curlygirl47
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I do appreciate your looking out for me. Part of the problem is that P. WAS committed and loyal to me for a period of time --- thus my shock and confusion when he bailed on me. However, I am rallying. I still want to have my basic attitude toward life, which is a loving and accepting one, one that accepts others imperfections as I do my own. I have hurt people before, so I have been on that side, and I know that when we do that we hurt ourselves as well. P. will have to deal with his own pain at some point. I think whatever happens between us, my greater purpose is to love him and to leave him with a good impression of me if I leave. My mother has always been a good example of taking the high road, and that is the one that I want to take. Something else that I am pondering, From The Art and Practice of Loving: "Everything that you ever receive will come to you in a flawed vessel. All vessels are flawed. That one swears too much, that one makes too little money, that one has a mole on his cheek, and that one laughs too loud. Every blessing, every lesson, comes in a flawed vessel. You can focus either on the contents of the vessel or the flaw. If you do not like the role someone plays in your life, you will see a flaw in him. If you focus on it, get lost in negative judgment, you have no way either to love him or to learn from him. There he is ---glorious, flaw and all --- and here you are muttering about what a terrible thing it is that he does what he does. Thus you waste your blessings."
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If I'm sounding defensive, well --- I am. But isn't this better than whiny little me? Here's something I just read from Beyond Blame, and it points out some things I need to continue to work on: "It is counterproductive to blame others, but it can be just as destructive to blame yourself for unpleasant circumstances. Rather than dwelling on who is at fault, it is far better for you to accept responsibility for overcoming the problem and get on with the business of taking charge of this process and working things through. This effort is easier said than done, for the chief obstacles that get in the way of resolving conflicts are those unresolved issues that you have been ignoring. The consequence of accepting responsibility for a conflict is that you then have to do a tremendous amount of work on yourself in order to rectify matters. This has a lot less to do with things you do on the outside than with internal strategies you can adopt to feel more personal control and take responsibility for your internal feelings." I appreciate you all being there and helping me think everything through. Your comments, positive and negative, do put me in a better position to "take responsibility for my internal feelings."
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It seems like you skipped my last post, or just read into it rather than truly listening. My point was, and is, that I am feeling much stronger and that I'm not putting up with anymore nonsense. Whether I sleep with my ex or not has little to do with anything at this point. I'm seeing the relationship differently, I'm beginning to have more control, and I'm worried about it less. I'm applying for a job in California, in fact, and I'm feeling much better emotionally and mentally since I started my meds and started seeing a counselor. I'm not starting a new relationship in this town, that's for sure. I'll only be here until the summer, if I can find another job and if things don't change radically, as I've already said. If I want to have sex with my ex in the meantime, I'll do it. On the other hand, we're definitely going to have a talk about everything, and I may decide at that time that I won't sleep with him anymore. I've just had a complete physical, and I'm sexually healthy and will keep an eye on that. I'm not stupid, and I'm not careless. I have been vulnerable, yes, and P. has had a lot of power. I'm taking it back. I told him on the phone yesterday that I can live with it either way --- meaning whether we are together or not. I was very calm, and I'm sure that he is beginning to see me in a different light and to have more respect for me. If you don't think so, please at least give me the benefit of the doubt and wait to see what happens.
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It feels really good to be mad instead of sad for once!!!
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At the moment, I've got my first healthy sense of anger since this whole thing started. Background: Last week, I was out at a local bar (not with anyone), just hanging out and talking to the very few people who were there. Well, one of the fellows has a girlfriend and a wife, and one or the other saw us talking (that's all) and assumed we were together and left a nasty note on my car. Now, since then, I've stayed away from that bar and that guy completely, but last night P. got a telephone call from the same girl, apparently, who told him that I had been with that guy all day yesterday. So, without even talking to me about it, he cancelled our date, telling me only that he couldn't make it. He was very upset, and I'm now very upset too. Not because of what the stupid woman said but because we wouldn't be going through all of this crap if we hadn't split in the first place --- and he could stop these rumors in about three seconds if he just stood up with me in public and faced people down and told people what we mean to each other. I just told him that on the phone, and I feel good about it. I told him it's in his hands, and I also told him that I am getting out of this small-minded town if he didn't handle the situation and stand by me.
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I can't do the no-sex thing yet, it seems. But I'm keeping my eyes and ears open, and P. has said he's not seeing anybody else, so I'm kind of riding this out right now and feeling more positive about it. I am continuing to look for a job out of town, however, and not thinking of this relationship as permanent unless I hear differently from P. in the next few months. I am feeling much better now that I am on an anti-depressant.
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Thanks for the encouragement. Yes, I do see that my going to Alabama alone was the best choice, as I'm sure the ex was surprised I didn't wait for him to go with me. Also, I took off work yesterday for an extra day of travel, and he called my work and was worried when I wasn't there. The important thing now is for me to stay calm, not call (even though he left his cell phone in my car last night), and let him come to me again. We will establish a pattern where he initiates, since obviously he is more comfortable with that. He did tell me on Friday, though, that if I got lonely, to call him.
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Hey guys --- I don't use cocaine (never have), but I do smoke pot with P. occasionally. I never smoke on my own. I have to go to a meeting right now, but I wanted to let you know that I went to Alabama this weekend, and while I was traveling the ex called twice, and he wanted to see me last night. It was very sweet and like old times. He said he had never meant to hurt me but he knew he had, and that we needed to talk. We didn't get much talking done last night, as we went out dancing and drinking. He mentioned going out again tonight, so I'll let you know how it goes. I can say this: last night he was more like his old self than he has been since December, and I felt again that he is in love with me. By the way, he gave up coke as a New Year's resolution.
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Hey --- the weekend was great. I went home to Alabama, and while I was traveling the ex called twice, and then he wanted to see me last night. He said he had never meant to hurt me but he knew that he did, and that we needed to talk. However, we didn't do much talking; instead, we went out and drank and danced and sang and went home and made some love. So I guess we still need to talk. But for now I'm happy --- just the slightest bit anxious and hungover, but happy just the same. This morning he touched my face in the old way he used to.
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I appreciate your comments, and I'm heading home now to start packing and then just see how I feel. The money thing is a big deal, though --- you'd understand if you knew just how bad my financial situation is. Anyway, I know you care, and I need to hear the different perspectives. I hope you have a wonderful weekend, as I am about to get out of here and won't have my computer.
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Thanks, Belladonna. I guess I'm about to get out of here for the day, so I won't have my computer at hand. I hope you and everybody else ---- including me --- find some peace this weekend in whatever we are doing. I have to decide quickly if I am going to Alabama to see my daughter or not or waiting until next weekend, when the ex says he might go with me. I think what I will do is go ahead and go home and start packing and cleaning up around the house and then just decide somewhere along the way if it feels right. I know I don't need to make decisions based on what P.(the ex) does, but on what I believe is the most loving thing to do, for myself, my daughter, and my ex. And that is the tricky part.
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If you're not into this, please skip it and don't be offended. My friend just brought me this passage from the Bible, and I am thinking it over. I've read it many many times, in the past, and I think it is part of my general philosophy of living and loving --- which may help some of you to better understand where I am coming from. I call myself a recovering Southern Baptist, as a joke, but it's largely true. I do go back to my faith to try to find a center from which to approach love and the choices I make. "Love is long-suffering and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, does not get puffed up, does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things." I don't want to overlook the parts about behaving indecently and about rejoicing with the truth. The truth is sometimes hard for me to accept.
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I'm interested in this discussion because I have just started taking Lexapro --- it's been 3 days, and I'm feeling a little weird. Not much better yet, but I can feel a weird sensation, kind of a buzz or something. I am also taking Klonopin for anxiety, until the Lexapro kicks in. What should I expect in the coming days and weeks?
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BigJim, I'll bring my copy of the book to work and post some passages for you. Sorry I don't have it with me today. Some things that stick out in my memory are: "Quiet, persistent, non-demanding love from a person who also respects himself is almost irresistible." By the loving take-away, I think this is emphasized. You become quieter, saying less and offering less, but still listening and being gentle. The author also says, "You must retain the ability to say no" --- in other words, don't be at his or her beck and call every time she calls.
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Thanks to TiredMan and to everybody. I am having a hard time today just trying to make a decision about my trip to Alabama. My daughter wants me to come this weekend, but if I do I'll make the drive alone (which is hard) and I won't see P. (we have a date for tonight), and I don't really have the money for the trip anyway. If I go next weekend, P. says he might go with me, and he can help me with expenses. But my daughter has some things on her calendar for next weekend, so we'd have to work around those. I have to decide in the next hour or so. I see my daughter only once a month because she lives with her Dad. She didn't want to come to SC when I got a new job here. I know all of this isn't really related to what we've been talking about except that I guess I am feeling torn between all the different considerations with this trip. Bottom line: I'd rather wait until next weekend and hope P. goes with me ---not just because I want a chance to be with him and talk to him, but because of the money thing and because of the company for the drive there and back. But I hope this is the right thing to do.
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Despite what I just said about just settling for the sex, I didn't mean it and you probably all know that--- damn, I'm wishy washy --- I'll promise you and myself this much. I'll see how next weekend goes, and then I'll have the talk with him about our relationship. If he can't be exclusive, then at that time, I will break it off and go back to NC. I think part of what has confused me are the concepts in How to Get Your Lover Back --- because many of the concepts have really really helped me, but one of them is hard to accept (allowing your ex to continue to see other people for a while if he or she is confused). The author says that making ultimatums and demands are not the way to go, and that they are among the common mistakes that rejected lovers make. It's made me think that maybe the way I've been thinking about fidelity, commitment, etc. is just too early for this 4-month relationship.
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Well, then I guess one way for me to look at this is that just like him, I'll have the sex --- and in the meantime I'll be looking for another job and packing my stuff in boxes and getting ready to get out of town --- because I really think that's the only way for me to stay away from him. I know few people here (it's a small town, and the pickings are few, if you know what I mean), and I'm lonely as hell, and I came to depend heavily on P. for my emotional support. I did start seeing a counselor today, by the way, and I'm on two new meds to help me with depression and anxiety, so maybe I'll be thinking more clearly and will be more able to make good decisions soon. At least I can take some comfort in knowing his ex-wife is doing the same kind of stupid stuff I've done, only worse because she calls and cries and begs and comes knocking on the door even when I'm at his house. I suspect he messed up and slept with her during the holidays and feels very guilty about that where I'm concerned, but this is all supposition. I know he's not seeing her now. In his defense, he told me the other night when we were on our date and about to go back to my house, "You know, T., I can take you back to your car and we don't have to do anything. I wanted to see you because I missed you, not because I was looking for some sex." He does have feelings, and I think the whole thing is awkward and hard for him, too. He has said many times that I am a lady --- but you have to remember that he was married for a long time and then it fell apart, and his heart was broken. Also, before me he was seeing other women who were willing to do the "friendly" sex. This whole commitment thing is very new, on the heels of a painful divorce, and he really does just feel that he is not ready. I don't know, guys --- thanks for helping me to think it through and know that I am truly listening and will not just throw what you've said out the window.
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I hear you. I'm weak where he's concerned --- and I don't know if you've seen my other posts related to this, but the situation is complicated by my fellow's sexual problems. He has some pretty significant problems and feels very insecure about it, takes Viagra and all that (and it doesn't make a lot of difference), so part of the problem is he's afraid of being left, so he does the leaving first. In case you're wondering, I'm 99% sure he will have this problem with any woman; it's not because he's not attracted to me. He's very aroused by me, in a heartbeat. He worries all the time about whether he's "satisfying me" and even says so during the sex. Also, I'm so tired of moving on to yet another man and trying again. Can you see how that makes me feel just as used and horrible, when the relationship fails? I really and truly am about to give up dating altogether rather than try this again.
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I do think it's a good sign that he is willing to travel with me for the weekend to see my daughter and my mother; surely that reveals a certain willingness to be on a different level with me. I think I am at least going to go ahead with the weekend plans, and then talk to him about what we are going to do or not do.
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To answer a few of the questions (and horrified gasps): We were exclusive for 4 months, and then he kind of went wacko over the holidays because of his ex-wife's pleading and his son's wanting his parents back together. I was shocked and devasted when he pulled back from me, but I kind of brought it on myself because when I sensed him pulling back, I told him that he was not obligated to me unless his heart obligated him to me --- and I still mean that. What good is an obligation for obligation's sake? I hoped, of course, that he would find that his heart does obligate him. Look --- I just love this guy and I want to save the relationship, and I'm a little overwhelmed by my feelings and by my loneliness and by the suddenness of these choices I'm being forced to make. I did no contact for two weeks, hoping he would come back, and he has --- and we've only had two dates since then (one dinner, one lunch --- and yes, some sex), and we haven't talked about the relationship. I'm just assuming he is either: 1)thinking we can do this thing casually or 2) re-thinking whether he wants a life without me in it and whether he's willing to commit to an exclusive relationship. I know I'm in a terrible place. PLease be patient with my self-esteem problems; I do know what I'm worth. It's just that we were really happy, and I miss what we had together. I'm wanting it back and trying to make it happen, I guess.
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But I'm going to be thinking about what you've advised, and I'm definitely going to address the issue with my ex at some point. I'll just have to get my courage up to tell him exactly how this makes me feel, I guess.
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Well, wait a minute. I get the sex, too. And I'm totally not interested in having sex with anyone else. And he was committed to me for four months (exclusive), so he can be. His ex-wife came along and did a lot of crying and pleading and begging and got him confused, thinking he was wrong to be divorced because of their son, etc. This was when he pulled back from me (and from her, by the way) and thought he just needed to have no relationship at all. I know what you are all saying is true, but I do get something out of this relationship, even if it isn't everything I want right now.
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Okay --- so the ex and I are apparently going to be spending time together, dating, sleeping together, etc. but without any commitment. He wants to be free to date other people, and I don't want to see anybody but him. That's the bottom line. And I have to decide if I can accept things this way. I know I can't accept it long term, but I might be able to manage it for maybe three months and give him a chance to re-think the situation. I was planning to move away this summer anyway, if we didn't work out, because I don't want to be where he is, in the same little town, if we're not together. So maybe I should just play things his way until then, and then head out of town and try to forget him if nothing changes by this summer. The thing is, I would never have agreed to this in the past. It goes against my values and makes me feel undervalued and underappreciated. I think it insults me. For instance, it makes me feel ill to think of him with someone else, and if it doesn't make him ill to think of me with someone else, well doesn't that mean he doesn't love me? On the other hand, should I even expect someone who has known me for only four months to love me? Blaise Harris, author of How to Get Your Lover Back, says that if the long-term goal is a committed love bond, it doesn't do any good to cut the relationship off completely or make demands that the ex stop seeing other people. He does say that we should not live with the person unless he stops seeing other people --- but if we are just dating, then we kind of have to accept that the person is trying to figure out what he wants and that he has the right to choose who he will love. I don't know. Any thoughts on "seeing other people"?
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I loved the lyrics. I need to print those out and put them up in my office. I saw the therapist today, and it was more or less just an assessment period. She sees my alcohol use as more of a problem than the relationship issues and wants me to work on that, so we really didn't get deep into the whole thing with P. yet. I can tell she wants me to forget him because he drinks and uses some drugs occasionally; she thinks together we are a real problem. On a more positive note, she gave me a project: "My Goals for Therapy," and I am working on that. Here are some of my goals: Take the middle ground on some things --- don't be of the all or nothing persuasion. Emphasize the positive. Believe that there is a solution to my problem(s). Drink less alcohol. Worry less. Work on feeling hopeful, capable, caring, creative, and content rather than fearful, lonely, anxious, and depressed. Work on feeling more energetic and relaxed (at appropriate times) rather than restless, nervous, shaky, and tired.
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BigJim, I'll just offer you the advice I've read about forty billion times now in How to Get Your Lover Back. I'm paraphrasing: When you have had plenty of time to create pleasant memories with your ex and you begin to feel that you are taken for granted, always the one waiting, etc. it's time to try the Loving Take-Away. You don't deny her requests for time together, but you just make yourself a little less available. She must know that while you are waiting for her, your life will go on. The best evidence of this is that you continue to go out, have a social life, and take care of yourself physically. Your love is still obvious, but it becomes more subtle.