B/f Going Away Again. Part 2

[Hope75]

I think the main thing that we are trying to convey to Hope123 is that this has been an ongoing problem with her boyfriend from the very beginning.

 

While I agree that the biker situation is a situation where there will be scantily clad women floucing around, if hope Hope could trust her boyfriend as a whole, then it might be nothing more than a mere annoyance that he was going- because she would be certain, that no matter how many women were there- her boyfriend would not cheat on her- because it is not who he is.

 

But this is another incident among many. She worries about his phone calls, a stain on his collar she thought was lipstick, his ex girlfriends, anyone he talks to who is female... to be honest, Hope seems miserable in this relationship and seems to play a role that is more mother/police than girlfriend- she's constantly worried about some situation or another that might indicate that her boyfriend is cheating on her.

 

Which leads at least me, and possibly others who have followed her threads to think one of two things:

 

1. Her boyfriend is cheating- and her gut instincts are on, and she's not being overly insecure- in which case why is she still with him because she obviously cannot trust him...

 

or

 

2. Her boyfriend isn't cheating, but Hope123 is very insecure and is building up every scenario to lead to possible infidelity... an issue that she needs to learn how to control and face and deal with- because if her boyfriend is not cheating, she is either going to drive him there, or push him away from her entirely.

 

I'm sure that if I were insecure about my boyfriend and our relationship I could turn lots of different scenarios into possible cheating. He went out to a bar last night with friends... what if he were with other women? Or just one? I wasn't with him- so what if he met someone else?

 

He went to the casino Saturday night with a couple of friends and didn't come home until pretty late... what if a woman hit on him because I wasn't there? He was drinking while there, what if he used poor judgement and followed through with it?

 

See how easy it is to get caught up in stuff like that? But the thing is that I have trust in him, and our relationship. I know he would not do anything like that. It is just the type of person that he is. And, our relationship is based on trust and respect and love and kindness. So not only has he proven himself to be trust worthy, but I have to give a little bit myself here- because he's earned it and because I don't believe a relationship where you are constantly in fear or worrying about what your partner is up to, is healthy, normal, or even worth my time.

 

So I am left wondering about Hope123.... are her fears legitimately fed by her boyfriend's behaviour? (and if so, why is she with him? it hasn't changed in the entire time she has been with him as she has posted one worry after another over this).... or is it that she just does not believe in her own self worth, her ability to have a healthy, stable, monogamous relationship...

 

Can you see where I'm going with this?

 

Where is this coming from?

[hope123]

hey

 

i definitely liked your post..yes looking back...i think a lot of things i was wrong on..some i might have been right but did what others said which is to wait for more evidence that isnt flimsy..which i didnt really find.

 

Despite what others might think..i think i improved in some ways BUT have a long way to go. I enjoy being with my b/f a lot.

 

This rally i think...just give me uneasiness all around..i know a guy can just cheat here if wanted to..but given a situation such as this, partying, drinking, looking at these girls behaving this way...i just dont know what to make of it or think anymore.

 

I am really so tempted to show him what i found

[Hope75]

Hope,

 

The thing about it is, if your boyfriend were the type to cheat on you... he wouldn't need a biker rally to do so. He'd hook up with whomever struck his fancy, someone he could have met anywhere. A bar, a resturant, a coffee shop, the gas station... you get the idea.

 

But if he isn't the type to cheat- than a biker rally full of girls isn't going to make him cheat any more than the girl at the gas station filling up next to him. He made a choice to be in a monogamous relationship with you because he wants to be... can you have faith in that? If he wanted to be messing with biker chicks he wouldn't be with you.

 

So yes, I agree that I'd be annoyed if my bf were going to an event like this biker rally (and I have friends who are bikers so I've seen the pictures and I saw your link too so I know what you are talking about..) but I do trust him. It's just like if your guy goes to a strip club. Is it my favorite thing when he does that? Certainly not. But it's few and far between and always some sort of occasion ( a batchelor party) so I just suck it up and keep myself busy that night. Because I trust him. Because if I didn't, we wouldn't be together. Just like this biker rally, that comes around once a year.

 

It seems to me that almost all of the "evidence" that you've had in the past is flimsy and circumstantial, as you said. So it seems to me that it is more your imagination creating scenarios that aren't really there as a result of your insecurity.

 

So... what can be done about your insecurity? Have you considered therapy?

[hope123]

I really do get what you are saying but dont you think its all the more possible to make a mistake while in the middle of this situation partying, drinking, cheering these girls on.

 

I wish you can see the site i saw but they wont let me post it. If you type it in for yourself maybe you can understand me a little better hope75. I do get what you are saying but seeing these things makes it all the more harder..dont you think if you are in a relationship you should think...since i am not single, i should invite my s/o to such an event if i really want to go.

[Batya33]

I think the problem here is incompatible values. I would not want to date someone whose idea of fun was to go on a trip like that and be involved in activities like that - once a year for a long weekend honestly would be too much for me, particularly since he doesn't seem eager for her to be there.

 

Yes, if you trust him that is all you need to know - if he wants to see half clad women he can see that in his own neighborhood or on the internet, 24/7 - doesn't mean he's going to cheat.

 

Also consider that I bet what you were attracted to at first was the whole macho motorbike thing - well, in this case it comes with its disadvantages, too.

[hope123]

With all honesty...he didnt have that look of a biker..you know that long beard and beer belly lol

 

And i did not know that he was into bike trips until almost a year into our relationship..it might have come up..BUT i did not think anything of them until i looked them up myself..a year into the relationship i am already emotionally involved..its a lot harder than finding this out after 2 months and just be like..hmmm this guy is weird lol

[Hope75]

Hope- I did see your link, and I have seen pictures from biker rallies- so I do know what you are talking about. It gets pretty raunchy and rowdy. It is not, however, appropriate content for the forum which is why it was removed.

 

But no, I don't think the circumstances will matter. I think if your boyfriend's inclination to cheat is there, it will happen no matter where the opportunity arises. If it is not there, then it won't matter how many naked women are throwing themselves around-- he won't cheat.

 

It's not about opportunity. If you boyfriend is trustworthy- that part won't matter.

 

And no, I don't think that just because your guy is in a relationship with you that he now has to do everything with you and include you in every trip or activity. I would agree with Batya that it is more about incompatible values-- how you think he should behave in a relationship, vs. how he thinks he should behave.

 

I don't see anything wrong with him going on this trip without you-- it is mostly guys, sure there will be some wives there but you are not his wife, and I don't imagine there will be too many of the wives there, since it's usually just the riders who go. (although some riders are women.)

 

Can you see why he wouldn't want you to go? Because around these women you'd be insecure, sulky, and act miserable, and ruin his chance to have fun with his friends?

[caro33]

So what are you thinking you will do? When is the rally again?

 

I guess I will come back to my usual advice of "if you feel strongly enough, raise it, but also be clear" or "if you decide you can't raise it you need to decide to trust him".

 

What do you see as your options right now, all your options? Perhaps if we work through them and the pros and cons of each, it might help.

[Batya33]

FYI - my point on incompatible values was not incompatibililty in how to behave in a relationship- personally I would not feel comfortable being involved with someone who would enjoy taking a trip like that with those activities - whether he was single or in a relationship.

[Hope75]

FYI - my point on incompatible values was not incompatibililty in how to behave in a relationship- personally I would not feel comfortable being involved with someone who would enjoy taking a trip like that with those activities - whether he was single or in a relationship.

 

Sorry, Batya,

 

I misinterpreted what you were saying.

 

That is a valid point too- and if Hope isn't comfortable dating a guy who enjoys these types of activities, she has to decide if her boyfriend is the right guy for her.

[hope123]

I feel like if you are single..do whatever..but if you are in a relationship..you dont go to these types of events and not bring your s/o..how is this guys vacation when its surrounded by these women doing these things? thats male bonding? give me a break....

[Batya33]

Well, no it's not a guys only vacation that is true. What is also true is that you've known about his interest in these types of activities for some time and it has not been a dealbreaker so he is probably confused as to why you are making such a big deal out of it now.

 

If you trust him it doesn't matter where he goes or what he does. Understand that this is a priority for him - and evaluate that in light of what else you know about him.

[hope123]

I guess i feel if you are in a relationship..you wont go to such an event without the s/o by your side..you want to go camping..great...but this is far from an innocent weekend. Its a week of this, not even a weekend

[Batya33]

Yes -those are your standards. Those are not his standards and no one else has to validate your standards- but you have to be aware of your own comfort level and your boundaries. Of course you can reevaluate your standards if you feel you are being irrational, but if you and he are not on the same wavelength about what is appropriate behavior in a relationship then you have to work that out between you.

 

If it were me I would not want to be in a serious relationship with a man who found it fun to spend a week without me surrounded by half naked drunk women. I go for traditional gentlemen types who are done with the drinking/clubbing life, if they were ever into it in the first place.

 

Your boyfriend I am sure can find plenty of women who would be comfortable with his behavior because either they would want permission to do the same or they would compromise their own values just to be with a man.

[hope123]

batya,

 

but if you found this out after getting emotionally involved..what would you do...and if you are not comfortable with it would you atleast expect him to be ok with you there?

[Batya33]

I only stay in relationships where I could see myself marrying the guy. I could not marry a guy who would behave the way your boyfriend is behaving so it wouldn't matter so much that I was "emotionally involved." Also, because of my approach to dating, I make it my business to find out as soon as possible if we have compatible values about the important things and if I respect (if not like) the people he chooses to hang out with and be close to and the activities he chooses to do. I have ended relationships where the guy drank too much, was disrespectful to me, etc. because it is not that hard for me to emotionally distance myself once I see that we don't have compatible values.

 

I suppose he should be ok with it but I don't blame him for being confused since last year you were ok with it, right?

[hope123]

No i was not ok with it last year..it was kind of a bombshell..he basically just said there will be some you can go on and some you cant and he tells me its b/c there is a lot of riding on some..which i feel like to me is an excuse, i dont know what others think about it.

 

But if i fly down-that kind of cuts back on the riding, doesnt it? even there..why couldnt i skip one ride and hang out at the hotel or wherever there is..

 

Should i ask him in a casual way and nice way, not attacking and just be like..did you mean what you said last week, about if i really wanted to see what this is, use my money to fly down..b/c you didnt say it nicely so i was just wondering.

[caro33]

The other point is also what kind of guy he is. No matter how many times I, and others have asked, you have not told us about him and what his values are. It's often the little stuff that helps give us insight into a person's character. I can imagine a really nice guy who happens to like bikes and his mates going to this thing. I can also imagine a sleazy dude who just wants to party going to this thing. What kind of person is he hope?

 

I have found that just by going through the exercise of listing what I love about the other person, by going through their good points, that it helps give me perspective into my current concern. You can go through their bad points too - I am talking about getting some real perspective here. Start looking at the facts. Like Hope75 said, and we have all said before, either he is a cheater or he isn't. What does your gut tell you?

 

The other question for you is, and continues to be, hope: what are you going to do about this? We can all give you our own views about what we would and not accept, and they are all valid. They are not, however, a replacement for your own views. I can see myself at your age accepting this and being okay with it. I can see me at my current age not being okay with it. You will get views of all sorts, even from the same person.

 

It depends on the myriad of issues that go into your relationship. But the thing is, you have continued in this relationship for at least a year after the last biker rally. You had a choice then to re-evaluate this. You have had a choice all along. The years of your life are ticking away here and you need to work out if this stuff is a dealbreaker for you or not.

[caro33]

Should i ask him in a casual way and nice way, not attacking and just be like..did you mean what you said last week, about if i really wanted to see what this is, use my money to fly down..b/c you didnt say it nicely so i was just wondering.

 

Why not? If you think that's something you can handle, why not. I would cut out the last bit ("you didn't say it nicely") though.

[deleted_x]

I think your in a very sticky situation, for yourself and your insecurity. I have never been to nor personally seen a bike rally event, but I know alot about them from my bigger brother and I've seen a car rally - and the bike rallies are generally supposed to be just a lot "hotter" so to say. If I were you, I would feel insecure, possibly jealous. Maybe you should consider putting your foot down? He says he will goto it every year no matter what - no matter how you feel... You sound like a great and nice person, I don't see why you should stand for that. Would he choose his bikes over you? If so... I'm not so sure you should be with him if your looking for companionship in your relationship

Sorry

[hope123]

hey guys

 

someone asked for his good qualities so they can judge this situation better:

 

here are the pros:

 

He is usually there when i call him..if not, like an hour later he calls back or there is a reason.

 

He is not the type to blow me off..like if i specifically said, lets see this play on saturday or specifically plan for something..he isnt the type to say..no, i wanna go see my friends or something like that on the day it arrives.

 

for the past year..he was driving to pick me up after work..we saw each other about 3 nights a week..he lives about 30 or 35 minutes away depending on traffic..and b/c my parents did not know about him(it took me awhile, b/c i was just nervous about introducing a b/f which was stupid) he drove me home in the middle of the night usually, drove back and went to work..once they did know of him, i stayed over til the morning and he would have to wake up still earlier than usual so he can drive me home and then go to work..i dont drive.

He came to me last summer and said he is burning out and needs me to take the train atleast once a week..and just make things a little easier..which i agreed to do..i figured we were past that dating point where its ok for me to take the train to see him..he put in a lot of effort to see me.

 

He doesnt go out too often without me..like to bars or clubs..and he says its all the same wherever you go.

 

He does little sweet things..like he holds my hand in the car while driving. He has the cards i gave to him displayed. He is pretty affectionate..sometimes it could be more but i guess it cant be like that all the time. When we are out in public, he holds my hand or if we are out at bars he makes it pretty known we are together.

He isnt a very emotional person(that would be a big con) but i complained aobut him not saying i love you enough and i can see he tries to say it more than he used to last year.

He is family oriented..does pretty much anything his mom asks..sometimes to me its too much even.(b/c sometimes i wil feel second if something comes up with his family)

i have gotten mad when he had to cancel on me..but usually he would be like, i can see you this night instead.

 

He changed certain actions i didnt like..i noticed he would look at girls in the car when driving..and at first i thought i was just being paranoid but it really bugged me..and he says he looks at everyone not just girls..but i said if its a girl and i am there, its wrong..and he actually doesnt do it anymore..maybe a glance or something but since i complained, it has stopped for the most part.

 

He also wants to go camping for a week with a guy..and i feel like he is planning all these things without me and that i have to iniate a trip with him..it bugged me but he said well where do you wanna go. Maybe he still thinks more in a me type of way with certain things until i say something. I dont really know.

 

At his apartment..at first he would be like..you left your jewelery and i would think does he not want me to leave stuff here? but somehow i think i doubt that b/c i have my drawer there with a few sweaters, i have slippers there..i have my own toothbrush etc etc.

 

i also can say that he probably has put up a lot with me..probably as you can see from my posts..although ALOT of the stuff he had no idea what i was thinking or feeeling b/c i am not gonna complain to him like i do here..this is partly venting here and part looking for advice.

But here are just a few pros.

[hope123]

what i forgot to say with the putting up a lot with me..he said to me once..honestly..in the past i would have left a long time ago.

[caro33]

Thanks for responding hope, I think that's great.

 

It does sound like he loves you very much, and he is trying to do right by you. Is that a fair assessment?

 

Do you think that he might just be a bit thoughtless sometimes and need a clear message sent about something? I think many relationships are like this.

 

What do you think his values are re commitment and fidelity? Does he ever say things that make you worry, like almost seeming impressed with other people getting away with bad behaviour, that kind of thing?

[caro33]

what i forgot to say with the putting up a lot with me..he said to me once..honestly..in the past i would have left a long time ago.

 

What else did he say - what makes this relationship different, is it him, you or a combination?

[hope123]

well he didnt say too much after that comment about leaving..i said to him..well its supposed to be different with me..i feel like if you really love someone..sometimes you do things you wouldnt have done with other people in the past in order to make them happy..i dont think he sees it as this.

 

I spoke to my best friend..

 

I think i have decided to do this...when i am in person with him.. i am going to have to be patient and wait til in person and until a good time(in person right everyone?) and ask that question i wanted to ask..and see what his reaction is...and IF he says flat out no..you are not going or NOT welcome to come...then the next day..send him the pics i found no matter how racy they are and say..this is what i found..can you tell me why i should be completely secure with a b/f going to this event and him telling me no you are not welcome to come along. Maybe he needs to know, this is what i have seen and heard and its not a place for a family, its not hunting or camping or a white water rafting trip.

 

My good friend said..you have been together for awhile..you have a right to say this to him and that you want to go on vacations together and that he isn't single and should understand where i am coming from.