Male friends: Is it possible?

[monsieur]

oh no, the dreaded spark thing

 

my peeve is that some guys have a knack for getting that 'spark' out of a tons of women, that is why it is a rejection concept when we fail at getting that spark out of someone we really adore... I don't believe in the spark as being the important thing, it is the spark that gets people in so many unhealthy relationships, it would serve us so much better if more thought and logic and reasoning went into relationships (which is why it makes sense for friendship to be a prerequisite for a relationship, as the logic of compatible friends is the start, then it should grow)

[Iceman26]

My boyfriend says that I will never be able to have a male friend who is single. He tells me that the ONLY way a guy would want to be “friends”, is if he’s married, in a long-term relationship and is happy, or if he’s gay.

 

 

I'd like to go back to this and make a comment, because I think that your boyfriend is right on the money. I think that any guy that is interested in being your friend knowing that you are in a serious, committed relationship is automatically suspect.

 

The only angle I see that a guy could take being interested in you knowing you are in a committed relationship is in the guise of a friend, go through the motions of being a friend, with the hopeful outcome being:

 

1) You get to know him, and like him better then your boyfriend.

2) He is hopeful the relationship will end, and he will be the shoulder you come to cry on, and then he can make his move.

[mystik]

hi, yes that makes a lot of sense! Judging from what you have told me, I would definitely say that what she said is b.s. too. She definitely knew. The major sign is that she kept it from you. If she wasn't worried about him liking her, or was "unaware" why would she hide it from you? Consensus: She is full of ****.

[tmp0620]

Wow, just read through this entire topic (yes I have a lot of time on my hands).

 

It seems to me that "attraction" is very different for men and for women. To me it seems like women are extremely picky.

 

I tend to agree with Monsieur about the "spark". If I'm like most guys (not sure why I wouldn't be), we get the "spark" pretty easily. If I see an attractive girl with a good personality then I would be thrilled to have a more than friendly relationship with her (with a very few exceptions, cause some good personalities don't mesh right together).

 

It seems pretty shallow to me to rely on some mysterious "spark" to decide whether you want to date someone or not. That's certainly no better than some guy only liking women with big boobs, and I would argue that it's worse. You will turn down perfectly good guys cause you don't feel "chemisty". And you don't even know what this "chemistry" is. It's just some magical feeling that you're addicted to.

 

If I could have my way (and I can't of course), there would be no such thing as "dating". Dating seems like a stupid tradition to me. If you ask me to create a truly good relationship it's gotta come out of friendship not some courting ritual where you both try to impress each other instead of being yourselves and really getting to know each other. In my mind a good relationship could be described as best friends with benefits and exclusivity.

 

FIN

[mystik]

LOL!! It's because if we don't, you end up telling us that we're leading you on and breaking your heart! So we're basically damned one way or the other.

 

SO TRUE. So according to you guys, us girls have three options:

 

A) Be nice - and have you all moan about leading you on

B) Be aloof - and have you all moan about being us being cruel, and how we should at least be nice, which, oh look, leads us back to option A

C) Do not have any male friends

 

Wow.

 

I'd like to go back to this and make a comment, because I think that your boyfriend is right on the money. I think that any guy that is interested in being your friend knowing that you are in a serious, committed relationship is automatically suspect.

 

The only angle I see that a guy could take being interested in you knowing you are in a committed relationship is in the guise of a friend, go through the motions of being a friend, with the hopeful outcome being:

 

1) You get to know him, and like him better then your boyfriend.

2) He is hopeful the relationship will end, and he will be the shoulder you come to cry on, and then he can make his move.

 

OK how about THIS scenario: My best guy friend was in a long term relationship (THREE YEARS) of which he was VERY happy and satisfied when he and I became friends. I also, was in a very healthy and loving relationship.

 

WHY did we become friends? You tell me. OH wait, I think I already know your answer, there must have been some big conspiracy right? If I apply your logic to this situation, these would be my conclusions: He was secretly pining for me because I was nice to him, he was hoping I would like him better than my boyfriend, he was waiting for my relationship to end...all this while he was dating a girl he believed he was going to marry. Forward five years later, we both recently became single. Now, according to you guys, I should be preparing myself for him to proclaim his love for me. Maybe I should just tell him right now that we can't be friends anymore because I wouldn't want to lead him on.

 

I'll let you know when he suddenly decides that he loves me, because I am certainly not going to limit our friendship due to the fact that I might be leading him on. I for one, value our friendship.

[tmp0620]

"WHY did we become friends? You tell me. OH wait, I think I already know your answer, there must have been some big conspiracy right?"

 

I think he was just being friends with you if he was in a serious relationship already.

[CamGuy]

HAHAHA, So in denial!

 

First off, I am not saying all your highschool friends were trying to DATE you. Just screw you. I may be a little over the top here. Listen, If a man finds a woman attractive, the sex thing automatically pops up. It is just life. And yes, MEN can be friends (and when I mean friend, I MEAN CLOSE FRIENDS, not aquaintances. I am referring to guys yuo are friends with, and you go out with alone sometimes, just you and him, etc. Big groups are pointless) Anyways, men can befriend women, but usually only the ones they are not attracted to. chances are, if YOU have alot of guy friends, and they tend to stick around you alot, they either think you are just a really cool girl, and dont find you appealing at all, or they probably think you are really hot, and have given up trying to chase you (screw you) because they know you will never see them that way, so they just succumb to the friendship and salvage what good they can get from being in your company. (or they stick around because they hope oneday, you will see them in a romantic light)

 

And yes, girls can have CLOSE, platonic friendships with good looking guys. but it doesnt work vice versa.

[mystik]

It seems pretty shallow to me to rely on some mysterious "spark" to decide whether you want to date someone or not. That's certainly no better than some guy only liking women with big boobs, and I would argue that it's worse. You will turn down perfectly good guys cause you don't feel "chemisty". And you don't even know what this "chemistry" is. It's just some magical feeling that you're addicted to.

 

In my mind a good relationship could be described as best friends with benefits and exclusivity.

 

FIN

 

How are you supposed to have these "benefits" with someone who you are not attracted to? I am not going to date someone simply because he makes a great best friend. Am I supposed to lie and pretend I LOVE kissing, hugging, being sexual with him? Pretend that everytime I see him, I feel butterflies in my stomach? That I long to hear his voice, see his smile? We know what this "Chemistry" is, and there is nothing wrong with looking for it. Do you really want to be with a woman who finds you a great person, but does not look forward to physically being with you?

 

The difference is, a woman finds the spark in her heart, in her mind, whereas, some of you men seem to find it...well, in your libidos. We are "picky" because we have higher standards of finding love, whereas you seem to find it easily and in many people? That doesn't exactly sound very special...seems kind of superficial actually.

[mystik]

 

The only angle I see that a guy could take being interested in you knowing you are in a committed relationship is in the guise of a friend, go through the motions of being a friend, with the hopeful outcome being:

 

1) You get to know him, and like him better then your boyfriend.

2) He is hopeful the relationship will end, and he will be the shoulder you come to cry on, and then he can make his move.

 

-------------------------------------------

 

"WHY did we become friends? You tell me. OH wait, I think I already know your answer, there must have been some big conspiracy right?"

 

I think he was just being friends with you if he was in a serious relationship already.

 

Contradict much?

[tmp0620]

"The difference is, a woman finds the spark in her heart, in her mind, whereas, some of you men seem to find it...well, in your libidos. We are "picky" because we have higher standards of finding love, whereas you seem to find it easily and in many people? That doesn't exactly sound very special...seems kind of superficial actually."

 

I don't know if you noticed, but I wasn't referring to my libido in that post when I said I would like to be more than friends with girls who are attractive and have GOOD PERSONALITIES. "Higher standards of finding love"? Yes that's why it hurts and why it feels unfair to guys who don't necessarily need a "SPARK". You have standards that are so much higher than ours. VERY picky, and it hurts A LOT to be turned down because there's no "sparK" even if the girl thinks you have a good personality and finds you attractive.

 

Thing is, good looking girls always have guys chasing after them, so it's real easy for them to be picky. It's really pathetic for us guys. You know how much control you have over us. That's why I refuse to play the game. It's pretty sick if you ask me.

[tmp0620]

"Contradict much?"

 

I'm not Iceman, I didn't post that. If you read the rest of the topic you would see that most guys' held my opinion there. I think Iceman does too, I think he was referring to single guys.

[mystik]

Anyways, men can befriend women, but usually only the ones they are not attracted to. chances are, if YOU have alot of guy friends, and they tend to stick around you alot, they either think you are just a really cool girl, and dont find you appealing at all.

 

Forgive me for posting so much but I have to answer all these posts!! LOL!!

 

What you wrote above, that has been what I'm TRYING TO SAY! That guys can want to be my friend simply because I'm a really cool girl and NOT be attracted to me. However, I wonder if that would mean, according to you guys, that I am utterly ugly and completely unappealing?

 

The other option is that I'm "really hot." so either Im really ugly, or really hot

[tmp0620]

"The other option is that I'm "really hot." so either Im really ugly, or really hot "

 

Yeah I think those are the two options, except you needn't be REALLY ugly or REALLY hot, you could just be average hot or average ugly or just smack dab in the middle.

 

They could also want to be your friends AND want to be more at the same time.

 

AND at the same time I DO think there are exceptions to every rule.

[mystik]

"Contradict much?"

 

I'm not Iceman, I didn't post that. If you read the rest of the topic you would see that most guys' held my opinion there. I think Iceman does too, I think he was referring to single guys.

 

Sorry, I'm reading everything way too fast! I sincerely apologize.

[mystik]

I don't know if you noticed, but I wasn't referring to my libido in that post when I said I would like to be more than friends with girls who are attractive and have GOOD PERSONALITIES. "Higher standards of finding love"? Yes that's why it hurts and why it feels unfair to guys who don't necessarily need a "SPARK". You have standards that are so much higher than ours. VERY picky, and it hurts A LOT to be turned down because there's no "sparK" even if the girl thinks you have a good personality and finds you attractive.

 

Thing is, good looking girls always have guys chasing after them, so it's real easy for them to be picky. It's really pathetic for us guys. You know how much control you have over us. That's why I refuse to play the game. It's pretty sick if you ask me.

 

I didn't mean you when I wrote that, I got some of you confused.

 

Okay I understand that that hurts, but don't you think it goes both ways? According to you all, we can either be hot or ugly. Well guess what, I feel like I am the latter. I will not go out clubbing, to parties, hang out with guys, if I do not have my make up on. How do you think that makes ME feel? How do you think it makes all the non good looking girls feel when all the guys seem to be chasing after them, when they make no effort? Why aren't you guys chasing after the girls who have to actually dress up to feel attractive, and who have to work three times as hard on their personalities? Instead, you guys keep trying to be friends ONLY with girls who you find attractive. That is just great.

[tmp0620]

"We know what this "Chemistry" is, and there is nothing wrong with looking for it"

 

Please, I'm DYING TO KNOW how you would define chemistry...PLEASE

 

"According to you all, we can either be hot or ugly. Well guess what, I feel like I am the latter."

 

It's not black and white like that... it's not hot or ugly. Personally I think that any girl that takes care of herself is attractive.

 

Anyway the hot/ugly debate is completely separate. Guys have to deal with that ON TOP of the stupid chemistry crap.

[mystik]

think Iceman does too, I think he was referring to single guys.

 

Even if Iceman was referring to single guys, I'm just saying that, now that my guy friend is CURRENTLY single, I think it is unlikely he will start to develop feelings for me after five years of platonic friendship...though from some of the guys' post I should expecting that...and if he doesn't, I should assume I am unattractive.

[tmp0620]

"Even if Iceman was referring to single guys, I'm just saying that, now that my guy friend is CURRENTLY single, I think it is unlikely he will start to develop feelings for me after five years of platonic friendship...though from some of the guys' post I should expecting that...and if he doesn't, I should assume I am unattractive."

 

I think that's a little different, he made friends with you while he was in a relationship, I don't think you should expect him to be into, though it is possible.

[mystik]

"We know what this "Chemistry" is, and there is nothing wrong with looking for it"

 

Please, I'm DYING TO KNOW how you would define chemistry...PLEASE

 

"According to you all, we can either be hot or ugly. Well guess what, I feel like I am the latter."

 

It's not black and white like that... it's not hot or ugly. Personally I think that any girl that takes care of herself is attractive.

 

Anyway the hot/ugly debate is completely separate. Guys have to deal with that ON TOP of the stupid chemistry crap.

 

Chemistry, in simpliest terms, is that feeling I get when I feel attracted to someone. It is not a matter of the guy being attractive or not.

 

It's like...I have a tendency to fall for the non typical "hot" guy. If I point out my crushes to my friends, 95% of the time, they say "OH MY GOD, another one of 'mystik's' weirdo looking guys" but do I care? No. If I feel I have chemistry with someone, I am going to act on it, whether or not he's "attractive." Chemistry is that feeling of wanting...of wanting to be with them, of wanting to hold them, all that stuff. I can see a very hot Brad Pitt looking guy at a club, dance with them, but not feel this need or want to be with them...but I can sit with that quiet, nervous looking brunette at the back of my class, and just..I can start imagining myself in a relationship with him, and you can just feel yourself wanting to be with him. That is chemistry, that feeling of wanting to be with someone. Sorry if that seems like a high expectation to have, but that's just the way we are wired. You simply want something, that you want. Much like how it seems like guys are wired to fall in love with their female friends...

[mystik]

"Even if Iceman was referring to single guys, I'm just saying that, now that my guy friend is CURRENTLY single, I think it is unlikely he will start to develop feelings for me after five years of platonic friendship...though from some of the guys' post I should expecting that...and if he doesn't, I should assume I am unattractive."

 

I think that's a little different, he made friends with you while he was in a relationship, I don't think you should expect him to be into, though it is possible.

 

Exactly!! I don't expect him to, nor do I feel like I should think I am ugly. Like you said earlier, there are exceptions to every situation and it just seems like some of the male posters on here are insisting, that it is IMPOSSIBLE - when it is not.

[tmp0620]

The whole thing just seems weird, unfair, arbitrary and nonsensical to me. I am a bit bitter so I suppose I could have a bias.

 

Yeah some people exaggerate and use words like "impossible".

[mystik]

The whole thing just seems weird, unfair, arbitrary and nonsensical to me. I am a bit bitter so I suppose I could have a bias.

 

Well I am still a bit bitter that my ex dumped me because he suddenly fell for one of his best friends who was a girl. Judging from that experience, and from this whole thread, I should forbid my future boyfriend to have any friends who are girls. However, I am not going to do that, and simply trust that not all men are dogs and that they will all fall for their female friends because that's just the way they "are." I refuse to believe it. It's simply a sad thing if that is true.

 

I am sorry you feel that way though, I suppose it could become frustrating on your end...but it doesn't mean women have it "easier." Just look around on this site, both men and women have equal problems.

[tmp0620]

I'm sorry about your ex. No, you can be sure that all men are not dogs.

 

I guess I would say it's a GENERAL rule that if a single guy's pretty close to a girl he PROBABLY likes her and would like to be more than friends.

 

I guess I agree that women don't have it easier.

 

Though I've heard many times that girls are never into guys as much as guys are into girls, which makes it slightly more painful for us in general.

[CarnelianButterfly]

Though I've heard many times that girls are never into guys as much as guys are into girls, which makes it slightly more painful for us in general.

I don't think its that women are not as interested in men, as it is we don't have the desire to have sex with every attractive guy we meet. It goes back to the difference in what women and men want from sex. Men want sex and women want something deeper.

 

As women, we are not responsible for your sense of rejection, we did not ask you to have sexual feelings for us when we ask for friendship. We have the right to chose the men we have sex with. And we are by no means obligated to like you beyond a friend because you want more from us.

[CamGuy]

Forgive me for posting so much but I have to answer all these posts!! LOL!!

 

What you wrote above, that has been what I'm TRYING TO SAY! That guys can want to be my friend simply because I'm a really cool girl and NOT be attracted to me. However, I wonder if that would mean, according to you guys, that I am utterly ugly and completely unappealing?

 

The other option is that I'm "really hot." so either Im really ugly, or really hot

 

It's not that you are ugly. It may just be that your guy friends dont find you attractive. or perhaps they are currently in relationships with other girls who they are intensely attracted to. Or they are gay.

 

Nonetheless, if you are attractive, (and you know if you are), and you have a single guy friend (who is NOT gay) and he likes to hang with you alot, even alone....chances are he is into you.