Desperate advice needed

[Tinydance]

1 minute ago, Batya33 said:

I don't see it that way at all and the examples you give are apples and oranges.  I agree that if a parent doesn't want their child exposed to a certain adult the parent has the final word on that.  I took my son for a playdate once to my neighbor and her husband was there - I didn't like how he spoke to his stepchildren, they also had a baby together but he didn't interact either way. I didn't want my son around that person again so even if it would have meant foregoing a playdate at her home when he was home I would have said no.  With the consequence of missing a playdate. Others might have thought his form of discipline was effective.  I didn't.  I'm the mama.  I get that say in who my child is exposed to in close quarters. (They ended up divorcing about a year later).

I don't think it's apples and oranges necessarily. I think this case is similar in the sense that the child wants something and this isn't exactly a child. She's 13 so she's a teenager in high school. There is no harm meeting this man just the same she might meet her Dad's new girlfriend. If the parent wants to control their child there should be a good reason for it. In this case there isn't. Everyone is saying: "Well he's the parent he can do what he wants". Yes sure he can but he's being a jerk.

[Coily]

2 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Well this is a 30 something adult being immature and petty. Basically being an a - hole. And all you guys seem to be taking his side? I don't get it?

Since we don’t know the background, calling him immature or petty or anything else is silly. For all we know the Son could be a cop and found out the new BF is a convicted pedo. (Hopefully hyperbolic statement, no offense to the OP) If a parent has any reason to not allow a stranger around their child, I’m with the parent.

So yeah, until we know anything about why. We’re just going off our inclinations.

[Tinydance]

Just now, Coily said:

Since we don’t know the background, calling him immature or petty or anything else is silly. For all we know the Son could be a cop and found out the new BF is a convicted pedo. (Hopefully hyperbolic statement, no offense to the OP) If a parent has any reason to not allow a stranger around their child, I’m with the parent.

So yeah, until we know anything about why. We’re just going off our inclinations.

So you're saying ANY reason? The reason doesn't actually need to be good or valid? 

[Coily]

Just now, Tinydance said:

So you're saying ANY reason? The reason doesn't actually need to be good or valid? 

. As I said before as long as it’s not abuse or commission of a criminal act, any reason. 
If this was the child’s mother objecting, would you have a different answer? Not wanting to put you on the spot.

[Batya33]

Just now, Tinydance said:

I don't think it's apples and oranges necessarily. I think this case is similar in the sense that the child wants something and this isn't exactly a child. She's 13 so she's a teenager in high school. There is no harm meeting this man just the same she might meet her Dad's new girlfriend. If the parent wants to control their child there should be a good reason for it. In this case there isn't. Everyone is saying: "Well he's the parent he can do what he wants". Yes sure he can but he's being a jerk.

Dad's new girlfriend -no - I wouldn't be a fan.  If girlfriend was about to be a fiancee and potentially a step mom then yes.  My niece met her mom's new boyfriend around that age -newish but for very short periods of time like going to Walmart or going for ice cream.  When they became more serious maybe they met more often I don't recall.  They broke up after 7 years dating.  

A parent is allowed to act like a jerk in this sense -parents are targeted this way regularly - they are "helicopter parents" or "work too much/prioritize work over child" and on and on and on.  I'm a fan of a parent not being judged in this particular situation. I wrote what I thought about your apples/oranges kid of a different race situation.  

I've had to keep my child away from certain adults and from certain situations based on my own personal opinions in certain situations.  I'm not a fan of being questioned or judged when I make a decision I am basing on my child's best interests in which adults he interacts with.  I believe this child's dad is doing that in this case.  And if some think he's a jerk because to them it's important a child meet the man her grandmother is dating and crazy about so be it.  Parents have to endure that sort of judgment regularly.

[Batya33]

6 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

So you're saying ANY reason? The reason doesn't actually need to be good or valid? 

Yes because this man is much older than her, might not be around for a long time in her grandmother's life and is never going to be her stepparent.  I can see if they marry and she is invited to the wedding it might be nice if she can attend to show up for her grandmother.  If she really wanted to go to the wedding that's limited interaction with the groom and a nice way to celebrate her grandmother.  Then I can see it as more arbitrary to say no you can't even go to a wedding reception because she's marrying someone who is not my father.

Good and valid is: I am the parent, to me it's not in your best interests to meet this person and this person is not an important person in your life such that you need to meet him.  The end.  I get to do that as a parent in a multitude of situations as in "why? because I said so."

 

[Wiseman2]

On 12/12/2023 at 6:50 PM, Classyangel said:

. My granddaughter is dying to meet my partner.

Please focus on getting legally divorced rather than contacting your son's ex to undermine him. Franky, the last person your granddaughter needs in her life is your BF.   She has parents, aunts, uncles and her own real grandfather. Please get your situation in order before you drag children into it. 

[Tinydance]

32 minutes ago, Coily said:

. As I said before as long as it’s not abuse or commission of a criminal act, any reason. 
If this was the child’s mother objecting, would you have a different answer? Not wanting to put you on the spot.

No I don't think so? I don't usually care about gender.

[boltnrun]

My kids have never met my father. I'm not being "petty" or "immature". I have no relationship with my father because he's a deadbeat dad and I would not expose my kids to someone of such low moral character who didn't care if his own children had food or adequate clothing. 

I know nothing about the OP's gentleman friend. He may be of stellar character. But there must be some reason why her son doesn't want his daughter around him. His wishes have to be respected. 

[Tinydance]

40 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

My kids have never met my father. I'm not being "petty" or "immature". I have no relationship with my father because he's a deadbeat dad and I would not expose my kids to someone of such low moral character who didn't care if his own children had food or adequate clothing. 

I know nothing about the OP's gentleman friend. He may be of stellar character. But there must be some reason why her son doesn't want his daughter around him. His wishes have to be respected. 

Well, as I commented, if there's a good reason for it it's absolutely fine. If your Dad was a bad person then that was a particular reason. If this man is a nice man and the only reason son dislikes him is he's his father's replacement then that's merely a personal prejudice. It's nothing to do with who this man actually is or what he did. 

[Batya33]

6 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Well, as I commented, if there's a good reason for it it's absolutely fine. If your Dad was a bad person then that was a particular reason. If this man is a nice man and the only reason son dislikes him is he's his father's replacement then that's merely a personal prejudice. It's nothing to do with who this man actually is or what he did. 

The good reason is "I am the father, I would prefer my minor child not meet this adult who is dating my mother for a few years."  I simply don't think he needs any particular reason why his minor child shouldn't meet an older man who is dating her grandmother. I don't think it's as important as the father's wishes being respected. Especially considering why his mother is dating this man.  But putting that to the side I think a parent's wishes should be respected in this situation whether arbitrary or some sort of subjective "good reason."  

In 6 years if this man is still in her life or if there's some other man dating her grandmother and she as an adult wants to meet her grandmother's current partner or this partner -that's her choice.

And like others said the OP should be careful about making a big deal out of this and put her granddaughter's best interests in having a relationship with her, first.

 

[boltnrun]

It's also not clear if this relationship began as an extramarital affair. 

I wish the OP could clarify. 

[rainbowsandroses]

Agree, it would be helpful if the OP returned, answered questions and provided more context. 

Anyway, without more context and assuming he is a kind upstanding law-abiding member of society, what I'm wondering (hypothetically) is what happens on holidays or other special occasions?  Say for example Thanksgiving or Christmas/Hanukkah celebrations? 

All my serious boyfriends accompanied me to such events when celebrated at my mom's home after her and my dad's divorce.

It' was a standard thing.  And my mom's gentleman friend would be there naturally and we all met him if we hadn't already.  Including her grandchildren.

Should OP's granddaughter be prevented from attending such celebrations at her grandmother's home because gasp, grandma's gentleman friend will be there and dad refuses to let her meet him? 

If so, why?  Because her dad said so because HE'S the father, and whatever HE says rules?   Without providing her with any reason as to why she cannot attend and meet him?   

And/or simply meet him even outside the context of a celebration?

It sounds perverse quite frankly and I would think quite confusing to her granddaughter as her granddaughter wonders why all the secrecy surrounding meeting her beloved grandmother's boyfriend? 

What IS the big deal?  Is grandma dating an ex-con or something?  A registered sex-offender or convicted  pedophile? 

If not, what's the harm?   

It's something she wants to do but dad says NO so that's it, case closed.  

If anything THAT type of overt control  may screw her up way more than meeting the man her grandma is in love with and makes her happy. 

She is 13 years old, not 6.

We need more context. 

[lostandhurt]

On 12/12/2023 at 3:50 PM, Classyangel said:

Finally decided to think of me & I asked for a separation.

Did you divorce or are you still married?

Lost

[Batya33]

I know of many instances where a bf or gf is not included -or not presumably included - in family holiday gatherings.  It depends.  In my subjective opinion I think the father should allow the daughter to attend and be in the same household as this boyfriend but totally ok not to invite him to his own home.  When I was the SO it depended.  I also was invited to certain weddings solo even if I had an SO as the cut off was "only if engaged or married."  

I do think it would be unfortunate for the daughter to miss out on spending time with her grandmother just because at a larger gathering the boyfriend would be there.  Different from having the daughter meet this man one on one in order to get to know him more in depth.

[boltnrun]

One piece of collateral damage so to speak is my kids have no relationship with their uncle (my half brother) or his wife or their child. Unfortunately my brother demanded I have a relationship with our father or he would not have a relationship with me. I will not ever have any kind of relationship with my father so sadly I have not seen my brother in about 20 years and have never met my sister in law or my nephew. it's a shame, but I didn't create this situation.

I do feel the parents have every right to decide who their child will be exposed to. Even if it doesn't seem logical. 

But I still would like to know if this relationship began as an extramarital affair. I feel if it was it could explain the son's feelings about the gentleman friend. 

[rainbowsandroses]

38 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I do think it would be unfortunate for the daughter to miss out on spending time with her grandmother just because at a larger gathering the boyfriend would be there.  Different from having the daughter meet this man one on one in order to get to know him more in depth.

Not sure how it's different, not to mention OP said nothing about her meeting him "one-on-one to get to know him in more depth."  

Her granddaughter would simply like to meet him as he's very important to her grandmother's and makes her happy.

All together over a casual dinner at her home.or something, not one on one to get to know him in more depth.   

Also, question.

I'm the granddaughter and I ask my dad "dad why can't I meet grandma's boyfriend"?

Dad:  Because I'm your father and said so.

No other reason.

Some parents (not you Batya or Bolt) have no idea what that type of perverse domination and control does to a child. 

It's not good, jmo based on experience.  Not from my dad but my mom.

I write this without having more context. 

In any event, this thread is a one and done from the OP and wish her the best. 

 

 

 

[tattoobunnie]

Get divorced first before bringing a new boyfriend around.  Plus, your son is deflecting, because I'm sure he sees himself in his dad's shoes.  Either way, you must respect the parent(s) choices for their own kids.

11 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I'm the granddaughter and I ask my dad "dad why can't I meet grandma's boyfriend"?

Dad:  Because I'm your father and said so.

No other reason.

My MIL has never met both my kids.  And I explain to them exactly why.  They both thrive and visit with their other three sets of healthy and loving grandparents regularly.   Some scenarios are not based on domination.  It's protecting them from toxic and abusive people.

[Batya33]

16 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Not sure how it's different, not to mention OP said nothing about her meeting him "one-on-one to get to know him in more depth."  

Her granddaughter would simply like to meet him as he's very important to her grandmother's and makes her happy.

All together over dinner at her home.or something, not one on one to get to know him. 

Also, question.

I'm the granddaughter and I ask my dad "dad why can't I meet grandma's boyfriend"?

Dad:  Because I'm your father and said so.

No other reason.

Some parents (not you Batya or Bolt) have no idea what that type of perverse domination and control does to a child.

It's not good, jmo based on experience.  Not from my dad but my mom.

I write this without having more context. 

In any event, this thread is a one and done from the OP and wish her the best. 

 

 

 

I'm totally comfortable in specific situations with because I said so. In my personal family my child has thrived on that -used sparingly but used - he gets structure and comfort from it and knows I have his best interests at heart. Sometimes I'll add in my reasoning but make it clear to him that it's not up for negotiation.  Often it's safety related.  Here it may be -the safety of her emotional health, for family peace, etc.  We don't know 

I am thrilled my parents said because I said so in certain situations to me.  I felt loved and cared for.  It's my job as his parent to keep him safe.  I am thrilled certain of my teachers took that tack with certain classroom rules ,etc.  Almost always it is safety related and if he crosses boundaries in whining about me saying no or saying yes with limits - I go to "it's not up for negotiation."  I am perfectly fine with that and so is he.  I tell him "the worst argument you can make is what other parents let their kids do."  

My son would like to do lots of things and has wanted to go to certain homes I won't let him go to, has wanted certain sleepovers etc - I'm the parent so I get veto power.  He knows this.  It makes him feel very secure!  Kids want lots of stuff.  Parents have to have and provide structure and boundaries and security along with oodles of fun, love, hugs, yummy food, nutritious food, and on and on and on.  He can say to his daughter "I have my personal reasons.  I'm not comfortable with you spending time with this man."   

But it's besides the point here.  This is simply a man his grandmother is dating for a couple of years - I don't think it's important at all for her to meet him and she can meet him when she is an adult.

You're making all sorts of assumptions and we need more info.  I interpreted it as meet -spend one on one time with the man her grandmother is dating.  I agree with Bolt.  

[rainbowsandroses]

20 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I'm totally comfortable in specific situations with because I said so.

Sure in some instances of course, especially when it's potentially harmful, and when it's reasonable and you explain to your child why they can't so they understand. 

But here, all she wants to do is meet the boyfriend, nothing potentially harmful about that, that we know of anyway.

But dad says NO providing her no reason other than I'm your dad and said so.  To me, THAT is potentially harmful. 

I think when it's a young child, 12 or under, that might be acceptable but she is 13, a young lady coming into her own.

Anyway, jmo and again good luck to the OP.

[boltnrun]

8 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

But dad says NO providing her no reason other than I'm your dad and said so. 

I didn't see that he said that in the OP. Can you quote where she said he used those words? I must have missed it. 

[Batya33]

11 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Sure in some instances of course, especially when it's potentially harmful, and when it's reasonable and you explain to your child why they can't so they understand. 

But here, all she wants to do is meet the boyfriend, nothing potentially harmful about that, that we know of anyway.

But dad says NO providing her no reason other than I'm your dad and said so.  To me, THAT is potentially harmful. 

I think when you're a young child, 12 or under, that might be acceptable but she is 13, a young lady coming into her own.

Anyway, jmo and again good luck to the OP.

No actually my point is I don't need to always explain my reasoning to a child -as they get older that gets rarer I guess. I don't agree with you at all that this dad is doing anything harmful at all.  I don't think she needs to meet the man her grandmother is dating and I don't think it's harmful for her dad to say no -adults often have very private and personal reasons and kids don't need to know and aren't always entitled to know. 

I will never tell my son why for the last year or so of my FIL's life I avoided spending time with him - I didn't at all put any limits on his time with his grandson -he was an awesome grandfather -but if my son had asked me to be there at the same time I'd have said no - and I'd have not felt any reason to tell him why - they were adult, personal reasons. If he asked me now about why I did that in the past I'd say the same thing.  

And she can meet this person when she's 18.  I do think IMHO it would be a bit extreme if the granddaughter couldn't attend a family wedding or like event just because this man would be there unless there was a true safety reason.

Also as I know and most parents know age is not what's often relevant. My son is 14 going on 4 and 24.  When I was 14 I was more mature than he is.  He's chomping at the bit sometimes for more independence than he has now and as his parent I assess it not by his age -although that is a factor in certain specific situations -but what I think he can handle.  He didn't have an iphone till age 14.  Many of his friends were like 9-10.  He wasn't ready for sleepaway camp at age 9- many of his friends were.  He has more maturity and responsibility in other areas of his life as compared to his friends and less in others. It's not about the number when the child is a minor.  

[Batya33]

Here is my sense. The OP doesn't talk to her kids, so if granddaughter meets the man she is dating he very understandably might be concerned that there will be talk about the family rift and talk that is not favorable, that is skewed, that is biased especially since this man has no history with the OP's husband (or ex husband??) and obviously is not buddy buddy with the granddaughter's grandfather.  It's very sensitive!  And should override a child meeting the man her grandmother is dating.  Even if grandma is head over heels -that's not particularly relevant to a granddaughter -this man who is so loved by grandma will never be her stepparent and who knows if they'll still be dating or happy next year.

[rainbowsandroses]

57 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I didn't see that he said that in the OP. Can you quote where she said he used those words? I must have missed it. 

@boltnrun please be respectful and not put posters (me) on the spot by asking them to quote something when you know darn well they can't.

Without more context, it was an assumption which I was not the first to introduce into the discussion; just like @Batya's assumption that OP wanted her granddaughter to meet her boyfriend to "get to know him in more depth."

I didn't ask @Batya33 to quote where OP said that (nor did you), I knew it was an assumption.

Without the proper context, we are all making assumptions.

And unless and until OP returns and provides more context, assumptions will continue to be made which is why I am choosing to opt out of further commenting.

Ciao.

 

 

[Jaunty]

8 hours ago, Batya33 said:

The good reason is "I am the father, I would prefer my minor child not meet this adult who is dating my mother for a few years." 

 

I don't have an opinion, but I do have a question:

The child's mother seems to be ok with a meeting.   

Why does the father's NO supersede the mother's OKAY?