Retroactive Infidelity.

[Luke Skywalker]

Women tend to like nice men.

 

Sure, that's why they friendzone them all the time.

 

FYI - I do believe that virginity is a gift, but I don't require it. I would only require love and monogamy. I also know that bitterness is NOT a gift to anyone. Let it go.

 

But eating sweets is NOT a gift either. One must have a balanced diet, and most foods that are good for you aren't that sweet.

[Luke Skywalker]

What if I saved myself for marriage and my husband turned into an abusive jerk? I'm ruined then? Or should I have stayed in a marriage where I was planning how to kill myself because I felt so small, worthless and pathetic? Sorry, I'd rather be a non-virgin "cheating" on a future spouse.

 

And what if your husband didn't?

 

At any rate, while I know many people enjoy sex as simply fun and I respect their views, that is not me. I wanted to wait, because for me, sex is something very personal. To me, its not just sharing my body, but my mind and heart as well. So, even though I am not religious, my personal morality says that for me, sex waits until things are VERY serious and monogamous. I would have been happy with just one partner my whole life, but things didn't work out that way.

 

I expect my future partner to accept sex as an extremely meaningful gift even if I am no longer a virgin. Because that is, to me, what it is.

 

Exactly - as the Bible says, two become one.

 

Notice even Juliana was silent on that one.

[caro33]

Came accross this today and thought it was interesting. Social research about how different people view loss of virginity, how they lost it etc. I have attached a link to a high level overview and also a link I found to an original article also. Not sure if the article directly relates to the overview in terms of timescale but it's the same researcher and a useful starting point for any of us wanting to better understand this issue.

 

link removed

 

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[Luke Skywalker]

I'm going out with a single mother, or intending to go out with her, so my views here dont necessarily reflect my lifestyle, and I have no issues about her past. Not yet anyway, but that's not my child and I ain't going to have ntohing to do with that, but it's ok, she said that's fine.

[caro33]

I'm going out with a single mother, or intending to go out with her, so my views here dont necessarily reflect my lifestyle, and I have no issues about her past. Not yet anyway, but that's not my child and I ain't going to have ntohing to do with that, but it's ok, she said that's fine.

 

You aren't going to have anything to do with the child? Do you mean even if this works out in the long term?

 

Is this the 18 yr old I have seen you mention in another post?

[Luke Skywalker]

Came accross this today and thought it was interesting. Social research about how different people view loss of virginity, how they lost it etc. I have attached a link to a high level overview and also a link I found to an original article also. Not sure if the article directly relates to the overview in terms of timescale but it's the same researcher and a useful starting point for any of us wanting to better understand this issue.

 

link removed

 

link removed

 

I read the first link in November myself, and it provided a helpful perspective. Back then, I viewed virginity as a stigma that had to be lost, now I view it as a gift at this time.

[Luke Skywalker]

You aren't going to have anything to do with the child? Do you mean even if this works out in the long term?

 

Is this the 18 yr old I have seen you mention in another post?

 

Yes this is the same 18 yr old. My mom wants me to have nothing to do with this because of the child factor. It's someone else's child - and the girl explained that he already has a father that's looking after it - I presume to be child support or something. I'm not sure this will work out in the long term - really, I'm not even into dating to that extent. But some of my best dating experiences on record came from a single mother, and a divorcee - the worst possible candidates, but I meet them anyway and I gave them a chance and both the dates ended lovely. I feel more like a man with the 18 yr, despite the fact she's a non-virgin - I think there are also sociological and economic factors aside from virgin/non-virgin and think that I feel the friction more acute when it's a person of Indian descent involved, but for non-Indians, I dont care about virgin/non-virgin to be honest.

 

It's something weird I cant figure out. My worst dating experiences have been with Indian girls or girls with any Indian blood in them, both virgin and non-virgin, and I cant put my finger o nit.

 

Like I said, something 'hit' me a few nights ago, and I wrote this thread and lavalife profile. As most people responding on here are non-Indian, I likely wouldn't care less about the virgin/non-virgin factor. I'm non-Indian myself, so like, I shouldn't like Indian girls, why would they seem to effect me then?

[caro33]

It's something weird I cant figure out. My worst dating experiences have been with Indian girls or girls with any Indian blood in them, both virgin and non-virgin, and I cant put my finger o nit.

 

Like I said, something 'hit' me a few nights ago, and I wrote this thread and lavalife profile. As most people responding on here are non-Indian, I likely wouldn't care less about the virgin/non-virgin factor. I'm non-Indian myself, so like, I shouldn't like Indian girls, why would they seem to effect me then?

 

I'm not sure what your question is. Are you asking why Indian girls affect you? Who knows. We all have our preferences. If perhaps you have chosen them in the past and you have not had much other experience it would be easier perhaps for you to say 'oh yes, Indian girls' when maybe what you experienced was just 'girls' (or 'women') who happened to be Indian.

 

As a side issue, are you on any medication, or seeing a counsellor/therapist?

[Luke Skywalker]

I'm not sure what your question is.

 

That is no question.

 

Are you asking why Indian girls affect you? Who knows. We all have our preferences. If perhaps you have chosen them in the past and you have not had much other experience it would be easier perhaps for you to say 'oh yes, Indian girls' when maybe what you experienced was just 'girls' (or 'women') who happened to be Indian.

 

I've had positive experiences with other type of girls - who were nonvirgins too, but also non-Indian, I'm trying to explore other concepts besides the virgin/non-virgin part.

 

I'm not actively dating, and my focus is more on my career. I'm introducing race as I now see there are more complex issues involved than just virgin/non-virgin and man/not feeling like a man, etc....

[Juliana]

"Bible interprets Bible. Again, what Jesus and Paul talk about is that TWO BECOME ONE."

 

And commonsense must have it's word as well; no five year old child who is raped can be said to have "become one" with someone. I assume Jesus and Paul thought that there was more to "becoming one" with someone than the act.

 

"THAT'S WHERE YOUR SOUL KEEPS DIVIDING - TWO DIVIDEDED BY TWO IS ONE. THUS IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN ONE LIFE-LONG PARTNER, HOW MANY DIVISIONS CAN YOU MAKE WITH YOUR SOUL?

 

DONT YOU SEE THE HOW THE SOUL IS SPLITTING UP - AND YOU CAN ONLY HAVE SEX WITH ONE PERSON, AND MUST WAIT FOR THE RIGHT PERSON - OR YOU ARE VIOLATING THE TWO EQUALS ONE DOCTRINE!!!!"

 

You can stop yelling at me; your points don't become any more true for being typed in all caps. As I said, your soul is not divisible. You can't lose part of it. You've made a leap in saying that that the Bible doesn't support or justify; it's extrabiblical. Added on.

 

"Then why do virgin women have a hymen that produces blood when ruptured"

 

I'm surprised that you don't know this, but not all do. This information is readily accessed on the net and elsewhere. Some women come virginal to the marriage bed without a hymen. Some bleed, some don't. Blood isn't a guarantee of anything.

 

"Let's constrain our argument to those who chose to give it up, rather than where it's forced - that's an excemption to that train of thought since the person is not morally responsible for the loss of virginity."

 

No, I don't think we can. You are proposing certain spiritual values to a physical state; as with your statements about blood. It is important to you that someone is physically virgin. When I brought up the early church as an example of people being completely cleansed and accepted by Jesus regardless of the physical state of their bodies, you flinched away from that idea, and claimed "association, not marriage."

 

But when one repents of something, and is forgiven by Christ, one is clean. The spiritual purity of the former * * * * * is not less than that of the virgin; all are equal in Christ. You can't say that some special meaning attaches to the physical virginity and leave out those who do not choose to lose it, but do.

[caro33]

That is no question.

 

 

 

I've had positive experiences with other type of girls - who were nonvirgins too, but also non-Indian, I'm trying to explore other concepts besides the virgin/non-virgin part.

 

I'm not actively dating, and my focus is more on my career. I'm introducing race as I now see there are more complex issues involved than just virgin/non-virgin and man/not feeling like a man, etc....

 

But what is the overall logic framework or topic then? Are you trying to identify your feelings and values re dating and sexuality/race and then understand them? If so, what is your starting point: how are we to best address these issues with you?

 

I see Juliana has also just responded to you. I guess I leave it to you to define a further thread if you want to go beyond the debate about virginity and the Bible.

[Luke Skywalker]

I honestly do not know why I started this thread. Like I said, something just hit me and I wrote this and put up an ad on lavalife (which is still there and getting no response - think I'll take it out or something later since it's likely to be as controversial as on here and it appears I'm softening up).

[Caterina]

Did you fall in love with an Indian girl that turned you down or something? It sounds like you have issues with women, especially Indian girls for some reason.

[Juliana]

"I honestly do not know why I started this thread."

 

Well, I for one am glad that you did. Perhaps this is selfish of me, but I've never had an opportunity to see just how Word of Faith Theology and Curse/Deliverance Theology hang together and support one another. I am glad you gave me this opportunity to do some research into this, and learn something new. It's an absolutely fascinating glimpse at a heresy that is so widespread, yet unrecognized as such.

[metro_girl]

I think it's great if you want to stay a virgin until you're married. You'll meet the person who is right for you. Don't feel like a freak, either. Sometimes people who tell you that it's odd are just jealous because they didn't have a choice in the matter when they lost their innocence, or they really regret it, but know that they can't get it back.

 

When you don't put the physical part of your relationship ahead of everything else, you'll find the person who is really right for you. You won't be controlled by your hormones. Unfortunately, we live in a world today where people think it's more normal that you've had six sexual partners, maybe two kids by two different people, and have lived with someone for a few years before you really settle down. And if you don't have those sexual experiences, well, then you're just immature. I think it's the opposite. You're showing maturity by making a decision to wait until you're married.

[Luke Skywalker]

Did you fall in love with an Indian girl that turned you down or something? It sounds like you have issues with women, especially Indian girls for some reason.

 

I dont know what happened. I went out with three Indian girls last year that were Indian, and other races. It seems that when going out with someone with an Indian background there always seems to be some sort of friction.

 

I went out with another non-Indian girl, and couldn't care less about her sexual history, in fact the matter bored me, even though she went with a few guys before, I didn't have a second thought about it or care and was her friend for a while.

 

When it was with an Indian girl from Bradford, or another one, then it seems it's more of an issue with me. Anyway, this site is well aware of my feelings for one particular person that I was so obsessed with that I have written several threads just about her on various sections. See, I dont like making generalisations from my personal experiences - it's just a coincidence maybe, but I'm not gun-ho to date another 'cinnamon' coloured girl.

[Luke Skywalker]

I think it's great if you want to stay a virgin until you're married. You'll meet the person who is right for you. Don't feel like a freak, either. Sometimes people who tell you that it's odd are just jealous because they didn't have a choice in the matter when they lost their innocence, or they really regret it, but know that they can't get it back.

 

So you think people who are making some of the replies to this thread are jealous because I and other people on here are virgins?

 

When you don't put the physical part of your relationship ahead of everything else, you'll find the person who is really right for you. You won't be controlled by your hormones. Unfortunately, we live in a world today where people think it's more normal that you've had six sexual partners, maybe two kids by two different people, and have lived with someone for a few years before you really settle down. And if you don't have those sexual experiences, well, then you're just immature. I think it's the opposite. You're showing maturity by making a decision to wait until you're married.

 

I see. I understand the norm of things and why people may feel the way they feel about the subject. I still think for people who are still virgins, including myself, should wait until married. There were times I have been enticed to lose my virginity thinking that I will never get married since no woman can want me so I wouldn't be cheating on someone who can never exist. I'd imagine you wouldn't be cheating if there was no chance of getting married in the future if nobody wants you - however, at this time, I cant entertain that diabolical negative thought, and wont allow that lie to exist - it's also a lack of faith to think that way too.

[Honey Pumpkin]

So you think people who are making some of the replies to this thread are jealous because I and other people on here are virgins?

 

I don't think so - for some reason, it seems that virginity matters a LOT to people who have hung on to it for a long time in adult life, and not to people who haven't.

 

This has been an interesting thread, but it seems to me that it's a lot to hang your identity on. Whether you are or are not a virgin. I would be surprised if a guy I liked was in his thirties and a virgin, but that would be okay. I wouldn't be grateful though, I would just try not to judge either way. However, what I would be wary about - and I'm going to be honest here - is your attitude towards women, and your relationship with your mother, that she dominates a lot of what you think. That would be much more of an issue for me than virginity.

 

I suppose I wouldn't judge someone for being a virgin, that's their personal choice. But equally I wouldn't congratulate them for it either. It's up to them.

[Luke Skywalker]

However, what I would be wary about - and I'm going to be honest here - is your attitude towards women, and your relationship with your mother, that she dominates a lot of what you think. That would be much more of an issue for me than virginity.

 

My mother has a right to dominate what I think and what I'm doing, since I'm living under her roof and she's paying the bills and she invested in me. It would break her heart if I lost my virginity with anyone I'm not married to, especially if it's someone I meet from adultfriendfinder (which I almost did last November).

 

I suppose I wouldn't judge someone for being a virgin, that's their personal choice. But equally I wouldn't congratulate them for it either. It's up to them.

 

You've never meet or dated anyone that was a virgin?

[annie24]

what concerns me is how much you are DEFINING yourself by your virginity. I mean, what are you proud of yourself for, big picture? some people frame themselves as artists, or as athletes, or human rights activitsts or religious. You can't "lose" any of those things. However, you can lose your virginity, you don't have it anymore, so how will you define yourself? Because right now, it seems your virginity is the most important thing in your life, but it is something that can be gone in an instant.

 

What else makes you "YOU" in your life?

[Luke Skywalker]

what concerns me is how much you are DEFINING yourself by your virginity.

 

That thought is only echoed on this thread, and perhaps threads in the SEX AND ROMANCE section where I was present last November and am no longer in that section anymore. As this thread is dealing with retroactive infidelity and the concept of virginity as a gift, then that's how it's being held.

 

I mean, what are you proud of yourself for, big picture?

 

Ideally, pride is sinful. One can not be proud about anything other than a proper relationship with God, since God deserves the glory in everything. Pride is taking from God's blessings and attributing 'self' to them, which is sinful, since God has produced the opportunity of blessings and the resolve to pursue such opportunities also comes from God.

 

some people frame themselves as artists, or as athletes, or human rights activitsts or religious. You can't "lose" any of those things.

 

Sure you can. If a physical injury took place in an artist's hands, or athelete, then they can lose their ability. Human rights activitsts and religious, I dont know, depends on the personal conviction.

 

However, you can lose your virginity, you don't have it anymore, so how will you define yourself? Because right now, it seems your virginity is the most important thing in your life, but it is something that can be gone in an instant.

 

No that's not true. It's something that has to be fought for. For a woman it can be gone in an instant, but not for a man. It's interesting the November threads will feature a 'fight to lose virginity' where I fold at the last minute once an opportunity presents itself as a result of the fight of challenge. Even a hooker could be difficult if you have no money and you have to fight to raise enough money which sometimes may be impossible so it's not something that can be gone in an instant.

 

However, I think we are twisting the concepts of this thread. This is not about defining myself on my virginity or how hard it is to lose it, especially if I dont have the resolve to do so.

 

What else makes you "YOU" in your life?

 

I guess I'm a fighter in some ways and enjoy winning even more.

[annie24]

why can't virginity be gone in an instant for a man? i mean, as soon as he has sex for the first time, he is no longer a virgin.

 

I think it is fine to have an emphasis on being religious. that to me makes a lot more sense than putting an emphasis on being a virgin.

 

i think that you aren't getting replies to your ad because you are so focused on the virginity in that profile you put up. As opposed to if you had put up a profile saying, "Hi - I'm an old-fashioned, christian man, looking for a like minded woman."

[Luke Skywalker]

why can't virginity be gone in an instant for a man? i mean, as soon as he has sex for the first time, he is no longer a virgin.

 

It's not easy to have sex for the first time. Didn't you see how difficult it was based on my own journal logs on threads on SEX AND ROMANCE section based in November. It took me like close to 20-30 days to find a few prospects. Look at Squarewheel, he cant find one prospect.

 

 

I think it is fine to have an emphasis on being religious. that to me makes a lot more sense than putting an emphasis on being a virgin.

 

They are both tied together. It is considered spiritual to avoid the carnal allurements of the world and to stay chaste.

 

i think that you aren't getting replies to your ad because you are so focused on the virginity in that profile you put up. As opposed to if you had put up a profile saying, "Hi - I'm an old-fashioned, christian man, looking for a like minded woman."

 

Well, possibly, but usually, if I did put such an ad, I still dont get any smileys, and if I do it's once in a blue moon.

 

I haven't done any smiley campaigns given the controversial nature of my ad but just left it there just for impact. The idea of impact is, it's better to have a negative impact than no impact at all, and if it ruffles some people's features, then so be it. But I'm not going on a dating site to pick fights and discuss things, which I'm doing for free here anyway.

[annie24]

It's not easy to have sex for the first time. Didn't you see how difficult it was based on my own journal logs on threads on SEX AND ROMANCE section based in November. It took me like close to 20-30 days to find a few prospects. Look at Squarewheel, he cant find one prospect.

 

no, losing your viriginity means having sex. you lose it in an instant. finding someone to date is a different story. so why you think that it takes men longer to lose their viriginity than women is kind of strange. i mean, you lose it when you have sex for the first time, you don't count the amount of time it took to find dating/hooking up prospects.

 

 

They are both tied together. It is considered spiritual to avoid the carnal allurements of the world and to stay chaste.

 

spiritual? by whose standards? it depends on your religion and brand of spirituality. and physical relations between a husband and wife are a great thing.

 

 

Well, possibly, but usually, if I did put such an ad, I still dont get any smileys, and if I do it's once in a blue moon.

 

I think you need to work on more self-improvement. you said you are overweight and live with your parents and do not have a steady income. those things are working more to your detriment in finding a relationship than your virginity.

[Luke Skywalker]

no, losing your viriginity means having sex. you lose it in an instant. finding someone to date is a different story. so why you think that it takes men longer to lose their viriginity than women is kind of strange. i mean, you lose it when you have sex for the first time, you don't count the amount of time it took to find dating/hooking up prospects.

 

A woman, as in even quietgirl's case, will easily get a hookup on the internet possibly the first day she puts an ad. In a sense, it would seem that a woman can lose her virginity by placing an ad on the internet, or going to a loose venue where she would get hit on allot. While a guy on the other hand (I'm referring to a non-popular guy), will have a difficult time trying to do the same thing.

 

Let's just say, that I have yet to see any woman write a thread chronicalling their challenges to find one guy that is willing to have sex with them, but you'll see guys, such as myself, posting threads like that to solidify my point.

 

spiritual? by whose standards? it depends on your religion and brand of spirituality. and physical relations between a husband and wife are a great thing.

 

I was referring to pre-maritial and extra-maritial sex. Marriage is encouraged in the bible.

 

I think you need to work on more self-improvement. you said you are overweight and live with your parents and do not have a steady income. those things are working more to your detriment in finding a relationship than your virginity.

 

Yup, you said that before on the 'American Pie' thread, I remember.