B/f Going Away Again. Part 2

[Batya33]

It's not about "rights" or arguing your case. If you believe that your boyfriend's behavior is inconsistent with being in a relationship then you should share that thought with him. It is then his perogative to agree or disagree and you then have to decide whether you accept his decision or not.

 

I trust that my boyfriend would not cheat or put himself in a situation where there is the appearance of impropriety or a high risk that the other person will have the wrong impression - and for me that would include having a female friend sleep in his bed.

 

I think your argument that somehow your boyfriend does not understand why this trip makes you uncomfortable and needs to be told is covering up the more important issues and the ones you do not want to face. I also don't buy that you want to go so that you can "experience" it - given how upset you are at the pictures it doesn't sound to me like you want to experience it as opposed to control/monitor his behavior while he's there.

 

Watch the sex and the city where Samantha tries to keep tabs on her boyfriend while they are in atlantic city, because she doesn't trust him.

[hope123]

I have seen that episode..i dont think my case is that extreme where if i was at the same vacation spot as him and left him alone for a few hours, i'm not gonna wonder if he is doing some girl. lol

 

The thing is..where is the line drawn..b/c there can be many situations that can lead the person to having a bad impression..like going to a club..thats technically a singles scene..does that leave a bad impression and a person should not go there..am i justified with feeling this way with such an event?

[hope123]

such an event meaning this rally

[Hope75]

Hope75

 

I really wish i had your security then b/c i feel like trust cant go with every situation like...oh you have a girl who is just a friend staying over and is gonna sleep right next to you..its ok b/c i trust you..

 

I just feel like given the situation..a g/f or b/f has a right to say..i dont think this is right or appropriate to go as if you were single and that i should be able to go..not to be attached at the hip but just to be there to experience it as well.

 

Having a girl sleep in your boyfriend's bed with him is quite a bit different then him going to this rally. It seems now you are going to extremes.

 

To me, trust means that there are going to be some situations that I am not thrilled with (aka, a strip club, private batchelor party, etc) but even in those situations I can trust that my boyfriend may look, but that he respects himself, me and our relationship too much to take it past looking.

 

I liken it to going on spring break. He's going to see other women- they are going to be scantily clad and acting very silly. But do you trust your boyfriend? Regardless of the circumstances? Do you want to be with someone whom you constantly worry if he's cheating and feel you need to pay for plane tickets and follow him to this event to prevent him from cheating?

 

The comment you made about getting angry with him for looking at other drivers (women included) when he is driving- kind of shows me that you are being unreasonable and controlling with him. To him, it must feel suffocating. Heck, he admitted to you that the behavior is so bad that in the past he would have walked away from you alot sooner. Does hearing that scare you? Make you think?

 

Like Batya, I doubt you have any interest in going to this rally for the experience, but more to control/police what your boyfriend does while he is there. It really isn't any way to be in a relationship.

[Batya33]

Hope123 - you have to do the work of figuring out your personal standards and sticking to them rather than looking for answers from the outside. I would not like my bf going to a strip club other than for a bachelor party, others might be fine with it, others might be fine only with no strip clubs at all, some women are fine with their bfs having platonic women friends, others are not. It's far easier to have "rights" imposed on you from the outside but you become a stronger person if you figure out what your personal standards and values are and reevaluate them only if from a position of confidence you believe that you are being too strict or too permissive.

[hope123]

hope75

 

when you mentioned him looking at other women in the car and i was possibly being controlling...no i dont think i was...every time a girl was in his sight he would turn his head and look..i'm not saying he was drooling but to me it was way too excessive and not right if i am sitting next to him holding his hand.

I waited a long time to say something..to see if it was just me..but i still felt that way after a long period of time witnessing it.

[Hope75]

I would agree with Batya that perhaps it is best for you to decide what your own standards are for conduct in a relationship.

 

I feel that telling a guy he can't even look at another woman is controlling and possesive. Looking to me seems pretty harmless and I do it from time to time myself, and my bf isn't oggling every woman that walks by us. But he looks from time to time and I am OK with that. I think it is pretty natural behaviour to notice members of the opposite sex. That doesn't mean your boyfriend is going to leave you for someone he saw in a car next to him that was cute.

 

 

But again, as Batya said, you have to make your own decisions about what is acceptable to you in a relationship, and since you cannot change a person, if your boyfriend does not see eye to eye with you, it would seem to me that means that your relationship is incompatible.

[Batya33]

Looking is fine but acting disrespectful (which to me means ogling, making comments, staring, if done in front of you) is not fine. What about for you?

[hope123]

I think looking is gonna happen on both parts BUT when around each other..it think a person should have more control over themself..thereforeeee i think there is a huge difference between sometimes noticing someone when i am there with him compared to him turning his head CONSTANTLY when we were in the car together..i think that is wrong and that is my standard i guess..i think looking with your eyes would be a little more subtle and to just not make it so obvious.

 

But i dont want it to turn into this discussion...i am more concerned about this one and what it is that i should do..apart of me feels like i should be able to fly down there and meet him

[caro33]

Hiya hope, so where are you at right now? Looks like you've been going through some circular arguments internally - to mention or not to mention. The others are right, but we keep going through this stuff with you and I think the "you need your own standards" issue seems to be a problem.

 

Sweetheart, very few of us are solid and clear about our standards from Day 1. You create your internal standards over time, and generally based on such ephemeral things as "it feels bad if THIS happens, I don't like that". You are not likely to have some epiphany based on something one of us has said, like "oh YES! THAT"S how I'm supposed to feel" - it'll always be a more complex issue. I know that even at my age I still vacillate on whether one particular action my husband does is "bad enough" to react: do I forgive and forget a minor transgression, or is it a symptom of a more fundamental standard being bent out of shape?

 

I have found that the only thing that works for me is to take some time, to try and be responsible for not damaging the relationship by letting off steam before I've really tested my feelings. That sounds a bit like what you're trying here on ENA, but you're getting stuck on the "SHOULD I do this" aspect.

 

For me, I let the initial reaction wash over me, I then list to myself the various interpretations and I try all explanations on for size. I am a lister, as is probably obvious, but I tend to think this works. You get it all out and then evaluate as objectively as possible. I generally start to see that I am overreacting, then I think "okay, I'll let myself feel grumpy just a bit longer if I must, but I won't show how I feel and I will let it pass". And that's it. But if that same thing happens again, or even more times than just once more, I will think that maybe I should say something after all.

 

If I do have to say something, I then have that face-to-face calm chat that explains how I am reacting to things and let's him know the effect of whatever he's doing. Most of the time he had no idea what he was doing, and he either explains it to me and I accept it because it's not what I thought, or he says "sorry! I had no idea!" and he stops what he was doing. And that's it, done. At least most of the time.

 

Through all of this, neither of us was right or wrong, and I can promise you that if I polled everyone I know, I would have had some people agreeing with me and some vigorously disputing my reaction. It's never that cut and dried unless we're talking overt things like abuse, active betrayals etc. People have their own take on things, and there are also often various interpretations of others' behaviour.

 

So what we keep saying to you is that only you know how much a big deal this, or any other issue is, to you. There is a "I'm going to go mad, I can't deal with this" level of frustration and fear which, if it prevails no matter what you do to talk yourself out of it, you probably need to manage by telling your feelings to your guy. Set your standards and define your boundaries. Then there's a "I think I'm overreacting, maybe I can find a way to see this differently" approach that can work once the initial reaction has worn off and you are starting to think that you can probably trust him and not to worry.

 

But the thing is, like we have said, if you are at the point of saying something, you must be strategic in how you say it. Stick to your standards, be clear and upfront. Be fair and try to be generous in your assessments of his character - you are supposed to love him after all. Be open to compromise where that fits your core criteria. Give him the respect and give yourself the respect enough to deal with this in person, and at a time that you are both best able to have the conversation. The telephone is dangerous for this.

[hope123]

I think i need to be as patient as possible and bring this up in person at a good moment.

 

Caro,

 

do you think i am wrong for wanting to go and i guess kind of setting a standard that if he wants to go to an event like this, i should be able to be with him..not attached at the hip but part of the time?

[caro33]

My own personal reaction is that I would hate this situation, but I would also look to what happened the previous year, and remember everything was okay after that.

 

What I would do, probably, is ask him gently about the rally and be interested in what happens. I would say that I checked out the websites and had been surprised about some of the stuff I saw. I would ask him, once again, like a calm friend type question, not jealous girlfriend, "how much of that stuff really goes on?" If he just laughed and said he hated it and paid no attention, and/or if he said it was really only in some areas that he tended not to frequent, I would probably feel a lot better. I would probably just ask some more targetted questions and then have a think about it. If we had had major arguments and I was worried about smothering him, I probably would not say anything more. Actually, I might offer to meet him at some point there, say "hey it would be fun!" and see his response. If he acted shady I would go with the next para's option...

 

If, on the other hand, he said it was everywhere, and that the girls were "fun", I would probably be worried about what type of person he was and his level of commitment. Thing is, I would probably have known this about him to start with. It wouldn't come as a shock to me now, but I might have quietly been hoping he would change. I would ask more targetted questions about if he had ever been with one of those women before; I would ask what kind of "fun" he'd had when single. I might ask him if he thought he needed to behave differently now he is not single. If I was starting to get really worried, I might even put my foot down and remind him of my stance on getting close to other women. That I wouldn't tolerate it.

 

But that's as much as one can do, hope. Flying down there to police him will not necessarily make you feel any better.

[caro33]

I think i need to be as patient as possible and bring this up in person at a good moment.

 

Caro,

 

do you think i am wrong for wanting to go and i guess kind of setting a standard that if he wants to go to an event like this, i should be able to be with him..not attached at the hip but part of the time?

 

I don't personally agree with this in principle, but I do see where you are coming from. In my relationship I am used to being wanted when he goes places. In my previous relationships I was shut out, and sometimes for my ex to go to things that made me feel about as bad as you feel about this rally. So I get it.

 

Thing is, being in a relationship doesn't mean one necessarily gives up the "harmless" things one did when single. Not allowing your SO the time they need to recharge and do their own thing is a worrying precedent to set. It's not sustainable. This position you are suggesting you might take will breed resentment.

 

If YOU believe that your standard as above is what you want, then okay.

 

But if it's just a way of trying to assert control, I think you should look at the reality of how much control you can ever assert (which is to say, you can never protect against cheating) and also address the side-effects of asserting this control. I would not say to him that he can't go to this without you. I would say that it made me uncomfortable, and see how he describes what HE does when he's there. I might threaten to go to elicit a reaction, but I would not go if he did not want me to go. I would just be clear about what I expected of him when he's there. I might also communicate disappoinment, it's your prerogative to do that, but don't go all school teacher on him. You are supposed to be adults, making your own decisions. Part of your decision is if this is good enough for you or not.

 

So to sum up this and my other post, I would concentrate more effort on trying to discover how "harmless" this thing is. I would make it clear that it would need to be good harmless fun by MY standards for me to be okay with things. I would then let him make up his mind and be prepared to live with the consequences.

[hope123]

The thing is,

 

I dont know how "harmless" this thing is. What he considers harmless may not be my definition..it may seem like not a big deal for him for women to do this and it may to me..so his answer of, it doesnt happen too often or something..may not exactly be true if i saw it for myself.

 

Wouldnt the best way for me to get a feel for this event is to actually go to it but tell him..listen, you mentioned if i am really curious take my own money and fly down..i feel we have been together long enough where it should be ok for me to meet you there. What would be the big deal if i am willing to pay my own way? Why should this build resentment? If you are in a relationship, i feel like it should be ok to say and do this.

[caro33]

If that's all you say, it seems okay. Just don't get too strident or demanding if you can help it.

 

I'm not sure I agree that the only way you get a feel for the event is to go yourself, because we are coming back to that fundamental issue with you - you really need to trust him to some degree. Why not get HIS take on the thing? fact is, that matters more than your take anyway. If he doesn't want to cheat there is no problem.

 

I think you have your own definition of "non-harmless" that it is your job to make clear to him.

[caro33]

... Why should this build resentment? If you are in a relationship, i feel like it should be ok to say and do this.

 

My statement about building resentment was more about tone and choice of words maybe, together with the degree of control you are trying to exert.

 

Bad

 

"You shouldn't want to go to this without me".

 

"You shouldn't be able to go without me".

 

"I can't trust you when you are away from me" (I know you wouldn't say this, but it may well be the total message you send him based on your words and actions).

 

Better

 

"I was keen to get to know this rally thing a bit better, I thought it might be a good chance to share something you love with you. I had a look at the website "xxx"...[have conversation about what really happens etc, as I mentioned above]...Maybe I am overreacting, but that makes me really uncomfortable. I guess I don't like you being in that environment."

 

"Do you think I might come along? Even just for the end, that might be good"

 

"Well it's up to you, but I am not keen on you going. I don't think it sets a good standard for our relationship and I will be worried about things".

 

If you do feel strongly enough, you might even say "Your need to go to this doesn't sit with my view of where we should be going in our lives. You are free to go, but you need to understand that you doing this is causing me to re-evaluate our relationship. This is not where I want to be."

 

----

I don't like the last ones but I do think they're better than the bad ones up top.

[hope123]

The thing is..by telling him..oh this is causing me to reevaluate the whole relationship..almost threatening to break up..may not work on some people and my b/f is definitely not one to be threatened and he might take it as that..my b/f seems to be the stubborn person where if a g/f said..you do this or else its over..he would just say yeah ok..and that would be it..horrible as it sounds..this is how i think he is.

 

Caro,

I think some of your words sound great..i feel so impatient and actually nervous about bringing this up in person...Do you think its pathetic of me to be doing this..pretty much telling him, i want to be apart of this.

[SexySadie7]

Well.. i don't think you are being unreasonable. Yeah.. I think it's kinda disrespectful to you that he not only doesn't want you to go with him.. but insists everything is cool there. It's not.. i used to live near that area.. and yeah.. people do have a tendency to be wild in the bars, etc.

I would say.. hey... couldn't you go to a more mild mannered place.

[caro33]

The thing is..by telling him..oh this is causing me to reevaluate the whole relationship..almost threatening to break up..may not work on some people and my b/f is definitely not one to be threatened and he might take it as that..my b/f seems to be the stubborn person where if a g/f said..you do this or else its over..he would just say yeah ok..and that would be it..horrible as it sounds..this is how i think he is.

 

Caro,

I think some of your words sound great..i feel so impatient and actually nervous about bringing this up in person...Do you think its pathetic of me to be doing this..pretty much telling him, i want to be apart of this.

 

It's not pathetic at all, don't worry. Back yourself hope, you need to try and build more self-confidence. You are not thinking anything others wouldn't think - you have already had most of us saying we understand why you wouldn't like this.

 

Now I am not saying you THREATEN to break up. This is not a game plan in the sense of bluffing to get a response. That was merely one of my options for you based on how strongly you feel about this. If you aren't prepared to follow through on something you say, by all means, do NOT say it. You have to be able to live with whatever the consequences are for your words and actions.

 

You are going to be nervous, it's par for the course with these emotional issus, and you have also built this up a fair bit by now. But my core advice, as usual, is to do whatever you can to chill out and work out your own boundaries so you can be more confident in how you project yourself and communicate to your boyfriend. If you are sure in yourself what's fair and reasonable from your perspective, you will be calmer, more patient and better able to have a calm conversation. He might also understand you better.

[hope123]

hey

 

thanks everyone for your advice..i was sooo tempted to do it tonight caro, on the phone which i know is bad..i think i am used to having these things on the phone with him b/c i dont see him much due to distance.

 

But i didn't..and i was thinking maybe the best time to do it would be saturday or friday night when we are alone..and hopefully we will be having a good time where i can bring it up..im afraid of him saying no i dont want you to fly down. I feel as his girlfriend..he shouldnt have that right when its this type of event to tell me no..dont even use your own money to fly down..everytime i think of this whole thing, i get angry guys and upset

 

i dont want this to turn into a battle and then us not speaking for a day or two or even breaking up..i just want it to be easy..and if he says no..i will have to show him the pics like a day later..and say i am not comfortable and if you really wanna go while in a relationship, i want to see what its like as well..if the situation was reveresed you would feel somewhat the same as well. (he doesnt want me even hanging out with say my gf's guy friends at a bar..he would say well if you are in a group and there are guys, there is no reason for me not to be there..so he has things he is uncomfortable with as well. I know he trusts me but i think with certain things he is like..hmm i dont like this)

 

It was REALLY hard for me not to say anything b/c i want to get this off my chest and i am really worried about his reaction..

 

Another problem is WORK..i am looking for a new job..so if all goes well with my b/f and he says fly down..i would need information.. march is coming up so i think if he were going to that rally he probably would have booked it already right?..if its the one in the summer, and i am starting a new job and i am giving over 6 months notice and letting them know as soon as i get the offer that i need this week off..i am hoping that would be ok..i would imagine so if they offer it to me and i said that is great and then say i need to tell you this in advance...etc etc

[caro33]

Well good on you for not giving in to your need to force the issue, yes, wait until you get the chance to say this right and gauge his reaction face-to-face. This seems like a fragile time for the relationship so you need to treat any potential conflict extremely carefully.

 

I wouldn't think having some time off work would be a problem if it's a week or less and you let them know up front. I wouldn't tell them what it's for though.

 

So you don't know which rally it is? Have you discussed this at all with him or have you just assumed he's going to one? I think I was under the impression you had already discussed this on some level.

[hope123]

When things are good with my b/f..usually we speak nicely to each other on the phone..there are those moments when you are busy doing something or not acting soo sweet but its normal..or when things are good and i am with him..i really love it..my b/f has told me(of course when we were arguing he tells me)--he says there are time he absolutely adores being with me..and then there are the bad moments..

 

i have to say something..my b/f is not very emotional so he doesnt say things like you are soo sweet or you look hot today etc etc..i seem to get those things when we argue...i get him saying..i was just thinking how nice things have been and then we argue..or him saying..things are nice when we are on the couch together laying close or we are laughing and playing around and then we start arguing..i am actually starting to think that when we argue and i hear those comments..then i get reassurance and then i think ohh he does notice those things...i dont think i start arguments intentionally to get this b/c i HATE when we argue but i have to admit when he does say those things i almost feel glad..i think this is a WHOLE other issue but i just wanted to say this..

 

Caro..i am soo tempted in putting this off b/c i dont want him to think oh look she is complaining or arguing..this argument i think i am justified, i am just so nervous..i think the only reason i didnt say it tonight is b/c of what he said on the phone last week..that sometimes there seems to be more bad than good and he wants me to stop complaining and getting mad soo easily. He says we are fine for a week and then something else happens.

 

With regards to the rally..he says it will happen every year..AND i know of the 2 big rallies which i just have a feeling is the one he will be going to..last year i heard him talking about it with a guy(The sturgis rally) and he has even said it a few times he wants to go there..I feel like he would never bring it up until he says oh i booked it..i bet he wouldnt even ask if i am flying down..caro, you still think i am justified in saying this to him right and the fact i dont think its right to attend such an event as single?

[caro33]

Caro..i am soo tempted in putting this off b/c i dont want him to think oh look she is complaining or arguing..this argument i think i am justified, i am just so nervous..i think the only reason i didnt say it tonight is b/c of what he said on the phone last week..that sometimes there seems to be more bad than good and he wants me to stop complaining and getting mad soo easily. He says we are fine for a week and then something else happens.

 

....caro, you still think i am justified in saying this to him right and the fact i dont think its right to attend such an event as single?

 

Hope I'm not sure what to say right now, I would love to help but I've kind of come to the end of what I can advise here re whether or not you are justified.

 

IF:

 

(a) you are scared of mentioning it because he might break up with you for making life too hard too often,

 

AND

 

(b) you don't know anything about a solid rally booking yet anyway,

 

then why don't you leave it? Make a bet with yourself to hold off another week maybe. Make a promise to yourself to prove him wrong with his "there's something every week" statement.

 

You can always discuss this later you know, why don't you put the relationship as a whole first and deal with the rally concern in a little while?

 

But if you are going to leave this for now, try and forget about it. Really. This stress cannot be good for you! You will get sick, you will run yourself down and not be able to enjoy the good times!

 

The only other option I have is a disingenous question about whether he's be around at such and such a date in March because you were thinking you might have a weekend away together or something. Then see what he says. You might get him to admit he's going to the March one at least, and that gives you more solid proof that you might need to discuss this soon and/or book flights.

 

BUT if that's the case, have some thinking time before you discuss this any further with him!

[hope123]

My last post to you caro(for now)

 

 

Maybe i should just feel it out..if we are having a good time..maybe i will have enough nerve to just casually bring it up..and also tell him if it seems to be getting out of hand and say i dont want this to be an argument or me complaining but...I reall wish this was out of the way already....

[caro33]

My last post to you caro(for now)

 

 

Maybe i should just feel it out..if we are having a good time..maybe i will have enough nerve to just casually bring it up..and also tell him if it seems to be getting out of hand and say i dont want this to be an argument or me complaining but...I reall wish this was out of the way already....

 

Sounds fine, just take it easy hope, it will be okay as long as you are calm and know when to draw the conversation to a close. You can always come back to this issue another time.

 

I have to head off now, but good luck