B/f Going Away Again. Part 2

[hope123]

dako,

 

sent you the links.

 

I just feel like i have a right to be there with all the stuff that goes on..i havent brought it up b/c i didnt want to get into an argument, we were having a nice time together..i feel like it shouldnt be an argument though.

[shoebaby1]

I am sorry Hope123

[Dako]

I checked out the links and it's something I'd look at for a while, shaking my head, but I'd wander off to some other diversion.

 

It looks like some stuff I've seen, but I can understand your concern.

The women are showing off for the cameras, probably drunk, and the boob flashers are pretty mild. Some are just enjoying the attention.

 

If you don't trust your guy, it's a problem beyond this stuff.

 

Keep in mind the size of these rallies. In a crowd of almost 500,000 people at Sturgis, the cameras are focused on the most outrageous few.

[hope123]

A few of my friends agree with me that i am his g/f..not some girl he is dating and have been with him long enough to say...this isnt a camping trip(like a guys trip)..plenty of women go simply b/c their partner is going and i really would like to go..maybe i will bring it up sometime this week rather than this weekend..we were having a nice time together.

[Dako]

You might have a great time. It's a bike rally, not an orgy.

[Batya33]

A few of my friends agree with me that i am his g/f..not some girl he is dating and have been with him long enough to say...this isnt a camping trip(like a guys trip)..plenty of women go simply b/c their partner is going and i really would like to go..maybe i will bring it up sometime this week rather than this weekend..we were having a nice time together.

 

It's far easier - and safer - to focus on some objective statement of "my rights as his girlfriend" then to explore the underlying issues of trust you have with him. Sure, it might go well, this statement of your "rights" but it will do nothing to solve the underlying problem - which will come up again and again because you do not trust him.

[hope123]

Batya

 

why wouldnt you be ok with a man going to this event or finding such an event fun..i am guessing it has some part of it to do with the girls there and they do..

 

i really dont know many honestly who would say to their b/f..alright go ahead, enjoy the scenary and partying..i just really dont know many girls who would be ok with their b/f going there even though they trust them on a daily basis.

[Batya33]

In my personal standards, values, what I believe in - I am done dating men who are overgrown frat boys - and have been done with that for awhile. So, if a man found it fun to spend a week of his vacation in a spring break environment with partying, excessive drinking, exhibitionist people, etc we would not have enough in common for a long term relationship.

 

It would have something to do with trust but would mostly have to do with what I look for in friends and relationships - I am not into the drinking/partying/clubbing scene and even when I was more so - in my teens to mid 20s - I never got drunk, never tried an illegal drug and even then wasn't so into being the girlfriend of someone who was too involved with that. I had scary situations with boyfriends being drunk or high and I got bored quickly hanging out with people whose main idea of fun was to get drunk/stoned.

 

When it comes to motorbikes, I would not want to be in a relationship with a man who was into motorbikes to the extent he would go to a rally like that - I find motorbikes too dangerous and if - that is if - the environment at the rally is as you described it (there has been disagreement on the thread) - that person would not have enough in common with my idea of fun and appropriate behavior.

 

Again, these are my personal standards - if a man wanted to go away without me for a week to an environment like that I would question whether he is ready to be in a serious relationship leading to marriage and family with me - which is the only reason I date. Perhaps he would be a good spouse for a woman who was also interested in those hobbies/activities, but not for me.

 

Right now my bf and I are long distance. He socializes with his colleagues at a local bar about once a week for happy hour. I am sure there are single women there and I am also sure he would not behave inconsistently with our agreement to be exclusive. I also am sure that he doesn't drink too much. I don't check up on him, don't ask him details other than "did you have a good time?" I trust him, period so I don't feel the need to ask. He feels the same about me.

 

So, no, I wouldn't be happy if my bf wanted to go away for a week in a spring break environment - but I would have known that about him likely within the first month of dating if not sooner. I find out what the person likes to do for fun, I learn about the types of people he associates with and considers his friends, and I listen carefully to what he says and how he behaves. I also share my values, standards, what I like to do for fun, etc. It is unlikely that I would be faced with an issue like that once I was already the "girlfriend."

[hope123]

I'm glad you have high values.

 

My b/f rarely goes out without me so finding out about this last year was a big blow..and i still loved him so it was hard to say ok its over..i am just hoping he doesnt say no you are not going even with your own money..doing that is weird right?

[Batya33]

I have values - whether they are high or not I don't know - I do what feels right to me when it comes to standards and values. You have to do your own internal work of deciding what is acceptable to you or not - so far you have refused to do that, instead looking to outsiders to tell you what is right or wrong, acceptable or unacceptable.

 

I have ended relationships (usually ones shorter than yours) based on one incident of behavior I found unacceptable or offensive - it just depended on the seriousness, and I balanced the pros and cons - you should do that for yourself, too. In your case you need to analyze - why he is saying no, whether on his end he feels controlled or monitored/not trusted by you and you need to decide whether in your personal opinion his concerns are valid and consistent with your values and standards.

 

Three times in the past 5 years I ended short dating relationships because the behaviors were those that I would not want in a husband - they included (these are all different men)- getting drunk in front of me and his parents and treating me rudely/inconsiderately/discovering that the person had an anger disorder he wasn't getting help for/learning that he still liked going to strip clubs and that he considered getting a lap dance appropriate behavior while in a relationship.

 

I also ended a relationship of two months in part because he was too possessive and controlling from early on about what I did when not with him (we were not exclusive).

 

Please don't take the easy way out - do the work of figuring out your own values and standards and act accordingly. Decide whether it is worth it to you - if it comes to this - to be in a relationship with someone with incompatible values/standards rather than be on your own. I have always chosen the latter- what about you?

[hope123]

i guess its hard to decide because aside from this..he hasnt really done anything..like losing his temper where i was scared of him or him treating my family bad..i never really have even seen him drunk before..maybe a couple he was buzzed but he never treated me any way that i thought was wrong. Its this one thing i dont know what to do..like i feel like i shouldnt break up over it BUT i feel if a partner really wants to go to this event, as his g/f i should be welcome to go.

I think i will eventually have to say it..if he says yes..great..if he says no...i will have to show him the pics.

[Batya33]

I don't think you should think about it as breaking up with him over just one incident - if you believe that he will act according to those values in other situations, then it might be something you want to think about and decide whether you can live with it.

 

What I would do if he is not eager to have you there - spend the money on a trip to club med for the week. Do not cheat on him of course but nicely tell him that it made you realize you need a vacation too.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

plenty of people, including busloads of old ladies and men, love to go to Vegas and gamble and watch shows full of almost naked showgirls... and lots of guys go to strip clubs with their buddies all the time, and their girlfriends/wives may or may not be offended.

 

the point being, some people just like the spectacle of things like bike rallies, or he likes hanging out with his buddies and doing some serious partying a couple times of a year and doesn't want to make it a 'couples' event...

 

if he wants to cheat, he will do it anywhere, even in your own bed if you're not home if he wants to... it happens all the time. and just because he sees that stuff going on, doesn't mean he cheats, though that is always a possibility.

 

i think the real issue is that you want him to be someone who is also offended by the biker rally spectacle, and obviously it is something he really enjoys because he does it all the time, and sounds like he has no intention of stopping.

 

so you either have to accept that this is something he wants to do, and sees nothing wrong with it, in fact enjoys it, and find something else fun to do for yourself while he is gone at these rallies. or tell him you'd like to go down and meet him sometimes, and if you're truly still disgusted with what you see, then maybe you two are not right for each other because your value systems are so different.

[Honey Pumpkin]

Hope, I've read this thread with interest, and I am going to be quite honest with you - I wouldn't like my bloke going to this rally, BUT your boyfriend sounds like a nice guy overall. I think it's fine. I think he wants to hang out with his bike buddies, and talk bikes for a week. I think it sounds pretty dull to be honest, because I don't like bikes! I think he'll go, have a nice time being all manly and macho and fiddling with bikes, and come back to you having been faithful. I think he'll find the girls who flash their boobs funny, but like Dako he will steer clear as it not being for him.

 

There you go - a categorical answer from me about this issue, lol! Let him go, and trust him. It'll be a great step forward for you, he'll be relieved you're not making a scene, and perhaps the two of you should plan a break away together somewhere a bit more romantic?

 

Take care!

[caro33]

Hope, I am intrigued that this thread just keeps going! You have received some great advice from a number of people, and some real food for thought. You have also, I think, heard some comforting things about what to expect if your boyfriend does end up going alone.

 

I can't help but wonder where your thinking has gone to this point - your posts portray you are going around in circles on the same issues.

 

If we just take what looks to be your key question of "but aren't I justified in feeling this?" and for the sake of argument say "yes, you are", then what are you going to do?

 

Will you at least start to manage your anxiety by finding out (a) if he plans on going anyway, and which one he's going to, and (b) what he thinks of the activities there and what are his impressions of the wilder behaviour? It's just my opinion but I would think that this is a good starting point for you and doesn't involve you having to have arguments or make decisions that involve breaking up.

 

Please find out what you are dealing with here before deciding it's an extreme situation and you have to attend it to monitor him. No wonder you are confused, you are trying to choose between the extremes of (a) arguing and going, which is bad from a relationship perspective and (b) not discussing the rally or possibility of a rally at all, which must be very worrying to you.

 

There ARE other, more mid-spectrum tactics to use here to manage your situation in smaller increments.

 

(By the way, please assume the usual arguments made to you about knowing your values and trusting your man still apply. These are key aspects of managing your own behaviour that you cannot continue to ignore unless you want to keep coming back here anxious about future things.)

[Getting Better]

I have read through all these post on this topic and felt that i need to do a reply. I think hope that you have jealousy problems which you need to deal with and you that you are not secure in yourself as a person. I used to have really big jealousy problems didn't like my ex looking at other girls, porn, couldnt stand the thought of him seeing a stipper not that he used to look at porn or watch stippers, but i used to worry about all these, even page threes, we split up for reasons. I went in to thearpy as i have depression and wanted to get better and get rid of my jealousy as its not good. Now i don't get jealous, the man who iam currently seeing has a porn collection im not bothered, we went out there was podium dancers doing the splits lol, it didn't bother me, at the end of the day the guy is with me and goes home with me. If he wanted to see a stipper i wouldn't be bothere, its only looking,

 

But as far as this bike rally is concerend i have to agree with you, i dont think its right for a man to go on his own with out his gf when there are all these naked women there, i went and watched a video and it looks like a porn shoot not a biking rally. There is no need for these women to take all there clothes off and perform sexual acts, its not a porn shoot, Topless women yeah nothing wrong with that, but these are so over the top and i know in england where i come from my friends would not put up with their bf or husbands going to these kind of events, as far as im aware they are no where as bad as they are in america, is this an america thing where girls have no respect for them selfs at these places. Is everyone that has replied to this topic from america or is there anyone from england.

[caro33]

...is this an america thing where girls have no respect for them selfs at these places. Is everyone that has replied to this topic from america or is there anyone from england.

 

Many people are from the US, but not all. I, for instance, am from Australia. But I'm not sure you can generalise like this. English girls have their own reputation when in certain circumstances, as I'm sure Australians etc also do.

 

I think people have already said this, but note that misbehaving seems to occur in booze fuelled situations BECAUSE the cameras are there. And Dako mentioned that the cameras will not be photographing boring stuff - they will also be drawn to the action. So what looks like behaviour that characterises the event in question might in fact be the one horny place that most people roll their eyes at.

 

The photos may not in any way accurately reflect the environment that hope123's boyfriend puts himself in, even if the wild behaviour occurs at the same event. This needs to be cleared up by him.

 

Hope it may be that you show him the photos and he laughs and hugs you and says it's not like that at all, and he thinks these girls are skanks, and that he just likes to talk bikes. Give him a chance to defuse this situation before you go in all guns blazing with having to attend to police him. Keep in mind that it might not be in your own interest to go - you may be bored beyond incomprehension, or maybe intimidated etc.

[Batya33]

I am not sure where anyone said that the women who go to these bike rallies are all americans (referring to Gettingbetter's post) or that even if they are, that they were born here.

[caro33]

I am not sure where anyone said that the women who go to these bike rallies are all americans (referring to Gettingbetter's post) or that even if they are, that they were born here.

 

A good point! I say blame the backpackers, it's what we do here .

[BeStrongBeHappy]

hey... i'm chuckling over the idea that only americans would 'put up' or engage in this kind of lewd behavior... what about all those British prime ministers or house of lord's who get caught by the tabloids in scandals wearing women's stockings and lingerie and spanking each other in private sex clubs? and david beckham has been seen wearing a skirt and cheating on Posh when he was out of town...

 

men (and women) behaving badly when their partners aren't around is a universal thing i'm afraid...

[hope123]

hey

 

havent written in a day or so.

 

Well i pretty much spent most of the weekend with my b/f..we had a good time..but i didnt bring it up...i guess i am trying to hold out..like i want us to be having a good time so there are no bad feelings from a previous fight in order for me to bring up this topic...my feelings still have not changed.. i am just so afraid he will say no i dont want you there..whereas i still feel i have a right to be there with this kind of stuff going on..it just doesnt seem right..i guess i am hoping there wont be any problem.

[caro33]

whereas i still feel i have a right to be there with this kind of stuff going on..it just doesnt seem right..i guess i am hoping there wont be any problem.

 

Please read the past posts and reconsider your language:

 

1) "I still feel I have a right to be there" - no one is questioning your right to state what you want, but I would watch this language about your absolute rights. I think it was Batya that best addressed this in the previous posts. I also gave you some alternate language. This is about how you feel, not about some God given 'right'.

 

2) "With this kind of stuff going on" - you don't actually know what kind of stuff is going on, you don't even know if he's going, and to which one. Please find out before you get too righteous.

 

3) "It just doesn't seem right" - this is your statement of values, and fair enough. I think that you thinking this isn't right and not what you want is your key message for him, where he then decides his next step. You then negotiate an outcome, which might include breaking up.

 

4) "I am hoping there won't be any problem" - I think there will be if you do not look to adjust your approach here, but that's just my opinion.

[Batya33]

Or put yet another way, do you really want to be there only as a matter of "right" or because he wants you to be there?

[hope123]

well if i were speaking to him..i would change my language..(i know he is gonna go on bike trip just to let you know..he made it clear it will happen every year)..i would probably say...something like..did you mean it when you said if i really wanna go on a bike trip, just pay my own way and fly down..and then i would probably continue and say because i feel like we have been together for almost 2 years and we arent just dating and last year you went alone..i think i should be able to go with you without it being a problem especially since there are probably plenty of wives and g/f's who fly down and meet their partner.

 

I really still think if this convo ends badly..a few days later i will have to e-mail him the pics.

[Getting Better]

hi sorry i wasn't trying to say that all americans go to these bike ralleys, im sure there is people from many differnt countries that do, i was curious as to wether in different countries the attuides about things change. I know in england that mps are not innocent and there has been lots of stories about them.