Gay marriages

[darkblue]

Very well, feel free to tear this apart:

 

I believe that children brought up by same sex partners are more likely to have an influence on their children's sexuality, than opposite gendered partners.

 

Furthermore; the children will have an increased chance of suffering bullying due to the fact that their parents are 'gay'. Children are directly affected by societies normalities.

 

If you are religious - same sex partnership is not allowed by the Christian church, among others.

 

Most of the studies I've been reading up on - and I've done a lot of reading - are studying children between the ages of birth and late teens. What about future effects in their lives? I.e. Adulthood.

 

Another reason is that same sex couples are not equiped to make their own child - is that not a sign? If it were totally natural and without affect - wouldn't same sex couples have the ability to produce a child by their own means?

 

There is also the effects of break-up/'divorce' between same sex couples - as to who would get primary custody of the child. The mother is normally favoured to be the child's carer, but with gay fathers - this would be difficult to decide. Courts would be able to assess each case - but there would still be resentment on the other partner's behalf.

And what if it was a mutual break up? There is no one to blame, thereforeeee no suggestions as to who is the most capable to have custody of the child.

 

 

Note: This is simply my opinions and beliefs - I do not want to be disrespected (as I have been) for holding them.

 

As you may be able to tell, I have thought carefully about my words so as not to offend anyone; as this is a sensitive issue.

[RayKay]

Read that study I linked, it does have arguments from both side, and for both sides, which is why I posted it.

 

I am not disrespecting you for your opinions, honestly. I personally don't feel the same way, but it's your right to have them, as it is mine.

 

The main reason mine are different is due to my experiences and beliefs - for me marriage is NOT religious, so that also takes away that argument.

 

The custody thing as I said before - I have a problem with mothers automatically getting children in STRAIGHT relationships, so in gay relationships I would have a problem with anyone automatically getting custody. In all cases, joint custody is ideal where it is healthy, however I would imagine that it should be determined on a case to case basis.

 

And the not equipped thing - I have an issue with that personally, just because many STRAIGHT people are not equipped - they have fertility problems and so on, and can adopt, gay people can be "equipped" - so why can't they do same? And no one answered what I asked before...what if a gay couple, talked to a female friend and she willingly slept with one of them to carry their baby, or a lesbian couple did same with a male friend? All of them knowing of course - they were equipped to do it after all...

 

I don't think gay is an "influenced thing". All the people I know whom are gay grew up in straight households. I know some older gay parents whose children are all straight. I think it is partly genetic...but not an environmentally-influenced thing. They may be more open about their sexuality if they are gay, but I don't think they are made to be gay.

 

Kids get bullied no matter what. I was bullied as I was a redhead. I still did fine. I don't think because a kid might get bullied they should be prevented from having a family to grow up in - good parents will give their children the skills to overcome such things and be loved. Higher chance maybe, but kids do get bullied for ANYTHING. I was bullied for years of my life, I would not of wanted to be prevented having a chance at life or a family whom loved me because of that.

 

To me, homosexuality is not "unnatural" - a look at the animal world also is evidence of that. But I do believe that treating it like a leperous condition is pretty unnatural. And I PERSONALLY feel a gay couple should have the same rights to love and family as I do.

 

And that's just how *I* see it. Not trying to tear your's apart, just showing how two people can look at the same thing, and see it totally differently is all

[shiminimo]

maybe were just all afraid of the unknown. of the o.k. what if gays were allowed to get married. then what? and then they adopt. what's after that. it's just a bunch of unanswered questions if you ask me. who really knows. you can assume you know what's best. but do you really?

[darkblue]

Read that study I linked, it does have arguments from both side, and for both sides, which is why I posted it.

Will do. When I've got time. I'm a little snowed under right now. (this will also be my last post tonight)

 

I am not disrespecting you for your opinions, honestly. I personally don't feel the same way, but it's your right to have them, as it is mine.

Agreed, and vice versa.

 

The main reason mine are different is due to my experiences and beliefs - for me marriage is NOT religious, so that also takes away that argument.

Yes, it does.

 

The custody thing as I said before - I have a problem with mothers automatically getting children in STRAIGHT relationships, so in gay relationships I would have a problem with anyone automatically getting custody. In all cases, joint custody is ideal where it is healthy, however I would imagine that it should be determined on a case to case basis.

Joint custody is basically juggling the child between two parents; who often play the child against eachother - not the most suitable conditions for a child. But then again, neither is their parent's breaking up!

 

And the not equipped thing - I have an issue with that personally, just because many STRAIGHT people are not equipped - they have fertility problems and so on, and can adopt, gay people can be "equipped" - so why can't they do same? And no one answered what I asked before...what if a gay couple, talked to a female friend and she willingly slept with one of them to carry their baby, or a lesbian couple did same with a male friend? All of them knowing of course - they were equipped to do it after all...

Straight people have the problem with 'faulty equipment' - however, it's still naturally given to them.

About the sleeping with someone to give it to another couple - It's not ideal. There are also many children sitting in foster homes that could be given a chance; rather than produce another child.

 

I don't think gay is an "influenced thing". All the people I know whom are gay grew up in straight households. I know some older gay parents whose children are all straight. I think it is partly genetic...but not an environmentally-influenced thing. They may be more open about their sexuality if they are gay, but I don't think they are made to be gay.

With divorced hetrosexual couples, or children who have in some way 'lost' a parent - it directly effects the child. This, I feel, is because they're missing a gender in their lives. A male/female role-model.

 

Kids get bullied no matter what. I was bullied as I was a redhead. I still did fine. I don't think because a kid might get bullied they should be prevented from having a family to grow up in - good parents will give their children the skills to overcome such things and be loved.

If you re-read - I said they're more likely to get bullied. On the basis that their parent's are the same sex. Because children see 'normal' families with a male and a female, and to a child - anything 'different' is 'weird'.

 

Homosexuality is not "unnatural" - a look at the animal world also is evidence of that. But I do believe that treating it like a leperous condition is pretty unnatural.

Even in the animal world - it's a lot less 'natural' than hetrosexuality.

And it's selective to breeds.

 

And that's just how *I* see it. Not trying to tear your's apart, just showing how two people can look at the same thing, and see it totally differently is all

Duely noted.

 

Also: It is the basic instinct of a male and of a female to reproduce.

That is why gays want to have children - because they have the same instinct to reproduce - only they can't through natural methods.

 

P.S. This is my last post of the night - so bare with me on getting back to you.

[DN]

One of the most interesting marriages was between Sir Harold Nicholson, diplomat, politician, author and diarist, and Vita Sackville-West, poet and author. Both were homosexual, both had affairs outside the marriage (Sackville-West most famously with Virginia Woolf) and yet they loved each other deeply, wrote to each other daily when apart, and produced two sons, both of whom had successful and satisfying lives.

 

There have been many cases of gay people who raised children who were happy, content and 'normal (whatever that means); this has been occurring for thousands of years, albeit usually with a straight partner.

 

To equate a change in societal thinking with letting people drink and drive is a false analogy. Many things have changed in society - it used to be normal to execute people for sheep-stealing, or hang, draw and quarter traitors. In medieval England you would be fined for not attending church on Sunday, and in Salem, Massachusetts they tried and executed witches.

 

Marriage is an institution - some people believe it to be a religious institution only and they are entitled to their opinion. But in most countries it is a legal, civil institution, regulated and amended by law. That is why there is a requirement for a marriage license and the marriage must be solemnized and recorded by a legally appointed official, who may or may not also be a religious leader.

 

Over the years, there have been various amendments to the laws surrounding marriage - parental permission, consanguinity, property rights etc. These are purely secular issues determined by legislation. thereforeeee, there is no reason why the law surrounding marriage cannot be amended to include homosexual unions. The various religions can do what they wish according to conscience - as they always have.

 

That is partly the reason, in the United States at least, for the separation of church and state.

[lunatic]

Remember one thing about a topic sensitive as this one is... Everyone sees things differently and has their own opinions on the matter. Is there a right or wrong answer? I don't know. This topic is as bad as religion when it comes to opinions because everyone will see things differently. I dont want to spark a religious debate. I want to remind everyone that we are not always going to agree with each other and there is no need to have anyone flaming anyone else over this topic.

 

I do think gays and straights should be treated equally but, the religious right and the closed minded will never ever agree to allow gays to marry. It is a shame that gays are treated differently than straights because when it comes down to it we are all human.

 

I think everyone should have the same rights; gay or straight it does not matter. I have read some of the replys to this post and I do tend to agree that what is happening to the gay community is not very fair. I treat people the same wether or not they are straight or gay. If everyone in the world could learn to treat each other with respect I think the world would be a better place. I feel if everyone would stop discriminating against each other then gay weddings would go from debate to reality.

[mgirl]

I think that is very much unfair, mostly due to part of our religious beliefs. Do we really know their is a God, no we don't. We believe in someone we have never seen.

 

It's called faith why people believe in something they can't see (aka a god). This is a completely different situation... I don't know what it has to do with this situation. It may for some, but my reasons behind my beleifs go further than religion.

 

One of my friends is gay, and he knows where I stand on the issue. I lie to noone about my beleifs. He understands my point of view, and I understand his. We disagree, but respect for eachother as human beings for having an opinion- Even if it means that I cannot fully support him in certain ways (we try to avoid the subject altogether). The respect has nothing to do with his sexual orientation. It is nothing prejudice. My beleifs are more realistic and well thought out than a prejudice. A prejudice is what a beleif concerning a particular person (or group of people) becomes when you disregard any logical information and base your beleif on pure emotion or analogy. This is not what I'm doing.

 

If we allow gay marriages, let's get rid of all other "prejudices." Let's let 15 year olds get drunk, caucasians work as waiters at an authentic Mexican restaurant, and "rehabilitated" ex-convicts be elementary teachers. When do we draw the line of who can marry who? It's only a matter of time until virtual husbands/wives become socially acceptable.

 

So, let me get this straight, if you're white, heterosexual and don't have any kinks, you're allowed to have priviledges right?! In other words, you eligible to enter and win the race... But if you're gay, you in the same category as a freak and that is okay? What you're basically saying is that there is white affluent middle class and then there is "everbody else". I personally do not have a problem with reformed convicts becoming teachers, or people marrying cyber partners... Who cares?

 

Once again, why is marriage only assigned to one single strata of society? I would love it if it was the other way around and straight people had to beg for rights. It would be really interesting.

 

What if black people were not allowed to get married? What would happen then?

[mgirl]

o.k. here's my question. and i don't mean to offend. if two gay couples are raising up a child do they tend to follow their parents and be gay or do they get raised up being able to choose between straight or gay? will they be influenced at all being raised up by gay parents or will they be able to choose their own sexual preference?

 

They would be allowed to choose their own sexuality. I was raised by straight parents and i am gay. So was my sister and she is straight.

 

I know plenty of gay people with children and they are allowed to have their own preferences.

 

And anyway, if they did have to become gay, who cares? Oh, look out, we just may take over the world. And everything will be pink. Lol.

[shiminimo]

mgirl

 

your views on this topic got to me the most. first of all no one should be referred to as a freak! secondly, if we were to create all men as if they were equal no one would be bias would they? I can not stand for one person to think that he/she is better than anyone else. I often question that of a person who thinks they are so perfect and inferior to man, what it is they must be hiding? are we so cinical that we cannot except the rights and beliefs of others. we are all different that is what makes us unique individuals.

[shiminimo]

mgirl, i think PINK is a lovely color!!!!!

[DN]

o.k. here's my question. and i don't mean to offend. if two gay couples are raising up a child do they tend to follow their parents and be gay or do they get raised up being able to choose between straight or gay? will they be influenced at all being raised up by gay parents or will they be able to choose their own sexual preference?

 

They would be allowed to choose their own sexuality. I was raised by straight parents and i am gay. So was my sister and she is straight.

 

I know plenty of gay people with children and they are allowed to have their own preferences. Lol.

 

Good point. If straight parents don't turn gay children straight, or keep them straight, gay parents are unlikely to turn straight children gay.

 

I believe that gay parents will love and cherish their children as much as straight parents, and will do whatever is in the children's best interests.

[melrich]

are we so cinical that we cannot except the rights and beliefs of others.

 

Human beings struggle with people, cultures, religions, languages, sexuality, values that are different to their own. Our own way of life and living is "the right way".

 

That is part of being a human and you have to put this into the context of the human race, especially think about where we were 100 years ago and where we are today.

 

Old values run deep and to expect them to loosen their grip in just 100 years is unrealistic.

[shiminimo]

my point plainly is this:

 

we have so many terrible things going on is this world, real issues such as drugs, abuse and murder.

 

why are we so focused on gays and taking the right away from them to choose to get married

 

what have they done that is supposedly so terrible. i think that they have NO RIGHTS is what is so terrible.

[sasha12]

o.k. it's like this!

 

 

HOW would you people feel if you had a child that was gay. most of us wouldn't care. beause we would love them because that is our child.

 

You would want the best for that child right? You would want that child to grow up and be happy.

 

You would want him to have all the rights he is deserving of.

YOU would want him to marry and have a family.

because he is a part of your family.

[combat_barbie]

Yes to both.

 

People mentioned that kids couldn't be raised correctly without both parents well think the fact that in 2002 23% of children under 18 were living with their mothers only, 5% with their fathers only, and 4% with neither parent. We better nab all thsoe kids into foster care because they all don't have two parents.

 

Please not everyone has two parents and it isn't essential. Lots of women are single moms by choice as well because they want to raise a child but don't have the energy to meet a man and get married so they adopt. I've never heard of an oposition for this.

 

Sure maybe their would be a problem if the couple was flambouyantly gay and threw wild sex parties, or refused to let there kids do activities that don't fit the stereotype of a gay person. But lets face it rarely to gay people even fit this stereotype.

 

Anyone here heard of "Billy Tipton". Well he was a she who dressed up as a man so she would be allowed to play music which was frowned upon at the time, the 1930s. Anyway she assumed the identity full time married a woman adopted sons and they weren't even aware that their dad was a woman until the medic told them when she died.

[OceanEyes]

With all of the other crap going on in the world, why shouldn't we just embrace love in any form it may take? I swear, it must be human nature to create issues to escape the mundane.

 

Love is love. Straight people don't have a monopoly on it.

[darkblue]

With all of the other crap going on in the world, why shouldn't we just embrace love in any form it may take? I swear, it must be human nature to create issues to escape the mundane.

 

Love is love. Straight people don't have a monopoly on it.

 

Agreed, but children are a different matter.

[UT]

My point of view: There cannot be any sexual love between children and adults. It's only confusion. A sick person taking advantage of a child's innocence and inability to protect themselves.

 

 

As for the gay marriage thing... what can I say? I'm gay. Of course it should be allowed. it not up to society who should and who shouldn't be allowed to be married. It's not gods will? Why then were we created? You shouldn't judge... aren't be being judged by the religious people, the conservatives when they say that our love isn't real. When they say it's an abomination. It's not up to them to decide what good and bad. Homosexual or not we all have right to be treated equally. Even in the eyes of god.

 

Were we a mistake? Then we were a wonderful mistake! Bless that mistake! Oh, wait. God is almighty, right? he can do whatever he wants. Even correct errors then maybe we were meant to be.

 

here in Sweden you can't get married if you're homosexual but we have something else with the same rules and privileges as marriage but it has another name and of course no church. If I want to get married later on, the church won't be a problem. I'm an atheist. (An atheist who loves to use religious stuff in his argument)

[lillady898]

I know I said I was finished posting on this thread, but I've read something and I now feel compelled. It has nothing to do with the whole gay-marriage and children issue. Someone said that many single parents adopt because they don't have the energy to find a partner... I don't think anyone who doesn't have the energy to find a partner will have the energy to raise a child. I just thought I'd address that.

 

 

This is not something completely societal. I think it has more to do with how you grew up and your genetics, quite honestly. Society can only put a certain amount of pressure on someone who truly disagrees. Why else would there be so many movements for gay-rights, womens-rights, etc.? Obviously someone is rebelling against society. Societal influence only goes so far. Then it boils down to you as an individual. If a person as an individual is weak-minded and reliant on others, sure, society will have a great affect on their beleifs. So, thereforeeee, I completely disregard any "evidence" that reasons that people are against gay-marriages because society says it is wrong. It's not emperical enough for anyone to even consider. Especially when the opposite is the case. The liberal push is getting stronger every year, causing more and more of this societal influence to be for gay rights. I feel like we're going back in time.

[SeaBisquit]

How do we know how gay parent would be? we have given them a chance

 

everyone deserve a right to have a fair shakeing at something they desire, for those of you that disagree with gay marriages what is it really that your worried about???

[darkblue]

How do we know how gay parent would be? we have given them a chance

 

everyone deserve a right to have a fair shakeing at something they desire, for those of you that disagree with gay marriages what is it really that your worried about???

 

Check my previous responses. I've said everything that I have to on this subject.

[lillady898]

I've already stated my main concern: Children should grow up with both a mother and a father figure. Not two mothers. Not two fathers. That is my beleif. Feel free to share your beleifs, but do not tell me I'm wrong in beleiving this.

[darkblue]

I've already stated my main concern: Children should grow up with both a mother and a father figure. Not two mothers. Not two fathers. That is my beleif. Feel free to share your beleifs, but do not tell me I'm wrong in beleiving this.

 

Ditto.

[RayKay]

I've already stated my main concern: Children should grow up with both a mother and a father figure. Not two mothers. Not two fathers. That is my beleif. Feel free to share your beleifs, but do not tell me I'm wrong in beleiving this.

 

What of single parents then?

[darkblue]

The vast majority of children brought up under a one parent family - feel the effects. It's not exactly the best circumstances for a child.

 

It's hardly ideal.

 

Edit: They also tend to seek comfort from the gendered parent they are missing.

 

I.e. Children with absent fathers will seek out a father figure, and vice versa.