so...Will he call this weekend?

[Batya33]

Take comfort in the common thread here (includes at least me, Miss M and Its All Grand) - we have all been there and done that and at least I cannot promise that I would never be there again (it's been a long time, but still).

 

Miss M summed it up neatly with (can I paraphrase?) "right, gaze into his eyes and still keep an open mind/objectivity." One time when I was in a similar situation I was over the moon - in allcaps. The signs (in that case, he just wanted a quick fling) were there I would say at the latest by date two with the casual invitation to stay over on date three if our "I'm making you dinner at my house for date three" went further than my being dessert, lol. Took me about 7 weeks, many many tears, overanalysis, auditioning to be his girlfriend, before I was willing to say bye bye. Bye bye became hello again the next year for a shorter time (see, I learned ;-)) and these days he cheats on his spouse. Whew, dodged that bullet.

 

Obviously there are exceptions - there are the men who start out just wanting a hook up, who are clear about that and lo and behold fall head over heels and start wanting a wife and baby carriage. It happens but it's very rare.

[Miss M]

Batya, I get your point, and I agree with lots of what you say, we've all been there and gotten burned, so we now have this great hindsight and insight. And I totally agree that I might also make mistakes again, because being in the middle of it is VERY different than sitting on the sides advising about it. And I even think it's great that you're revealing your own past vulnerabilities because I think that's helpful as well in giving ETC good perspective. But in this case I disagree with the whole idea of "a common thread" or this notion of "if 3 people say the same it must be true." You also do that a lot when you give statistics of all those (100s?) who also think/act/do just like you, and I don't agree with that overall premise because 1)it seems to be a too-pushy way to bolster your point of view (as if that's for ETC's benefit?), 2)it seems to be an effort to validate yourself to yourself (which is irrelevant here), and 3)in the end it doesn't matter one whit what other people do on the other side of the country when you're the one trying to make a personal decision in your own life.

 

I do my own thing. I'm a loner, and I often swim against the current. I often don't see any others who do what I do. And I have to search within myself and remain true to my own inner compass and inner convictions that are not based on the behavior of others. I find that keeping solid integrity with myself is much more valuable towards helping me make the right decisions in my life. I think a variety of different voices in giving advice are valuable because ETC can then have different takes on the same issue, hearing it presented in different ways, NOT because we're all saying the same thing.

 

In the end ETC has to make her own decision, and she needs to hear her own voice, not ours. I've been occasionally trying to insert that idea because I also know how important that component is in the final hour. I think it matters less that we agree, and it matters more that we offer supportive, nurturing, and strengthening advice to those who request it. When it's the right advice (and the right time) for the person receiving it, she will hear it and take it on board no matter how many others are agreeing with it, or not.

 

Okay, just another 2 cents worth.

[everythingchanges456]

Thank you all very much for your time and thoughful advice....It does so much for me.

 

At this point, I will carefully see what happens. I'll keep you posted. I think it is difficult absolutely when you're in the center of it to follow "rules" because you're wrapped up and perhaps clouded too at times.

 

It's 715pm no call yet and I haven't called him yet either. I think he'll call tonight...he does think I work late since I did last week...but then again, another part of me thinks...I may have done something to show him we were not capatible...though, it would be just a inclination at this point since he doesn't know me well enough to determine that yet.

 

Anyway...moving forward with my eyes as wide open as I can....

[Batya33]

Yes, I totally agree that being smitten makes it harder to step back and be objective about your personal standards. It also helps to have supportive friends and to keep reminding yourself of the goal and the risks that come with being overly available to someone new in your life.

[Batya33]

Thanks Miss M for your comments. I am all for being unconventional, creative, following your own inner compass. but as ETC remarked, following that inner compass becomes near impossible when you're smitten. I am not saying that "since everyone does it this way it has to be right" - just pointing out that in my personal experience and hundreds of others who I know and know of the overhwelming majority of situations like ETC do not have relationship potential. I also said that of course there were exceptions. To me there is no right or wrong - there are risks and benefits to my approach, her approach, every approach in between.

 

what I meant by the common thread was that we've all been smitten and doubted our own behaviors in reaction to being smitten.

[renaissancewoman101]

I guess dating really requires that you not get attached to someone.

 

But what happens when you start dating and it seems to turn allright, like after a few months, and they break up all of a sudden. You can't protect your heart from that.

 

I dont know how people can just date and date and go through breakup after breakup and then still be fine. I would think after a while, you'd get jaded.

[Batya33]

If you are a reasonably confident person with a fulfilling life the attachment is in perspective depending on the length of time you've been dating, and his actions (or hers), etc. I've had many short term relationships end and never got jaded or bitter probably because I kept my life going, had reasonable expectations and (for me personally) waiting for sex kept my perspective and expectations healthy.

[everythingchanges456]

seeing as though he has YET to call and it's 8pm...i'm starting to feel like i shouldn't answer to prove a point that i'm not sitting by the phone hoping ... although i also don't want him to take it as a game.

[renaissancewoman101]

If he calls, answer. Don't be like him and play games. It doesn't make for good things.

[everythingchanges456]

lol it may not even be an issue since he hasn't called....somehow by saying i wanted him to take me to dinner or "out" somewhere when i saw him friday and by saying "when will i see you again" on saturday when he called....i must have scared him away

 

so you think whenever he calls ... just answer.

[Batya33]

I often do not answer the phone if someone who was supposed to call me doesn't call when he or she is supposed to. I figure, if she/he couldn't be reliable, I have better things to do than run to the phone if the person calls. One good guideline is - since he would be calling more than a day late, wait at least a day to return the call unless in his message he leaves a sincere apology.

[renaissancewoman101]

lol it may not even be an issue since he hasn't called....somehow by saying i wanted him to take me to dinner or "out" somewhere when i saw him friday and by saying "when will i see you again" on saturday when he called....i must have scared him away

 

so you think whenever he calls ... just answer.

 

I dunno, I don't usually play telephone games like that.

[everythingchanges456]

ugh!! i like this man you know when you start thinking...what could i have done differently? what did i do wrong?

[Batya33]

I can relate but it's important to realize especially in this case what your goal was. If your goal was to keep seeing him no matter what - whether or not he asked you out -- then yes you did the wrong thing by suggesting that he take you on a date. But of course you asked him that because at the time you weren't willing to settle for the hang out arrangement. So you were willing to risk that if he didn't want to take you on a date, you'd prefer not to see him at all. It's fine if you regret that decision now of course but it doesn't sound like you do and thereforeeee you did nothing wrong.

 

Having said that, here is what I think is happening - much simpler. He enjoys the arrangement where he calls you when he feels like seeing you right then. There may be a slight reluctance to call because you've suggested that you're not thrilled with that arrangement but for the most part, he figures you'll probably say yes.

 

He's indicated he doesn't want the obligations of a dating relationship which include calling reliably and calling in advance. My guess is you will hear from him again within the week when he wants to get together that night. last week was more about the "pursuit" but now that he knows (or thinks he knows) you are definitely interested, mostly open to hanging out whenever he has free time he doesn't have to do the full court press of calling all the time.

 

My other guess is that he went away with someone he is dating or pursuing and perhaps things developed. That's a typical risk whenever you first meet someone.

[everythingchanges456]

again UGH good thing i have a dog he gives me undivided attention and is willing to go out ANYTIME lol

[Batya33]

I know you and I disagreed on this situation but just wanted to say that you sound like one spunky smart lady. Your dog, among many others I am sure ;-) are lucky to have you!

[everythingchanges456]

Thank you! I really enjoy our back and forth of opinions...it's good for me and helpful!!

He's indicated he doesn't want the obligations of a dating relationship which include calling reliably and calling in advance. My guess is you will hear from him again within the week when he wants to get together that night. last week was more about the "pursuit" but now that he knows (or thinks he knows) you are definitely interested, mostly open to hanging out whenever he has free time he doesn't have to do the full court press of calling all the time.

 

My other guess is that he went away with someone he is dating or pursuing and perhaps things developed. That's a typical risk whenever you first meet someone.

 

I think he might call again, too. I hate that I have to step out of being "me" at that point and decline unless it's a future "date." I know that it's what I have to do though if it happens. I can't settle for someone who isn't interested in making me feel "special" or that he IS interested.

 

As for the being away with another woman...he really loves his guys boating trips so I'm thinking it's the truth but who knows....

[Batya33]

Weirdly, I actually can see that (meaning, that it was a guys' trip - didn't realize it was a group boating trip) - sounds completely plausible.

 

also, as you know I am sure, many many dating things end after a few dates and often there's no call, just a disappearance because it's been such a short time.

[renaissancewoman101]

that's the sad thing about dating, and even relationships. You really never know what can happen.

[everythingchanges456]

i think i could have done it differently....too eager even though i truly made an effort NOT to be...only called him when returning his call, etc.

[renaissancewoman101]

why is it when you are too eager, it is always the "kiss of death" in a relationship?

[Batya33]

Because overeager is overwhelming or suffocating to most people especially if it's someone you don't know well. It is to me.

[everythingchanges456]

the only things i did that seemed "aggressive" or straight forward is say...that first night that i wanted to see him to which he remarked that he loved how direct and straight forward i was....and then the comment last friday about wanting him to take me out and finally, asking him if he'd call me later on saturday and when he called later asking when i'd see him again. to which he replied ummm i don't know...i'll call you monday afternoon when i get back

 

othere than that...i was pretty laid back.

[everythingchanges456]

i intentionally tried to be FINE with not hearing for a week the first week then he called saturday not sunday then called mon tues and wed and not thursday and most of friday and i was cool about it and happy each time!

[Batya33]

i think i could have done it differently....too eager even though i truly made an effort NOT to be...only called him when returning his call, etc.

 

But, look at it this way - you had two lovely and memorable evenings and several interesting phone calls- and that's just in the "worst case" scenario if you don't hear from him.