maybe it's time

Hi,

I'll try and be as concise as possible.

The background:

My wife and I have been married for 26 years. (I am 50). We have two grown children (21,24) who live at home while they finish graduate school. Over the course of our marriage we have had the usual arguments, disagreements, etc. Physically, there has been little between us. In fact, there were times where we've gone nearly a year without intimacy. Up until about a year and a half ago, she was a stay at home mom. We have lived with her parents in a basement apartment in their house for our entire marriage. (this has been problematic too but not the complete cause of my unhappiness). However, for the past 4 or 5 years things have changed. I am no longer in love with her. I have read hundreds of articles about how this is a 'phase' that people, especially in middle age, go through. I don't think it's a phase since it's how I've felt for a number of years. We tried going away for some romantic weekends but that didn't change how I feel. She has recently been more physical but I am not attracted to her in that way. We are always together. She doesn't drive so if she needs needs to go anywhere, I drive. She is very capable of driving but chooses not to. I do not have any friends that I 'hang out' with. I did when we first got married but that became a problem. Last year, I told her that I think we should separate for a while and that didn't go very well. I explained that I was unhappy and needed some time away to sort things out. She said that I was selfish, didn't love our kids, didn't care about the kids and that I have ruined her self esteem. I felt so guilt that I did not leave. There is always tension in the house - it's palpable. We have had many discussions which included her rehashing all the things she's done for 'my kids' as she raised them. I get that - she did a lot. But I didn't sit on the couch drinking beer watching it all happen. I've worked as many as three jobs at once to provide for my family. I don't smoke, drink, or abuse her. I vacuum, do laundry, wash dishes, prepare meals. I have coached my kids' sports teams and have been very active in raising them. However, I am still very unhappy and want to separate. I will still support her financially. I will explain this to my children as well. They are adults. I don't want to bash my wife but I feel that I need to separate and see where we go from here. I'm I being a selfish bastard? (she says I am) I know separation and/ or divorce rubs a lot of people the wrong way. But living in unhappy marriage, to me, is worse. Thoughts?

I hope this makes sense. Please ask any clarifying questions.

I'm I being a selfish bastard?

No darling you are not . I am not going to harp on about giving it another go , going to therapy etc etc , it sounds like you have genuinly come to the end as sad as it is , this happens .

It happens. Love doesn't always last a lifetime. Just take the time to be absolutely sure this is what you want.

I can see why you're probably having problems. You are probably the sole source of her social life, since she doesn't drive. That's probably suffocating to you since she doesn't have her own life of girlfriends she hangs out with, and no hobbies outside the home. You are probably grouchy since you've worked as much as 3 jobs to feed the family. I don't get why she couldn't work the full 8 hours the kids were in school. Perhaps if she did, your family could afford to live elsewhere. You say she didn't want you hanging with guys early on. If a person doesn't go overboard, friends certainly are important for a fulfilling life. She says you ruined her self esteem. I'm sure you've made mistakes on handling the stress.

I don't know if you're at the point that things can be saved or not. Perhaps you're done and there is no getting back an emotional connection, but I think it's worth a try before you throw in the towel. What would I do? Attend marital counseling to get the skills you two need to work on communication, and give you homework to improve the relationship. I would tell her you'd like her to contribute to the household by working. If she doesn't want to drive, she can take public transportation if that's an option. Retirement is expensive, and wouldn't it be great to afford a place for you two to live in for the remainder of your lives.

You two should take up a hobby together, plus a hobby each that you do separately. She needs to know that you two are not joined at the hip, and a little time apart makes you a well rounded person who has some separate interests. Go on double dates with another couple. Join link removed with her where people meet up for hiking, kayaking, bowling, etc. Buy some massage oil and give each other back rubs/foot rubs. Make a rule that there will be no more bashing of things brought up from the past. When an argument is over, it should no longer be rehashed in the future. Don't call each other names while arguing. Read books like Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus, and The Five Love Languages. If you start treating each other well, maybe your sexual urges toward each other will return.

If you try all of these things, maybe they'll work. If they don't, at least you know you pulled out all of the stops before calling it quits. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Some of what you say has mirrored me. I've been with my wife for 33 years now. So I'd pretty much be preaching to the choir on most of your issues. At one point my marriage went cold. I planned the entire breakup... from how I was going to tell her I was going to leave, why I was going to leave, I had the finances figured out, had a new residence for me figured out, the divorce figured out... I wouldn't have mattered if the process got ugly or not - I had it figured out.

Then I stopped and looked at this lady I had been with for well over two decades and decided to rethink the issue. I kind of went into a mental hole, not saying much, just doing my usual routine of things... I broke open the photo albums and the memories of our life together came back. Then I realized that I was trying to make her fit into what I thought the kind of wife she should be to me. That's not right... She is an individual, she has her quirks that I think she should fix, but why? So she can be what I want her to be? What I expect her to be in my mind? Honestly, that wouldn't be fair to her. I know darn well that there are things about me that she would like to change too. I hate the word "selfish," but that's what it really was - I was selfish.

So I decided to look at the things that I loved or liked about her and focused on them instead to the negative things about her or our relationship. Then I took a good look at myself and how I treated her. Instead of me being the patient husband, I was more along the lines of an overbearing schmuck, sometimes rude, sometimes insensitive, and sometimes I didn't even care about anything in her life. Then I realized that she really did want me and that she really did love me. In my mind, she didn't love me the way I thought she should love me. If you really think about that - it sounds really stupid. So I made her the "Queen" of my life. I started treating her like a queen regardless of how she treated me (which was generally decent anyway). No more being an insensitive jerkoid, holding her hand when we walk anywhere... Quite simply - I put my focus on her and expanded that out to our kids and then grandkids.

Fast forward to the present... Things are not perfect, but our relationship as husband and wife is much, much better. She still has her quirks, I still have my quirks, things aren't perfect, but I don't care. She's there for me, I'm there for her, we love each other and I really can't imagine myself leaving her just because she isn't being the wife I think she should be. She is who she is and I love her for who she is. Hell, she loves me and that's a pretty tough thing to do at times.

At any rate... I wish you the best. I'll recommend counseling of some sort. That might help your situation.

Thank you for all the responses. Some further information. I have tried holding hands, cuddling, etc before (several years ago) but now I just don't want to do that. I have no feelings (or maybe have blocked them out) Honestly, I'm not sure how much I was in love with her when we got married or 'convinced' to marry with the help of her mother. I know I sound selfish and maybe there's some underlying resentment - I don't know. Her parents are the same way. He drives, she doesn't (although she is capable). He doesn't have any friends, drives her everywhere, they do everything together. It's not what he wants, it's what she wants. I once asked him why he doesn't do what he wants and he said it's not worth it. Meaning, not worth listening to her tirade and making his life miserable. See a pattern here? When I told my wife how I felt it was just thrown back in my face. "You have no right to feel this way". I have read hundreds of articles on separating/ divorce, talked to two mediators who said to separate, etc. I am not looking to be with anyone else - just want to find myself (sounds selfish again, I know)

Hi,

 

Last year, I told her that I think we should separate for a while and that didn't go very well. I explained that I was unhappy and needed some time away to sort things out. She said that I was selfish, didn't love our kids, didn't care about the kids and that I have ruined her self esteem. .

So, you are saying that when you opened your heart to her, she emotionally manipulated you, guilt tripped you, and blamed you for her own personal issues? What a gem.

Are you so sure she loves you? IMVHO, someone who really loves still might have been upset, HOWEVER she was saying and asking all the wrong questions. She should have been asking why you felt that way? How long have you felt that way? What could she do to help? What do you both need to work on to save the marriage?

She sounds very much to me like she wants her "pretty little picture"- She wants the status of being married, the father of her children with her, the status of "intact". rather than YOU.

It really sounds like you have tried and she is unwilling to meet you halfway. Stop being so hard on yourself. Marriage means two. BOTH people have to be happy in order for it to be a real marriage.

The truth is that if you really want out, she can't stop you. It is never selfish to care about being happy. It sounds like you have really been there for her and the kids, but she has not really been there for you.

I can understand why you would fall out of love. It happens. It does not make you selfish, it makes you human.

Who cares what other people think? If they want to live forever in an unhappy, unloving and unfulfilling marriage, then they can. Nobody lives your life but you.

Believe me, I understand the struggle. I went through a divorce, it was difficult, but in hindsight my only regret is not having done it sooner. I wasted years that I could have been happy.

If I were you, I would divorce her, no question.

Please think about this. If one of your kids came to you with your situation and said, " Dad, I am desperately unhappy in my marriage. I have tried it all, and nothing changes."

What would you tell them? "Stay unhappy to placate society", " Stay and be miserable with someone who doesn't even care enough about you to ask why YOU were feeling this way"

Or would you say, " Only you know what is best for you. You need to ultimately do what is going to make you happy. You only live one life, and you should try to spend it being as happy as possible"

I am not against therapy per se, but honestly, because of your wife's reaction to the separation, I truly don't believe she would try to change. It sounds to me like her tactic would be to blame you for everything and call you names. So, you can sit in a room and waste your money listening to your wife be unloving and disrespectful, but it won't help the marriage.

Thanks redswim30. Your analogy with my children makes sense. It's the guilt keeping me there. Guilt of disappointing my kids and failing at a marriage. I do want to be happy and honestly believe leaving would make me happy. Just taking that first step is so damn hard.

It is always so sad to hear of a marriage that has dwindled down to this. It sounds like you are just surviving and not just you but your wife as well. She doesn't sound happy either but is content to keep things as they are.

Rewriting history by saying "I don't know how much I loved her ever" is not good. You made choices back then and need to take responsibility for them and not question your love during your marriage. You have a problem that has been building for years and years and has finally come to the point where you would rather live alone the rest of your life than stay married. Does that sound about right?

Are you selfish to want to be happy? to be wanted sexually? to have an intimate relationship with hugs and cuddling? to feel like the woman you are with appreciates you and feels lucky to be with you?

This isn't like you have a pretty good thing going here and your marriage hit a short term low spot and you are out looking for a replacement or a woman on the side. You have years of a loveless marriage with a wife that doesn't seem to want to help make it better. You are isolated (no friends) and she has focused on the kids that are now all grown up and don't need her as much.

Once the children leave I see this getting worse not better.

Be warned divorce sucks and it is costly, not just in financial terms. If you feel like you have exhausted all your options and if you truly do not love her anylonger than staying would be worse than divorce.

Keep posting as you work towards the end of your marriage.

Lost

Thanks redswim30. Your analogy with my children makes sense. It's the guilt keeping me there. Guilt of disappointing my kids and failing at a marriage. I do want to be happy and honestly believe leaving would make me happy. Just taking that first step is so damn hard.

Having been through it, I completely understand the fear. But staying out of guilt is not good, either. Marriage does not have to be a failure for ending. After all, some beautiful children resulted from it.

Sometimes it takes a stronger person to say, "it was wonderful while it lasted, but what we had is the past, not the future". than to just stay out of fear and complacency. Your wife probably doesn't even realize how miserable she is, but is too afraid of change and the unknown to accept the truth.

Remember, you make a statement to your children by leaving something bad for something better too. You show them that it is possible to change your life for the better, even if it is difficult. To me, that's a great lesson. My parents are a couple that stayed together just to stay together. It is physically painful to witness how much they have grown to truly despise each other and how unhappy these two people I love have made themselves. Conversely, my current husband has kids from his first marriage. He was scared. And though he kids found it difficult at first, they have come to respect his choice more and more over time. In fact, now that the kids are adults, guess what? They have point blank said to him that they can now recognize that it is okay to leave a situation that isn't working out for you or making you happy- Be it a relationship, a job, an educational path, or anything else that is not in their long term best interest.

Fear is a powerful motivator. But so is love. Let me put this to you as well, do you do your wife any real favors by lying to her or by letting her manipulate you? Do you really do your kids any favors by playing out a charade. Do you honestly think your kids don't realize how bad things are? Chances are, if they are intelligent adults, they have an inkling at the very least.

Remember, often times the right thing to do is not the easiest. Good luck to you. I've been there, feel free to PM me anytime.

I tried to find the pm area but i don't think I have permission to PM

You need to post about 10 times to be able to private message someone I think.

redswim30 - how do I PM you? I'd like to ask you a few questions if you don't mind.

"We have lived with her parents in a basement apartment in their house for our entire marriage."

- Holding hands, cuddling, etc., won't fix this.

"We have lived with her parents in a basement apartment in their house for our entire marriage."

- Holding hands, cuddling, etc., won't fix this.

Hi Lester,

Can you elaborate?

ok. Need words of encouragement. Was going to have the 'separation' talk the other day but she had to work the next day and I didn't want her to have to worry about going to work the next day after I told her. She's not working tomorrow so I want to do it tonight. Any advice? I don't want to have it at our home because her parents are there and I know they'd be dragged into it. Just going to go out and stop somewhere. Really don't have any other options. Just want to get it done. I know I'll be happier after.

Also, how is the best way to begin the conversation? 'Im not happy and I need some space...'?

Update: had the conversation tonight. Started with 'I'm not happy and want some space...' Before I finished the sentence, she said fine, got out of the car without her shoes or pocketbook and walked home. Sh%#show. I stuck to it though but of course I feel like a complete f##%^*+ ass>#%#.

It will be hard but when you know, you know. I am at that point too. Only about 6 days out from having the separation talk. I'm trying to find a place to live. He tried to beg me for a while and was in denial. Now he's trying to accept it. When the love is gone it's hard to get it back. Especially when you've just down that emotional side toward them. I know because that's where I am. I have no desire to mend this. I am done. I don't want to settle anymore. I want someone who really craves and desires me and who I feel the same about. That when the everyday is normal we still can have fun and enjoy our time together . I haven't felt that with my current husband

There is no easy way to tell the other person you want a divorce. No matter how you say it the pain and rejection is always there.

Try and put yourself in her shoes and have as much empathy for her as possible. You have known this was coming for some time but for her it was the bomb that just got dropped.

Allow what you said to sink in for a while and try and talk again. She will be angry and hurt but may not show it. She may act like she thinks it is a good idea and close up on you. Give her space and time to understand what this really means and get a handle on just how much her life is about to change.

At this time it is important to not focus on the future and the possibilities of what may happen and take care of right now. By that I mean you need to remember that you are ending this because you are not happy and have tried to make things better but nothing has worked and now you need to work on bringing this marriage to an end in the most respectful and caring way possible and then you can start making plans for the future. You owe her that much.

Thoughts of the single life, dating and meeting someone new that you can be happy with should be the last thing on your mind for a while. Once the divorce is over, you have begun to rebuild your life into what you want it to be and rediscovered the person you kind of lost during the marriage then it is safe to think about bringing someone else into your life. That way they get the real you, not some guy that has been starved for affection and companionship.

Keep posting and please try and take the high road no matter what she throws at you. In the end it will take you to a better place.

Lost

Update: had the conversation tonight. Started with 'I'm not happy and want some space...' Before I finished the sentence, she said fine, got out of the car without her shoes or pocketbook and walked home. Sh%#show. I stuck to it though but of course I feel like a complete f##%^*+ ass>#%#.

Yikes, sorry she can't be a grown up. But it's all the more reason to get out of such an unhealthy relationship, where you can't even express yourself without fear of retribution.

Hang in there. You started it, and it's bound to be challenging. Don't feel like you have done anything wrong. It's not a crime to want a divorce, and by all definitions and standards, it appears that you have really tried hard to make the marriage work. But you can't do it alone, and she clearly seems unwilling to even deal with anything honest.

No one can ask for more. You never HAVE to stay in any relationship. It's choice. Don't let her make you feel like it isn't. Wanting to be happy isn't selfish, it's honest.

Stay strong. I'm here if you need me.