Life after a breakup with a Narcissist

[MindGamez]

hello Im new to this forum but wanted to express that this reply is so true to this type of person and well similar happened to me in my situation and well after two yr mark he just changed and started lying etc. It was a huge shock for me and sometimes i wounder if i will ever be the same since. I had great credit, due to grad RN buy a house Im a single mom of 3 and things went from great to 2 yrs later still trying to crawl out of the dark hole of depression, identity theft, bad credit, videotaped us sexually for a web, to being with other women and use of drugs and poss trafficking them he became really violent and heartless it was like a light switch that turned on then off. Or should i say he took his mask off when he no longer needed use of me for his son, my credit money , and prob used the next whom was also older than him and claims he's in love with ...funny they do have objective symptoms and u see a pattern but these guys are good he was almost like a addiction that was hard to let go i was pathetic and mentally weak when i use to love myself more than to lower my pride or show my kids i had no control but he somehow could do this to me and it was the pain i guess of letting go an seeing this guy who use to be my bestfriend , my male twin, sexually couldn't be better all along chemistry was intense, btw he was the one who made the suggestion to move into together w/in about 6 months into dating.....My dad made me admit i was conned and it was hard to believe and my mom says u have to go thru the hole of he soul to heal an u do it was very hard and think that may be why we like to go back to these idiots because its a comfort zone may not be great anymore but u love them and u fear the emotional pain the unknown of losing him and want so bad for the guy you met to comeback and u question what did i do it sucks for it put me in a non functional state and hard to eat work sleep almost like a obession. i seeked therapy and it help and time helps but cannot agree with the term time heals all wounds i feel u learn to live with them though and accept what u cannot change.

 

Dr. robert Hare has a book "Without a Conscience" perfect book reguarding these type of people "psycopathic" and very satisfying to get answers to why and if it helps this is a mental disease and they dont have the brain wired the same as a non psycopathic person and u cannot fix it . there minds are not wired the same way and they actually have no emotion to feel it that helps us feel better a bit "its not you " good luck

[Diggitydave]

forgive my ignorance. what isnarcissistic personality disorder?

[MindGamez]

Characteristics of Narcissistic Personality Disorder

 

A pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and lack of empathy which begins by early adulthood and is present in differing contexts within a person's life.

 

 

A narcissistic individual is grandiose in their sense of self-importance and exaggerates their achievements and talents. He expects to be recognized as superior without achieving any great accomplishments.

 

A narcissistic individual is preoccupied with fantasies of his brilliance as well as his unlimited success or power. He fantasizes about beauty or ideal love.

 

A narcissistic individual believes that he is "special" or "unique." He feels that he can only be understood by or should associate with other special or high status people.

 

A narcissistic individual requires excessive admiration and is on a constant search for admiration.

 

A narcissistic individual has a sense of entitlement. He has unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment and expect others to automatically comply with his wishes.

 

A narcissistic individual takes advantage of others to achieve his own ends and uses others without regards to the feelings of others.

 

A narcissistic individual lacks empathy and does not identify with the feelings or needs of others.

 

A narcissstic individual is envious of others and believes that others are envious of him.

 

A narcissistic individual shows arrogant or haughty behaviors or attitudes and does not care who he offends.

 

 

 

*Please note that this article has been written in the male gender because estimates are that only 1% of the population suffers from this disorder and 50-75% of this 1% is male. Female narcissists do exist. thereforeeee, the word he is interchangeable with the word she.

 

hope this is enough infor otherwise u can go to this web for a more detailed description. link removed

[MindGamez]

re: the persons behaviour I too heard if u are around enough u can start to also get similar symptoms, behaviours and or beliefs ???

 

In college they spoke of it in abnormal psych class an called it shared psychosis......it very interesting.

[MindGamez]

re: the persons behaviour I too heard if u are around enough u can start to also get similar symptoms, behaviours and or beliefs ???

 

 

 

In college they spoke of it in my abnormal psychology class an called This disorder Shared psychosis......it very interesting.

 

[B]Shared psychotic disorder

Also known as shared psychotic disorder is an uncommon disorder in which the [/b]Someone who is closely associated with a delusional person also develops a delusion.

 

The content of this new delusion is similar to that of the first person's delusion.

 

The disorder is not explained better by another psychotic disorder, such as Schizophrenia or Mood Disorder with Psychotic Features.

 

This disorder is not directly caused by a general medical condition or the use of substances, including prescription medications.

 

 

 

ame delusion is shared by two or more individuals[/u].

[MindGamez]

reguarding getting over its reply : I love your response and could not agree any more with you! Why is it that we know we should love and respect ourselfs more and leave but its like u feel like u loved them and cared too much an well its the hurt internally ....sometimes i just want to run to him to make up with him to temp heal inside so i can function and break the depression a bit it controls me whatever it is thats why i called him my addiction and wish i knew the name for this type of attitude creates this choice to stay with basically a loser but love them sooo or a emotional verbal controlling cheating abuser "got all that in"????? Why is the pain of disbelief and shock as well as fear of abandonment then anger all come if they dont come back.????

 

what is this control please anyone a term besides " uh STUCK ON STUPID "....we all know....so now the real dianosis please and resolution kkkk

[blender]

I feel for you, and know that you feel "addicted" to him, but right now you are "addicted" to your own pain over him, this is a way of "not letting go" and I know how difficult this all is for you... but by him leaving you have been spared a life time of "unhappiness, and wondering when he will eventually leave" and that is no way for YOU to live. When our hearts are broken the "pain is inevitable" but "suffering is a choice". For today try to "choose" not to suffer over him so much.

 

Give yourself credit for belieiving in him as long as you did, and NOW give yourself the "advantage" of having "learned" that he was NOT right or healthy, or okay..by any means, he is so "characted flawed" and this has nothing to do with YOU. Start by being honest with yourself and then start saying to others, "yeah he was a sad story and it would have been even sadder for me if he had stuck around, I'm blessed he left, even if it hurts my heart, my mind knows better"

 

For today, please try to understand that it's all about "acceptance", accept the "reality" of what has happened, and know that you can learn from this, and to try to "let go" you are powerless over him, whether it's postive or negative actions he shows, they have NOTHING to do with YOU.

 

He's on his path and has been long before you showed up in his life, you simply possesed all the qualities he lack in himself and these "types" find people like "you" who they deeply admire and desire but ONLY because they truly wish they had these qualities themselves but to possess such qualities of character HE would have to do the "work" on himself and that's not his "choice" so instead they find someone like you and just by "association" they believe that somehow they NOW have these "wonderful qualities" and they are like emotional vampires, they feed off of you... and at first this quality they have to do this, feels like "love" to you... but it's not it's "survival" for them and when the "realities" of life start to rear thier head, and the going gets tough and things are "revealed" about them well then they have to "run" and take all they can before they do....

 

and YOU are left with the "dreams" of what you "thought" you could have with them, and the you get "stuck" in the "beginning" memories of them...and will fight, cling, and starve to have those moments, version of them back.... but these are NOT REAL, they are the "temporary qualtities' your "ex" has in order to "survive" not really "love"..although the two are so similiar for the first couple of months/years maybe... but be GRATEFUL he has revealed himself to you, even if it means "losing what you THOUGHT he was"...

 

he ISN"T anything but trouble, no matter how great the sex was, no matter how great some moments were, life is so much bigger than this, try to look at the big picture, and please give yourself a break, do not spend too much time looking in the rearview mirror you'll only crash over and over again... start looking ahead, have faith that fate has a "different plan" in store for you, one you are "refusing" to accept so it can NOT show up... so try to "let go" of what you "thought" was going to be and start "getting yourself" ready for the "different outcome" that fate has in store, it's waiting for you... get ready, start congratulating yourself for having "survived" this jerk, and get back to YOU....

 

if you lose yourself when supposedly "in love" with someone then you eventually have nothing, and even when they stay you will experience authentic "loneliness" a loneliness much worse then when the LEAVE and they are GONE from your life, NOW you have the OPPORTUNITY to find yourself again through this pain... and you will, once you CHOOSE to ACCEPT the REALITY of who and what he IS, not WAS, but who he really IS, and let go of that unhealthy jerk, and get back to the real, healthy YOU..... You can do it, so many of us have, and all this heartache will have been worth it.... I promise you this. It's up to you...

 

YOU are fantastic, strong, smart, loving, kind, caring, and YOU deserve a healthy, confident, smart, handsome, financially secure, wonderful self respecting and respectful man in your life, but it all start with your own self respect, and when you get that back, by "choice" you won't even look back at this guy...that's for sure. It won't be easy to "let go" but it's so worth it.... it's a "choice" not something that just happens. So try to make that choice.... you can do it.. Be a better example for your children and teach them through your own actions that "self respect" starts with your "choices" and this guy was simply not such a good "choice" and you NOW know that... so act accordingly... your heart will follow your choices to be "okay" now that he is finally someone else's problem... you are free!!!!!!

[Rainz]

Excellent post Blender, very meaty!

[Entomon]

I read somewhere that people who display narcissistic traits may not be aware of their condition or are in denial or not sound enough to know they need psychological and or professional help. These are people in a delicate state of mind and they live their lives as walking on glass and egg shells.

 

It's interesting that I had thought of my ex as having a mild case of personality disorder. I didn't want to approach him and suggest it in fear of getting him offended. I wish I had. He exhibited all of what was mentioned above (clearly showed signs of a somatic narcissist) and was extremely difficult to deal with. Though he is quite good looking, he has very low self-esteem. He constantly looks at himself in the mirror every chance he gets. In a crowded room, he is the center of attention, always in the spotlight. There'll often be complaints from him about the guys at the hospital being jealous of him because their biceps were not as big. When asked how I can better identify with him, he directed me to go read his horoscope. And I won't forget the constant lies he told. Ultimately, my frustration with him drove us apart because he thinks problems can be solved shoved under the carpet. It's hard helping a person when they don't want to be helped.

[Notyouraveragegaal]

WOW ... I can SOO relate ... I'm going through an unclosed break up.... with someone i have been in relationship with for nearly 2years... who just CUTS CONTACT as soon as he so much as perceives something confronting.. its this cutting of contact that leaves me so powerless. After he cuts off he sends me sms msgs telling me how upset he is... or blames me... but either way wont engage in communication where either of us can actually be heard and make things better. I keep telling myself this is a destructive pattern and i should let go of him.. but my mind perpetually goes to the many positive things about him... and wanting to make things better. Problem is he moves away while i try and move towards.... Problem with PD's is that the person is not a full time disturbed person. I spent MONTHS developing a friendship with him... and talking at length about his previous BPD partner.... and all about our common values.. only to find that in practice.... he was also a BPD....and this only comes out when deeply triggered. The fact that he now has a brain tumor complicates things... as the sense of sadness over things being unresolved is even more intense... and i dont know how much is the tumor.. and how much is BPD. My biggest problem is when u truly love someone.. you cant switch it off just because the person has treated you badly....

[Speedway]

WOW ... I can SOO relate ... I'm going through an unclosed break up.... with someone i have been in relationship with for nearly 2years... who just CUTS CONTACT as soon as he so much as perceives something confronting.. its this cutting of contact that leaves me so powerless. After he cuts off he sends me sms msgs telling me how upset he is... or blames me... but either way wont engage in communication where either of us can actually be heard and make things better. I keep telling myself this is a destructive pattern and i should let go of him.. but my mind perpetually goes to the many positive things about him... and wanting to make things better. Problem is he moves away while i try and move towards....

 

Sorry to hear that. I must admit that I've had to really think about a similar situation lately. There is a book about shyness and it brings up a scenario of a person "who hides in a relationship". Basically this person does what you describe above, i.e. leaves without contact, can't show/discuss his emotions with the partner (but may well discuss them with other persons), moves away if feels that partner "pushes" things, may come back after awhile, jealousy is involved etc. There were other "symptoms" as well. I also read about narcissist behaviour and at first thought it was spot on, but now I think for my situation the "hider" is the more appropriate one.

 

Unfortunately - or fortunately - the book mentioned that it is indeed hard having a relationship with a hider, and often the best is to leave. I suppose the hider must realise his behaviour himself - or it really needs to be spelled out to him - to be able to cure from that sort of behaviour.

[amb1873]

This thread just put a lightbulb off in my head. My ex is also extremely good looking, constantly has to look perfect and be the center of attention, but always claimed he did so because underneath it all he had no self-esteem. I would end up so frustrated and upset when we'd get into an argument because he would refuse to see things my way- he'd tell me I was trying to manipulate him by crying and would rarely, if ever, admit he was wrong. A mutual friend of ours did describe him as having a "superiority complex" but for some reason I keep clinging to the idea that actually, underneath it all he really is this insecure person with honest motives and intentions. Makes me wonder why it seems so easy for him to let go of this relationship with me (I'm not "useful" to him anymore) and why it's so hard for me to get over him- it really is like an addiction. I feel like I started to believe he was this superior amazing person that he believes himself to be... He always talks about one of the things he liked about me was my passion for music and how I helped him to discover great new music- even now he'll tell friends that is what he misses most about me. Granted, that could be genuine, but if that is the single need I filled for him that's pretty depressing! I do remember how dis-heartened I'd feel after I'd come back from a trip and he would talk about his weekend without me rather than show any real interest in how my trip had been. Great thread y'all... Let's keep it going. It's so interesting to hear about other people's experiences.

[dayle]

I am new to the group so forgive any cyber space foohpahs.

 

I am breaking up with an N only he is not what you have described. He is fat, bald, 55 years old and not very good looking. He is however chariming, well off and exciting. Is was not the money that attracted me to him it was his charm. Now that i have spent 6 years with him i know who he really is.

 

He is demanding and very diffucult to please. He plays the victim role many times and blames everyone for everything. His children do not speak to him. Nor do his brothes, sister in laws or nephews. His old friends from long ago hate him. He micro manages to the point of never being pleased. ever. i could never do anything right. that is how i have felt for years and years.

 

so i have left him, moved out for the third times. since my move he was very nice. we dated a few times and he had me thinking that maybe things could work out. But NOOOOOOOOO - his old self is back and I rmember why I left.

 

All that said - Please help me understand why I miss him. Why am I sad? Why do I not feel as th9ugh my life is just beginning instaed of ending? I can not for the lifeof me figure this out. Can anyone out there help me?

[blender]

It's called "gaslighting" type it into a search engine and you'll find out it's normal to "miss" him even though it was the RIGHT THING to do by LEAVING HIM... you are just stuck in a "habit" of feelings, and you can break this habit.. in time.. you will wonder who you even were when you were with him.... one baby step at a time, let go.. he's not worth it, YOU are worthy of a committed, respectable, enjoyable, fulfilling love.. and you will NEVER get it from this man, no one in his life has been able to.. my god, he doesn't even have a healthy relationship with his children, if for no other reason this should have been A HUGE RED FLAG... you are going to heal... breathe, and remember that you could never cure him of himself...

[Juliana]

Okay.

 

First of all, I was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder when I was young. This puts me in the Cluster B personality disorders -- Narcissistic, Histrionic & Borderline.

 

Now. Alot is being said about the impossibility of loving, or being loved by, someone with a personality disorder.

 

First of all, most of you have passed through periods in which you exhibited qualities of narcissism, histrionics, borderline -- ever been self-centered? Ever felt that your looks were the way you got people to notice you? Ever been a "drama queen" and felt that no one understood you? To some extent, personality disorders can be seen to be stages of growth. Personality disorders do not have to be a permanent state; they only become so when the personality is damaged by events in that person's life. And, they come in varying degrees of severity.

 

Please remember, when you are talking about someone with a personality disorder, you are talking about a human being. People with personality disorders can love, and do love; they have more difficulty identifying it, trusting it and expressing it, but they can. Relationships with people who have personality disorders are just like relationships with other people; sometimes they work out, sometimes they don't, and when they end, yes, chances are the problems will arise out of the disorder and the disruptive influence it has on the person's perceptions of reality and their social interaction. But ultimately, your relationship didn't fail because the other person was sick; it failed because you were not right for each other. You can identify the disease as the problem, and maybe it was the whole reason you were attracted -- the positive side of the disorder; they all have a positive side -- and the whole reason that things crashed when they did. But there is a real person behind the disorder, and in the relationships with people who have a PD that work, they work because you are not "talking to the disease" when you are with the person; you are talking to the real personality.

 

I'm not minimizing the problems or the damage that can be done through being with people who have personality disorders. It's just that demonizing them really does no good. There was a person behind the illness, who you either loved or didn't, and if you've broken up with someone with a personality disorder, you are going to miss that real person, who did exist, and did care for you.

[Ocean123]

I can't believe what I'm reading.

 

I thought I was going mad, and have been suffering over a girl, who sounds exactly the same as this. This thread has helped me loads, I cannot believe the similarities between my ex and the girl you have described.

 

I think the main problem lies, in that I find my ex, physically irrisistable. And I think it could be the lust factor which keeps me pining, and hoping for another chance.

 

Are there any similar topics on this or links anyone knows. I have had an extremely hard time getting over my ex, even though now I know I would be forever chasing her and being made to feel like a failure if I stayed with her.

[GottaLetItBurn]

I think we are all amazed at how someone can care for us one moment then turn into a total uncaring cruel person. Yes I can relate on some level.

[sandyv]

Yes, they change from being loving and kind, to some distant stranger you could ever imagine..........

[GottaLetItBurn]

Yes, they change from being loving and kind, to some distant stranger you could ever imagine..........

 

Exactly, I agree.

[desertnomad]

I second that. My ex of 4 years told me she loved me and would miss me one friday morning and we would plan our weekend out later, to running off with a guy that afternoon and blaming me for everything about 3 weeks later when she would finally talk to me. She seemed to have no remorse or regret or anything for the hurt she caused. We had actually been getting along fairly well. She is definetly the star of her own fantasy movie.

[Anotherday]

As a person who has TWO DSM IV diagnoses, I have a few thoughts to share.

First, I see a lot of fingerpointing at a label here as the cause for the problems in a relationship.

 

I had been involved with someone who works in the mental health field helping homeless people, so presumably he's put together mentally well, right? The guy is very charming, outgoing, and striking. His smile was what I first noticed. At first things were great. He was kind, gentle and said he never wanted to lose me, that I made him feel alive again, that he'd been alone for six years, etc. We had a great first month. I did tell him about my psychiatric issues right off the bat, so he knew what he was getting. The night of our first date he didn't show up until 10, as he had to finish watching the basketball game. I jokingly said I guess I know where I rank, and he told me I was selfish for saying this.

 

He had this habit of pointing out all these women at work (where I was a volunteer) and telling me how they were after him. When I told him I didn't like this, he told me I was just insecure (well, even if that were true, why continue doing it?) To this day he continues this behavior. Early on he stood me up because he said he was sick. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Over time, he'd cancel on me at the last minute, always some excuse. The end of August he flipped out on me and accused me of taking too much time to make breakfast, as he had been doing me the favor of some work in my backyard. I just ended up in tears and that was the last time I saw him. Since then, he calls me at least a couple of times a week. We've made plans twice. The first time he called me at midnight (a little late, we missed the party). This past weekend he didn't even bother to call me until the next morning.

 

This entire time I've had to listen to him blame things on me, due to my "issues." If I get angry at him for the way he treats me, he says my bipolarity is showing. I am not allowed to have any problems with the way he's treated me, he just blames it on my mental health. He tells me I am stupid, even though I have a graduate degree, speak Spanish fluently, and own a home free and clear in a very nice neighborhood.

 

In July I stopped drinking completely and doubled the dose of my mood stabilizer, in August I stopped smoking for three weeks. The night of August 26, he was so angry with me as I didn't want to go to the casino, I just picked up a cigarette, a drink, and it's been downhill from there. Did he make me do this? No. I just couldn't take his behavior anymore, wondering what I was really dealing with. Was I really crazy? Did I expect too much?

 

I found out recently he'd lied about his age (by two years, big deal, so why lie?), and the age of his daughter (whom he hasn't seen for 4.5 years, not his choice). Also, he's 54 and never been married. Hmmm....

 

Who is the real "nutcase" here? (ok, me, in part, for putting up with him for so long, but I really thought he was the one and kept wishing that nice guy I met would return).

 

Now, OP, I do agree it takes a lot of time to recover when you've been involved in something really bizarre, but I just have to say that it's not always due to some DSM IV label.

 

You're a good looking guy and I'm sure there are any number of women would love to date you. Chin up.

[supahstah133]

I just thought I'd weigh in on this topic, even though it looks like no one has posted for a couple of months. First, sorry to hear about the people who have been hurt by people who are narcissists or who have NPD. I know firsthand how badly these people treat others, because I have have been diagnosed with it. I guess I'd just like to say a couple of things about the disorder and maybe try to clarify some others. NPD is not incurable, but as it was posted it is very difficult to beat. It's been over a year and I struggle with it.

 

People with NPD do not always coldly calculate and premeditate their behavior. Unfortunately, there are those with NPD who do these things and also unfortunately, the disorder as a whole has been stereotyped and over generalized, especially some of the sites on the internet. Let me be clear: I DO NOT in any way, shape or form condone or excuse ANY behaviors I or anyone else with NPD has exhibited. I did some of the very things described-- self-centered, childish, devaluing, insensitive, detached emotionally and intimately....it is a terrible way to behave toward another person with feelings and emotions. I don't feel, though that I ever actively calculated and manipulated to simply hurt. Misery loves company, though and I am guilty of spreading it around. People have been very seriously hurt emotionally.

 

It's just interesting to me that most personality disorders receive some sort of support to help the-- except NPD; you are immediately categorized, labeled evil and heartless, because that's the way some behave.

 

NPD, like most other PD's, exists on a spectrum, and I believe I was blessed to have been made aware of this disorder and am receiving therapy and medication for it. I also saw it posted that people with NPD have no emotions or feelings or conscience. This is not entirely accurate. Unless you are truly psychopathic, you have emotions and feelings. Most of the time they are masked and hidden in shame.

 

I am not asking for any sympathy or to call attention to myself. I drove away the woman I loved because of my disorder and I have to live with that. However, there are people like me with NPD who do genuinely want to change and are not incurable. I only ask to recognize that there are all kinds of narcissists from mild to severe and by perpetuating stereotypes it does nothing to solve the problems.

 

Sorry this is stupid long (and narcissistically long-winded, I suppose we have a site for those who want to heal our NPD--- link removed Thanks for reading.

[sandyv]

Hi, I'm sorry I posted awhile ago, but I know Jack never meant to do what he did to me, he also has the same problem...... he still's playing with me however, and I don't understand why he doesn't deal with his problems more maturely like yourself.... but this guy, continues to drink and smoke pot, which probably doesn't help the situation right?

 

I still love him always will, but when I see him, I try to run away nowadays, cause he won't deal with his own issues......

 

Its soo sad.... I want him to help himself, but I can't make him, can I?

 

 

 

Sandy

[supahstah133]

Well, sandy, from what I understand, most people who have major narcissistic traits or NPD don't feel like there is a problem, so if they have no problem, or if "you're the problem" as he might say, the likelihood of him changing is slim. He may have a more severe problem with narcissism. It took a traumatic event for me to realize that for a long time, I blamed the world and everyone else for my problems. I was very immature when i was with my ex-gf. Believe me, I am by no means healed as of yet. Really, this may sound strange coming from someone with the disorder, but you may want to do your best to avoid him.

 

If you absolutely are sure you want to try to deal with this, you have to make a very difficult commitmet. Most people can't deal with some people with NPD and leave eventually anyway. But if you are going to make it work, one of the few ways to try to keep it in perspective is that he, somewhere inside, is in a lot of pain. He is hurting and won't or can't deal with his emotions. Honestly, as much as I hate to say it, unless he somehow come to realize this on his own, you can only control how you react to his behavior. If this isn't something that will be too hard for you (understandably), you have to take care of yourself. It's pointless to try to change someone who is either unwilling or unaware of a need to change. I know that's probably not great to hear, and there always is hope that someone will change, but you have to be realistic and look out for your own wellbeing.

 

Good luck, sandy

[quanu]

I just recently ended a 1-year relationship with a narcissist about 5 weeks ago. I think I can relate when it comes to still feeling attracted to these people after they caused so much destruction to your mind. You have to call it what it is which is brainwashing you on the "image" they created for you to believe in. As I am learning about this person, obsessed with this improverished illness of narcissism or sociopathic tendencies, I realize that all the lies (even forging divorce paperwork to keep me in the relationship) is all apart of his pathology. I feel free, realizing it wasn't me, per se, but it is ALL HIM!!! He is the problem. He is the one with this huge huge problem. I feel good although it is still fresh. I feel good because I know that his pain wasn't inflicted by a normal person. He is not normal. I was supplying a need for an addict. There is nothing wrong with still feeling they are attractive or whatnot, but they are objects. Not real people and that's the way it should remain. They are like a picture that projects an image, a distorted one. They are not whats real in the picture only a projection and you have to admire that image and move on.