What really IS karma?

[renaissancewoman101]

During my time on this board, I have heard quoted time and time again, that "karma is a beast", "karma will get them back at the end", etc etc. So, what is karma? My take on karma is that no good deed goes unrewarded, no bad deed goes unpunished. Yet, it seems like those who do good and take the high road, still get smushed time and time again, and those who take the devious road and step on others, use others, seem to do QUITE well in life.

 

If karma is supposed to right the wrongs in our lives, it doesnt seem to be doing so. Case in point, me. I know this sounds arrogant to say, but I consider myself to be a kind, compassionate, and caring friend. I can also be a great GF to somebody and have been. Yet, I seem to find myself smushed time and time again when it comes to dating and relationship prospects, life stuff, etc.

 

And then I see my ex best friend's bf, who is a cad to say to the least. He is a serial cheater and treats people like crap, and yet, nothing EVER seems to go wrong with him. He is very successful in life, does great in his jobs, etc.

 

Where's the karma in all of that?

[I_KicKed_keNNedy]

You have a very narrow view of Karma.

 

Examples:

1)Jane is a very good person. She is nice to everyone, and she goes out of her way to do good deeds. Jane also asks the cosmos: "What's in it for me? I keep doing nice things for people and they don't do nice things in return!" The cosmos doesn't reward Jane because she isn't a good person... she only acts good to get a reward.

 

2) Joan is a very pure soul who does good things for people almost out of habit. She is very honest and very self-sacrificing because she is that type of person. She never asks whats in it for her, she only asks what more she can do. One day she is cheated out of $1000 by a man she trusted. Why did the cosmos do something like that to her? Because Joan was going to take that $1000 and buy a ticket to spring break in Cancun, where she would be slipped a roofie and gang raped by four frat brothers from Michigan State. The cosmos saved her from such a terrible fate.

 

3) John is a real jerkwad. He seems to get everything he wants, but he treats everyone with contempt and he continually screws them over to better serve himself. John is rich and John gets laid all of the time. Is the cosmos setting him up for something? Is John's actions symptomatic of an underlying unhappiness that brings him to tears everytime he's alone? Is John actually a nice guy who's been caught in some weird circumstances that made him appear to be a jerk rather than the cool cat he is?

 

....that's between John and the cosmos.

[renaissancewoman101]

I don't go around doing good deeds because I want some reward. Most people know me as being kind and caring and I do like making people happy. Sometimes, when I am down in the dumps, I reflect on my life and realize that although I have done good for others (NOT expecting something in return), I still realize my life is crappy in a lot of sense, and then I see how other people act like cads and use others. Their lives seem to be put together and they seem to have all the good stuff happen to them.

 

Sometimes, I feel karma isn't fair. Like you can put your whole heart and soul into liking someone, treating them well, being there for them, and they can cheat on you, betray you, or just walk out of your life without a nary look back.

[ImThatGirl]

Hey, Ren! How ya doing Lady?

 

My take on Karma:

 

It does all come back to us. In some way, at some point, if we build positive Karma, we will be rewarded for it. If we build negative Karma, we'll see that as well.

 

I have been thinking alot about something.

Myself and many of my friends are VERY genuine, honest, and compassionate.

 

I am very thankful for being this way and I agree you have the same qualities.

 

But by being extremely compassionate, I think we often put ourselves in positions of thinking of others before thinking of ourselves (almost always put ourselves in those positions.) For me personally, I think it's a matter of possibly needing to be less compassionate or at least not putting myself out there. If we continuously reach out to others that are less compassionate, we will continously feel like we are never getting anything positive...

 

Does that make sense?

[easyguy]

I see karma not just as a practical belief system of cause and effect, but (if you believe in this) also as a metaphysical force that strongly influences your life in its reincarnated state. But I'll leave that part alone.

 

For practical purposes, karma is more about action (which is the direct translation in Pali), intention, and response than anything. Whether or not you believe it has an effect on what is to come is up to you. Some people who do bad things end up living a great life, and some who do great things end up in the shoots. That is life. But what you do or how you act generally has consequences in one form or another, good or bad. It could be physical, spiritual, and/or emotional at some frequency.

 

Sometimes it is short-term, and sometimes it can be seen as a long-term, chain of events that fosters a particular notion to others about yourself over the course of your lifetime.

 

If you are talking to someone, and a certain comment pushes your buttons and causes you to lash out in anger, the other person is consequentially and in an instant, uncomfortable. You meet that person the next day and have a conversation and at one point you start becoming angry again. The next day, same deal. After so many times, that person is going to assume that you are always an angry person, and for many years to come, if not forever, will believe that you will always be like that. Your actions, and perhaps your intentions, influenced that person on an emotional level to change their perception of you.

 

But, do good deeds to simply do good deeds. What happens will happen, and dwelling on the past is on the same playing field as dreaming about the future. Your past is your past, and the future is the future... be it 1 hour from now, or 2 years down the line.

 

Action can also mean what you do to yourself. If you are selfish and egotistical, you might find later on what is causing you to feel that way. And as a result of being selfish, you might feel alone and depressed, afraid of opening up to others. How you act through that has an effect on others' perception of you.

 

Karma is a complicated yet simple concept/belief system. From a Buddhist's perspective, it is interesting reading and hearing about it. There is a practical and metaphysical side to it. It has little to do with morals and ethics, but rather, what is beneficial and what isn't. Think about how you react to different situations. Taking a step back and dealing with something maturely will bare more fruit than projecting unnecessary anger. Karma is there is not to discourage you, but instead, it's there to encourage you to take responsibility for your actions.

[Spugly Fuglet]

"Karma, Karma, Karma,Karma,Karma a cameleon"

 

I think its a Boy George song

[AntiLove_SuperStar]

Karma simply means....drum roll..

 

"CAUSE AND EFFECT!"

 

The accumulation of energies and belief systems. It certainly isn't "I do good so I get good back".

[dogheadma]

Karma is about energy. If your energy is negative, negativity is what you will be drawn to. If your energy is positive, positivity is what you will attract. It's not a matter of deeds, e.g.; good or bad, it's about your outlook on life and how you see your role in it. The energy, attitude, and image with which you percieve yourself is what will return to you.

 

To quote one of my heros, Mr. George Carlin, "The universe dosen't reward and it dosen't punish, it just is. And so are we. For a little while."

[abcd1234]

The view that everyone expresses of Karma in the west is that:

 

1) Good people who do good deeds, in turn have good things happen to them.

2) If bad people do bad things, then they will suffer bad things themselves.

 

This is a very modern interpretation of Karma, based on the Wiccan law of return (the good and evil one creates will return as happyness or suffering). It can also be interpreted as overly Christian, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

 

However, you must bear in mind that by accepting this view of Karma, you also have to accept the idea that Karma is nothing more than a natural force. thereforeeee it does not have a consciousness and cannot make judgements about what is good and bad. Instead you could say that if there is a lot of positive enery being put into the world then one would be likely to receive some of that back, albeit in a different way.

 

Some might say that the reason you are not feeling this good energy back is because there is so much negative energy present in the world.

 

Other religions and belief systems theink of Karma in much different ways.

[Batya33]

Obviously bad things happen to good people - my cousin who lived her life to help others in her personal life and profession, who was a joy to be around, died of cancer two years ago and was diagnosed right before her wedding. She was 34. However, when you point to your successful friend, for example, you have no idea if he is truly happy and consider that if you know so much information about his successes it might be because he does not believe he is good enough on his own.

 

Life is not fair. It is a waste of time to dwell on that or to live your life in that mindset. I have seen the "karma" concept work time and time again in my own life and in that of others. When that does seem to work out and to "right" things I am grateful but I never expect that it will always be that way.

 

In addition, I think, as idealistic as it sounds, it is good to live your own life being considerate and thoughtful of others whether you are rewarded for it or otherwise or whether you see others rewarded for being obnoxious and greedy. It makes me feel better as a person when I take the high road and act consistent with my ethics and morals. When I've had a particularly bad day as in "life isn't fair!!" I make sure that in my nightly prayers I pray for those people who I have a hard time wishing well, to remind myself that it's not about comparisons or competition.

[renaissancewoman101]

dogheadma, your explaination actually makes sense when it comes to real life situations. The guy I know that is a cad and treats people like crap, he has a very high sense of self and has high self-esteem. Maybe his self-esteem is what attracts good things to happen to him. I treat people well and go out of my way to be there for others, and yet, I have a very low sense of self-esteem, so I tend to attract the negative things to happen to me.

 

Interesting take on things.

[Scotcha]

My take on Karma?

 

There are generally good people and generally bad people.

 

Good people and bad people can do both good and bad things.

 

Good things and bad things happen to EVERYONE.

 

If the company I work for starts to go under and I get laid off it's not because I stepped on someone or cut somebody down. And it's not because my boss did anything "bad" either other than possibly making some poor business choices.

 

When I fall in love and marry the man of my dreams it's not because I'm being rewarded for being the good girlfriend that I always was, even to guys who didn't treat me right or guys that ended up dumping me.. It's because I finally found a relationship that worked.

 

What I'm saying is.. I believe in cause and effect. And by following the rules you can keep yourself out of a lot of trouble... And I try to be the best person that I can be but not because I think it will get me somewhere.. That's just the kind of person I am. I have my joys and my sorrows.. But if the sorrow's I've had in my life were due to Karma.. I must have done something really very terribly wrong.

 

So Karma? I don't buy it. To me it's nothing but a phrase.

 

I've been known to say something along the lines of, "Karma's going to bight him in his behind," but really what I mean is that if someone continues to make poor choices they are going to end up with a poor outcome.

[Ellie2006]

Karma simply means....drum roll..

 

"CAUSE AND EFFECT!"

 

The accumulation of energies and belief systems. It certainly isn't "I do good so I get good back".

 

I agree; the thing is, though, sometimes there is NOT a direct and visible line leading from cause to effect; sometimes the trajectory from "cause" to "effect" is so convoluted that it is not immediately evident to us.

 

I don't know why but this kind of leads me to thinking about a thread that Easyguy posted about immediate/delayed gratification/happiness.

 

Yes, it is sometimes frustrating that we do not seem to receive immediate rewards for our perceived "good deed"

 

At the same time, I truly do believe, if you "accumulate good karma" and live your life with a positive outlook, you will be rewarded for it, though it may come delayed.

 

Just my two cents.

[renaissancewoman101]

Funny thing is that on ENA, I always see posters and advice givers telling the OP to "take the high road" when it comes to getting even with someone who wronged them (by cheating or whatever), since karma will get them back in the end (karma is a bear). From reading those posts, I get the feeling that "karma" is like your comeuppance for doing bad/good. Like the universe will right itself.

 

But then here, you guys say that that is not always the case, then why give the advice that "karma is a bear and karma will get them back in the end"?????

[Heretic]

I agree; the thing is, though, sometimes there is NOT a direct and visible line leading from cause to effect; sometimes the trajectory from "cause" to "effect" is so convoluted that it is not immediately evident to us.

 

I don't know why but this kind of leads me to thinking about a thread that Easyguy posted about immediate/delayed gratification/happiness.

 

Yes, it is sometimes frustrating that we do seem to receive immediate rewards for our perceived "good deed"

 

At the same time, I truly do believe, if you "accumulate good karma" and live your life with a positive outlook, you will be rewarded for it, though it may come delayed.

 

Just my two cents.

 

I think this is very true. I think the real problem is people forget to count their blessing. When I get the chance to see an old friend or to help someone in need that's the reward in and of itself in the majority of cases. Having the gratitude of a stranger... doesn't that mean something?

[Ellie2006]

But then here, you guys say that that is not always the case, then why give the advice that "karma is a bear and karma will get them back in the end"?????

 

Maybe the people responding to this thread and people giving the advice that "karma will get them back in the end" are not the same??

[renaissancewoman101]

I am not saying it is you guys who responded to my post that think that way, but it seems to be the pervading opinion on ENA that if someone does you wrong, like cheats on you, steals from you, treats you badly, etc., that they are advised not to take matters into their own hands and get revenge. Instead, the OP is advised to take the high road and live life fully and happily and "let karma take its path", since "karma is a bear".

 

I've seen that advocated many times on threads on ENA.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I am not saying it is you guys who responded to my post that think that way, but it seems to be the pervading opinion on ENA that if someone does you wrong, like cheats on you, steals from you, treats you badly, etc., that they are advised not to take matters into their own hands and get revenge. Instead, the OP is advised to take the high road and live life fully and happily and "let karma take its path", since "karma is a bear".

 

I think the idea behind that is that people who do wrong to others and treat them badly, will at some point in their life come accross a situation in which their behaviour will cause them great harm. Most of the time, people who treat others badly are not happy people, no matter what face they show to the world. Look deeper into what they say and how they behave and you will discover that there is real emptiness.

[Follow Me]

Karma? No good deed goes unpunished.

[agent1607307371]

The popular view of it is a force that will punish people who do bad things and reward people who do good.

 

The original concept of it can be explained like this; while I'm driving to work, I get cut up by a bad driver and it puts me in a bad mood. When I get to work I take my mood out on my co-workers and other people I come into contact with and put them in a bad mood which they then take out on others. From one persons bad mood you suddenly have a whole load of miserable people.

 

To the Buddhists and Hindi's it is regarded as something that we have to get out of by being aware of our actions and not letting other peoples actions affect us.

[easyguy]

To the Buddhists and Hindi's it is regarded as something that we have to get out of by being aware of our actions and not letting other peoples actions affect us.

 

Well put.

[renaissancewoman101]

I wish karma would do me some good sometimes.

 

I seem to get the short end of the stick in a lot of things, even when I put my mind to it and tell myself I can make it work (positive thinking). Doesn't turn out that way.

[Scotcha]

I am not saying it is you guys who responded to my post that think that way, but it seems to be the pervading opinion on ENA that if someone does you wrong, like cheats on you, steals from you, treats you badly, etc., that they are advised not to take matters into their own hands and get revenge. Instead, the OP is advised to take the high road and live life fully and happily and "let karma take its path", since "karma is a bear".

 

I've seen that advocated many times on threads on ENA.

 

 

 

The way I see it is that if someone cheats, lies, steals.. Well, those are character traits. And rarely do people with these traits have long lasting and meaningful relationships. They are traits that destroy relationships, not ones that would cause a relationship to grow and prosper.

[dogheadma]

I seem to get the short end of the stick in a lot of things, even when I put my mind to it and tell myself I can make it work (positive thinking). Doesn't turn out that way.

 

That's negative thinking. The most important thing about our successes and failures is that we take whatever knowledge away from them that we can in order to use it towards our own greater good in the future. That's positive thinking.

[renaissancewoman101]

I try to be positive about A LOT of things in my life. I try to do good for the sake of doing good, etc., still my life goes up in spades.

 

I never intentionally hurt people, always try to do good to others, yet not much good happens to me either.