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Miss M

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Everything posted by Miss M

  1. I disagree. I think there's a lot of overlap, but I acknowledge that others have a different opinion about that. For clarity I intentionally put both terms together because I'm indeed both shy and introverted, and often I refer to those two traits jointly, (especially when I'm talking about myself). Did you notice the book I mentioned earlier in the thread, The Introvert Advantage by Marti Olsen Laney?... Here's other detailed posts I wrote about the book almost two years ago... and ...so, it's ironic now that you're explaining the aspects of introversion to me.
  2. ^ That's a good point. I'm "old" and my shyness/introversion got MUCH more intense as I got older. But in my case it was also tied into a lot of emotional issues that I've been working on in therapy. Yeah, sometimes I really do miss some of those more extroverted aspects of myself.
  3. I've been trying to figure out shy guys, and this helps a lot, thanks. ******* I tend to see shyness as overlapping with introversion (I could be wrong about that?). I don't see introversion/shyness as anything to be overcome. I have mostly strong shy/introverted aspects, 80-90%, (and occasionally extroverted), but I don't view shyness as a problem. I'm really very content with my shyness. Often it is the not-shy people think who give shy people the feeling we need to change. I started accepting it better after I read the book The Introvert Advantage by Marti Olsen Laney. By the way, I've never rejected shy guys just because they were shy, but I probably didn't know they were interested in me, because shyness often looks and feels just like rejection when viewed from the outside. When compared with the guys who are expressing an interest, a shy guy really seems to be saying he's definitely NOT interested.
  4. So true, Nancy, so true.... LOL ... excellent V! And I still don't know how Dako got that name. I must have missed that one. These discussions of pet names reminds me of when I was a senior in high school, and somehow we spontaneously got on a kick where we called any appealing/attractive/desirable boy(man) a "pie." Then there would be a prolonged philosophical discussion among us females about the type of "pie" a certain boy(man) was. The choices: sweetie pie, honey pie, sugar pie, cutie pie, (and any other kind of pie we could come up with). Sometimes a guy could be more than one kind of "pie" at once, or maybe even ALL of them at once. Sometimes we agreed, and sometimes we didn't. Sometimes someone thought he was a cutie pie, while another was absolutely sure he was really more of a sweetie pie. And sometimes there was a concensus. After a while we started looking for any excuse to discuss the types of "pies" we saw around us. When we first started, the guys mostly rolled their eyes, and thought we were just being dumb. But after a while they felt quite proud of themselves to be classified as a "pie." Yeah, once they understood the context, the affection, the adoration, they became converts. Even now, every once in a while I'll suddenly blurt it out, "OMG would you just look at that PIE!!! Of course nowadays nobody ever knows what I'm talking about until I explain it.
  5. I just remembered an odd one. I have an 83 year-old best friend (I've known him all my life) and for 20 years he's been calling me "chicken." Yes, he calls me "chicken" and I absolutely lovelovelove it, because it makes me feel special and loved. Now, taken out of context "chicken" might not sound okay, but every time he says it, it's literally dripping with warm affection and deep adoration (he also considers me his best friend in the whole world). Sometimes I've wondered how I know he means it affectionately, and why I'm not offended, but there's a subtle intention that's very clear whenever he says it. It really depends on the intentions of the person calling me the pet name, because the same name said with a hostile intention would get a completely different reaction from me.
  6. Sometimes I've rejected someone based on personality in even much less time than 45 seconds. Sometimes the personality is so ugly, or horrible, or blah, it happens in a split second... and sometimes he doesn't even register on the radar screen at all.
  7. Yo Charley, I might start stalking you myself, 'cause you really crack me up! Yeah, I'm kinda goofy like that... and yes, I got your meaning, wasn't offended. PS - the tie in the soup... really funny that one
  8. This is exactly what I was thinking when I read your comments about what 90% of women think and feel, that just because you say/write something, that doesn't mean what you say/write is true. In other words, that "reporting bias" theory works the same on all sides. Angry? And here's another example of you making up something that isn't really true. Again, you obviously can't say how someone else feels because you're not a mind-reader, so you should just stick to saying how YOU feel.
  9. I know the media influences us, but when it comes to the type of guy that excites and attracts me, a "magazine" simply doesn't have that much sway over my feelings towards a guy. I mean, best girlfriends can't even convince each other to like the same type of guys (and usually don't try). We often go in completely different directions than our friends, so a magazine certainly rates much lower than a best friend in influencing what I find appealing. Sometimes I find something inexplicably attractive about a guy, but I immediately know no one else will be able to get it except a select few. In fact I did that with a Cardinal baseball player over 20 years ago, drooled and swooned over him everytime I saw him on TV, but I didn't tell anyone because I knew they would think I was nuts. Then I later heard he had a fan club of women who drooled and swooned over him like idiots. He didn't understand, and neither did the media, but I did. He was inarguably "ugly" but there was just something about him that did it for me (and also for the women in his fan club).
  10. Okay, this thing about the "survey" and "reporting bias" started because CaptainPlanet thought it was reasonable to advise other posters to disregard what the women in this thread were saying about our feelings. So what if we just apply that "reporting bias" theory to CaptainPlanet's dismissal of women, and then call it even? 8)
  11. Winter Light, I'm so sorry you're going through so much difficulty. But darling, what you're describing are the classic dynamics and symptoms and feelings of something that counselors and therapists call "trauma bonding." It is a situation where you perceive the source of your emotional pain as also being the place to get relief from your pain. That means when someone hurts you, you feel even MORE attracted and attached to him, because your emotional conditioning perceives him as being your source of relief from the pain he has caused. When someone hurts you, abandons you, betrays you, neglects you, accuses you, criticizes you, you feel even more attracted to him, because you feel that getting him to stop hurting you will somehow ease your pain. Another very big part of the problem is that you feel enormously and constantly invalidated, so you think if you can convince him to validate you that will make you feel better. You've lost the ability to validate yourself. So instead of getting away from the emotional abuse (like a normal person), your feeling of invalidation makes you feel strongly drawn towards it, addicted to it, codependent on it. And you desperately need him to admit he's wrong before you can allow yourself to believe it and feel and accept it for yourself. Yet another aspect is that sometimes you even take over the role of criticizing yourself on his behalf, willingly taking ownership for how you've supposedly mistreated him, indicting yourself with a verdict of "guilty as charged" when you perceive yourself as acting irrationally (although you're actually responding exactly as you should during those times). And you start to perceive him as the innocent victim while seeing yourself as the abuser of him. You start confessing all the ways you've mistreated him, self-accusing, pleading guilty, and magnifying your "wrong" behavior even to yourself, all while minimizing, excusing, and rationalizing the ways he has abused you. When you have angry outbursts, please try to stop perceiving that as proof that you're wrong, because it's really the evidence that you're still able to respond appropriately to a bad situation. Your anger is a healthy sign. You're angry because you're able to still recognize that you're being mistreated, not because you're doing anything wrong. I hope your therapist understands what's really happening to you, because this is a confusing thing to guide a person through during therapy. And all therapists aren't trained to handle this particular kind of complicated problem. Also I hope you can realize that the things you crave from him aren't really the things that will help you in the end. If he ever gives you what you want, it will only "hook" you even more, just like a junkie. You have to reshape the way you think of your emotional cravings so you come to understand that you shouldn't seek those kinds of things from him. I'd also suggest that you should consciously look for every opportunity to let yourself off the hook, to help you break free of the pattern of self-blame. And you need to practice diligently regarding yourself in a compassionate and forgiving way so you can regain proper healthy perspective. And you need to realize that your anger at him is logical and valid and just, and yes, even healthy. If you're interested in reading about this so you can understand what's been happening, I'd recommend some books that were key in helping me get good perspective again. The Betrayal Bond: Breaking free of exploitative relationships by Patrick J. Carnes The Verbally Abusive Relationship: How To Recognize It And How To Respond by Patricia Evans Verbal Abuse Survivors Speak Out: On relatonship and recovery by Patricia Evans Controlling People: How to recognize, understand, and deal with people who try to control you by Patricia Evans Why Does He Do That?: Inside the minds of angry and controlling men by Lundy Bancroft The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists: Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family by Eleanor Payson You've got to stop getting sucked into the games he's playing, stop taking the bait, stop looking to him for emotional validation, stop hoping he will offer you relief from the pain, stop listening to him dangle non-existent carrots while he's also blaming you for not being worthy of what he "almost" did for you. And no, you don't sound idiotic at all, at least not to me, because I've been there, and I totally know just how you feel. Yes, keep writing because it seems to help you. And also journal. I'll be here to help in any way I can.
  12. Winter Light, the more you write, the more your story sounds VERY familiar. Wow, I'm stunned at our similarities, and I just want to let you know someone really understands how you feel. I wish you luck in getting free of this guy. BTW I'm also in therapy, for a very long time, learning how not to ever get caught in this type of trap again. I think therapy is very wise, and I wish you the best with that. You may already know this but he has also painted YOU into a very tough corner, a lot of double-binds where no matter what you do it's still somehow WRONG. He mistreats you, neglects you, and then finds endless ways to make you wrong for not liking the bad treatment. And he also plays the victim with you, making you the villainess for treating him badly, but he's really the one treating you badly. He's also creating emotional addictions in you, which is also very bad. Yes, this all very familiar to me, and this is seriously toxic to your emotions, because he's teaching you how to compulsively criticize yourself while he mistreats and neglects you. After reading your last post, I read the title again "am I too controlling or is he inconsiderate?" ...geez. One of the signs that you're in a very bad toxic relationship is when you're doing all the one-sided giving, but still questioning yourself in this way. No sweetheart, you are NOT too controlling (at least not in the way you thought). And yes he is totally inconsiderate (among other things Good luck on your healing journey.
  13. Well SW, lots of thoughts come about how to respond, but it might be going too far off topic? But just briefly, from your description I suspect she thought you were interested in her, and she was interested in you, and probably wondered why you weren't picking up on all her hints. Or maybe she just thought you loss interest, or that you were playing games? All that's just a guess, but those were my first thoughts. I could also tell you why I think she might have read it as rejection, (and also why she'd choose you over all the others) but probably better in a PM, or start another thread so we don't go even more off topic.
  14. Okay, sorry, I was reading too much into what you wrote. Some guys here had written that if a girl is hot that's proof she wouldn't be interested in an average/ugly guy. But if that's not what you meant, then I'll save that "point" for someone else. But why does a girl who's a "7" do this to you? What's the correlation and logical explanation for your melt-down. I mean, if she's a "1-2" you don't have this problem, right? (and this is weird for me to rate women like this, geez But I do understand the "melt-down" you're describing, because I can be relaxed, charming and outgoing when I'm not interested in a guy. But if I find him attractive, well I also freeze, or else turn into a bumbling/stumbling idiot. So yeah, I do get what you're saying. So what happens when both sides are simultaneously going into the same kinda freeze mode? Maybe something to think about? Hey, this is exactly how a lot of those "hot" girls also feel. She might look good on the outside, but there is often a lot of negative commentary happening on the inside. LOL, Okay! (And you're cool too!) But to be honest, I promised a date to your fellow New Yorker, Kyoshiro Ogari... that I'd look him up if I ever get to New York. But gosh, you both are much too young... or I'm much too old... or sumpin... But incidentally, I passed a few pairs of grungy workboots today, a handful of guys who were doing some work on a house, (tuckpointing, plumbing, landscaping) and we exchanged a little small-talk. Yeah, I had to laugh at the coincidence.
  15. Wowie Grokker, I agree with Stinkweed, that's an outstanding post, (and not just because you paid me such a nice compliment [VERY BIG GRIN]). Yes, those are all very excellent points you've made. Okay, now YOU just made MY day. ['NOTHER VERY BIG GRIN] ... Aw, I was walking around the mall today, wondering why I've had such rotten luck with men, so many previous encounters with "Mr. Wrong"... and I was trying not to be down on myself, but still thinking the "failures" must be a negative reflection of me. [sob, sniff] So yeah, your kind comments help a lot. Thanks. (Incidentally, I don't think I really look like a "chihuahua with glasses," but dang, I wouldn't mind so much if I did look adorable in that same quirky-perky way. [wink] And Stinkweed, I'll say it again... many girls choose guys based on what THEY like in a guy, not how they themselves look. For example, I look girly and soft, prissy, but I often drool over rough-looking burly guys with beards and scruffy work boots. And although I tend to not see myself accurately, I'm pretty sure I don't look scruffy, and certainly not bearded. And gosh, I sure don't want a prettied-up or "girly" guy who looks like me.... (but hey, I've also known some women who do like that sort of guy Besides, you seem to have a really nice personality, so maybe your nice looks combined with your nice personality is very appealing to her? Also consider, attractive women have LOTS and LOTS of unpleasant and tiresome encounters with jerks. So a different kind of guy really stands out from the crowd. Heck, she just might be "staring and smiling" because she considers YOU the prize.
  16. Winter Light, some of the most alarming things you've written indicate that hanging around with someone who treats you so badly, while listening to his endless excuses and cop-outs and accusations, all of that is causing you to regard yourself with such a critical lens that you don't really deserve. I think you've put up with way too much for way too long. Yes, I'd also suggest that you get away from him ASAP, because what you're describing is emotionally toxic, and very harmful. And please do spend some time accepting and reinforcing your own perspective again... and also limit the time you spend around people who reinforce and encourage your own self-criticism. Besides getting away from him, you're in need of a lot of healing, and a few good doses of healthy self-acceptance. It might take some time to make a good readjustment in having a healthy regard for yourself. Good luck.
  17. Stinkweed, you're another one that really makes a LOT of sense. Well, I hope you can come out of your introversion and get on with it! Seems like all them "smarts" you got should be shared with some lucky girl!
  18. For some girls/women this isn't ever an issue. For others it's always an issue. The last time I chose a guy based on the cuteness factor I was about 12-13. The friend of mine who still finds it immensely important is educated, stable, intelligent, accomplished... and she's 41 years old.
  19. Yes that's what I meant. Okay, well, I'm getting that a lot of guys might think I'm repelled by their looks when I'm actually not? And wow, wouldn't it be very sad (and too bad) if you just automatically passed over a woman who actually did like and accept you? If a guy feels physically unacceptable, and decides that a woman couldn't want him because of how he looks, what does he usually do? ... Look away? ... try to look at her only when she's not looking at him? ... but when she looks in his direction, pretends he's not really interested in her? (not saying you do all of these but at least one guy in this thread has admitted to doing this ). But if you do any of those things, (rejecting yourself on her behalf), to her it can really feel as if you're just rejecting her, as if you're saying you don't want her. So, what are some other reasons a woman can be attracted to a not so attractive guy? Perhaps wit, charm, humor, demeanor, confidence, sensitivity, similar values, disposition, interesting hobbies, spirituality, etc. ... Or maybe she's been convinced she's not really that attractive herself (it happens). Or maybe she really does see another type of "beauty" in people (also happens). Or maybe she has lots of "ugly" male relatives who have imprinted on her that ugliness means affection and love? (hey it's certainly possible. ). Anyways, there really are a lot of reasons, but for many women whether he's cute is often a very small portion of attraction. For many women it's how the guy makes her feel, not so much how he looks. Like my friend said, a cute guy made her feel "happy," but we're definitely not all like her, because that same guy that made her happy immediately gave me the creeps. Hey, this is actually an excellent point IMO. Yes, there's that stereotype, but is it really true? It seems you're getting glimpses into the fact that that stereotype really isn't accurate, that you can't make blanket assumptions about women's personalities based on how they look. The reality... there are hot girls who are rude snobs, and there are hot girls who aren't. And there are not-so-hot girls who are rude snobs, and there are some not-so-hot girls who aren't. Snobbery and rudeness isn't really based on hot-ness after all. Honestly, I agree with Sheyda and CB... this truly just sounds as if they just don't like you for some reason... or they are simply not interested in being acquainted with you, and not because of your looks. There could be many explanations as to why they're acting that way, and I could only guess at the reasons. But it's easy for me to imagine this has nothing to do with how you physically look.
  20. C'mon you guys, is it really so difficult to imagine that we women don't all go for the exact same type of guy? And is it so hard to imagine that we really aren't all cut from the exact same mold? No matter how many women are screaming and swooning over the current fav, there's always a large group of us standing away from the commotion saying "sheesh, I just don't get what the fuss is about. Just shift your perspective a little, and you'll probably be able to pick us out. The other thing is to stop doubting us when we tell you this. I would suggest that you stop scoffing and dismissing and reinterpreting what we tell you about how we feel, or else you'll never be able to grasp the truth. KO, what really matters to you?... the percentages?... or that special one and only? Personally I only want *ONE* special guy to love and care about me. Beyond that I really don't give a fig what the other billions of guys on the planet feel about me. I'm not really trying to say I'm especially drawn to "physical ugliness"... it's just that I'm not repelled by what many people consider ugliness. I see charm and grace in the eyes, in the heart, in the soul. That's usually where I look when I'm thinking about a mate. I'm not the least bit interested in someone who is "picture perfect" because that's simply not a priority for me. When I met my ex-husband, my first reaction was a simultaneous flood of mixed thoughts, "wow, he's so ugly" and "wow, he's so nice." I was so hopelessly smitten right from the start because he was (and still is) one of the most exquisitely kind and charming people on the planet. And I was like, "Well, if that's who I like, then that's who I like." (But we didn't last because despite all of that, he also has some serious problems.) We've been divorced now for 27 years, but still very good friends. And if I met him for the first time today, I know he'd knock me right off my feet in the same way because his charm is still just that powerful (which is actually kinda scarey. I'm not clear on your question. Do you believe that her physical unattractiveness means she should somehow be interested in you? If so, why? The thing to realize, every girl that catches your eye is not going to automatically also want to be with you. But hey, that's okay. There's a lot of guys that don't do it for me either. That's not to say there's anything wrong with either of us. In looking for a mate you're looking for mutual interest. If you're not what she likes, or vice versa, it's not personal, and just keep looking. I understand that too, because although I find all sizes appealing, I happen to have a very special thing for chunky guys. I've been like this since I was a walking stick myself (5'5" 95 lbs... but I ain't tellin' you the current numbers, so don't ask. Honestly, if I had my preferences all men would be slightly overweight, no kidding. It takes me much, much, much longer to get warmed up to a slim guy. I usually just stay away from them because I have very overwhelming urge to feed them, to try to fatten them up. Why does it really matter, its subjective. Each person has their own opinions as to what they find attractive. Every person has their own characterizations of what they think is best in an individual. I agree, but maybe if I go ahead and tell them it will help break them out of this rigid misconception? Let's hope, eh? . I don't mind the questions, and don't mind explaining if it will really help, because that's why we're here.
  21. I once had a conversation about this with a girl friend. She was swooning over this very handsome guy who immediately set off all my loudest "REJECT THAT ARROGANT LOSER" alarms. To say I was completely turned off doesn't even begin to describe my feelings of strong repulsion. Within a split second I thought it was blatantly obvious he was the most worthless kind of stuck-on-himself jerk alive. She and I had totally opposite reactions, so we talked about it. I was telling her that I often didn't automatically go after the cute guy, and was asking for her perspective (mostly because it was foreign to me, and I'm naturally curious). Somewhere along the way we got on the topic of discussing the fact that some girls are more worried about whether the guy finds them attractive, than whether they find the guy attractive. She responded with, "Honey, I just like 'em pretty. I could care less what he thinks about me, because I just enjoy having someone so gorgeous to look at. Having a guy who's pretty to look at... yeah, that's what makes me happy." We then went on to talk about what she gets out of being with a guy like that, the downside of being with a guy who was so self-impressed and self-absorbed. But still, neither of us invalidated the other, neither of us tried to make the other person wrong. And we could both understand and accept that our differing feelings of attraction/repulsion weren't reflective of the entire female gender. And one other interesting realization was that we'd probably never be in competition for the same guy. I've said before, while some of you are preoccupied and worried about the girls who don't want you, you might be missing out on the ones who do.
  22. Um, you're also putting words in women's mouths, misinterpreting what they're saying.... You're basically saying the women's explanations of their/our feelings here are invalid, inaccurate, unreliable, something to be disregarded. I totally disagree, and I say you can't say what someone else really feels. Speak for yourself, but not for others. And don't try to reinterpret the words of others. And if you don't like others to misinterpret your words, then you should also understand why you shouldn't do it.
  23. The simple truth is all women aren't alike. Some women like/need guys who are hot-looking, and some fall madly in love with guys who look yucky or unappealing to others. I'm often in the latter category. What's hot to me often looks weird to others. To scoff or imply that we're not telling the truth about our feelings just because other women are different is a mistake, and is also insultng. I have no idea why I'm like this, but I've always been like this. I was madly in love with, and felt very attracted to my "ugly" ex-husband, and couldn't even figure out why, but it didn't matter. There was a certain quality in his personality and demeanor that completely stole my heart. He also couldn't figure out why, and it began to eat at him, i.e. "why is she with me?" He was miserable, and made me miserable, and we eventually split up. I say the guys who aren't attractive should really be glad some women like something different. And it doesn't depend on how the girl herself looks... it depends on what SHE LIKES, not how she looks. I say guys who aren't typically handsome should stop defeating themselves... stop deciding what the girl likes, or what she doesn't like... let her make up her own mind. You might be pleasantly surprised. I'm really shy, and going up to guys is a big problem for me. But I see guys all the time who I think are hot (for me) but they look away and self-reject because they don't think they have chance. Deciding a girl couldn't want you because of how you look could be a big mistake.
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