Gay marriages

[shiminimo]

please don't turn this into a debate. we are alled entitled to are opinions. please keep it nice.

[RayKay]

This is the first and last I will say about this; so I will ignore further provoking.

 

That's true darkblue, but how would you feel if you were dinied the right and privledge to get married and have children?

 

If gay couples were meant to be given the 'privillege' of children - they would have a way to reproduce.

 

That's my view.

 

What about couples whom find they can't conceive and turn to in vitro - I guess by that statement they should not be allowed to do that either then. Nor should they adopt. After all, if they were meant to have privilege of having children, they would of been given way to reproduce.

 

There are a lot of unwanted or children without family in this world - why deny them the opportunity to grow up loved and cared for. And there is not enough straight people it seems to take them all on either.

[darkblue]

This is the first and last I will say about this; so I will ignore further provoking.

 

That's true darkblue, but how would you feel if you were dinied the right and privledge to get married and have children?

 

If gay couples were meant to be given the 'privillege' of children - they would have a way to reproduce.

 

That's my view.

 

What about couples whom find they can't conceive and turn to in vitro - I guess by that statement they should not be allowed to do that either then. Nor should they adopt. After all, if they were meant to have privilege of having childre, they would of been given way to reproduce.

 

But that is a couple - man and woman, who were born able to reproduce.

 

This was one point of many I have.

 

For instance - I don't believe that same gendered parents can bring the children up in a healthy atmosphere. They will be lacking support or love from one specific gender - this could lead them into trouble in later life.

 

That's all I'm saying for tonight on this issue.

 

I hold my opinion.

 

(Edit - typing error)

[RayKay]

I know you are not "saying" anything else but honestly, the gay persons were thereforeeee "born" able to reproduce as well by that logic - what if one of them decided thereforeeee to go sleep with someone just to conceive (with all people knowing that is intent of course)? I mean, that would be "natural" right? Or would it be? Or they found a surrogate, just as a straight couple might do.

 

And if a couple is having fertility problems, I would say at least one of them was apparently "not born" able to do so or at least something happened along the way that made them unable too. If they can choose to get help, or adopt, why can't a gay couple do the same?

 

It takes more than being able to contribute sperm or an egg to be a good parent, and that is not something exclusive or inclusive to a person either straight or gay. And just because your parents are both male, or female for example, does not preclude role models of both sex's being present in your lives - just like with single parents.

[DN]

Further reading fo those interested:

 

link removed

[shiminimo]

i started this topic because i have two gay friend that wish they could get married and adopt.

 

they have gone through so much troubles because of the way society thinks or believes what is best.

 

i on the otherhand am not sure what i think of children being brought up in a gay household. i do know that my friends would make good parents but i feel that the child will be riduculed later in life and have to due some explaining on why his/her parents are gay.

 

it has alot to do with what society has taught us to believe

 

 

i really hope someday that gay marriages do become legal.

 

i just know that my brother will not be able to handle what society will dish out to him.

[lillady898]

Part of my reasoning of why I say no, stems from the fact that we were created to reproduce. Of course, we accomplish many other things along the way; However, no organism was created without the intention of them reproducing. We were not created to have same-sex relationships. It's just biologically incorrect in many different ways.

 

If we let everyone have the same right of being able to marry whomever they choose, it will be difficult to draw the line. Marriage was meant to be male and female. Eventually, who's to say that we won't be fighting for man/dog marriages and woman/robot marriages once they become more socially acceptable?

 

As far as them not having children- There are many other familes who would like to adopt (and who are on waiting lists, in fact) that have both a mother and father figure, which I think is very important.

 

I've had this debate many times with friends, and it's one that never gets resolved.

[DN]

As far as them not having children- There are many other familes who would like to adopt (and who are on waiting lists, in fact) that have both a mother and father figure, which I think is very important.

 

I've had this debate many times with friends, and it's one that never gets resolved.

 

Except that according to the article I just posted there are half a million children in the US foster-care programme. Where is the line-up of heterosexual couples waiting to adopt them? Most people who adopt want to adopt babies.

[pizzachick13]

Wow, this thread is getting heated

[lillady898]

Right. And possibly that may be why we should be pushing more in our society for something that affects a larger quantity of children (such as say, trying to make the adoption of older children easier and more acceptable), rather than one that is so minute (allowing gays to adopt children). Gays will likely only want to adopt babies as well. Babies haven't yet been "brainwashed" (as many would call it) against gayrights movements.

 

But I definetly see what you're saying.

 

I agree to disagree at this point in time. Many of my friends disagree, and some don't. But that's what I love. I respect people more for having an opinion than having no opinion, even if it's different from my own.

[DN]

I don't think anybody is being disrespectful particularly. As Darkblue said he is entitled to his opinion, he expressed it and left it there, at least for now.

 

I differ from him - but I am not disrespecting his opinion.

 

"I disagree with what you say but I will defend unto death your right to say it."

 

RayKay - I hope your brother and his partner realise their wishes.

[RayKay]

I don't think anybody is being disrespectful particularly. As Darkblue said he is entitled to his opinion, he expressed it and left it there, at least for now.

 

I differ from him - but I am not disrespecting his opinion.

 

"I disagree with what you say but I will defend unto death your right to say it."

 

RayKay - I hope your brother and his partner realise their wishes.

 

I feel same, there is nothing wrong with healthy debate and trying to understand more the other persons opinions. Just because I don't share same opinion, does not mean I don't think someone who disagrees with me should not have it!

 

Thanks DN, I hope so too - they are a wonderful, loving couple, and they are both amazingly kind and generous - a child would be blessed to have them as parents, just as they would be blessed to raise them.

[sasha12]

earlier i posted about my best a ( woman) who is gay. she was married and had a daughter and she filed for a divorce from her husband so that she could be in a gay relationship.

 

The judge in the state of michigan came very close to awarding custody to her husband just beause she was gay.

 

she is a wonderful mother and her and her partner are wonderful to her daughter.

 

i just think that because she is GAY, she almost lost her daughter and for no other reason then that.

[DN]

This is not meant to be contentious in any way - but I think that the history of society's acceptance of gays over the last hundred years or so, shows that the complete integration of gays into main-stream society, with all the rights, privileges and responsibilities that entails, is only a matter of time. I mean a matter of years, not decades.

 

Consider that just over a hundred years ago Oscar Wilde went to jail and was socially ruined because of his sexuality, that the idea of an openly gay politician even thirty years ago would have been unthinkable, and that homosexual encounters would have been considered pornographic for film and television until fairly recently.

[sasha12]

society has it so that many people wouldn't even come out and admit they were gay.

 

now we are seeing more telivised programs involving gays or lesbians and to tell you the truth i think it is about time.

 

look at Rosie O"Donnell she's a lesbian and she has adopted children. society loves her.

[lillady898]

Sorry, but I honestly do take offense to anyone who says that those against gay marriages and against their right to adopt is being persuaded by what society believes to be correct. Anyone could say the same about people becoming more accepting of gay rights. Society is putting more pressure on people when it comes to gay rights. That would be very easy to say. I find it very offensive when activists see those opposed as "close-minded."

 

I do not allow society to pursuade my beleifs, just because I think in a more biological/realistic manner about this particular situation. There are still people out there who have a mind of their own, and view all of the facts before forming a stance on anything- Even if others disagree. That, in my mind, is not driven by society and surely is not close-minded.

[DN]

Sorry, but I honestly do take offense to anyone who says that those against gay marriages and against their right to adopt is being persuaded by what society believes to be correct. Anyone could say the same about people becoming more accepting of gay rights. Society is putting more pressure on people when it comes to gay rights. That would be very easy to say. I find it very offensive when activists see those opposed as "close-minded."

 

I do not allow society to pursuade my beleifs, just because I think in a more biological/realistic manner about this particular situation. There are still people out there who have a mind of their own, and view all of the facts before forming a stance on anything- Even if others disagree. That, in my mind, is not driven by society and surely is not close-minded.

 

You may not be and it is a good thing to have a mind of your own and form opinions accordingly.

 

But the fact remains that we are a societal people. People in general do form their opinions from what others think and generally a consensus emerges that, sooner or later, governs the way society views and legislates issues. But the one constant in this is that the consensus is constantly changing

[sasha12]

i'm all for gay marriages as adults i think we are perfectly capable of defending ourselves.

 

 

a child with gay parents, no way can a child defend theirselves agaisnt society. and that's the evil truth as i see it.

[shes2smart]

a child with gay parents, no way can a child defend theirselves agaisnt society. and that's the evil truth as i see it.

 

When my father told his parents he was going to marry my mother, my grandparents had a conniption. He was a midwestern white protestant boy, and my mother was a catholic filipina. His parents gave him all kinds of crap about "mixed race" babies and what a tough time the children would have....and then they gave him a lotta crap about the religious differences. Which struck me as funny when I found about it years later because my grandparents were the "Church on Christmas and Easter only" kind of church-goers. This would have been the early 1960's, and my paternal grandparents would have been.....oh....in their late 40's to mid 50's at that time.

 

Funny. I seem to have turned out just fine. Gainfully employed, tax-payin', bill-payin', decent human being. Don't remember being traumatized by any racial slurs in grade school, junior high, high school and beyond. I had decidedly oriental features as a child, in a school system that was predominantly white and jewish. So, yeah, I stuck out in a line-up, but I still managed to make friends and get along with most everybody just fine. Kids pick on other kids for a variety of reasons...it's part of growing up. There was a thread on here earlier today where a few female posters were relating stories of being harassed at school because of their breast size. So, even if you would eliminate the difference of "gay parents" there will still be a million other things a kid could get picked on for.

 

People fear what they don't know and/or don't understand.

 

As I said in a previous post...I'd much rather see a gay couple who have a solid, healthy relationship be parents to a child than a heterosexual couple with a drama-laden, stormy relationship who only have a child because they were remiss in their use of birth control.

 

We have to be licensed to drive a vehicle, but any hetero couple can go create a baby -- whether they intend to or not. In order to get a drivers license we have to take driving lessons and/or pass a test and then pay a fee. But any hetero couple can go to city hall buy a marriage license, no questions asked, no counseling required, no classes required.

 

Is it just me, or is something wrong with that picture?

[sasha12]

I agree with everything you are saying she2smart you have made some valid points.

i just wish that society in general weren't so hard on gay and lesbians. i believe that if two people are in love. no matter their color, race or gender they should be allowed to create a family of their own.

 

i think the because the law doesn't allow gays to wed is very wrong. what ever happened to everyone should be treated equal. there is much discrimination against gay people it just isn't fair to them.

[BillyJean714]

My hairstylist is gay, and I LOVE him to bits and pieces! He's such a gentle person, and I would hate to see how much prejudices he has to put up with in his daily life. He's human too, and deserves the rightful respect. Every human being deserves to be happy. I'm not Godgiven, so I feel like it's wrong for me to say "No, you can't be married." And, I thought that those who do believe in God were also taught to "Love thy neighbors", so I really wouldn't want to condescend my beliefs onto gay people just because they're different. I treat people with respect, as long as they don't hurt others. I don't see how gay marriages is really putting a threat onto other people's lives. In reality, some people's sexual preference is in their genetics. Some people are born that way, so I don't see why being so hard on them is such a nice thing. I'm all for gay marriages.

 

Personally, I feel that there are more important societal issues, such as the number of innocent people murdered due to the number of bombs dropped onto 'civillian territory' just for monetary power. That's more devastating to me. It's extrememly mortifying. What's really sad is, I wish people could just stop hating. If we had more people who learned to accept that people are different, then I think this world would be a better place. Most often, people don't know how it feels to be put down by ignorance, not unless if they've been through it. Sad. But, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.

[metallicachica247]

i completely and totally think that they should. If you are gay, you are still a person, in turn to that, (i am strait dont get me wrong) but should straight people be allowed to marry? of COURSE! My brother's girlfriend has 2 mom and she and her sister were both adopted and her moms are great at parenting. My boyfriend's brother is gay, and i think he should be able to marry whoever he wants. It isnt an issue of gay or not, it is an issue of human or not. They are still human and have the same rights as any straight person does we are all the same with different tastes in guys/girls. Its not fair that you cant be the person you are because of some dumb president!

[metallicachica247]

when we get into people not being able to adopt, that make me peeved and really upset. If gay people can't adopt why should straight people be able to? if they werent able to, i wouldnt be here today. i was adopted into a "normal" family, my mom my dad me, and i have an african american brother and families wouldnt so easily be biracial if there was no adoption and gay people need this right just as much as we do

[darkblue]

I can see that this post is just going to get more and more heated - hence why I dropped out.

 

I've already been flamed due to this thread and it's in the hands of a moderator.

 

If anyone else wishes to know anymore on my particular stance - feel free to PM me, but I won't be disrespected. And I will no longer take part in a thread that's getting continually heated.

[mgirl]

As far as them not having children- There are many other familes who would like to adopt (and who are on waiting lists, in fact) that have both a mother and father figure, which I think is very important.

 

I've had this debate many times with friends, and it's one that never gets resolved.

 

Except that according to the article I just posted there are half a million children in the US foster-care programme. Where is the line-up of heterosexual couples waiting to adopt them? Most people who adopt want to adopt babies.

 

So, why are heterosexual the only privilaged ones then? I mean, marriage is a social institution coined by human beings and is not biological, so the fact that gay and lesbian people cannot get married is just another way the majority subjegate the minority, for whatever reasons they do (to feel powerful and vidicated in some way). Typical. If the situation was reversed, i bet heterosexual people would cry blue murder at not being able to get married. Infact, they probably did, hence the laws we have now.

 

Gay people take things pretty easily i think. You (or anybody reading this who is not gay) try to live life in our shoes for a year, or even a day... We are constantly fighting prejudice and standing up for our "love rights"...

 

If we walk down the street with a lover, we get stared at or ostracised, or cheered (!), but If heterosexuals do, it is celebrated and celebrated by marriage. Personally, i would rather be myself and live the life i choose and not be noticed or stand out in any way.