B/f Going Away Again. Part 2

[Dako]

how is it chaperoning though when plenty of girls go with their guys...i know one of the wives doesnt ride and she flew down to meet him.

 

Because those women are going to have fun, not spy on their guys, but you want to go because you don't trust your guy. Every time I ask if you're into the biker scene, or if you'd enjoy it, you respond that it's your right to check this out to soothe your fears. Never have you mentioned actually enjoying his hobby or having an interest in it at all.

 

If you asked this woman you know about it, what did she say?

Not enought to ease your worries?

 

You just don't trust him.

If I were him, it'd be good to know the relationship has a hole in it.

[caro33]

I have to say that I just don't get how this matter has gone out 21 pages. The advice has come from different perspectives, but has tended toward the same points. The "rights" issue comes up again and again. And this is something you also went through a year ago, and here on this forum. Not to mention the dozen or so other trust issues you have raised in the past that cover the same principles.

 

hope123, has anything anyone had said helped you? After 21 pages I'm not sure. What would you like us to say? Yes, he's definitely going to cheat on you? Yes, he definitely disrespects you? Yes you should make him have you there because it's the right thing to do?

 

He could be just a guy wanting to pursue his hobby, and as Dako said, fart freely and talk shop with the boys. He could be wanting to go and perve, but this is where character steps in and your understanding and trust for your own boyfriend play a part. You have a right to state your case, but you have an obligation to do this fairly and reasonably, and with some level of trust in your guy. You also need to be able to live with the consequences.

 

After 18 or so pages of debate last time, and you being desperate to say something, you didn't it seems, and nothing happened. You still don't even know if he's going! Why not at least ask this man you have been dating for what...close to 2 years? Why not at least ask him if he's going?

[hope123]

well i spoke to him. FINALLY.

 

He said--if you want to see what its like at a bike week THIS TIME, i told you to save money and fly down. He said then what if it wasnt a bike he was going on. He knows a few guys going down to certain destinations like miami for example where they would fly the bikes down and ride there. He said yeah, we would probably be at bars at night buts its not at bike week so he would go without me. He said thats the best compromise he can give....

[caro33]

I have got the gist of what you are saying, which is you can go with him, but at the same time I'm not sure of the differentiation you/he makes here.

 

What does this mean? - "He said then what if it wasnt a bike he was going on"

 

What is the difference between "bike week" and the concerns you have about the rally? And when is this?

[hope123]

well the whole bike week atmosphere is what i have been worried about..girls constantly flashing, walking around naked, stripping at the bars, those pervocative contests.

 

He said what if it wasnt a bike week..where they all went riding somewhere for a week but more than likely would be at bars at night also--whether it be florida or miami..he said its not bike week and if thats what i have a problem with, he should be able to do the other without me simply b/c the bike week is what i am worried about.

[hope123]

he also does not have anything planned but will have.

[caro33]

Oh okay, I was being thick hey!

 

So you get to go to the whole shebang you were concerned about - how do you feel now?

 

And do you agree that he should be able to go without you for non-rally boys' bike trips occasionally?

[caro33]

Erk I have to go now, but I wanted to let you know - this looks like a good outcome to me. Now you need to decide if you really want to go to this thing!

[hope123]

him not necessarily going to the bike week thing does make me feel better..do you think its a good compromise to not go to this bike week but him going to some place like florida or miami to ride bikes and go to bars? i know it wouldnt be as comparable to the biker week b/c these guys aren't 20 hitting clubs like college kids do on spring break in miami.

[never-too-late]

Honestly if I were your boyfriend, I would find you really clingy and desperate. He must be SOOOOOO happy that you are going with him on this bike week. You see he wants to do things WITHOUT YOU so why don't you go to Miami with your girlfriend. But I think you are someone who has no other focus than your boyfriend and it's suffocating him.

 

Anyway, now you have what YOU want. I am not sure he has what HE wants but I guess he had no other choice. It's like children, they insist, they cry, they sulk if you don't do something for them so you have no choice but to say "allright then". This is how I see the situation.

[southerngirl]

I grew up in central florida okay? I dont live there anymore, but anyways thats not the point...

 

I have been to bike week in Daytona Beach many many times. The picture you paint of it is wrong. You dont know what your talking about. You see a few video's of party scenes on youtube and think you know all about it.

 

The closer you hold onto your man and try to control him the further you are going to push him away from you. If you wanted to go and have fun and party right along with him then that would be a different story. But you are wanting to go and guard him like a babysitter to make sure his chain doesn tget too long, to make sure he DARES not to look at a booob or has too much fun. You want to rain on his parade.

 

I guess on this biker issue maybe you should decide what it is you want. If you want to be with a biker forever you should probally learn to like the lifestyle. If you dont then you may have years of frustration ahead. Many of the members of my family ride bikes. My uncle for example has always had a bike. He is in his 50s and every year he goes to bikeweek and biketoberfest and wild horses couldnt keep him away. My aunt doesnt go with him either, she says the loudness and the people all bothers her but in the end he comes home to her. Shes okay with that.

 

Thats his 'man' time. If you make the mistake of trying to control him theres only so much he is going to be able to take. Someday he may just start running away like a caged bird that has saw the door opened.

[Batya33]

well i spoke to him. FINALLY.

 

He said--if you want to see what its like at a bike week THIS TIME, i told you to save money and fly down. He said then what if it wasnt a bike he was going on. He knows a few guys going down to certain destinations like miami for example where they would fly the bikes down and ride there. He said yeah, we would probably be at bars at night buts its not at bike week so he would go without me. He said thats the best compromise he can give....

 

I think you won the fight but lost the war. He obviously doesn't want you there this time - he's giving in. I wouldn't go if I were you - bad vibes. And he now knows that you don't trust him. If you don't trust him you might as well be worried about the bars he will be going to on the "non-bike" week - that's the real issue - your trust issues - not his behavior.

 

I would go to this bike rally only if you are going because you are really interested in this activity, not from a need to watch what he does.

[never-too-late]

I totaly agree with Batya33!!!!!

[hope123]

going to the bike rally will allow me to see whether the whole picture i have in my head is wrong. What's wrong with that? If i am wrong and some people who posted about the rally are right and i see its not all about the women--i completely overreacted to what i saw..b/c i dont understand how its "guy" time if i am not wrong..i wanna be with the girls--does that mean i'm gonna go to a place where guys are ripping off their clothes? And he isnt a true true biker-- such going to every single bike week and doesnt even look it..i only found out until almost over a year into the relationship

[Batya33]

What's wrong to me is the way you approached it. You pleaded with him to go, he is not enthusiastic about you going and thereforeeee you are prioritizing your mistrust based on internet photos over building a relationship with your boyfriend. This is all about you and your insecurities and not about the relationship. If your "investigation" is correct and it is a party scene all that will show is that you didn't trust him enough to tell you whether it was and, even if it was, to behave accordingly. If your "investigation" is wrong and all is fine, he will be resentful that you felt the need to spy on and check up on him.

 

Watch the S_x and the City where Samantha feels the need to constantly check up on her boyfriend while they are at a casino. She finally gives up, exhausted even though he happens to be behaving at that point. She realizes the real issue is trust and if she doesn't trust him it doesn't matter how much she can spy on him.

 

You're not addressing the true problem here - this is just a bandaid - you'll feel fine perhaps if you see that all is ok but where does it stop? If you don't trust him you'll have to make sure to have his passwords, check his phone, e-mail, when he goes to hang out with his friends at a bar without you. And, worse, he'll know that this is your mindset. If I were him I would almost say

"she doesn't trust me anyway so I might as well have some fun."

 

Going makes you look controlling, insecure and needy/whiny. That could be a turn off.

[hope123]

i did not bring up going with him again..he brought it up this time too saying i already told you to get some cash and save for it.

 

And i'm sorry--i think things have to do with more with just behaving and trusting him not to look to long or to touch..is it wrong for me to go to spring break in miami and go to the clubs every night i am there and tell my b/f--oh trust me..and i have been doing this for awhile so too bad if you don't like it, i need girl time. I think thats wrong. I think certain places you don't go if you are in a serious relationship out of respect or if you do, you bring you S/0 or your time their is limited and not a week of partying. I think even a person with the highest integrity and morals can slip up a little when they are placed in a situation like this and drinking almost every night and seeing what they are seeing. I just do think its a higher possibility of happening even though a person may go in there with the best of intentions...and from threads that i read about how "i was so drunk and things got out of contol but i really love my b/f or g/f, what should i do" proves it. Its not so cut and dry as will he touch or make out or sleep with someone else?

[Batya33]

We simply have different approaches to relationships. If my boyfriend wanted to go away on a singles type vacation over spring break I would know that we had incompatible values and standards about an exclusive relationship and also what we found fun to do and I would not date him. I would not go and spy on him - I simply would not date him.

 

Other than that, I disagree that raised temptation increases the chances of cheating with someone who has certain values. Indeed, many affairs start in the workplace not in a bar or club scene. My boyfriend and I are long distance right now. At least 2-3 times a month he is out with his friends in a bar or restaurant that has a party atmosphere. I don't ask what goes on because I don't need to - I trust him to act consistently with our commitment. Sometimes he tells me about his evening and I am glad to hear he had a fun time or an interesting time. If indeed he harmlessly flirted with another woman - you know what, that's fine - as long as I wasn't there (if I were, that would be disrespectful). However, I can tell you with 99.99% certainty that he doesn't do that because he has a certain self-image, certain values and he would not want to behave that way in front of his friends. That is one of the many reasons I am with him.

 

My boyfriend works closely with many attractive single women. Again, I don't ask because I trust him. He is a man of character and integrity and he wouldn't choose to get drunk if he thought that doing so might be playing with fire as far as leading down the wrong path. (He is not a heavy drinker in the least and I wouldn't date someone who was).

 

Yes - there are certain activities that are inappropriate to do if you are in an exclusive relationship - you don't go on dates with other people, you don't hook up with other people and you don't go to singles types events because that gives the wrong impression and is disrespectful. But as I mentioned, if the person insists on going, the answer is not to tag along on your own penny and spy on him.

 

Look - if this dynamic works for you and your boyfriend, that's cool. It would never work for me. As far as him bringing it up - all he told you was that if you insisted on coming, save up your money and come. There is no way I would take him up on that "non-invitation." He obviously is not enthusiastic about you going, the only reason you are going is to be a spy, and I would prefer to get a brazilian wax every single day for a week (never had one, heard they are painful) then take him up on his "offer." But that's just me.

[Meow18]

I agree with Batya.

 

He didn't think you would have fun because you wouldn't. You obviously don't share an interest in biking and he knows that, so why would he want to drag you along on the back of a bike? That doesn't mean he doesn't love you and love being with you.. it just means he knows you wouldn't have fun, so he doesn't want to put you through that.

 

Even if you went to see everything that goes on, you would probably be insecure then too. Everytime you passed a half naked girl, you would be wondering if your boyfriend was thinking about her. And no guy wants a girl going just to watch his every move, or to watch where he's looking.

 

Hope, your boyfriend is not going to these bike week things to look at naked girls. He might not be the stereotypical biker who has long hair and tattoos, and goes to these things every month. But he still has an interest in biking and this is something that he can do with his friends who are also interested in biking.. It's like comic book conventions. When you are so into them, just talking about them with your buddies just isn't enough.

 

And since you don't approve of this, you should consider yourself lucky that he only likes going to these things once a year.

 

Chances are, there will be girls wherever he decides to go for this biker stuff. Chances are, there are girls everywhere he goes. And your boyfriend is only human, he will probably think a few of the girls he passes are attractive. But does that mean he suddenly falls in love with them, or wants to replace you, or even wants to get to know them? Your boyfriend probably doesn't even think about them 2 seconds after he passes them.

 

Last year, you said that when he got home he was all over you? Obviously he missed you and was happy to come back to you.. afterall, he did come back to you.

 

I think another issue here is that you do not approve of this. And it's ok if you don't think it's a fair thing to do when in a relationship. But the problem is that he obviously doesn't agree. He probably doesn't see anything wrong with going when it's all just an interest he has. And I know that since you are emotionally attached to him, it makes it that much harder, but suppose he goes to these things once a year for the next 30 years.. can you handle that?

[hope123]

i agree with some of what batya said but i dont agree on is him making the decision saying you wont have fun so you cant go(which he didnt do by the way) he never said i wouldnt have fun..he only said i dont belong going hours and hours on the back of the bike to get there b/c its too much responsibility. I do like riding on the back but not for hours and hours at a time. I have done a few. And plenty of people do things or take part in things they wouldnt normally if they werent with a person. So if i see this for myself, enjoy it and also see its not as bad as i thought, wouldnt that improve things?

[Batya33]

No, because the way you approached this was from a position of mistrust that taints and overshadows any rationalizations you are now giving for going.

[never-too-late]

So is that the reason why you are going? I see control, control, control and again control on your part. You are not getting any of the messages all people have posted regarding this issue. If you trusted your boyfriend, you would have never said those things above. You are deciding for your boyfriend how to think of your relationship - you said:

 

 

 

But that is YOUR opinion. Is it HIS opinion? That's what we are all trying to tell you. You do not understand this man at all I think. He needs time away from you with his guy friends, time away where he can be free without your constant presense, without you control, he will have to spend his time worrying about you, if you are ok, he just wants to be free for this time with his friends. If you do not let your man to have this pleasure and gift to be with his friends, I think you do not deserve him.

 

 

 

I think you and we all on this board know that it was not like that. He has not brought it up himself. And as you say that he said I ALREADY TOLD you that indicates that he did not want to talk about it again with you as you have ALREADY talked about it with him. Honestly, he told you to save some cash and save for it but that was only because he feels guilty for upsetting you if he tells you that he wants to go alone. He is doing out of duty not out of pleasure. And you are still making it sound as if he is so happy and excited for you to go with him. Even if he gets drunk and does something behind your back, you cannot control this.

 

I find you to be pretty self-centered and just really not respectful towards him. To be honest with you, if I place myself in his shoes and I would tell my boyfriend I want to go away with my girlfriends for a few days and I would prefer to go alone but he would insist to go because we are in so called seirous relationship, I would feel that pretty strange about it. But I am lucky that my boyfriend is not this way.

 

You keep saying that Well, there is nothing wrong with that as such but let me ask you one thing. Have you been invited by him? Has he actually told you that he would be very happy if you come with him? Has he told you any of this?

 

So ok, let's say that you will go with him just to make sure for yourself that the picture you have in your head is not wrong. And let's say that you will discover for yourself that it's actually worse than you imagined. What are you going to do then about it????? I really want to know this. Are you going to be upset with him, are you going to tell him that he cannot go again because it's really bad what you saw.. What are you going to do about it?? I really would like to know. And one thing, if you do go with him, he will have to control himself around you, he will not be able to be himself in case there are things that he knows would upset you but that still does not give you any guarantee that if he is without you that he will not act more freely if you get my point.

 

 

 

Ok, I can support my point here. He calls taking you with him as TOO MUCH RESPONSIBILITY! Can you see. He does not see is it as a week of pleasure with you where he can just forget all of his problems, where he can just be with the guys on a level, which does not involve relationship reponsibility and you are still not getting it. Honestly, I think he has a problem to tell you directly that he would rather go alone and have FUN on his own with the guys.

 

 

 

Yes that's true, HOWEVER, in your case it's not about this. You have just said it that you do not like long rides for hours and he knows it! And I think its different when the other person is actually happy when we show interest in what they like and he has not shown it to you. So if he comes to you and tells you that he is more than happy if you come along for you to see if you can bear it or not, by all means go but he has been trying the poor guy to tell you that he wants to go alone and you are not letting him, I feel so sorry for him.

 

 

 

Let me ask you, going there to see this, how is it going to improve your relationship? I would like to know because maybe I am a bit lost. And you have said it above "I HAVE BEEN WORRIED ABOUT". But you are going to share his passion and try to see if your picture is wrong or not.

 

Actually why don't you just ask him straight about this. Why don't you just tell him straight that why do you want to go, that is because you worry about the above? Why don't you ask him what does this bike week exactly involves. And if you are worried about naked women, well let me tell you, even if you go with him, how on earth are you going to make the situation better for yourself? I mean he will look at a naked woman and you will join and say "wow, baby she is hot isn't she?" I honestly do not understand how do you want to behave around him in a way so he can actually enjoy this week.

 

 

If I were you, I would go back to the first page when you posted and re-read what he told you when you talked about it at first, maybe it will open your eyes.

 

Just imagine how this guy feels if for example, he wants to go with one of his best friends.. just an example, he wants to have fun with him, be himself, joke about things.. and suddenly he has to tell his friend "actually buddy, my so called serious girlfriend decided that she wants to come because in so called serious relationships that is what people do, they go to all places together and she wants to see for herself what I am up to and if it fits her picture or not, well, buddy I think no more real fun for us.. looking after her for me.. I had no choice but to tell her to save up for it because you know I don't want her to feel disapointed that she cannot come along and I know that she would question me even more if I let her stay at home. What a great time for me and for us buddy..".

 

Anyway, this is how I see it, I think you are making a mistake by going but you want to see it for yourself to improve your relationship so I guess there is nothing else what anyone could tell you at this point I think. Maybe you should ask your boyfriend if your relationship needs improvement, guys love it when we try to improve the relationship.

 

Good luck.

[caro33]

him not necessarily going to the bike week thing does make me feel better..do you think its a good compromise to not go to this bike week but him going to some place like florida or miami to ride bikes and go to bars? i know it wouldnt be as comparable to the biker week b/c these guys aren't 20 hitting clubs like college kids do on spring break in miami.

 

I agree with everything that has been said subsequent to this post, but I have kind of give up trying to explain to you the problem in your outlook. I have started to see your situation as risk mitigation rather than arguing the right thing to do. So I think your discussion with him was a good outcome because you seem to have come to some compromise and he hasn't broken up with you yet.

 

Seriously though hope, don't push it any more. He should be allowed to go wherever he wants to go - you are not his keeper. The most you get to do is establish what you need from him and then see if either of you want to hang around. You seem to have managed this bike rally thing and I would think the fact that he has acquiesced should show you he's not saying you can't go - which was a concern of yours.

 

In my own view, the right thing to do now is to be grateful he said you could, then make alternative plans. Be somewhere else. The riding for long hours will tax you and it will taint his enjoyment of the event completely because he'll be worried about you and having to look after you. And if there are half-naked girlies, you'll hate it. And how will you policing him make him look to his friends? Why risk any of this. I think that if you were going to have a good time he would know this and have asked you. He knows you won't, and that's why he's not keen. This is his thing hope, not yours. Don't run the significant risk of ruining it for him just for some small chance you might enjoy it and "improve the relationship". You tagging along to his hobby event does not improve the relationship.

 

You want to improve the relationship? Try trusting him and giving him a break.

 

By the way, your quote above looks like you're saying he might not go to the bike week but he'll do something else. Do you think that's what you are negotiating? I thought you were trying to negotiate you going with him to the bike week, not him not going at all but "being allowed" a less threatening (to you) option.

[Hope75]

You want to improve the relationship? Try trusting him and giving him a break.

I could not have said it better myself Caro.

 

Hope, I've been following this thread again for awhile but haven't posted because everything I was thinking was pretty much covered by all the good advice you have been getting. But somehow I'm not getting the impression that any of it is sinking with you.

 

It seems pretty obvious to me that your boyfriend is quite annoyed that you want to come along on what (for him) is a guy's thing- whether or not other wives or girlfriends are going along.... he would have invited you if he wanted you there-- not instead bulldozed into submission. Do you really feel good about the way he said FINE PAY YOUR OWN WAY? Do you think that's improving your relationship? Honestly?

 

And someone else asked you, if you go to this rally and there ARE in fact naked women everywhere.... what are you going to do about it? Tell him he can't go ever again without you? Follow him every year to make sure he doesn't cheat? When does he get the trust that he, as a good and honest partner, has earned? And if he's not- what are you still doing with him?

 

And you basically admitted that you don't trust him in a situation where there is liquor involved and possibly some scantily clad women- so there is no regard there for his feeling or integrity or the way he's treated you so far... though I am not really surprised as there have been SO MANY issues with you not trusting him. I guess I'm just confused why you are still with someone you obviously do not trust.

 

You always come back and say that you do trust him but obviously not or you would not behave this way and you admitted that you think that even the most trustworthy man would cheat if tempted and fueled with alcohol- to which I find insulting to all men and strongly disagree. I really think this problem lies more with you then with this relationship or with any guy. I think ANY guy would find it impossible to earn your trust.... because it's you, not them.

 

My boyfriend is going down to Florida on Memorial Day weekend with a bunch of guy friends for the long weekend. They will be drinking and going to bars... there will be women there- but I trust him, and I know that he wouldn't cheat- that's why I am with him. What about you?

 

And so here we are, 23 pages later, with almost every response to you telling you that the way you are behaving about this issue is unfair and possessive.

 

I wonder if even 50 pages would ever get you to reconsider your point of view.

[Dako]

Ironically, most people ride bikes to feel free.

[never-too-late]

I agree with Hope 75 to the point.