First "date" confusion

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I didn't suggest an alternative - I think it's his turn now to make plans tomorrow, if he wants to see me again, since he rejected my evening plans.

No he didn't reject anything as I said -your plan was last minute -it's not a plan, it's an afterthought - and would have required him to do tons of driving.  That's not a proper plan in advance and trying to accommodate distance.  So - he should ask you to get together last minute as his "turn" -ask you to drive two hours to him in an evening when he calls you same afternoon?

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I'm not sure if I feel comfortable suggesting plans for tomorrow, I think the ball is in his court now.

Look -there's no reason you ever have to see him again and if you don't perfectly fine to decide not to suggest a plan -if that is your standard, stick to it and accept the downsides -the risk of giving him the impression you're not that into him.  

[rainbowsandroses]

4 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I'm not sure if I feel comfortable suggesting plans for tomorrow, I think the ball is in his court now.

If me, I'd do nothing for now.  You sent him a text saying you had fun, he responded, leave it there, again for now. 

If he's interested, he will reach out and ask you out. 

Just let whatever is meant to happen, happen.  No pushing. 😉

 

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, rainbowsandroses said:

If me, I'd do nothing for now.  You sent him a text saying you had fun, he responded, leave it there, again for now. 

If he's interested, he will reach out and ask you out. 

Just let whatever is meant to happen, happen.  No pushing. 😉

 

Yes - if he now wants to go on a date with her -which this lunch wasn't really planned as one, it seems -more like two colleagues meeting up for lunch - he might be the one to reach out since it was too burdensome for him to agree to her last minute suggestion.  I also think since they are not dating at this time and this wasn't a date if she is interested it would be kind of her to reach out and say "hey I know that last minute thing wasn't going to work with all the driving -how about we plan something where we meet in the middle [or I come to your area]."  

Either way is ok - there's no ball in anyone's court nor did he "reject" a true plan - I personally wouldn't take the position that "well I asked him out and he rejected the plan so it's on him."  And I am a person who is in favor of traditional dating where the man asks the woman out in advance and if not enthusiastically agrees to being asked out -(not this last minute thing -I mean a proper date).  The former is better IMO all around and if he now realizes he wants to date her he might reach out and if he doesn't I wouldn't assume there's any ball in his court.

[Wiseman2]

22 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I didn't suggest an alternative - I think it's his turn now to make plans tomorrow, 

Try not to cram too much into the weekend. Focus rather on if there's potential for seeing each other in the future.

[catfeeder]

14 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I didn't suggest an alternative - I think it's his turn now to make plans tomorrow, if he wants to see me again, since he rejected my evening plans.

This makes no sense.

 I live right outside of New York City. When people come to the city and ask to meet me, they are the travelers with an itinerary, and they tell me when and where is best for them.

I don’t know their plans for the next day—this is their trip, their agenda. If they say to me, we’ll be taking the Liberty Cruise tomorrow at 5, it would be great if you could get a ticket and join us, I’ll do that. Or, we’ll be free after the matinee and hope you might join us at x restaurant, I’ll do that. But I’d never be presumptuous enough to ask them how I might fit into their plans the next day, no matter how much I would love to see them again.

Be careful of over-correcting past mistakes. Most of us have felt burned by someone before, but that’s no reason to start burning ourselves!

[catfeeder]

Oh, and opting to feel butt hurt over someone not wanting to pull off an additional 2 or 4 hour drive after spending a great 5 HOURS with me would not even occur to me.

Not only is that standard ridiculous, there is a term called ‘rubbing raw’ that smart people tend to avoid. Too much, too soon is a thing. Even when something feels good for 5 hours, it can start to feel the opposite at 6 or 7.

If you can’t enjoy the buzz after a great time but can only lament the absence of one not taking a good thing too far, you will never enjoy dating no matter what the guy does. Your mind will seek (and always find) the one comment or gesture or lack of one of those to gnaw on just to keep yourself on edge and feeling lousy.

 I’m sorry to tell you, while that’s not against the law, it will never allow you happiness or comfort or peace. It’s like you sentencing yourself to a lifetime of misery no matter who does what.

 I’m in your corner and not trying to be harsh. I hope you will consider using a good counselor, coach, therapist or clergy to climb beyond a fatalistic mentality where you choose to hurt yourself before someone else can.

You deserve confidence and happiness.

[NighttimeNightmare]

1 hour ago, kim42 said:

I didn't suggest an alternative - I think it's his turn now to make plans tomorrow, if he wants to see me again, since he rejected my evening plans.

I think you’re playing a game that he isn’t privy to, nor does he know the rules to. you’re holding him to these weird rules that are in your head only, a game you’re basically playing with yourself while imagining he somehow is your opponent and going so far as to punish him for his inactions. 
 

if you want something, express it.  If you are not comfortable doing so, that’s ok too, but if the basis is, “I’m not going to do x because he didn’t do y,” it seems unfair and childish. 
 

relationships aren’t supposed to be about hoarding resources 

[rainbowsandroses]

50 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

If you want something, express it.  

Interesting comment coming from you don't you think? 😉

OK, clarifying that was a tease with a ring of truth to it given what's been posted on your thread. 😄

Anyway...

@kim42I do see where you're coming from.  You suggested meeting up again in the evening, he turned your suggestion down. 

His reasons for doing so were legit, not an excuse to not see you, however it makes sense (to me) that the next suggestion to meet up would come from him.

That's typically how dating goes at least in my experience.

That said, I'm confused about this "meet" with a former work colleague versus a "date" with a former work colleague.

Since you said there was flirting, touching and chemistry during this lunch meet/date, it would appear he went from being a 'former work colleague' to being a 'romantic prospect.' 

Would that be accurate?  

If so, then imo the "game," the "rules" however we wish to define change a bit. 

I dislike the word "game" so will replace with "dance." 

You stepped forward (the evening suggestion), he stepped back (turned it down) now HE steps forward (asks you out).

As I said, if ME, I'd do nothing and continue meeting other guys. 

If he reaches out and asks you out and you're interested, fabulous.  Go and have a great time!

If he doesn't reach out, that's okay too! 

Remain detached from the outcome and enjoy the journey wherever it takes you. 💛

 

 

[kim42]

Ok so a little update - we texted this morning a little, he replied to my messages very quickly and he said again that he had fun yesterday and said thanks for meeting up with me.

He said he'd love to see me today but he needs to help his dad with some works at his house.

So I'm a little disappointed, I thought we both liked each other and had a good connection after yesterday but probably it was just me, so I'll have to move on I guess. I mean if he really wanted to see me I think he would make time.

[MissCanuck]

1 hour ago, kim42 said:

I mean if he really wanted to see me I think he would make time.

Where are you getting these ideas from? The same friends who text nonstop with strangers they meet on dating apps? If so, you need to stop taking their advice or ideas about dating seriously. They don't really know what they're talking about. 

In any case, your expectations are not very reasonable. He is busy today and it would mean another 4 hours of driving to see you. Girl. That is a lot, espeically when he already did so yesterday. People have lives and things to do. It is a bit silly to expect him to drop what he is doing and take a big chunk of time out of his day when you two had not already planned it. 

Maybe he is interested, and the timing is off right now. Or maybe he is okay to let this fizzle. Either way, you need to check yourself and your expectations in such circumstances. 

 

[Batya33]

49 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

Where are you getting these ideas from? The same friends who text nonstop with strangers they meet on dating apps? If so, you need to stop taking their advice or ideas about dating seriously. They don't really know what they're talking about. 

In any case, your expectations are not very reasonable. He is busy today and it would mean another 4 hours of driving to see you. Girl. That is a lot, espeically when he already did so yesterday. People have lives and things to do. It is a bit silly to expect him to drop what he is doing and take a big chunk of time out of his day when you two had not already planned it. 

Maybe he is interested, and the timing is off right now. Or maybe he is okay to let this fizzle. Either way, you need to check yourself and your expectations in such circumstances. 

 

I couldn't agree more.  And I've been in his same situation -really wanting to see certain friends when we come to our hometown (2.5 hour plane flight -we grew up in a major city and stay in the city) for a couple of days each summer/winter and we also have family obligations plus we can't use up one of only a couple of days traveling to the burbs over an hour each way, etc.  Friends who didn't make plans in advance might see us last minute if we could fit it in /or they could join a larger group activity but we didn't have the luxury of blocking out large driving/commuting times to see one person especially last minute.  

As far as comparing this to dating -even if this were dating -your attitude is baffling.  I agree with how Catfeeder put it and Miss Canuck above.

[Kwothe28]

3 hours ago, kim42 said:

I mean if he really wanted to see me I think he would make time.

I mean I get the sentiment as I had somebody who told me excuses while she had time for other people. But he saw you for 5 hours yesterday and you expect him to spend 4 hours traveling to see you while he has other work today. Give him at least some credit before writing it down.

Can you see him some other time in near future? If you cant then its indeed something to ponder about about dating this man.

[rainbowsandroses]

3 hours ago, kim42 said:

He said he'd love to see me today but he needs to help his dad with some works at his house.

Did he suggest another time?  

I'm not getting why some folks think you have an "attitude," it's common knowledge when a man  is interested, he shows interest.  Typically this is done by asking her out. 

Here, you suggested getting together after your lunch meet/date and he's "busy." 

No alternative from him to get together some time in the future. 

What am I missing guys?  Why does Kim have an attitude for believing his interest is lukewarm, if any?

Because they had a 5 hour lunch meet?   That means nothing, he was in the moment and probably thinks she's cool.  

This is not.a business situation anymore, for Kim he is a romantic prospect and it doesn't sound like he's all that interested in that otherwise he would have suggested another time, say next week, and made a plan.  

Please explain what I'm missing, surely it must be something.

 

 

 

[Batya33]

Just now, rainbowsandroses said:

Did he suggest another time?  

I'm not getting why some folks think you have an "attitude," it's common knowledge when a man  is interested, he shows interest.  Typically this is done by asking her out. 

Here, you suggested getting together after your lunch meet/date and he's "busy." 

No alternative from him to get together some time in the future. 

What am I missing guys?  Why does Kim have an attitude for believing his interest is lukewarm, if any?

Because they had a 5 hour lunch meet?   That means nothing, he was in the moment and probably thinks she's cool.  

This is not.a business situation anymore, for Kim he is a romantic prospect and it doesn't sound like he's all that interested in that otherwise he would have suggested another time and made a plan. 

Please explain what I'm missing, surely it must be something.

 

 

 

They're not dating -they met for lunch.  She then offered a last minute afterthought plan involving him driving a great distance. She never offered Sunday because she wasn't sure she'd want to see him.  He might ask her out on a date at this point but right now it's whether they plan to hang out again.  Obviously he's busy today -that's last minute too.  I'd let him spend his time with his dad -who made advance plans with him and is a priority for him over someone he just met for lunch -as the dad should be -and see if he reaches out - since she offered some last minute thing I think she certainly can try to make a plan in advance and offer to travel to him since she thinks it was no biggie when she expected him to do even more driving again to see her right away.

I agree wholeheartedly with Catfeeder.

[rainbowsandroses]

I know he's busy today Batya, that's fine.  I wasn't talking about today. 

I'm talking about him expressing an interest in seeing her some time in the future since he's busy today. 

Is this not what men do when interested?  I'm now thoroughly confused. 

Obviously they're not "dating" they only had one lunch meet/date.

But Kim is romantically interested and would like to date him. There is absolutely zero indication from him that he wants to date her. 

Interested people act interested.

Thus far, he's not, not from what I can see.  I'm NOT talking about today.  Again, down the road since he's busy today. 

Hence her disappointment. 

No attitude, just disappointment

I would be too. 

Might he ask her out again?  Next week, the week after?

Who knows. He might. Or he might not. 

In the meantime Kim, forget about it and continue meeting and dating other guys.

That's what I would do.  Stay open to all possibilities even with this guy, you never know.

 

 

[MissCanuck]

26 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

What am I missing guys?  Why does Kim have an attitude for believing his interest is lukewarm, if any?

It's not about having an attitude for believing he is lukewarm. Maybe he is, maybe not.

It's about her unrealistic expectation that he would add another 4 hours of driving to see her today. I think it's unreasonable for her to assume that if he were interested, he would have done so. That's somewhat entitled and unfair of her. 

18 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I'm talking about him expressing an interest in seeing her some time in the future since he's busy today.

Who says he won't? OP didn't even mention this. She was referring to be disappointed that he wasn't able to meet her today. 

 

[dias]

55 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Is this not what men do when interested?

Is this not what women do when interested?

[rainbowsandroses]

43 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

Who says he won't? OP didn't even mention this. She was referring to be disappointed that he wasn't able to meet her today. 

Well, I asked her if he offered anorher day, since he's busy today (which again is understandable).

She has not responded, so we don't know but since she didn't mention anything about him offering an alternative day, I'm inclined to think he did not. 

I could be wrong but my sense is her disappointment comes from his overall vibe of not appearing romantically interested, NOT just because he's busy today.

My experience is when I suggest getting together and the man is busy, he offers an alternative day, when he's interested.

Sure, he may very well reach out in a week, a month, and ask her out.  But would a man highly interested in dating (which Kim herself is) risk waiting that long?   

I wouldn't think so, again my experience and my take on the situation.

That said, I DO agree her expectations are too high and I believe she said she realizes that too and working on lowering them to more realistic standards. 

 

 

 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

1 minute ago, dias said:

Is this not what women do when interested?

Yes absolutely which Kim did by suggesting the evening meet.

She may have even mentioned getting together today which prompted him saying he was busy with his dad. 

He did not offer an alternative day when he was free which suggests low, if any, romantical interest imho.

For Kim's sake, hope I'm wrong.

.

[kim42]

Ok I feel I need to clarify one thing - we don't live in the same country, and I'm in his city for the weekend. 

He can't ask me to hamg out next week because I won't be here anymore.

I don't know if I'm being that unrealistic, I honestly thought that since I'm in his city for only 2 days, he would make time to see me today (Sunday) too.

I understand that he needs 2 hours to get to the city, and I know we didn't make plans for Sunday and I understand he has his own life too.

I still can't help but feel a little disappointed that he didn't try to make time to see me today, especially because I felt we really clicked yesterday.

I'm confused because I thought he liked me yesterday, he is physically attracted to me and he asked me questions about dating and what kind of man I'm looking for. 

He also said several times he had fun yesterday and enjoyed talking to me. So I think that's why I thought we would see each other again today.

[rainbowsandroses]

11 minutes ago, kim42 said:

He can't ask me to hamg out next week because I won't be here anymore.

Kim, unless I read wrong, it's a two hour train ride between your countries, of course he can. 

But he didn't.

I'm confused about what you're wanting from this.

Were you hoping for just a quick fling for the weekend?

Or rather, are you interested in dating this man on a regular basis? 

If just a quick weekend fling, he may not be interested in that. 

Re dating you, he may feel the distance is too great, he doesn't want the hassle of a two hour train ride to/from.  Which is understandable.

Let it go...you had a fun date...leave it at that.

 

[Kwothe28]

1 hour ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I'm talking about him expressing an interest in seeing her some time in the future since he's busy today. 

Is this not what men do when interested?  I'm now thoroughly confused. 

I am not against her exercising her options as this was just a lunch date and they live in different countries so whole perspective of dating(if we dont count long distance) is far fetched. However I just dont agree that he doesnt like her because he didnt wanted to see her today. After he saw her for 5 hours yesterday. And when he has other obligations today. Just because he wouldnt leave everything just to see her again doesnt mean he doesnt like her. Its a twisted perspective of some people. That others need to be fully commited from the start to the point of leaving everything to see them. You rarely get that and even when you do that person probably has nothing else going on in their life so they can commit that much. This guy clearly does. And if she wants somebody who would commit himslef in that way, then yes, somebody like this and especially because long distance, is not an option for her.

[rainbowsandroses]

12 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

However I just dont agree that he doesnt like her because he didnt wanted to see her today.

I agree, once again I was not referring to today.  I thought I was pretty clear on that. 

You quoted my post @Kwothe28which is why I'm responding.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, MissCanuck said:

It's not about having an attitude for believing he is lukewarm. Maybe he is, maybe not.

It's about her unrealistic expectation that he would add another 4 hours of driving to see her today. I think it's unreasonable for her to assume that if he were interested, he would have done so. That's somewhat entitled and unfair of her. 

Who says he won't? OP didn't even mention this. She was referring to be disappointed that he wasn't able to meet her today. 

 

I agree with this.  Well said!