Male friends: Is it possible?

[OceanEyes]

I actually strongly disagree, that just because a woman prefers to have male friends, that she is basically an insecure attention-hoor. I'm sure that there ARE women out there who fall into that category, but I actually do love having my female friends too. Nothing compares to some quality girl-time, nothing!

 

With guys, there is just something so simple and fun about hanging out with guys. I will often spend time with my boyfriend's friends and have an absolute BLAST because they're so vulgar and hilarious at times.

 

It really depends. Catty, fake women who are always criticizing, or never seem happy unless they are complaining about another women can take a flying leap. There's nothing worse than a catty chick with too much time and not enough happiness in her own life. Anybody who takes that much time to judge other people is just sad. And there are a LOT of them out there.

[CarnelianButterfly]

I'm pretty much ready to just give up

 

and the attitude I am getting from the girls here is just confirming things to me, I got the same from her "I am not responsible for your feelings inside, that is your own problem you have to work out, I never told you I was attracted to you"

 

the sad thing is, she told me a few times at least that I was attractive, so it is an even more painful rejection to me because she basically was saying I am attractive, thereforeeee there must be a personality reason deep inside that is her reason for rejecting me, and that is painful to know, unworthy

She isn't responsible for how you feel, she only controls her own emotions and you control yours. And yes you do have to work it out because it is your problem, no one else has to take care of you, you are not an infant.

 

Being attractive and being attracted are two different things. The main point would be that as attractive is an adjective that describes your appearance or personality it in no way means "I want you as a Boyfriend". You don't have to be attracted to someone you find attractive, its like wanting serious relationships with every cute person you've come accross or person that made you laugh. I find many women attractive, but I'm not gay, so I'm not attracted to them.

[OceanEyes]

and the attitude I am getting from the girls here is just confirming things to me, I got the same from her "I am not responsible for your feelings inside, that is your own problem you have to work out, I never told you I was attracted to you"

 

Do you think that I assume that every guy who pays me a compliment is after me? Do you think that, just because someone says something nice to you to brighten up your day, that they are secretly in love with you?

 

I'm getting a real sense that you're very upset that this girl doesn't feel the same way that you do. You can't get mad at someone just because they don't recipocate your feelings. That's the way life goes sometimes. It happens to everyone and you can't harbour resentment because of it or blame someone for their feelings.

[CarnelianButterfly]

I am 100% behind you on this. Most of my female friends would be too. We have male friends because we are in a male dominated degree program. If we don't make friends with men, we would have very lonely and sad lives because there are less that 20% women out thousands of students. How are we being catty by seeking friends?

[Scout]

I actually strongly disagree, that just because a woman prefers to have male friends, that she is basically an insecure attention-hoor. I'm sure that there ARE women out there who fall into that category, but I actually do love having my female friends too. Nothing compares to some quality girl-time, nothing!

 

With guys, there is just something so simple and fun about hanging out with guys. I will often spend time with my boyfriend's friends and have an absolute BLAST because they're so vulgar and hilarious at times.

 

 

Right, I agree with what you're saying, but what I was talking about were women who flat out say they just don't like other women at all. Those are the ones I worry about!

 

I also agree that guys are simpler in many ways to hang out with. They don't get as sensitive about certain issues, like our women friends sometimes can.

[monsieur]

just be aware that if you are attractive that every single one of these guys has something else in the back of their minds, I'm not talking about sex either, just the desire to get together and love

[monsieur]

I'm getting a real sense that you're very upset that this girl doesn't feel the same way that you do. You can't get mad at someone just because they don't recipocate your feelings. That's the way life goes sometimes. It happens to everyone and you can't harbour resentment because of it or blame someone for their feelings.

 

I don't resent her or be angry with her at all, it is more an overwhelming sense of despair and hurt inside. How can I be mad at her when it is my shortcomings that are why she doesn't want me for more? It is just that much more depressing to be rejected and I really don't buy the arguments that there is nothing wrong with me or that she and I werent right.... I know for a fact if I was more charming and confident that I would be in with her, but I am not so I am left to wallow in the failure and live with the rejection, which is personal.,.,, and it will happen to me again with the next one, if I give it a chance.

[Scout]

I know for a fact if I was more charming and confident that I would be in with her, but I am not so I am left to wallow in the failure and live with the rejection, which is personal.

 

You know, I consider myself very capable of being funny and charming, but there are certain people who I feel so insecure around, I freeze and become a mute, lol.

 

Maybe if you make a point to hang out with people you perceive as less intimidating, you can continue to polish your conversational and social skills, and who knows? Maybe some day when you run into her, you'll really impress her. Or, you'll meet someone well before than day and won't even be thinking about this girl one day.

 

Sorry, didn't mean to digress from this thread...but just don't want you to give up on yourself! The one thing that is constant is change.

[Lonelyinasmalltown]

Funny how things can get off topic so quick.

 

I think what's been said so far (from the men) is that we sometimes fall for you women friends and to "prevent" us from doing so, just be careful not to send any mixed signals. Sometimes it happens despite everyone's wishes though, including the man's.

 

From the women, we've heard that you don't think you're sending off mixed signals and you don't appreciate it too much when a man moves on beyond wanting just friends. ESPECIALLY when they won't let go of how they feel and try to drag down your current relationship.

 

Both sides have very good points IMHO. I think what we all need to realize (both men and women) is that whe all have different ways of how we treat our friends. Women treat their friends closely. To a man this can be misunderstood as flirting. Men have a tendency to be a little more standoffish with their friends. Let's face it, if two big burly guy friends run up to each other hugged and kissed each other on the cheek, you would raise an eyebrow.

 

Where's the happy center? I have no clue. If I did I'd write a book and make millions. All we can really do is be observant and watch our own behaviour.

[Iceman26]

Where's the happy center? I have no clue. If I did I'd write a book and make millions. All we can really do is be observant and watch our own behaviour.

 

This made me think of a line from the movie "War Games"

 

The only way to win is not to play.

[CamGuy]

THis can all be easily explained by two things. Chris Rock and When harry met sally. I love this dialgoue between Meg Ryan and Billy Crystal:

 

Sally: We are just going to be friends, OK?

Harry: Great, friends. It's the best thing...You realize, of course, that we can never be friends.

Sally: Why not?

Harry: What I'm saying is - and this is not a come-on in any way, shape, or form - is that men and women can't be friends, because the sex part always gets in the way.

Sally: That's not true. I have a number of men friends and there is no sex involved.

Harry: No, you don't.

Sally: Yes, I do.

Harry: No, you don't.

Sally: Yes, I do.

Harry: You only think you do.

Sally: You're saying I'm having sex with these men without my knowledge?

Harry: No, what I'm saying is they all want to have sex with you.

Sally: They do not.

Harry: Do too.

Sally: They do not.

Harry: Do too.

Sally: How do you know?

Harry: Because no man can be friends with a woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with her.

Sally: So you're saying that a man can be friends with a woman he finds unattractive.

Harry: No, you pretty much want to nail them, too.

Sally: What if they don't want to have sex with you?

Harry: Doesn't matter, because the sex thing is already out there, so the friendship is ultimately doomed, and that is the end of the story.

 

This is how it works. Men cannot be "just friends" with women they attracted to. Many women want to argue this point and say things like " I have lots of guy friends." Maybe. There are exactly 3 cases that can explain why a man would be JUST FRIENDS with a woman.

 

1. The guy is gay

2. The guy does not find you attractive.

3. The guy already has a woman much higher than you on his radar.

 

Even Nietzsche knew this. Most guys know this intuitively. Most girls doubt. I have a challenge for all of you girls who still doubt. Pick a guy who does not meet any of the criterion on the above list that you think is your friend. Then ask yourself this question: If you were both alone at his place one night, and you excused yourself to the bathroom and came out naked and asked him to have sex with you would he:

 

1. Tell you he doesn't want to risk the beautiful friendship you have created with messy physical entanglements.

2. Comply

[Lonelyinasmalltown]

Even Nietzsche knew this. Most guys know this intuitively. Most girls doubt. I have a challenge for all of you girls who still doubt. Pick a guy who does not meet any of the criterion on the above list that you think is your friend. Then ask yourself this question: If you were both alone at his place one night, and you excused yourself to the bathroom and came out naked and asked him to have sex with you would he:

 

1. Tell you he doesn't want to risk the beautiful friendship you have created with messy physical entanglements.

2. Comply

 

lol. Sad to say but if I wasn't chasing after this new woman I'd probably fall under #2 for a couple of my friends. And as bad as that sounds, it would be that way because they're the most attractive women I've ever met. For the other women friends I have, I'm not physically attracted to them at all and wouldn't consider it.

[monsieur]

good post, but sex isn't even the whole thing when it comes to friends, I really feel a deep down kind of nurturing want to have a total love relationship with the girl, take care of her, love her, adore her, cuddle with her, the works, the better friends we become the stronger the feelings get inside, it is sooo difficult to keep that bottled up, but even being more distant friends is better than nothing fof me I adore her so much, it would be perfect if she felt the same, but she is happy just as friends

 

even just hearing from her completely cures my depression and lifts my spirits and it is almost a comfort to have that tiny tiny glimmer of hope deep deep inside my heart that someday she will change her mind..... she texted me today with a nice thought and it lifted me up instantly, almost brought tears to my eyes as I sat here thinking how much I care for her

[Lonelyinasmalltown]

Sex may not be all of the reason but it is some of the reason with single male friends. It's sad but there are a lot of men out there who do think of sex with their female friends. I'll admit, I do too, but I would never act on it, especially now that I'm just starting to date someone.

 

Most men know this, hence why some men don't like women who have tons of guy friends. Especially if they don't know that they can trust the woman or her friends. I know what I'm talking about. I trusted an ex and her male friend completely. Right up to the point I caught them in our bed together... Doesn't mean that I don't trust women when guy friends, but I'll admit that the though of what happens does cross my mind when I date a woman with lots of guy friends.

[CamGuy]

Yea, I call that the cuddle bit_ch syndrome: which is this: a guy who never gets to sleep with a girl but gets to have intimate moments with her like cuddling, spooning, or otherwise being affectionate. Usually this will occur in private. She probably considers him a really sweet guy. But thats it. Basically this is just a guy who is such a "GOOD FRIEND" that he gets the dubious honor of getting to provide all the intimacy that a girl is missing when she's off dating guys who basically don't care about her like outlaw bikers and band members. So he gets to be the proxy father/confessor/friend/teddy bear for her, depending on what she is missing at the time.

 

I wouldnt settle for this. Hanging around women too much that you arent sleeping with only intensifies the loss of your masculinity, and prevents you from ecaping the "Nursery". (Otherwise known as the dependency to feel more comfortable around women than men) The only problem is that if you continue doing this, you will always be seen as a "male-girlfriend" to other women instead of just A MAN.

 

Women dont like to date men like this.

[keenan]

Pick a guy who does not meet any of the criterion on the above list that you think is your friend. Then ask yourself this question: If you were both alone at his place one night, and you excused yourself to the bathroom and came out naked and asked him to have sex with you would he:

 

1. Tell you he doesn't want to risk the beautiful friendship you have created with messy physical entanglements.

2. Comply

 

Funny test. I don't much like orange juice, but if I'm *really* thirsty I'll sometimes drink it. That doesn't mean I secretly fantasize about stealing my friend's OJ, or that I prefer it to grapefruit juice. I don't.

 

BUT...I must say that I've really enjoyed reading this thread. Until six months ago, I could have written Oceaneyes' posts word for word. Friendships with women are great, but if you grow up with guys it's easy to feel a strong kinship with men, and to really appreciate their humor and ease. Men are terrific creatures, and I love them. Women are wonderful too, but they have a much more complicated rule-book.

 

Most of the posts from the guys here echo what my husband has been saying for years...and because of things that have happened to me over the past year, I'm finally starting to accept it as true...*AND* I think it absolutely sucks. It's very tough to essentially give up being friends with 70% of the people in your life because they may harbor some secret lust for you that may rear its head (sorry) at an inopportune time.

 

What I hear from some guys is that men don't NEED to be friends with women, because they get everything they need from each other. Basically, the line is that "dudes don't find women interesting enough to just hang out with, unless they're hoping that somehow, in some way, the might get some." True? I hope not.

[Lonelyinasmalltown]

What I hear from some guys is that men don't NEED to be friends with women, because they get everything they need from each other. Basically, the line is that "dudes don't find women interesting enough to just hang out with, unless they're hoping that somehow, in some way, the might get some." True? I hope not.

 

Just like everything else, it depends on the guy. Personally I wouldn't give up my female friends for the world and I would never do anything to jepordize that. If an incident like the one that cost me my last friendship ever came up again, I think I would do the exact same thing again too. My friends deserve to know what I feel so they can decide how to proceed.

 

Men and women CAN be friends, both sides just have to know the boundarys and be careful not to be misunderstood.

[CamGuy]

Yea, it's a sad rule. But like i mentioned earlier. Men CAN have female friends. Just as long as they arent attracted to that girl, or if they currently have a girl who they are more attracted to (or if they are gay, of course).

 

This doesnt really surprise me though. It is the nature of the beast. When push comes to shove, we are all still ANIMALS, and even humans possess that animal like instinct. I have friends that are women, but I have no interest in sleeping with any of them because I dont find them attractive.

[keenan]

Maybe I'll start wearing really big sweaters and unflattering hats and see if my guy friends still want to hang out with me.

[monsieur]

well of course we want sex too, but I just meant it is not the only thing by any measure, especially with friends, the connection, the closeness, it is all just as important, much more important actually, sex just comes natural for guys that find a woman attractive.... I want sex with my friend because I find her beautiful and I want a closer relationship with her, I want her, not some stranger that is equally beautiful

[ehm doubleyou]

OceanEyes

 

That co worker is just trouble if you ask me and If I were your b/f I would like to have a chat with this fellow cause there is nothing like disrespecting a guy like doing what he is doing....acting like he is just your friend and nothing more...Bull Sh_t!...He has a hidden agenda and I know you see it.

 

CamGuy you are right on the money with this ...especially with the test lol.

 

But I still can not blame women for being nice....Its the guys fault mainly I find, I feel I have such a better understanding of the way women operate than I did 10 years ago, I still have a lot to learn though lol....but one thing is for sure is I can tell the difference when a woman is being a kind friend and one who wants to jump your bones....or be involved romantically...stop thinking with your heart and return to thinking with your brain .... even being flirty can mean nothing, and is just meant to be fun.

 

monsieur

How would it be if you were friends with a girl that you were not attracted to, but she was totally head over heals over you. You really like her as a friend but nothing more. How would you handle it? I really feel for you, but you seriously have to accept that she wont ever feel the same about you as you do to her, the sooner you meet someone else the better it will be for you. You also may feel like you will never meet someone like her again....and you are right...but you will meet someone different but equally as important or even more....and I know its soooo easy for me to offer advice like that but its true.

[monsieur]

How would it be if you were friends with a girl that you were not attracted to, but she was totally head over heals over you. You really like her as a friend but nothing more. How would you handle it?

 

Well to start with I wouldn't make close friends with her in the first place. Aquaintance type friend relationship is ok, but I would definitely not go somewhere with her or hang around with her or any of that other kind of leading on stuff.

[Derge]

Talking of my opinion I think it is very possibly but you should not flirt with them or joke unless they will take it that way it may lead to hurt tem thinking your leading them on. Id be happy to be friends with any girl who was a nice lass.

[mystik]

Well to start with I wouldn't make close friends with her in the first place. Aquaintance type friend relationship is ok, but I would definitely not go somewhere with her or hang around with her or any of that other kind of leading on stuff.

 

So basically, you have no girl friends, just girls you know.

 

You do not 'allow' any females to become friends with you. You don't go anywhere or even just hang out with females because you consider that to be leading them on...

 

I think your "definition" of leading someone is terribly warped. I'm starting to think that the girl who rejected you was simply being a platonic friend and you assumed that just because she wanted to go somewhere with you or hang out, that she must like you. The world doesn't work that way. If it did, we all wouldn't make any friends due to the fear of chance that uh oh, they might start liking us.

[CarnelianButterfly]

Even Nietzsche knew this. Most guys know this intuitively. Most girls doubt. I have a challenge for all of you girls who still doubt. Pick a guy who does not meet any of the criterion on the above list that you think is your friend. Then ask yourself this question: If you were both alone at his place one night, and you excused yourself to the bathroom and came out naked and asked him to have sex with you would he:

 

1. Tell you he doesn't want to risk the beautiful friendship you have created with messy physical entanglements.

2. Comply

For one I don't put much stock in Nietzsche opinions on the sexes considering he was a misogynist. My fav quote of his is "When a woman becomes a scholar, there is usually something wrong with her sexual organs." Needless to say this is crap.

 

As for you little test, I happen to think there are more than a few men that would respect me enough to say they shouldn't take advantage of our friendship, why because I don't have morally bankrupt people as friends, male or female.