Appropriate Boundaries in a LTR - Jealousy

[rainbowsandroses]

Wow, two REALLY great posts from @Jauntyand @bluecastle. Thank you.

Your thinking used to be MY thinking but my thinking caused issues in my marriage which added to its demise (we're separated) which is why I entered therapy. 

But now after reading your posts, I'm leaning towards my previous way of thinking as it actually rings more true for me.

Bottom line:  My husband was not the right match for me and perhaps I simply need to accept that and don't need to change a damn thing with respect to my values or thinking. 

Thanks again. 

 

[bluecastle]

15 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

My husband was not the right match for me and perhaps I simply need to accept that and don't need to change a damn thing with respect to my values or thinking. 

Sorry to hear you're going through all this, working through it all.

The way I see it, relationships may end for a variety of reasons, but once they've ended? That is irrefutable proof that the match was not a good one, no different than an incoming storm proves the day will no longer be a dry one. 

As for changing values and thinking? I think those are things that do change all the time, throughout life, and relationships can certainly have an impact there. That said, I don't think one's values/thinking should change in order for a relationship to function, if that makes sense. With the right someone, they can evolve alongside them—influenced by the other, sure, but never feeling like they must change or else. 

 

[Jaunty]

When I was young I felt like jealousy / possessiveness was a sign of passionate love and kind of hot.  I got "cured" of that ... the hard way.  It's kind of funny to think back on those times.   It's one of the most unappealing traits to me now.  An absolute deal breaker.   

[boltnrun]

Especially when it goes only one way. For example, my ex didn't want me talking to other men, even his own friends. But he believed it was just fine for him to have a woman hanging out in his bedroom until 4:00 am and to text his ex telling her he missed her. He even introduced me as his "bestest friend" to a woman he was hoping to sleep with. But he had a tizzy fit if I texted a guy friend, even mutual friends, or went to happy hour with a girlfriend.

Double standard. Not OK. 

[Type O Negative]

Husband is not jealous in the slightest. He finds jealousy laughable and childish. He is the absolute easiest to be with in this respect (and million others). I essentially can do what I want when I want as far as going out with friends, male or female, or travelling to see my twin sister in Germany.

 

Bear in mind, at our age there isn't a whole lot of going out taking place so we're talking maybe once or twice a week. We mostly go out together though . Went out to our local Italian last night and had a great time!

 

I'm much more jealous but not in a controlling 'you can't go out /travel without me' kind of way. He goes out without me locally and further afield, to gigs, and I'm happy for him to. He goes to Italy (where he's from) without me. Meets up with mates every now and then. He's got female friends in Italy but they're all long-term married and he's known them since like 10 years of age.

 

I would not be happy if he were to regularly go for drinks with a new female friend. He knows this and wouldn't. Another way in which we are compatible. As far as checking each other' s phones - that's just nonsense for kids. We're way way too old for this silliness. 

[shouldhavelearned]

All about the communication and respect you share with your partner.

 

[Batya33]

I had an odd experience when I was married about a year with a new baby. I'd always been about fine with male friends, fine with his female friends. Each morning I was taking my baby out to the jogging path -baby in stroller- headphones for me.  Then a handful of times there was an older gentleman also doing his power walk - so we exchanged greetings and then kept pace and chatted. 

Almost all of our chats were about - our city (brand new to me, not to him), where I moved from/where he was from and my baby and parenting -he was quite a bit older with teenagers and likely divorced but we never spoke of it.  I did mention my husband.  I had no attraction to him, there was no flirting and it was nice to speak with an adult since I was a SAHM.

But - it was my first time actually meeting a new guy after marriage and motherhood.  My mom gives awesome advice (although my dad was her first serious boyfriend LOL) - and I told her about the several chats, that it was enjoyable for me to talk to an actual adult -- but since I was married -was it inappropriate?? She was so surprised I even asked - she said it was totally fine and really good that I had an exercise buddy.  So yes my values/standards seemed to shift with the wedding/motherhood.  Or maybe I wasn't thinking clearly given sleep deprivation.

I never mentioned the guy to my husband - at some point after a handful of conversations over about a month's time  I stopped seeing him on the path.  I will say -if he'd asked me to hang out outside the path I most likely would have said no and/or suggested some sort of families meet up and checked with my husband.  I don't think it would have been appropriate for us to hang out otherwise without checking first. 

Those are my boundaries -and if my husband had said he felt uncomfortable with me seeing him outside the path one on one I'd have respected that -and I would have been shocked if he had a problem with me chatting with the guy while on the path.  It's so individual.

[lostandhurt]

Saying boundaries is not a good thing or shows some sort of incapability is not seeing the big picture.

When you get into a relationship things change because they have to.  You are no longer a single person and so you cannot keep going around acting like a single person because you have entered into a relationship with another.  They have feelings that can be hurt, they have insecurities (we all have them to some degree) and they have needs.

Many times we see threads on here where somebody gets into a relationship and problems start popping up because one of the people keeps acting like they are single.  Could be flirtatiousness, hanging out with buddies as much as before, spending time away from their partner more than they should, staying in contact with ex's and on and on.

 Things change as they should when you choose to become a couple.  Not losing who you are is very important but also flexibility as the relationship grows and becomes closer is important too.  Hoping to find the perfect person that thinks just like you do is a tall task no matter who you are and then there is no guarantee they will not change later on. This is where boundaries come in so you don't do something you think is perfectly harmless that affects your relationship in a negative way.

 "This is how I feel about opposite sex friendships, how do you view it?"  Simple question that allows discussion and compromise so a boundary is clearly defined and thus future problems can be avoided.  If the discussion shines a light on a clear incompatibility then it is discovered way sooner instead of after you are deeply invested. 

  Relationships take work and communication.  Some just wing it and fight out the problems sometimes for years while others try and avoid the problems by knowing where each person stands on the important stuff and working towards a happy medium.  Give and take

Lost

[tattoobunnie]

My husband's comfort and piece of mind is my top priority, and vice versa (these days).  Boundaries need to be discussed and shared, so you are on the same page.  And things can evolve over time, so you must check in with them at least once a year about how they feel in the marriage, with themselves, etc.  A marriage where one is riddled with guilt, or one is walking on egg shells, will eventually implode.  

Now there is unrealistic expectations like, never having or interacting with coworkers of the opposite sex, or sex you are attracted to.  Or having to detail your entire discussions or interactions with people outside of the family.  These are things you have to discuss and see what is acceptable, and what are deal breakers.

I am fine with my husband working with anyone, I am skeptical about any women he might invite to a social engagement with the family or over to our home.  I let him know.  I just avoid this all together with male coworkers. But I'm also the boss, so I just don't fraternize with any of my employees, period.

[Jaunty]

A big part of making concessions because of a partner's jealousy / insecurity is that it is enabling control.   

If I act jealous and Marge stops talking to men, I have circumscribed her life successfully.  

If I don't like it when women I'm with talk to men, then I probably need to date women who don't feel like talking to men.   Or maybe join a religion where people are strictly separated by sex.   

[rainbowsandroses]

I have one male friend, I will call him G, who used to be my boss; after I left that job we stayed in touch and he's been a good friend throughout the years. 

My STBX husband didn't like it.  He knew about my friendship with G from the very early days and claimed he had NO issue with it.

He presented himself to be a secure open-minded man, a man who had no issues with opposite sex friendships.

Nevertheless, once married he felt it was "inappropriate" even though I had offered to introduce them, all three of us get together, perhaps THEY could become friends in their own right. 

He still didn't like it and asked me to end our friendship.  I just couldn't do it, not because I have a "thing" for G but because I felt his request was unreasonable and like @Jauntysaid controlling, which is not what I'm about at all!  

And if I had acquiesced and ended the friendship, where would it stop?  

Anyway, VERY long story short I came to the conclusion he didn't trust me and that was that. 

He moved out.

After that, I sought therapy hence this thread and why I began questioning things. 

Like what I posted in my initial post about "giving up a little bit of yourself for your partner" out of love and respect blah blah.. 

Things my therapist had advised me.

I thought it made sense but then realized after Jaunty's and bluecastle's posts particularly that I need to stay true to myself too. 

What hurt me the most though is that I was/am a REALLY loyal girlfriend and wife, I am not an 'attention seeker' or require endless amounts of validation, I don’t even have SM anymore. 

I never hid anything from him, was always honest when questioned and took my vows and committment very seriously.

it wasn't enough he still didnt trust me, and now it's done. 

Sometimes I think perhaps HE was the one cheating and projecting on to me but who knows. 

Lesson learned, my husband and I married much MUCH too quickly without truly knowing each other.  

I will never make that mistake again.

Thanks again guys, and glad I created this thread, I've learned a lot from all of of you. 

 

 

[Batya33]

I think it was wrong of your husband to reverse course like that and expect you to be ok with it.

[rainbowsandroses]

4 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I think it was wrong of your husband to reverse course like that and expect you to be ok with it.

Thanks Bat.  

He said it early in and honestly I think he meant it at the time not realizing how it would actually affect him once we got married. 

I think people can say things and agree to things but then when that 'thing' actually happens, it's a different story. 

Like some people think and say they're ready for a relationship but then once IN the relationship realize they're not ready, don't want it, after all. 

I don't take what people "say" all that seriously anymore which is sad for me. 

 

[Kwothe28]

1 hour ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Nevertheless, once married he felt it was "inappropriate"

What he felt innapropriate about it? Is it some particular thing you did with your friend or he felt just friendship with men in general is innapropriate?

[Batya33]

Just now, rainbowsandroses said:

Thanks Bat.  

He said it early in and honestly I think he meant it at the time not realizing how it would actually affect him once we got married. 

I think people can say things and agree to things but then when that 'thing' actually happens, it's a different story. 

Like some people think and say they're ready for a relationship but then once IN the relationship realize they're not ready, don't want it, after all. 

I don't take what people "say" all that seriously anymore which is sad for me. 

 

Yes that is sad.  I wouldn't give him a pass - he's an adult and was perfectly capable of saying something in the middle like - I think I am ok with it but.....  Also totally ok if he agreed and then you increased your contact with the person.  I had to accept really huge changes in order to marry and be a mom. 

I had to leave the city I'd lived in for 43 years and relocate 800 miles to a city I'd visited once or twice and knew no one.  I had to agree to solo parent in this new city a lot given my husband's job and travel (although my husband was totally fine with me hiring any sort of help -I was not - although we had a  twice monthly cleaning service).  I had to be ok with him still working with his ex girlfriend for the first year or so we were dating. 

I couldn't say "oh I changed my mind - I won't move /I want to keep working in my city and raise our son here/etc."  I took my promises to him -before we were even engaged -very very seriously and totally knew I didn't know "how I would feel" and totally knew I couldn't say to him "oops I didn't know relocating as a new mom would be this hard so -- sorry about that."

Our words mattered a great deal including our wedding vows.  Obviously there are people who are not good with their word as I described it.  We are.  That was very very important to me.

[rainbowsandroses]

1 minute ago, Kwothe28 said:

What he felt innapropriate about it? Is it some particular thing you did with your friend or he felt just friendship with men in general is innapropriate?

No, he simply felt it was inappropriate for a married woman to a have a semi-close male friend she shared things with other than her husband.

I do think on some level he felt threatened by it or maybe just uncomfortable.

Jealous?  

It became a real thorn in our marriage. 

Others advised to end the friendship, that it wasn't worth losing my husband BUT in truth I began losing respect for him because of his attitude.

I mean why not just meet him as I suggested and become friends with him himself?

IDK perhaps he used it as an excuse to leave, I've thought about that.

 

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, rainbowsandroses said:

No, he simply felt it was inappropriate for a married woman to a have a semi-close male friend she shared things with other than her husband.

I do think on some level he felt threatened by it or maybe just uncomfortable.

Jealous?  

It became a real thorn in our marriage. 

Others advised to end the friendship, that it wasn't worth losing my husband BUT in truth I began losing respect for him because of his attitude.

I mean why not just meet him as I suggested and become friends with him himself?

IDK perhaps he used it as an excuse to leave, I've thought about that.

 

You make a good point -he may have just been trying to stir up trouble.

[shouldhavelearned]

With what you do, would you be okay with your partner doing it and finding out

 

One key to think about

 

[rainbowsandroses]

6 minutes ago, shouldhavelearned said:

With what you do, would you be okay with your partner doing it and finding out.

 

What do you mean "finding out"? 

He knew about my friendship with my ex boss from the beginning, it's nothing he suddenly found out.

And yes if he had a female friend who he offered to introduce me to and get together with, I'd have no issue with their friendship.

[rainbowsandroses]

14 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

You make a good point -he may have just been trying to stir up trouble.

At one point I actually thought he might be cheating but then dismissed the thought. 

We got married way too soon.

We were still In the infatuation stage, big mistake..

I (we?) were also pregnant but we lost it (miscarriage).

 

[Kwothe28]

10 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

No, he simply felt it was inappropriate for a married woman to a have a semi-close male friend she shared things with other than her husband.

 

Ah, I see. That is more possesive from his side.

10 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I mean why not just meet him as I suggested and become friends with him himself?

 

I dunno. I think its kinda weird that they didnt met before the marriage because that is usually when you meet friends and family. But you said you rushed the marriage in general so maybe that is why. Lots of stuff like that you discover in later stages of relationship. People at start are usually at their best behavior and you look at your partner with rose colored glasses. But they cant keep up their best behavior forever and afterward you are more prone on noticing negative stuff. So lots of stuff like that, jealousy, possesivness, comes later down the line. 

[rainbowsandroses]

1 minute ago, Kwothe28 said:

Ah, I see. That is more possesive from his side.

I dunno. I think its kinda weird that they didnt met before the marriage because that is usually when you meet friends and family. But you said you rushed the marriage in general so maybe that is why. Lots of stuff like that you discover in later stages of relationship. People at start are usually at their best behavior and you look at your partner with rose colored glasses. But they cant keep up their best behavior forever and afterward you are more prone on noticing negative stuff. So lots of stuff like that, jealousy, possesivness, comes later down the line. 

Yes thank you I completely agree!

 

[Batya33]

I think the find out part is if you and G ended up being flirtatious etc. I’m very sorry about the loss of your pregnancy and baby!

[rainbowsandroses]

6 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I think the find out part is if you and G ended up being flirtatious etc. I’m very sorry about the loss of your pregnancy and baby!

Thank you Bat and no there was no flirting or anything like that.

Although many years ago WAY before my husband and I met, he did try to date me but I never told my husband. 

Perhaps he found that out, not sure how he would have though.

In retrospect I probably could have handled things better.

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Thank you Bat and no there was no flirting or anything like that.

Although many years ago WAY before my husband and I met, he did try to date me but I never told my husband. 

Perhaps he found that out, not sure how he would have though.

In retrospect I probably could have handled things better.

My good male friend asked me out right after we originally met. No flirting. I said no and we moved on from it. Friends since 1994.