The Date Canceller is history!

[ImThatGirl]

I'm curious to know what lessons you've learned from this. If you wouldn't mind sharing.

 

What I've seen here is you get very angry and admit to crying on the phone for over an hour to someone that didn't put it out there that he was available. Can you imagine what he thought after you hung up? I doubt it was anywhere near "I feel bad for doing this to her." Keep your dignity. More often than not, if someone isn't interested, they are probably sitting on the phone because they feel bad about hanging up. But we keep them on the phone so we can give them an earful of how they hurt us.

 

If I have learned one thing in the dating world, it is to listen when told someone isn't interested. If you don't listen, and you continue to pursue, then you basically allow them to take advantage of your vulnerability. Is it right? No not really. But it will happen if you allow it.

 

Secondly, I've seen you be completely angry at a guy that you called a cry baby because he was courteous to communicate in a manner that wasn't acceptable to you. Once again, harsh.

 

Quite honestly, I think you need to toughen up and stop getting emotionally involved so quickly. Dates are like interviews. Relationships are not guaranteed.

 

I've dated and dated and dated. And you know what, I'm sure I've played the victim a couple times when I was younger. But at 28, I am the first to admit, I am responsible for my own emotions and allowing people to get to me. I'm the first to admit that I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions or chased after someone that wasn't into me.

 

I don't give in to anger. It's a waste of my time and I refuse to waste the energy I need (for life and my children,) negatively.

[bighair]

I'm curious to know what lessons you've learned from this. If you wouldn't mind sharing.

 

What I've seen here is you get very angry and admit to crying on the phone for over an hour to someone that didn't put it out there that he was available. Can you imagine what he thought after you hung up? I doubt it was anywhere near "I feel bad for doing this to her."

 

 

Secondly, I've seen you be completely angry at a guy that you called a cry baby because he was courteous to communicate in a manner that wasn't acceptable to you. Once again, harsh.

 

Quite honestly, I think you need to toughen up and stop getting emotionally involved so quickly. Dates are like interviews. Relationships are not guaranteed.

 

 

I didn't cry for more than an hour. I talked to him for 10 minutes.

 

And, for the last time, I went out on a date with someone and HE CRIED about his child. This behavior is inapporpriate. WE were on a date. I'm not his therapist. I owe him nothing. He was irresponsible because he is not ready to date, he put out a profile for the world to see, and people don't want to criticize him at all. He is not ready to be involved with anyone.

 

I'm not defending myself any more on the man who cried on the shoulder of a complete stranger. Hey..it was uncomfortable for me, and I certainly did not go out on a date be a therapist.

 

LEt's remember that you don't know me. YOu think you do because of these posts. I am not mean, I am not cruel. I am trying to get thru dating like all of you.

 

I have been repeatedly attacked for some of the things I said. I am getting ready to leave enotalone because I have not felt supported esp. with that last post about a complete stranger who cried during a first date.

 

You'll understand why i won't get into the lessons learned from the date canceler. I'm sure I'll only be criticized, attacked and really not heard.

[ImThatGirl]

I'm honestly sorry that my words hurt you. I am not a mean person at all either. I never said you were mean. I'm concerned about you.

 

Some of the harsh reality you are dealing with, I've dealt with and got past already.

 

I had to learn the hard way, Bighair. I didn't have anyone grab me by the shoulders and tell me to pick myself up each time I fell. I had friends and family that focused on telling me, comforting me, and reassured me that I am a wonderful person and that guy (and that guy, and that one, and that other one,) shouldn't have mislead me, should have been honest, put me through the ringer yadayadayada.

 

I finally figured out on my own that it was all a waste of my energy.

 

Now mind you, this applies to "dating" only, I feel differently about serious relationships where promises and commitment has been made. Dating is really like a game. People are quirky. They make up their own rules without being considerate of others. In today's society, dating is almost a game with all the options (internet, etc. etc. etc.) People just don't pay respect to others like they used to.

 

Now.... sometime I may post a thread about what I've learned from dating. Trials and tribulations of the dating game.... I think it's important that we make points of what we've learned thereforeeee maybe helping other people in the future. Gaining knowledge - is something we all need. And that's what I enjoy about these boards. That's why I'm here.

[Weeblie]

Hey BigHair...I'll say it. JOE SUCKS.

 

Screw lessons. Screw books and screw all this inward crap. I've been through a similar situation recently and I've bought the books. I've tried to see what was the lesson. I've tried to analyze what I did wrong. See what kind of negative signals I had been sending out. See what I could've done differently blah blah blah. And you know what? I learned that sometimes it's ok to say that the problem wasn't me. It was him.

 

And those books...the rules...he's just not into...

BLAH! Real life is NOT like that. The whole game playing thing is stupid. When two people click they break all the rules. I'm sure everyone on this thread can look back on their past relationships and find one example where none of those games would've applied or worked.

 

Anyways, I searched all over Amazon for this. Back in the day I'd read the negative reviews because they always made me feel hopeful about things. I know I'm weird. I don't think this review applies to the Joe situation at all, but it's proof that those stupid rules/games don't apply.

[bighair]

Hi Weeblie -

 

Thanks for sending me that review. It was good to hear it. I was in a Borders not that long ago and I started looking at these books. I just couldn't bear to read them because I don't find it helpful.

 

Thanks for saying that Joe sucks. He certainly does suck.

[Lady Bugg]

Hey Bh!!!!!!

 

 

Joe Sucks The Big One!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bighair]

Hey Bugg - Thanks! YOu always know the right thing to say to me!!!

[annie24]

does joe really suck?

 

this is something that I've come accross only recently in the 2 years I have been a member on enotalone. A female will write about a male member, and I pipe in "he sucks!!!" and then .... it turns out the guy is a member here too I've gotten PMs from "the other side of the story". And once they told me their point of view, I've felt very embarresed.

 

There really are 2 sides to every story. Now, I'm guessing that joe isn't a member here, but who knows? Maybe he would say, "Bighair - she's a great woman, but.... I just don't want to date her." does that make him a bad person?

 

I don't want to sound harsh, but does he really suck? I mean, it's not as if you two were ever exclusive. It's not like you were married and he cheated on you, as many members here have gone through. You dated, it didn't work out, and the situation sucks, but I don't think it's fair to condemn him as a person just because he doesn't want to pursue a relationship with you.

[bighair]

he doesn't have to pursue a relationship wtih me. but, he was all over the map with his intentions and feelings, one day he was interested, and the next day he wasn't. so i'm sorry, i have to tell you, he didn't treat me very well. there are always 2 sides to every story. that's true. but, his ambivalence caused me a great deal of pain and stress.

[Lady Bugg]

I was being facetious...of course I don't know if Joe really sucks.

There are ALWAYS two sides to the story...unfortunately I am only hearing one. BH has acknowledged her part in things. I don't think she is trying to condemn him.....she just simply wants someone to support her.

Sometimes it's good to just hear someone say...he was a shmuck. ..because it feels better. I don't think it's fair to pick a poster apart because who just needs to feel better.

 

If "Joe" posted here..and told his version of the story I am certain everyones opinions would sway or alter...but Joe is not here. I think we should focus on the posters needs..not the other persons.

[annie24]

yeah, I think that is the big lesson here. I definitely understand where you are coming from, because I've been there too. something that I've learned from similar situations is not to get my hopes up about any guy until I've met him in person about 3 times or so and he has PROVED to me that he is reliable. until then, I try not to get attached to him, or expect him to do anything, or act in any reliable manner.

 

"The proof is in the pudding" as they say. if a guy is acting unreliably, forget him. no need to waste your time on that. if a guy is being reliable (ie, showing up for dates, calling when he says he will), then he sounds like a candidate. otherwise, there are so many flakes on the internet, you will go crazy if you invest time and emotions in them.

[annie24]

If "Joe" posted here..and told his version of the story I am certain everyones opinions would sway or alter...but Joe is not here. I think we should focus on the posters needs..not the other persons.

 

well, I am just trying to be objective. I know that I have turned down perfectly nice guys because I didn't want to pursue a relationship with them. does that mean I suck? I know Bighair posted recently about a nice guy she met, but she didn't feel the chemistry with, so she turned him down. Does she suck? I think that most people have had to turn down someone's advances, but that doesn't make them a bad person. I just want to put things in perspective.

[Lady Bugg]

BH...I canm certainly identify with your situation. Someone who is up and down...and "ambivalent" can make you wanna pull your hair out. Remember..that was HIS fault and HIS issues. I don't think you were wrong to need that "closure" call with him.

I think now it's important to close that door.....and focus on other possibilities. We can't force a peg into a round hole. If it doesn't fit..it doesn't fit.

[Lady Bugg]

Yes...but this is someone BH was intimate with..granted it was NOT a comitted relationship..I could STILL see how his "moodiness" would aggravate her. She has already addressed that issue as well.

I don't think anyone "sucks" because they don't want a relationship with someone..but what DOES make them suck is if they manipulate, lie, or deceive you into believeing there may be a chance if in fact there is NOT.

I think THAT is the part she is referring to about "sucking".

[bighair]

well, I am just trying to be objective. I know that I have turned down perfectly nice guys because I didn't want to pursue a relationship with them. does that mean I suck? I know Bighair posted recently about a nice guy she met, but she didn't feel the chemistry with, so she turned him down. Does she suck? I think that most people have had to turn down someone's advances, but that doesn't make them a bad person. I just want to put things in perspective.

 

I turned someone down after a 1.5 hour date at a coffee house. Joe and I talked for nearly 4 months, had a great date, we exchanged a lot of emotional intimacies....and well, it's simply not the same thing.

 

Joe is a decent person. But, he was not so decent to me.

[annie24]

well.... you know what, I feel like it's high time we all stopped accepting bad behavior and rewarding it. I think that there are so many jerks out there, because people let them be jerks. I think if we all just stopped accepting bad behavior, and raised the bar, there would be a lot more better behaved men out there. ie, if a guy is flakey, don't get serious about him or get physical with him unless he proves his reliablity.

[bighair]

I was being facetious...of course I don't know if Joe really sucks.

There are ALWAYS two sides to the story...unfortunately I am only hearing one. BH has acknowledged her part in things. I don't think she is trying to condemn him.....she just simply wants someone to support her.

Sometimes it's good to just hear someone say...he was a shmuck. ..because it feels better. I don't think it's fair to pick a poster apart because who just needs to feel better.

 

If "Joe" posted here..and told his version of the story I am certain everyones opinions would sway or alter...but Joe is not here. I think we should focus on the posters needs..not the other persons.

 

I completely acknowledge my part in things. I know I continued to see Joe even after the date cancellations. I wanted to play things out with him because we had spent so much time talking to one another...and I liked him. Sure, there are things I could have done better and surely intend on being better the next time around.

 

But, in my defense, I was always honest w. Joe. Even after he panicked and brought up the future, I said I'd like the chance to know him better. I'm not prepared to discuss the future yet. AFter he panicked about the distance, I responded, look, it's too early in the game to get worked up about that. So, I've tried to keep my wits about me. And, I even walked away after he did that. HE continued to pursue and expressed his interest in me. And, AGAIN, he panics and bails.

 

Look, guys, I made some mistakes. But, how about some support for the home team here??? He really was ambivalent and I saw even confronted him on his indecision after the 1st blow off. Sometimes, I regret not fully honoring my instincts, but again, I liked him and I wanted to spend time with him.

 

So, I am not some child who expects all her little friends to agree with her. I'm a responsible adult. I know my limits, but come on Annie, Joe behaved badly. PLain and simple.

[annie24]

yeah, I'll give you that, he behaved badly.

 

if I were in your shoes, and I met another guy like this on link removed... this is what I would do. If we had a coffee date planned where we met halfway, and he cancelled and was flakey (ie, he didn't cancel because he had to drive his brother to the hospital), I would give him one more chance. This time, he would have to drive to see me, take me out to a real dinner date, and PROVE that he was serious dating me. When someone acts like a flake, you gotta set the bar higher.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I know I continued to see Joe even after the date cancellations. I wanted to play things out with him because we had spent so much time talking to one another...and I liked him. Sure, there are things I could have done better and surely intend on being better the next time around.

 

I think there are no hard and fast rules. You saw other things in his character that you liked so you decided to see how things would play out. Sometimes people who cancel dates in the beginning, change their attitude as they get to know someone. I don't think you did anything wrong by giving him the benefit of the doubt. I don't think it is fair to say that if someone shows unreliability in the beginning, this is the way it will always be....that is like saying that someone, who at the beginning shows keen interest, is always reliable and runs after the woman, will always be like that. As many posts on this board show, sometimes it is the real keeners who end up bailing over time. I think it is always important to try so that this way you never have regrets of "what if I had tried".

[annie24]

I see your point. many people come on strong in the beginning and at the end, it is not like that anymore.

 

however, you also have to remember that people are on their best behavior in the beginning of a relationship, and if this is their best behavior, YIKES!

 

I also believe in giving the benefit of the doubt, but I also believe in not letting people treat you badly. Like the saying goes, 'people will treat you as badly as you let them."

[ImThatGirl]

I see your point. many people come on strong in the beginning and at the end, it is not like that anymore.

 

however, you also have to remember that people are on their best behavior in the beginning of a relationship, and if this is their best behavior, YIKES!

 

I also believe in giving the benefit of the doubt, but I also believe in not letting people treat you badly. Like the saying goes, 'people will treat you as badly as you let them."

 

I second this. All women (and men) need to give themselves more credit and stand up for what they want and deserve. If we give people the benefit of doubt in the beginning, chances are they are going to make that "acceptable behavior" during the relationship.

 

Ex:

Some that says distance is too much. It probably is and that may be the end of the relationship.

If they say they don't see being in a relationship with you. Believe them. Why put effort forth for someone that has already said this?

If they cancel dates. They don't respect you like they should. Will they ever?

 

I have dated for 3 years. I dropped some people fast. I'm sure alot of people dislike me because I didn't respond to their voiced desire of being in a relationship with me. I was honest with them. I exited and didn't give response to their constant "wish for something more." I've also dated people and told them I didn't want a serious relationship. I enjoyed the friendship. Is that so wrong? At the end, they felt I had mislead them. I was honest with them. Bottom Line.

 

There are some good queues to know whether a relationship is even possible. Some of us have learned those rules. It would be great if we could let our hearts lead us (giving in to benefit of doubt.) But if we continuously do this, we may continuously have our hearts stomped on. I choose to think with my mind before letting my heart get involved. Might mean alot of "no-go's" quickly but it saves energy and grief in the end.

[bighair]

Hi, thank you for your post. I do like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I don't think there are hard and fast rules and I don't see the world in all or nothing kind of way. There are so many grey areas because people are people and life is strange.

 

But, the bottom line with dating is that you have to kiss a lot of frogs to get to a prince. It's sounds really kinda lame and cliche. I'm trying to develop this attitude that dating is just a way of meeting people, a weeding out process, a screening process, and that it could be fun.

 

Sometimes, I feel like a I don't have time for fun any more because I am 37 years old and my fun window closed on my fingers when I was with my ex. So, i always have to remind myself that the things I am striving for: marriage, family...just takes time and getting to know someone just takes time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree that one should date smartly and we should be using our heads. But, there is something to be said for letting your guard down and just letting things happen. Sure, you should be vigilant when you meet someone. Let's not be so guarded that we pass opportunities by and we're not allowing someone into our lives. I guess what upsets me the most about Joe is that he really didn't give me a chance. He was worried about distance, the future...he focused on the negatives and just looking for reasons why a rel. w. me wouldn't work. He didn't stop to look at some of the positives: we got a long, we had quite a few things in common in terms of our family backgrounds, interests...we made each other laugh...

 

So, sure, think about protecting yourself but don't be so closed off to love either.

[Scout]

I don't agree that letting a guy know you like him is a mistake.

 

Neither do I. Sure, we risk putting our feelings out there when we do, but dishonest behavior and games rarely end in happy results.

 

Bighair, I am sure you had valid reasons to feel there was a connection with Joe. What were the things you liked about Joe, liked about your conversations, etc.? I'm a firm believer that we should know what we do want in partners, not just what we don't want. So, remembering the positives about Joe will help down the road as you meet others.

 

Another poster said something about how it sucks when we feel a real connection with someone, that they decide not to pursue. It does suck, and it's very confusing to try and figure out. I know you won't be able to help but give this a lot of thought, but try not to drive yourself crazy coming up with all the possible answers. Bottom line, this guy is unable to give you the reciprocal energy and feelings required for the secure and fulfilling relationship that you want (and WILL find!)

[Scout]

it hurt when he said he didn't think i was the one for him. it did. i know we say we have to develop a thick skin when it comes to dating. but, it still sucks to hear that.

 

he just sent so many mixed signals....just yesterday, he told me he wanted to see me...i don't get it. he plays games.

 

I don't get it either, and I know it hurts. On the other hand, at least he told you, even if it hurt hearing it. Before I met my current boyfriend, I briefly dated someone else that I thought I had a connection with, too. He seemed to feel the same, but then one day he just disappeared into the void...no explanation, nothing. Talk about having the rug pulled out from underneath you! I HATE the "Disappearing Act" and it's equally annoying relative, "The Fade Out."

[bighair]

Hi Scout -

 

Well, I felt a connection with him because we had some similar interests: recreational activities. We share similar views regarding our families. We are both tight w. our parents. We both have black sheep siblings and we bonded over that..... The stress they caused for our families. He listened when I talked about some of my job stressors. We had chemistry in that we could make each other laugh. It was fun.

 

I know I shouldn't obsess over why he doesn't want to reciprocate. But, everything was always so on and off with him. He was interested, he wasn't interested. He was very affectionate, then very rejective. He sent that get lost email to me one day after sending a bunch of affectionate emails. It's all very hurtful and frustrating.

 

I know that he really doesn't want a relationship with anyone. Part of me fears that he doesn't want to have one because I'm not good enough. YOu know..that tomorrow, or the next day, he'll meet someone who totally does it for him, and he'll fall in love with her, marry her...and that...I did something or didn't do something to make uninterested in me.

 

These are the thoughts I'm struggling with.