someone there that loved me and vice versa....this dating stuff....you think there are great people out there....but really the grass is NOT greener.

[renaissancewoman101]

at least when i was in a relationship I always knew what to expect and had someone there that loved me and vice versa....this dating stuff....you think there are great people out there....but really the grass is NOT greener.

 

I know. You always knew what to expect. That's why I wish I had a relationship right now. The pickings seem to be slim at the moment.

[everythingchanges456]

I feel pathetic.

[renaissancewoman101]

Why? You'll be ok.

 

I know you will be.

[everythingchanges456]

i'm just wishing i did things differently somehow. i really wanted to see him....i'm not a clingy pushy woman...i'm really quite the catch...and so is he! (except for the part where he hasn't asked me out or called in three days lol)

[Batya33]

i wish i could see ahead in to the future and see in this week ahead if he'll call or better yet know what he's thinking.

 

i suppose if he doesn't call and i hear no word...i just feel "played" however, since we met through somewhat mutual friends...I don't know that he will leave it hanging so abruptly but who knows.......

 

Why is it playing to invite you over a few times and call you for a week or so? I agree that he should not have said he was going to call you at a specific time if he didn't intend to - not "playing" but also not right.

[everythingchanges456]

because it all seemed so okay the last time i saw him....and when he called the following morning thinking of me and to wake me....everything seemed like it was going sooo well

(outside of the fact he was frustrated by not having sex....after we get worked up...but he was polite about it....said he understood and respected that...he just preferred thereforeeee that we avoid getting to that point where it's difficult to turn back....he said he has no problem waiting)

 

this is why i would feel played....and additionally since he didn't call when he said he would. likely because he felt trapped...like he "had" to call..."had" to take me out instead of being in the lead himself.

[Batya33]

What you describe is so typical and not a player. At least to me, even if you have a great time on a second date, it's only a second date and anything can happen - he could have met someone else, heard from another woman he'd been dating but who hadn't called in awhile, decided on reflection that you two didn't really click, decided on reflection that he'd prefer to just be on his own, etc.

 

Sounds like you decided to get caught up and read into things a bit - happens to all of us, but doesn't make it his fault or make him a player. In fact, wasn't he honest with you about not being too keen on getting involved in a relationship?

 

The only thing I don't like which I wrote above is that he promised to call at a specific time. That's not very nice - not a player, but not nice.

 

I found when I was dating that it required no expectations and a thick skin - not because men are players or for any negative reason but that it's easy to forget it's only "two dates" when it feels like you've known him forever.

[everythingchanges456]

wouldn't it be nice (for some of us) to know what it was that someone was "turned off" by....somehow...just for curiosity sake. I understand people not clicking...but just for curiosity.

 

although, i truly thought we clicked..

[Batya33]

many people can click over a few times hanging out especially if there is sexual attraction. sure I've been very curious at times but I learned that it is so irrelevant what does it for one person but not another. as a close friend of mine used to say when she was dating a lot, "sometimes if you sneeze wrong, that's it, you're not getting asked out again ;-)"

[renaissancewoman101]

Batya, you have such a clinical, detached way of looking at issues like that. How do you manage to keep it together like that? It seems you are impervious to pain. Not being critical of you. I just am kinda in awe of you.

[everythingchanges456]

many people can click over a few times hanging out especially if there is sexual attraction. sure I've been very curious at times but I learned that it is so irrelevant what does it for one person but not another. as a close friend of mine used to say when she was dating a lot, "sometimes if you sneeze wrong, that's it, you're not getting asked out again ;-)"

 

that's funny...i suppose i sneezed wrong...hehe

[Batya33]

Maybe my typing seems that way. i think there's a huge continuum between clinical and detached on the one hand and overly emotional on the other (please, not saying that the OP is behaving in an overly emotional way - not in the least!).

 

when it came to dating someone early on I was able to keep my expectations and emotions reasonable - not detached. I had my share of times of wanting to die if I hadn't heard from Mr. Gorgeous after a second or third date - he might as well have been dating me for 5 years given the number of sarah mclachlan cds I had to listen to. But I always had enough to fall back on - my self confidence, friends, family, career, interests, and sarah m. I usually almost always had another guy waiting to take me on a first, second or third date which was nicely distracting. also helped that I don't get too sexual early on because I know I get overly attached that way. Not everyone does, I know.

 

Also, I have been on so many many first and second dates in my life that there was a relatively small percentage where I was over the moon that early on. when someone did knock my socks off I knew it was time to line up another date with someone else to distract me, lol.

[everythingchanges456]

i suppose i need to figure out a way to get out there and meet other people....i mostly work, sit home or spend time with my friends in small groups

[everythingchanges456]

just sad. i really liked him...i feel pathetic being sad but i am.

 

so if he doesn't call...i won't call him...as I do feel I have already made it ABUNDANTLY clear that I'm interested.

 

if he does call...i will answer/respond in a polite and cheerful way making no reference to being completely disappointed by not hearing from him but I will make no further reference to wanting to get together.

[Batya33]

just sad. i really liked him...i feel pathetic being sad but i am.

 

so if he doesn't call...i won't call him...as I do feel I have already made it ABUNDANTLY clear that I'm interested.

 

if he does call...i will answer/respond in a polite and cheerful way making no reference to being completely disappointed by not hearing from him but I will make no further reference to wanting to get together.

 

Sounds like a plan. If it helps, I met serious/long term boyfriends through friends and at work and one through a personal ad in the 1980s. I met short term boyfriends or dating relationships through on line sites, at religious retreats (no I am not religious, lol), through set ups, at parties, etc.

 

Not pathetic to be sad - understandably you're a little disappointed. But, like I wrote, it's because you wanted to have these great evenings where you chose to be vulnerable with someone you didn't know well - the benefit being the excitement, the chemistry, etc. then there's the downside i know which is probably harder than if you had held back some. But holding back has its disadvantages as well.

[Miss M]

Wow, suddenly a very busy thread...

I guess dating really requires that you not get attached to someone.

 

But what happens when you start dating and it seems to turn allright, like after a few months, and they break up all of a sudden. You can't protect your heart from that.

 

I dont know how people can just date and date and go through breakup after breakup and then still be fine. I would think after a while, you'd get jaded.

I agree you can't protect your heart from that. And I also don't understand how some people can perpetually date. My idea of dating is to find a lifetime mate and then stop dating. When dating goes on too long I find it completely emotionally exhausting, and then after a while I need a break, (but if I had found the right guy that "break" would have happened naturally by getting out of dating and into a relationship, right?). In the last 15 years I've dated for a grand total of 6 months. In my younger years I had already dated much more than I ever wanted to, so I haven't felt like I missed anything except a bunch of confusion and headache.... oh, and also a relationship, but that's much different than dating.

 

ugh!! i like this man you know when you start thinking...what could i have done differently? what did i do wrong?

Sometimes it concerns me when you presume you did something wrong. Do you ever consider that he's the one who did something wrong?

 

i think i could have done it differently....too eager even though i truly made an effort NOT to be...only called him when returning his call, etc.

Again, you really did your best at the time, you used your best skills, judgments, and emotions to make the best decisions you knew how, so don't second-guess now. And that's the way I'm different. When a guy loses interest in me, I never-ever think it's because of anything I did wrong. And I never try to think of how I should have done something differently, because I always know I did my best. He simply decided I wasn't what he wanted. I've done that to plenty of guys too, decided he wasn't suitable for me, so I accept when they decide that way about me. Also, I've had plenty of Mr. Wrongs and don't want another one, so I usually presume he just saved me a lot of headache and heartache by moving on.

 

the only things i did that seemed "aggressive" or straight forward is say...that first night that i wanted to see him to which he remarked that he loved how direct and straight forward i was....and then the comment last friday about wanting him to take me out and finally, asking him if he'd call me later on saturday and when he called later asking when i'd see him again. to which he replied ummm i don't know...i'll call you monday afternoon when i get back

 

othere than that...i was pretty laid back.

It seemed he was suggesting that you should be more aggressive, not less. If he thought you were too aggressive, he was sending mixed signals.

 

 

i suppose if he doesn't call and i hear no word...i just feel "played" however, since we met through somewhat mutual friends...I don't know that he will leave it hanging so abruptly but who knows.......

This is where I disagree with Batya again. I think he was a player because he was intentionally ambivalent, sending you mixed signals, pulling on your emotions, trying to manipulate your behavior so you'd be and act like what he wanted, instead of just investigating to see if you were a good match for him and vice versa. From your descriptions of his comments I really do see a lot of player-ish tendencies in him.

 

at least when i was in a relationship I always knew what to expect and had someone there that loved me and vice versa....this dating stuff....you think there are great people out there....but really the grass is NOT greener.

Most of the men you meet will not be the right ones for you. The right ones are a very teeny-tiny percentage.

 

Batya, you have such a clinical, detached way of looking at issues like that. How do you manage to keep it together like that? It seems you are impervious to pain. Not being critical of you. I just am kinda in awe of you.

I totally agree that batya comes off as very clinical. But I'm not awed by it, and I don't wish to duplicate it in my own life either.

[Batya33]

It's funny how text can be misinterpreted. Often text can appear cold. I too would find someone clinical and detached to be pretty darn sad. Luckily that's not me. Not sure where being reasonably confident and keeping expectations reasonable in the beginning of a dating relationship is "detached" - what it does do is prevent a lot of the neediness/clinginess I see in early dating (both on men and women's parts) and that lead, for me, to fulfilling long term relationships since I was able to keep seeing my friends, keeping my life going, while integrating him into my life at a reasonable pace.

 

I most definitely risk my heart and emotions but, no, I care for myself too much to let myself be completely vulnerable, open and attached to someone I met a week ago or two weeks ago - and I know that's a good way to scare people off (unless they are needy or in love with love or desperate). Obviously there are exceptions but for the most part I don't relate to the rush to tell all/bare all/give up your life for someone you just met and especially before you've decided to be exclusive (and especially, as in the OP's case where it's just a hang out/hook up situation.

 

Obviously there's a thrill to it, an excitement but i am there far more for the slow fires burnning that last longer than the red hot spark that often burns out way too soon and often reflects people who are far more into the cloud nine/red hot sparks/honeymoon of the beginning than the long term.

 

As for the guy the OP met, I don't think he sent any mixed signals. He never asked her out on a proper date - nothing clearer to me than the message "I am not interested in dating you (at least at this time)," only called her last minute and typically late in the evening - yet another clear signal that he couldn't be bothered to make advance plans or see her during a meal time, only invited her to his house or a hot tub - a clear signal that he didn't want to take her out, and that he wanted to hook up and/or have sex; he told her that he was at the very best very ambivalent about wanting a relationship but yet would have been comfortable having sex.

 

To me that overwhelmingly points to a man who is not interested in dating the woman but wants a casual fling (obviously that could change as he got to know her better but typically if it starts out that way, well...). His behavior is not wrong at all - it was completely consistent with wanting a casual fling, he is entitled to want that and to pursue that just as she is entitled to want more which she told him at some point. Nothing mixed about that other than she wanted one thing and he wanted another.

 

She gave him mixed signals in my opinion if anyone did. She agreed to go to his house three times last minute even though she wanted him to ask her on a date. She told him she wanted him to ask her on a date the third time he asked her to hang out and hook up but not before - so that was a good way to clear up the mixed signals to that point. I don't think it was mixed if she only wanted to hang out and hook up - at times it seemed the OP was content with that - and thereforeeee that's not a "mixed" signal but, perhaps I read a lot of these posts incorrectly, but it seemed to me there was a whole lot of ambivalence on her part as far as comfort level with hanging out and hooking up.

 

I don't think it's fair for one person to accept hang out/hook up invitations with enthusiasm, allow herself or himself to get attached but then if the other person doesn't step up to the plate and ask for a real date all of a sudden that person is a "player." If a player is someone who has casual flings, ever with someone else who wanted a casual fling, then I have been a player too but that's not my definition at all. Also in this case if he were a player he likely would have pushed further for sex and/or lied to get her to do it (he would have said he wanted a relationship when he didn't). Once he realized she wanted more, he stopped calling. Is there a link between those two events - who knows - I kind of think so and I think it's great that she was clear so that any further mixed signals were prevented.

 

He was wrong to tell her he would call and then not call when he said he would. But that doesn't make him a player nor is that a mixed signal - it's a clear signal to me that the OP can do better since she and this man want very different things. Good luck!

 

Just to be clear - I am simply responding to Miss M's thoughtful post about why this guy is a player in her opinion. I don't think what the OP did was wrong here - she took a risk because she saw the benefits - she had two lovely evenings with this guy including long lovely conversations and she just chose to get her hopes up that it would become a dating/relationship situation.

 

Many many men have said to me they will call me and haven't - it's always disappointing but it's happened enough that, if it happens in the beginning, usually not devastating. When it has been it was hard but luckily it passed relatively fast because I didn't know the guy well in the first place. I hope it is like that for you. I also hope you take from this that you may not be cut out for a casual fling and that it's time to get out there and meet people (as you mentioned in a previous post). I would not advise being clinical or detached (ick) but I would advise letting someone into your life at a reasonable pace and only when his actions are consistent with a sincere interest in dating you unless you decide you are perfectly content to casually hang out with someone (nothing wrong with that either).

[ghost69]

he will call you later this week i bet.

[Miss M]

Just to note, saying a person "comes off as very clinical" is very different than saying she is clinical.

 

I think players (whether intentional or unintentional) are those who lie, manipulate, deceive, use pretense, and attempt to hook the emotions of another person for his own use. I also think a player is someone who exploits, encourages and attempts to increase another person's state of confusion in order to cause her to misread and misinterpret what's actually happening. In my definition, he seems to fit.

 

If he had said outright that he's not looking for a relationship, only sex, and if he had not added any emotional "hooks" beyond that simple statement (and yes, there are rare men who do just that), I wouldn't classify him as a player. And I thought he was a player from very early-on, not just when he didn't step up to ask her for a date.

 

I agree that ETC also gave him mixed signals, but I certainly don't think she was the only one doing that. And I definitely do NOT agree that he wasn't also giving mixed signals himself. He gave plenty of mixed AND false signals. In fact I think he was giving mixed signals from the moment he met her.

 

I realize and accept we're going to continue to have our different opinions about this, (and that's fine, really), but I just thought I'd clarify my idea of player so it's not presumed that I think any man who's not interested in a long-term relationship, or any man who doesn't ask for a date is a player, because that's not what I was trying to say either.