mike_chppr

I told my wife about journaling here online instead of just in my computer. She obviously doesn't want to read this and I don't really want her to know where it is. Am I hiding it by not sending her the URL or should I just say that I am posting on a webboard. Part of her busting me out on lying is the fact that I didn't tell her that I was posting my life onto a webboard but just journaling. She really feels alienated right now, as if she has never known who I was, who I am, and if I'll have a deluge of other lies to deliver two years down the road. She cannot say she loves me even casually as she is unsure of even that. How can she love someone when she feels like they aren't the person they grew to know. The how to stop lying part is confusing. I read the whole deception site except for the cheating portions. It essentially says that full disclosure can be detrimental. As there can become more conflicts than positive experiences. In essense we lie to maximize the positive experiences in order to foster healthy relationships. Right now full disclosure is my policy. If she decides in fact that the trust cannot be rebuilt and hence that she cannot ever fall in love with me, then our marriage is doomed. I've come clean to my coworkers about some of the lies as well. They seem to think it is OK, it is part of the austere of who I am. I disagree, I have three separate lives and I want a single consistent one. I came clean with my team leader from Iraq and my Brother and Uncle as well. The only problem I'm facing now is that we are having Thanksgiving at some friends. I feel like I am living a lie by not cluing them in on what is going on between us. It is conflicting with my desire to be 100% transparent. She has told her parents, but doesn't want to talk with them about it while we are at their house. She doesn't want some sort of parental intervention. And she doesn't want to ruin their Christmas for them. They have their lives and she has hers. I respect that, but I don't believe her parents will be able to keep from thinking or talking about it. I will be able to not talk about it especially now knowing that they know. I need to spend some more time reveling in the consequences of my actions. I need to truly feel the total devistating impact that it has had on those around me. But then again how long should I beat myself up. Isolated and alone. The person that knows the most about me feels as if she doesn't know me at all. Talk about feeling like a deject... rejected and abandoned. I wish I could start all over, meet her at a bar, hi my name is Mike can i buy you a drink. Kind of like the fairy tale world on Grey's Anatomy. In reality that is what it will be like to rebuild the trust. I need my best friend right now, but in the same sense I don't deserve it. I should focus on the lonliness and the damage that my lying has caused to me and others around me. It is that kind of pain that I need to rewire my brain to seek pleasure. I just need to really really feel that pain.

OK, last night was and still is horrible. She is out of town. when she told her dad I said thank you and that it was a total relief. She retorted with "It wasn't for you!" I then had a realization that the distance between us is becoming unmanagable. She is avoiding me, doesn't want to have "discussions" anymore, she is repulsed by me. Everything is becoming so much more real. I called my uncle, he was like you have to wake up everyday and choose happyness. You have to wake up and know and focus on two things, first is being a good person, second is doing the things that make you happy. By lying and deciept, not communicating, you messed up the being a good person, and now my wife who makes me happy is unsure. Things have transpired so quickly. We went from I don't know if I can be in love with you anymore. To this. I called her last night. I tried to talk with her on the phone, but she wasn't having any of it. I sound so pathetic. I told her that I would "never lie to her again" STOP! "cold turkey right now" and that if there was even 1% in her mind that this can work out, I want to start doing couples counseling together. Because these discussions aren't really helping, they are only making things worse. I talked with my team leader from Iraq last night, I confessed to the lies that I had told the team about our relationship. About our relationship being highly sexual in nature when it really wasn't. It is tough telling your close friends that you are a habitual liar and cannot keep your fantasy world in your head, but have an immature need to express it verbally and then stick to your guns about your story. I've come clean to my coworkers, the ones that I'm rather close to anyways. My family, I told my uncle and brother. It is somewhat of a relief to have the cat out of the bag. But then the anxiety is surging throughout my entire body. Clutched with fear of abandonment, hurt, and feeling the pains that I have caused others possibly multiplied upon myself. Forgiving myself is near impossible, and I'm not ready to do that yet. I need to feel the agony that I have caused others. I need to experience life in such a tramatic way that My attachment networks change. I don't want to have a fearful-avoidant attachment style as I'm solid in this category. I want to be very much in the catagory of Securely attached. I believe 100% that the human brain is maleable. I can and will change. The only way I can change is to feel and to feel the evil sides of me to contrast those with the good sides of me. I can no longer suppress anger, fear, anxiety, rage, and depression. I have to figure out how to let them out. (Without killing anyone or anything of course) But in the end, as my wife says, "I didn't do it for you!" It boils down to the idea that me changing may not be her motivation for going down this path. Like the gay child that tells his dad that he is gay, there is nothing the father could have done. The child did it for him. If she walks out on me I have to accept that she did what was best for her irregardless of the stupid things that I have done in our relationship. I'm a little more stable keeping this in mind, and not beating myself up so badly, but it still doesn't make me feel any better. I'm going to loose my best friend, my house, my companion out of all this. I also have to recognize that everytime i lied or tricked my wife into doing something that was a decision not to be with her. I have put all those decisions in a bank account and the investment is being doled out. My uncle is a real role model for me. He and his wife are happy. They live each and every day under the premise that life is too short, do the things that make you happy, be a good person, you have nothing to loose by full disclosure with your mate. So to those of you that may be reading this, Hug your spouses give them a kiss everyday. Go out and do the things that make you and your family happy. Because in the end, life is short, and agony soaks up way to much time and energy. I want to fight for my marriage, but in reality the decision isn't mine. It is hers, I don't want to idly stand by and have her contort my fate. It is also impossible to sit on the couch and idly watch this all transpire. I can sulk and I am, I feel pathetic, and there has to be a time where I snap out of it. I can't blame this on PTSD or her, I am the one that has to live every day of my life with myself. I have to do the things that make me happy. Which involves a cessation of lying, forgiving myself, and learning to attach and connect and feel others.

So where am I at now that I have been honest. I'm 97% sure I'm getting left. She has told her dad which is a huge step for her. I think by confessing my sins that this has given her enough ammo and repulsive distance to do it. To make me out to be the bad guy. I cannot stop crying. This pain is unbelievable.

Yes I hope she does credit that. She is going to counseling tomorrow. But it could just turn more into a hate ME session. I am extremely vulnerable right now. I've been reading the website from Molly above. Honestly the fact that I broke with so many things at once, the odds of patching it up does not look good. It really seems more like I divulged the deluge of lies to seal my own fate. Have her divorce me and get the pain and turmoil of her deciding if she can feel "in love with me" over. But the larger question still exists. Why do I have all these separate lies and like was mentioned above, I'm not fooling anyone. After reading on the deception website I also recognize that 100% disclosure is not the best policy either.

Molly, I've started the 100% disclosure. That is a great idea to internalize them. I've told her 6 major theme lies that I've told historically. She is having a rough time dealing with it. She was going to stay the night, but now she is going to go to work tonight and not come home. So she is dealing with that and me violating her personal space. It is very painful to come clean. I call them lie themes, because it takes so many more lies to cover others up. You not only have to deal with things you have said, but also things that you are hiding. Like I had to tell her that I have two pornography magazines in my army stuff that I haven't looked at since I got back from Iraq and I'm afraid she will find them. I also have a disk with softcore pics on it that I'm afraid she will find and that I have not looked at since I got back. I told her about the lies that I have told my Army buddies about her and I having an amazingly sexual relationship. Truth be told we have maybe had sex 40 times in the last 5 years. And that is pushing it. I told her the lies that I had told my coworkers at work and how I thought she was going to leave me. Subconsciously, if I were her I'd leave me too. I can see why I lied along themes like that. I lied about some of the stuff we did in Iraq. She was under the perception that we got mortered everyday. We did get motered like 3 or 4 times and that scared the heck out of me. I got shot at 3 times where it was really close. I told her once that I had a bullet hole in my pants, but not a scratch on me. It was close, but not that close. It is so pathetic of me. I mean I lied and she sat here at home worrying that I wouldn't make it. She thought I was going to die. It was dangerous and I did go outside the wire almost everyday with Iraqis rather than Americans. That story is fantastic enough. Why do I want to complicate it. So I have kind of gotten to the point in the last 60 days that I don't want to talk about Iraq. I feel like it becomes a complicated lie that I have to keep up with. I have three separate lives and I want ONE. I have My Army Life, My Work Life and My Home Life. I fear being accepted. I see how it works out, with new people I get to this point where they are so attuned to my stories. They think I'm this great guy with all this personhood and then my tap runs out, no more stories, So I seem to make something up about what happened at work or some other unverifiable place. I really alienate people with the bluntness of my selfdisclosure. And then from the shock value of that comes the lies and the traps and all the webs of immaturity and not telling the truth. This will probably cost me my marriage, my house, nest egg, and my best friend. Life is really going down the toilet right now.

I'm boarding a plane, I'll be back in a few hours.

Well we are not working in counseling together. We are working individually. She has to decide if she wants to work on the marriage before a marriage counselor will take us. As long as her tendency is no or yes/no there is no point in seeing a counselor together. Although I think it may help us discuss with one another what is going on inside. I think I keep fumbling over myself. I'm also posting at lying has become a fabric of my personality I'm getting ready to board a plane so I'll be offline for a few hours

Beec, I'm aware of that. I question opening my mouth I feel trapped like am I going to lie again or not tell the whole truth. And she words her questions in such an entraping way, even in innocuous questions like why did you choose to go out into the living room instead of being with me. "The answer to type in my journal is a half truth." I'm really posting this stuff online. and my brother wasn't up yet so I was social with him, but then again I wasn't as I was working on the board. In my response she is looking for the lie I feel like I need to zip it. withdraw right now. I discussed it with my brother and came clean with him. He has known all along and it has pissed him off to no end. He is kind of like when you can talk the truth then come talk to me otherwise I love you as my brother. I came clean. I told him what was going on with my wife and how it has impacted us. I told him I was sorry for all the crap I had done to him in the past. My wife wasn't there, but I felt really exposed. I've already decided that if and or when we tell friends we are splitting I'll totally confess and be open. I don't blame her and neither should they. Her family shouldn't blame her and neither should mine. What she is doing is completely rational and reasonable. I've made my bed and I can sleep in it too.

Dako, Your right, it is taxing. It does wear you out. Even in counseling where it is safe I tend to start lying in the first visit, a kind of make myself seem more screwed up than I really am. I'm smart, I have a Masters Degree in a Mathematics Related field, hold a solid job. But my inner world my emotional world is about a mature as a 6 year old. I'm near 30 right now I'm nearing midlife, and my wife is right life is too short. I really feel in a sense so damaged at this point that I will somehow be destined to spend the rest of my life in this complicated intertwined web of storys and themes. Fantasy and Reality constantly clashing. It is a horrible way to live. Right now it is as if one therapy session a week doesn't push me. I walk away from therapy feeling good about myself, but a few days later I crash. I crash hard, become desparate for attention and do something stupid like violate her personal space. See other post for description. Aside from the lying I'm really beating myself up over last night.

Beec, That is what I'm trying to do. I think she knows the history, as I've discussed it with her. She tells me that she knows I can and will change, but life is short and she doesn't have to put up with my BS. it is exhausting to have to question everything I say and do, and no matter what, she doesn't know if she can ever feel the same way about me. She knows I have done this my whole life. I did it when we met, when we dated and I think she kind of figured that it would stop. But it hasn't. You just get so intertwined into the lives of those that you love that you can't keep it up anymore. I've given full disclosure of what I know about. As I think of other lies that I have told to her in the past should I own up to them or am I adding acid onto a wound. Part of me wants to leave the relationship. But do I really own up to the full extent of the damage I have done to her if I do that. lying isn't the only issue as the link above suggests, but I think it is a HUGE part of our pain together. I feel like I'm totally going to have an anxiety attack. In one since I want a fresh start, in another, what do I really learn from that. I moved 21 times by the time I was 18 years old. My brother and I knew we never had to connect or tell the truth as we would be leaving in 6 to 9 months anyway. So in a way she feels as if I have lied to her about loving her. I love her and I say it. but since I am numb to feeling and attachment she feels like it isn't true. it is just another lie right now. I can say I'm sorry, but I'm numb to that as well, how do you feel sorry. My words and my visceral feelings don't line up and it makes my whole life seem like a lie. And to some extent it is.

If you want the background of how I've gotten here see the following link. Wife loves me but is not in love with me I wanted to come here and develop this topic a little more and get some insight from others. Most of the posts in this board are along the lines of I don't trust my BF or spouse. The caveat here is to be in other set of shoes. What about the person who does the lying. Who has totally violated the trust of others around. As the post above says. Lying has become a fabric of my personality. I embelish storys, don't tell the whole truth, outright lie to protect loved ones. My family knows it, my spouse knows it, my coworkers know it, my friends know it. But the thing is, when this has come into the fabric of your life how do you stop. I've told so many lies and people think things of me that are not true and I have to keep up with them all and who I have told what. I want so badly to come clean. I'm trying desparately with my wife as she will probably leave me because she doesn't or can't trust me. So the deal is I have to live with myself for the rest of my life. If she leaves me that is what she does. I have to deal. I have to somehow forgive myself for all the wrongs that I have dished out to others and right my ship. Now stopping. Do I just come clean everytime someone refers to a lie that I have told in the past. Do I have to delve into my psyche to find the first lie I ever told and got away with. I have no idea how to approach the issue, but I do know this. I HAVE TO STOP!!! The perpetual damage is too much and I'll end up in the hospital just to medicate myself to cope. I think trust and lying are interrelated. I recal having a discussion with my father about trust and how I planned on living through life never trusing anyone. I think this was after an incident where I was in fear of getting the crap beat out of me at school and I asked for him to come pick me up instead of me taking the bus. He couldn't come and I had to deal. My parents were divorced at the time and we happened to be living near or in the same city at the time. My dad told me that that wasn't a good policy in life and that I have to trust others. Well I don't think I've taken his advise. I've lied myself into a corner. Things in 5 years of marriage about my past that I should have come clean on before we got married I still had stored away in the back of my head. My brother and I have discussed how we both lie to protect the feelings of others. I've determined that we would concoct a lie to protect our mother. Well we still hold the truth from our mother. We were lied to up to about the age of 15 and 17 brother and me respectively about our dad. Our mom had had our dad arrested in order to file for welfare. He was raped in jail and subsequently spent the rest of his life dying of HIV. To protect our mother we lie to her that it was her fault that our father died. And the crazy demented stuff that she would do to try and apologize to our dad's side of the famliy. Especially our grandmother. Well we were also lied to about our dad's sexual orientation. He was involved in the Boy Scouts when he was young. On one of the excursions to earn his Eagle Scout identifier, some of the older boys had an initiation for the younger boys which included homosexual acts. He had repressed that side of him until having a wife and two kids he had to leave us to fill his needs that he so desparately craved. So he lived with a boyfriend until he was too sick to support himself where he moved into a hospice. So we have a historical map of our Mom and Dad lying to us to protect us. Well my brother and I have expanded on this. He is not near as bad as I am, but it has impacted us. How do I trust, how do I tell the truth. How do I connect the neural pathways to become a normal white-lie telling adult. How do I repair the perceptions of coworkers, family, and friends about what I have really experienced in life. How do I tell the whole truth to let myself be known. I don't want to be known as the liar and it is apparent from these boards that noone wants to put up with someone that they cannot trust. Points Comments, Suggestions Questions or Interjections encouraged...

OK, Now I'm beating myself up. I realize now that I totally violated her. Not that I raped my wife, but I went into her personal space when she was closing me out. She must feel disgusted with me. She has told me that she is unsure if she will be able to sleep in the same bed with me. It sucks it is killing me. I feel similar and maybe I should go talk to a divorce lawyer. The hurt and anguish that I have caused her. She asked what i was fuming about and I said I was beating myself up and I really couldn't talk to her about it. I have done something so haneous. OK this may freak some people out, but this morning I wanted some relief. I usually get this by "getting off" I couldn't do it. My normal things that send me over the edge wouldn't work. So I opted to sublimate. I used a helathy natural defense mechanism. I felt all the rage for my wife and I imagined raping her I finally went over the top and then laid in the shower and cried in anguish. I say again I would not do this to my wife, I only imagined it. I tried to use a healty defense mechanism and the emotions I felt were near unbearable. I want to feel. If I can't feel the horrible stuff how can I feel the good stuff. She is a little social with me this morning, but she is very very disgusted. She is really putting on a show since we are at my brothers. I can only imagine what things will be like when we get into the airport by ourselves. I almost booked seats in different areas of the plane, but she is afraid of flying so I kept us together. I feel so disgusted with myself. I am at a point that I have told her that I am sorry, and I can only ask for her forgiveness. She does not have to give it to me and I have to be OK with that. She said that she can forgive me on her own time, and even if she does forgive me, can I forgive myself. I am truly sorry. I'm trying to discover what "sorry" FEELS like. It is something you say, but how do you feel it. Right now I feel anguish and disgust, is this sorry, or is sorry a different feeling. In my own hell.

OK, well I blew everything up. Mushroom cloud still has stuff falling. We crawled into bed and I asked for a kiss and a hug. She coldly complied, so I knew she wasn't going to take me up on my offer. Inside my anxiety was fuming. I was boiling hot. I'd never felt my temperature rise like that and the tingles over the back of my shoulders and the hole in my stomach spread all through my chest. I had taken my sleeping pills once I knew she wasn't interested, but I couldn't shut my mind down. I was trying to breath deeply and calmly. And then I had a yes no question. It started pounding louder and louder in my head. Finally I blurted it out. Babe I have a yes / no question for you? She asked what it is and I asked her if she minded if I got off. She said sure. and so that is just what I did. So for the next 15 to 20 minutes I pleasured myself. After about 10 she put on her ipod so that she couldn't hear me. I could tell she was irritated, but I was totally into my pleasure. Somehow I had decided that I would clutch her at the moment of climax. With all her blocking actions hindsite 20/20 this was a bad idea. Well I did I had a most powerful stress relieving shut my mind down for the night orgasm. Upon clutching her she sprang out of bed and went to the bathroom for about 5 or 10 minutes. She came back in and asked abruptly if I needed anything, I had already cleaned myself up. I said no and she crawled back into bed. After my pills wore off and I woke up I leaned over to touch her. I got the "uugh" with a violent type of withdrawal. She is furious. I so want her to express what she is feeling. In some ways I want her to lash out at me. I'm getting to the point where I don't want to deal. I want to walk away. That this agony that we are putting each other through isn't worth it. That we won't get through it and that our lives won't be better in the end. She is shutting me out and I can totally see where todays flight home will be miserable and isolated. When we get home she is going to go on a business trip, so I won't see her for the next couple of days. Did I hurt her. I asked for her permission, and she said yes. this just sucks. It really really sucks. Or should I let her deal with her own emotions and feelings and not get involved while she goes through her fury. I do love her very very much and I don't want her to be in any more turmoil than she already is. I also have my own things to deal with like managing anger and anxiety and depression and lying and trusting and loving. Why does all this have to be so miserable.

Well it seems that everything is boiling down to TRUST. I've been a compulsive liar my whole life. Today, I felt trapped into another one. She was feeling sick and I asked if she wanted me to stay in the room. or go out and be social since we are visiting my brother. Well, I went out and typed the above post. When I got back from going out with my brother and his wife, she asked me why I didn't stay in the room. and what I was working on. I told her I need to braindump in my journal. Then I further explained that it was on a website where I didn't want her to see what I was writing. She immediately felt that she had been lied to and that I was just continuing the violation of her trust. She is unsure if she can ever trust me. that it is so much extra energy on her part to keep me accountable and that shouldn't be her baggage. She further told me that she is leaning towards the "NO" side of getting back together. I said some stupid things about wanting this to pass and waiting it out. Working together it sounded kind of pathetic. I was hurt and crying, wiped myself off and we went out to eat. I got really horny and wanted to have my hands all over her. I sort of did and got a back off. I wispered in her ear that I wanted to make love to her tonight. Once we were seated I went to the restroom and sent her a text message on her phone that sounded something like this. Hey sexy, I wanted to let you know two things. I really want to make love to you / no intercourse necessary & I really want you to lay over my lap so I can spank you. I will not do any of these things to an unwilling participant and she knows I would not willingly hurt her. I adore her Passionate Intentions, Your husband. Well I got it off my chest. She got the message about an hour later after we finished eating. On the drive back to the house my anxiety has risin about 900% i can feel the fear eating me alive. Can I really do this. Make love to her. I want so badly to rid myself of this sexual aggression. To just have my hands all over her. Spanking, well we have never done that before. and like I said I want to get out some of my aggression. I think I owe her four open handed swats accross those cheeks of hers. Because she has really broken my heart 4 times in the last couple of weeks. Oh and I want to leave a red mark. But like I said only to the willing. And of course turn about is fair play. Making love to her. She has said that all my past advances are a way to coax her into sex. Should I do ground rules of no intercourse. undies and panties stay on. Just touch her and feel her and really try to connect really try to feel her. What if she totally wants it at that point. Then it is like I tricked her by saying no intercourse and we end up having sex. Ground rules could be that we can make love, but if she wants sex she has to reinitiate in the morning or sometime tonight after we have gone to sleep. I'm really cautious of tricking her into doing something she doesn't want to do. My anxiety is killing me. Well she has seemed indifferent to the response. I think she has read it a few times. she seems to still kind of connect and kind of withdraw, kind of ambivalent. When we got back to the house we had some small talk about leaving to go home tomorrow. She said she needed to go on a walk. I asked if she wanted a visitor (i.e. myself) and she said she needed some alone time to think. OK make my anxiety 1200% So I started typing this when she was getting ready to go on her walk. She asked if I was sending emails and I told her I was posting to the webboard and that there is a community of others in simliary situations. I told her I was posting everything with no names or specific identifying information. She offered a hug before she left and then she is now thinking on her walk while she blows off steam. When she comes back I have no idea what state of mind she will be in. God help us that we do the right thing. I'm terrified of screwing up right now. but in the end it is not my decision. I'm staying because I believe we can work this out and this is the only instance in my life where I have made a promise before GOD. I intend on keeping it. I believe and have faith that our marriage can mend and heal and I think she feels like me bringing God into the picture is testing her faith. She believes God will forgive her no matter what she does. Gridlock resumes again. Any comforting words or simliar situations or any feedback from anyone would be appreciated. Thanks, Mike_chppr

Hey man, this time is rough for all of us. She is going to have to process things in her own world. Things are just as much her fault as it is yours. Reconnect the dots in both of your heads. it takes time to give yourself new maps to work from. We are both going through some turmoil. Give it time. I'm don't have a timeline. but realize things arn't going to snap back overnight. You have to heal and she does too when you break a leg it takes time to heal and even then it never heals in quite the same way. Same thing for our emotional lives. Hang in there bud, you are doing the right thing. Continue to be available, but also balance that without trying to be clingy. I have some more examples of why this is so, but I have to go. Take Care

OK, the no sex thing that I mentioned last night. I've discovered in myself that that is just more of a way to cope. kind of a make her want me so badly by not giving of myself.... to what is the end result. When we do my anxiety will be so far up the chain that everything will be akward and there will be so much pressure on that one moment. So I cracked. last night I told her that I had been thinking about some of the things that I had said and wanted to recant. I told her that if and/or when she was sexually available, I am available as well. She affirmed that she was OK. I don't want to read too much into it. It is what it is. It is really tough to see your partner squirm away when you initiate touch. I've been reading this book on Attachment Theory and young childrent and how ambivalent and avoident children carry their attachment issues later on into life. I know that the self-fulfilled prophecy becomes a lot of it. We push others away to affirm our "avoident" maps. Or we seek and then deny others as a way to affirm our "ambivalent" maps. based on our early lives we have constructed these maps. There is also a "securely attached" map, but I know I have never had that in my whole life. I have to believe that the chemisty of love exists. That it is possible for me to be and feel in love. I'm spending the weekend at my brothers house with my wife and my brother have sit down and talked about our views and how our childhood has affected who we have turned out to be. I've shown him the website for attachements on adult relationships and also the one on emotional trauma link removed link removed Except for substance abuse you can pretty much nail down the whole gammit of symptoms of prior emotional trauma. There is also a link for an adult trauma history questionaire. I've stewed over hours writing in every remote memory that could have affected me that I can recall. These are the ones I can remember, I'm fully aware that some of the memories are very very repressed as my brother remembers some that I don't and he is younger than me. here is the link to the questionaire. link removed My mind has been in tons of turmoil the last few weeks. I've reevaluated many many things about my life and the patterns that I've developed. For example. I don't trust anyone. I sort of do, but I never really really trust anyone. So how do I confirm the map of mistrust. I lie. I become a fantastic liar. Everything about how I display my life becomes a lie to my family, my loved ones, my friends and coworkers. Then when I get called out on it and ostracized it reafirms my "avoidant/ambivalent" attachment behaviors and also further affirms that I cannot trust anyone, because they will abandon/ostracize me. I can live life on my own. I am capable and I don't need anyone else, my subconscious screams, but my conscious is dealing with all the repercussions and numbing the actual feeling so I become all the more stoic. Once I edit the personal trauma survey for appropriate content I'll post it here so that others can see how I'm dealing with my wife, and still staying around to give her the space and opportunity to feel in love with me. I've shut her out so many times over the last 5 years. I know it is going to be a tough transition for both her and me, and it will either happen "magically" or it won't. I want to feel. I don't want to be angry. I want to feel joy I want to feel love, I want to feel angy, I want to feel remorse. I don't want to repress myself anymore and be as others may see as "stoic." The next crazy thing was while looking at my brothers pictures of us that he has collected. you see a total paradigm shift in our facial expressions from being happy little children to almost ghostlike and morbid photo expressions. I've been struggling with the idea that I have never been happy. but after seeing those photos I know that there is a repressed little happy me that I want to let out. and part of that means tearing down emotional walls of repression and delusion. It might not happen overnight, but I want to feel the full range of emotions. and express them in healthy ways like humor and sublimation. not passive aggressiveness and acting out. I know it is a lot for my wife to finally start to hear and become knowlegable about what really happened to my brother and I when we were younger. I don't want to use this to change her feelings towards me. To play the victim where she stays around to take care of my tormented soul as to not damage my psyche any more than has already been done. I want to feel the chemistry... to feel in love. I know now that it isn't a choice and that the human spirt is resiliant and capable. I want so badly to fall in love with my wife. But if it is not her then I want so badly to fall in love with another to truly experience the chemistry of being "IN LOVE"

Blue Sea, I won't say things are going any better for me. In fact I have my own concocted intricate hell. But I will say this. Seeing a therapist has helped. I'm really a go getter, Once I saw the therapist, I had a total freakish anxiety attack. I had to rediscover myself. But here is the thing. One part of me realized that I needed to change me for either my wife or for the next woman that comes into my life and chooses to spend the rest of her life with me. I'm not going to be an instantaneously different person overnight, and trying to change yourself and shove it in her face "look at me I've changed" is going to piss her off. We have had more talks discussions and arguments since the last time I've posted. She is angry with me that I didn't "Man-Up" and give her an ultimatum. This is totally what she expected me to do. But I didn't. she feels like I've wallowed into my own world and kind of wusssed out. She thinks that I've latched onto the idea that if I don't change she will leave me. She has said this and truth be told, she could leave me just to leave me. not because of the way I act or have treated her, just because that is the way she is. People do things for their own reasons. Ask any parent who has been told by their child that they are gay or lesbian or want to go through gender reassignment. Just as they have to accept that person because they love them doesn't mean the best thing at that point is abandonment. I can't help myself right now doing things for her. Tea in the morning, making the bed, doing the laundry, putting gas in her car. But I was angry when she thought I was trying to change for her. She has reiterated that I have decided that she is leaving me. She doesn't know what she wants. and I'm preparing for the worst case scenario, when in fact that isn't what is going on in her head. If I try to explain what is going on in her head I would end up rationalizing it as in she is leaving me for XYZ reason. Counseling is helping, most insurances cover it to some extent, and it is worth it to use a professional to help rediscover yourself. I've learned so much about who I am. at first I think I partly did it because my wife was maybe leaving me, but really I'm doing it because I'm in emotional turmoil and I have to become a better person for me. People in your life come and go. Your spouse I think you always hope is there for you, but it is a choice and at any time they can walk away from that choice. Realizing that is a big part of the battle. Our plan of action right now, is to continue individual counseling. I'm working on the concepts of Attachment Theory and Trauma Healing. I've changed my outlook on life significantly in literally the last few days. With her she is going to counseling. At first I wanted to grill her on all that she was discussing to see where she was at and prepare myself for the inevitable I'm leaving. Now I'm more stable. She's my wife I can still swat her butt as she passes by and work out with her. But right now. I have to work extra diligently to give her her space. She has been going out with guys that are totally not her type. Kind of playing the wingman woman to help get them hooked up. It makes me jealous, but at least I know about it. From individual counseling we will go one of two routes. I'll probably continue individual counseling. But the both of us need to do either a couples based marriage counseling or a couples based disolution counseling. Something to kind of bang the cobwebs out and discover ourselves and how we interacted together that made things not work. There could and are things about her that are just as detrimental to what is going on in your relationship as there are in yours. We tend to get married to people who have the same levels of differentiation. Then we get into an apparent noncommunicative gridlock. It isn't that we have nothing to talk about, it is more that we already know the response. So we just don't push buttons. We get to where we deny exposing who we really are and stop negotiating the gives and takes of a relationship. From there one reaches a boiling point and changes leaves or changes and works it out or doesn't change and leaves. Marriage counseling kind of helps that issue along. and Dissolution counseling kind of helps so that you don't beat yourself up so bad and don't regress in life, but move forward and become a better person despite all that has happened. I know we both don't want the alternative. I'm struggling right now with the issue of Sex. We both, are available for each other. I mean what if she wants to F***. Do I conceed. Or do I do the no contact thing and sort of be like I'm not going to have that kind of contact until I feel that we are both in love with one another. I'll touch you in any kind of way, but we are not having sex until this thing starts to blow in the other direction. or is this just passive aggressive.

I'll wish you luck, but keep in mind that this is just as much about you as it is about her. It isn't just her reception to counseling, but yours as well. You can detriment and confound the problem if you decide in your head that "she has the problem" we all have problems and need to own up to them in order to be known. That is true intimacy. Did you check out that weblink above on Marriage Help? What do you think of the material on that site? OUT here

I think so many military people are reluctant to call, it seems so akward, but what are you going to do, tell your buddies and go to the medical clinic. Your buddies will tell you that women are like fish in the sea. Medical clinic... Red tape, red tape, red tape. You might get an appointment, after seeing three doctors and 2 months of time. military onesource is the way to go. What ever happens, at least now things don't seem so daunting.

Your right, I am trying to psycoanalyze her. Obviously through the last week or so I have been extraordinarily attentive. Things that I haven't done in the past that I should have been doing all along. Kissing her before I leave in the mornings even if it is a peck on the forhead because she is asleep. Giving her a hug when she comes home at night or when I get home. Not a hellow hug a "Hugging till Relaxed" kind of hug read "Passionate Marriage, maybe chapter 5 to know what I mean. Texting her phone during the day to see how it is going. Complimenting her daily outfit. Talking to her (concienciously attempting to make eye contact the whole time) Lighting up when I see her come into the room (concienciously) Trying to spend my whole day with or without her without crossing my arms. (conciensiously, this is a terrible negative body language thing I've picked up) Weekends, cleaning the house doing the laundry fixing breakfast, or picking it up from a Restaurant and bringing it home to her still in bed So am I doing these things to influence her decision. Who am I kidding HECK YES. but I'm also doing these things because this is who I want to be, this is the kind of man I want to be for her or any other woman in my life should she leave me. I'm not sure about how much having "discussions" is helping, I know I'm having to face my own fears much more readily. She seems so deterministic. I want to rationalize the why, but today while reading my book I realized this is a defense mechanism of mine. Rationalization is the primative defense called "reaction formulation" My default is "passive-aggressiveness". I'm hoping to move into more mature functioning like sublimation and humor. I tried humor today when we were having a serious discussion. I told my wife that it was good she can laugh about some of these things and laughed with her a bit, fully knowing that my insides were torn to shreds. Tonight I didn't really want to have a "discussion" but in the silence and a few civilties later, she says "do you really want to have this discussion now?" I said yes! I started with. I'm concerned that you aren't wearing your wedding ring, I don't know if you forgot or if you aren't wearing it because you are distancing from me. I followed with I don't want to know the answer to that. I have my anxiety that I have to deal with. Right know if you answer that and it is the result I want then my anxiety is relieved. If it is not it is just increased with the addition of fear. So I think I'll stick with resolving my current level of anxiety. She did clear up one thing for me. I felt like before she was saying that she had never felt "in love" with me. She told me tonight that yes she did feel "in love" when we got married, she is just unsure at this point in her life if she can ever feel a sort of animalistic attraction for one another, she hasn't felt it in the prior 4 years why should she start feeling it now and can she even feel that way now. she feels like she is playing 75% wife and not giving me 100% if she doesn't feel like she can give 100% to me then she deserves to find someone that she can give 100% to. Also I deserve to have someone that can give me 100%. I agree I do deserve that, my hope is that someone is her. I'm catching myself trying to restate her position to her, I'm trying to figure out the whys in her head a sort of rationalizing, so in the end I can say that evil woman left me for XYZ reasons. Demonize her so I don't face my own inner deamons. Well raise the BS flag buddy, cause rationalization is one of them. I'm a math geek. 100% rational. I have hope that I am able to latch onto the principles of Attachment Theory and not reduce myself to be someone to the likes of Asperger's Syndrome which is very deterministic. I took a big step tonight in letting her know I felt rageful and loving at the same time, this puts me in a lot of turmoil inside and is tough, but at the same time I'm Thankful. If she had just walked out on me, I would have blamed it on Iraq and continued on the track of my same nurosis. Iraq had its part. The part it played is that.... We both had issues before I left, we were sort of playing off oneanother. When we split it was a wake up call to us both. I didn't see it until I was mostly through reading "7 Habits of Highly Sucessful People" reading that book put our marriage in perspective of each of us having our own independence but equally interdependent with one another. Then I started reading sex self help books. Anything except the Tantric idea, this fiddles too much with my Judeo Christian Ethic. Then I ran out of those books, "Trust me if it is in digital format I have read it" and I still ordered books to be sent out to me. Then I came home for leave and was incapable of putting the wealth of knowledge together to any use. Uncomfortable and pressured, we both had ideas of how the two weeks were going to be, but they didn't line up with either of our expectations, not that we didn't have a good time, we just were a bit unsatiated and still distanced as I was still going to have to go back for another 6 months. Getting back I ordered Marriage help books. If it was digital I read it, I think I read three by different authors which basically said the same thing just approached the issue with a different or "marriage therapist accepted" way to do things. The majority of which involves "Communication." Then came the 5 love languages, this gave me some perspective on how I wasn't connecting with her needs being very different from mine according to the tests at the end of the book that she and I took. Then came Passionate Marriage. This was the king of marriage books in my reading. It brought together so many aspects and issues and problems and really growing up "Differentiating" it allowed me to relook at the 7 habits book and piece together my dependence / independence / interdependence framework exclusively into the context of our marriage. I told her how great this book was for me and that I had grown so much from reading it. We decided to buy her a copy and we would read it together (me doing a reread) and send emails to discuss. We made it to chapter 3 and I don't think she read the book she just looked at my email comments. This book helped me out, it gave me some defintions for things like intimacy, differentiation, spirituality, understanding the concept of having and following a connection. On the phone while I was in Iraq, she felt as if I would have all these preconcieved notions about her. She wanted for when I came back to start afresh. Well with mental health getting in the way I was trying. not 4 days before she dropped the bomb I was telling this to the psychiatrist that I wasn't meeting her emotional needs. It was causing some difficulty, but nothing I didn't think would work out. 4 days later Wha BAMM. Now I am very angry that she has only given us less than 60 days to reconnect. This seems so hypocritical of her after asking that I drop my preconceptions of her as being nonsexual. In fact she is very sexual, she feels like there should always be this animalistic attraction that you just can't keep your hands off of one another. She is not sure that she can get this from me and she is not sure that she can ever again feel this way for me. She doesn't word it exactly that way and don't let my summary fool you. it is way more complicated than that. I'm tempted not to write what she says at all as it feeds my rationalization side. Switch gears This morning She let me scoot next to her under the covers and give her a hug. I felt so loved. I did. she stroked my back as I settled in in a nonsexual kind of way. I felt really loved. Before she left for work I kind of akwardly told her that I felt loved this morning and a sort of thanking her for that. Well you can see that she was purturbed by this, so I spent the entire evening stewing over weather I felt loved or just comforted. I had settled in on comforted, but when discussing with her tonight, I took a stand for myself, I am not going to let her reaction determine my feelings. I felt loved goshdarnit. It is possible for one person to feel it and not the other. She fears that if she does touch me as in like a hug or a kiss that I'm reading into it. She doesn't want to trail me along. Like now she won't change her clothes in front of me. I guess if you are going to leave someone you have to distance yourself and that is natural on her part. It hurts nonetheless. I also would grab her butt or tickle her right now if I felt it appropriate and felt like she really wanted to be touched by me, but I think she would feel acosted and angry if I did those things so I don't but I totally want to. I have a feel for her point of view. I've neglected her the 4 years prior to going to Iraq even drastically distancing myself prior to leaving. She is angry at herself for putting up with it. Doesn't know if she can handle some of my hangups that she knew were present when we got married. Is fully aware that I am changing and growing up to be a "MAN" but she wants more out of life, "life is too short" as she puts it. Yep less than 60 days! less than 60 days to decide she can't deal! Ohhh I'm burned up. I want to put a big log in the backyard like 24 inches in diameter. Just go out here and hack off a 1 foot section with an axe. That is a good thing. that defense mecanism is Sublimation and is a part of Mature functioning. What are you going to do? I don't know, keep reading, keep cleaning, keep praying? I cannot let anxiety and fear get the best of me. I just can't!

Call the military onesource. I think the number is 1800ONESOURCE You have 6 free sessions with a counselor per issue. So issue number 1 for you is "I can't open up with my wife" Issue for your wife is whatever she decides it is, you canot deterimine or diagnose her issues for her, she has to differentiate and determine that for herself, If she wants to go to counseling have her figure out why and she will have to call ONESOURCE to set up her own appointment. Two recomendations, First, choose different counselors, so that keeps the confidentiality clause stable. Recognize and work on your own isses first, if after that you both decide to stay in the marriage, then do the couples counseling. I'm not at the couples counseling point I'm at the individual, level and have learned tons about myself in the last week and a half. I too crave sex, but there is something about that. My wife needs me to "open up" for her to feel that animalistic urge for me, well I haven't cracked in 4 years now after being deployed for 16 months she has seen me open up more in 10 days then in 5 years of marriage. She didn't feel like having sex cause she was not "into" me. AKA I didn't open up to her emotionaly. Basically it was my anxiety and fear that was playing out my compulsiveness for her and I ended up being really passive aggressive to get it, like having arguments about sex for the make-up sex. She is sick of herself for putting up with that, and is unsure if I can give her what she wants out of life, She is going to counseling to see if she is giving me the most painful punch in my life. Or holding to the integrity and meaningfulness of our vows. To have and to hold to love and to cherrish for better or worse in sickness and in health. for better or worse, you guys got that one down. sickness and in health, it sounds like depression is getting you both down, I'm not recommending meds, but counseling on an individual basis can get you referred to a psychiatrist if that ends up being a solution to end the short term anxiety or long term solution to an array of mental health issues if present. To have and to hold to love and to cherrish, We have each other, but we never hugged or kissed on a daily basis so the hold thing was never integrated into our livlihoods. To love and to cherrish, We love each other, but do we really cherrish each other, do we really preen and pawn over one another, sometimes it takes extra effort to say someone is beautiful or complement them on something they are doing or have done, but it all adds up to doing for that person what makes them feel cherrished. My wife hasn't felt cherrished for the last four years she feels like I have been discusted with her appearance and I never said anything and encouraged her one way or the other. She feels if I cherrished her, that i would have said something and worked with her. I felt like it was always my hang up that I felt that way and shouldn't express that to her. I think we may be in similar situations, a little different, but the concept that you bought the book the "sexless marriage" she probably got really defensive on that one. I can see myself buying that book too. Good books.... 5 love languages 7 Habits of Highly Successful People Passionate Marriage I think all three of these tie together to put the big picture of meaning together. Now opening up. I'm struggling through that one myself. I'm started with reading "Becoming Attached" and going through counseling also there is a website, on Attachment Theory and marriage. I'm really sold on this theory. link removed You have to realize it may not work. coming to terms with that is what is going to make you see yourself for REAL and make the changes you need to become the better person for you. Not her problem to get her to want to be with you. She is leaving you probably for the same reasons my wife is thinking about leaving me for. "emotional unavailabilty" and sexlessness. it isn't sexless because of her, it is because I put so much pressure on us to have it so often that sex is often loaded with guilt. Equals negative emotions equals a mechanism for her not to want you, it probably isn't that she doesn't want sex, she doesn't want you right now. I'm rambling in my own right, seriously call ONESOURCE!

Your words are encouraging, thank you very much. I am on the antidepressents already for PTSD. I think they are working, it is just that there is soooo much going on at the same time it has been and is really overwhelming. Plus it takes a few weeks for them to kick in. She literally dropped the bomb on my third day of meds. I drove tonight to some friends an hour and a half away as she is having another Girls night out with coworkers, she has to work tomorrow as she did today as well. I get the feeling she is using work to avoid coming home and dealing with us. Thanks again, your posts mean a lot to me right now. I'm now trying to read all 400+ pages of "Becoming Attached" before my next therapy appointment, you are right, I'm trying to stay busy, busy busy. I can't control her, but I can control me. My other thoughts are, what the heck is she thinking, there is no way she did not feel in love with me when we were dating and getting together! We may me out of touch right now, and yes she has differentiated to be a better person since I've been gone, but I'm working on myself, What the F? Thanks Again

Screw it, I fessed up, it increases her distrust of me as there was no reason to lie. She is going to call me back, and I'll deal with whatever I have to. I'll never become a better person unless I fess up and be held accountable. Unfortunately that accountable person may walk out on me. After all it just gives her one more reason to walk out the door. I don't want this to be a self-fulfilled prophecy. I just want her to really know who she is living with and with all things set aside, Choose to grow old and in love with me. She is deciding if she is in love with me, or if she has ever been in love with me. I feel like crap, but that is how it is supposed to feel when you confess, right?

Get married when you fall in love, recognize that your partner has issues and has exposed them to you, you have issues and exposed them to them, and both of you decide that these issues are something that you can spend the rest of your lives with, so age.... DOESN'T MATTER is what matters is your emotional personhood to be able to determin what your issues in life are and how to express them to another human being. and their capacity to do the same.

I don't know what to say, You must really be hurting right now, and I'm in a lot of pain right now too, I'm finding it helpful to take a step back and reevaluate who I am as a person. decide who I want to be in life, I've put a lot of pressure on my wife to be there for me, She is broken now and I need to be there for her, but she won't let me. Your friend, {I get lost in all the numbers} probably feels like she knows that the contract losses aren't good and may blame herself somewhat, she may be scared that you will blame her too if the company fails, she could be thinking that If I disolve the friendship now, being laid off won't feel so bad. You are after all her boss which makes the situation even more complicated. Develop yourself, be strong in who you are and take some time to get to know yourself, your emotions are raw right now. Sitting down with a counselor helps me get things off my chest and is helping me control my anxiety and hurt, It may not hurt to look into seeing someone for a few weeks. It doesn't mean you are crazy, it just means you need to talk with someone without the pressure of a relationship or friendship so that you can truly discoveer yourself. I'm not in your shoes, and no where close, but I empathize with the hurt, and I'm having to make life 1 hour at a time right now. just make the next step, get my stomach untied from the knots that it is in and move on. Hope this helps, or I'm just another crazy guy who feels like typing to get through another hour. Best Wishes