What’s next?

[Whirling D]

Wow… What a bizarre conversation I just had with the doctor lady.
 

It started with our usual evening, chat, and it was great… It was fun, engaged… But after about an hour, it then it took a very drastic turn downhill fast.

She asked me what my thought was about spending time with her at the beach house this coming weekend and next week for her vacation week. I was psyched that she brought the topic up, and it seemed like she wanted me to be there more than I had expected her to be.

My understanding, probably what I have even said on here, is that I knew I could be there over this weekend, but I would likely have to work for at least some of the days next week, but I was hopeful I might be able to get a couple of days off by rearranging things.

But then it occurred to me that I made a pretty terrible mistake, and that I had forgotten that I had promised to drive my kid to her theater camp each morning, and it completely went over my head that that would mess up my days next week that I may have been able to go up to the beach house.

She was pissed. As soon as I pointed out that I had made that error, she said something like “well, I’m upset by that, and it makes me think that I need to be with somebody that can prioritize spending time with me when I’m available”.  She didn’t say it angrily, she almost said it as if a switch turned off, and she was coming up with an Epiphany, a reality of sorts. It sounded like she was basically ending it. And when I inquired as to what she meant, that’s pretty much what she was indicating… That it was not acceptable that I wasn’t able to spend the time up there that was important to her, therefore, it was endangering us continuing.

That felt hugely manipulative and toxic to me. And for about the next hour, I was having a hard time focusing on anything else other than that one statement. It was triggering that I was almost feeling like I was being threatened, that if I didn’t spend the appropriate amount of time with her, that her and I would not be a good fit.  She was pretty clear with that. 

I was able to calm myself down a little bit, and try not to feel like I was being manipulated, and it’s unclear to me now whether it was manipulation, or she was just telling me what she was feeling, which was, she was frustrated that I had made this stupid mistake, and that I hadn’t prioritized what she was hoping was going to happen next week. 

After I clarified what I understood from her, she was able to admit, and I hope this was truthful, that she could now see that she wasn’t really clear exactly how much she actually told me that she wanted me to be there, and in her head, she thought I was going to try to work things out and be there a good chunk of the week. I always knew that wasn’t likely, but we never really clarified what each others expectations were. 

So, over the second hour of the conversation, we were able to come to some conclusions, but even at the end, her language was something like, “well at least you know that if you make mistakes like that again that it’s probably going to lead to this not working out“ or something like that. She didn’t use those exact words, but that’s what I was hearing.  Again, it almost sounded like a threat. To me that seems toxic. I don’t know how to move forward with that. 

So now, I have to figure out whether or not I’m over reacting, and maybe just triggered by thinking she was being manipulative, or whether she actually was being manipulative.

The evidence that points to her being manipulative… was that she would hold something like that over my head, even before I told her about the mistake I made, or maybe it was after I don’t remember. I almost got the sense that she was saying, “you are either going to be able to see me X amount of time, since you knew this was really important to me, and if you’re not going to be able to ship up, then you’re gonna have to ship out“. It almost parallels the hair conversation from how I interpreted it. I’m not sure I’m explaining it well. It’s hard for me to grasp but I heard. It didn’t feel pretty. Most of the time anyway

I just have to be sure that I am interpreting what she was saying correctly. I know she was frustrated and upset.

I almost wonder if she had had a few glasses of wine tonight, since tomorrow is her day off. There were times where I thought that her thinking process seemed a little stilted, but I can’t really say for sure. She may have just been tired.  I’m not sure whether my thinking was failing due to being upset and anxious at what I was hearing.

I don’t think I was at my best for the rest of that conversation, and I’m not sure that I probably made a very good impression after that. It seemed like I was mostly trying to dig my way out of a hole, although, eventually, she seemed to settle on the notion that she hadn’t really clarified how much she wanted me to be up at the beach house, and for how long, which is true. I had no way of knowing that she was hoping I’d be there the whole week. I expected that her family was going to be there and I couldn’t presume that she was going to want me there the whole week. But she said tonight she would rather be up there with someone (she didn’t specify me) rather than by herself. I had no way of knowing she felt that way. She comes across as being very independent, and wants her downtime, so I would have thought she might have wanted a few days up there by herself. I would have no idea cause we didn’t talk about it.

so it was really a classic misunderstanding. But, through much of our negotiation, I felt her finger pointing at me, as if she was blaming me for her discomfort, as a result of my mistake.  Through most of the conversation, she seemed irritated by the mistake. As I mentioned, at one point, she said that she thought that me that making that mistake made it clear to her that this kind of thing might be more likely than not to happen again… meaning she felt like she was in a tough space, and was feeling pitted up against what I need to do in the other half of my life, which is managing my kid.
 

I still have a hard time wrapping my head around whether I feel like I was being manipulated when she was saying that she wasn’t convinced that these things are not going to continue to happen, and prevent us from seeing each other, and that this would work.

At one point, toward the end of the conversation, she even stopped and said “so from what you’re saying, it sounds to me like we should probably just say this isn’t going to work“. I told her I never said that, and I don’t even think that, but she said, because of all the conversations we’ve had and how I jump to the conclusion of “well maybe this just isn’t going to work”, she saw that as me coming up with reasons why it wasn’t going to work. I don’t think what she was fully grasping is that I was saying those things based on  the reasoning she was giving me that she was having problems… Religion/hair/scheduling/house. The list seems to be getting longer.  
 

she would probably tell you that she didn’t think those things were a big deal breakers, but once again, she was saying that she felt I was pushing her to make a decision. Well, in some way, that’s probably true. If those things are problems for her, then, perhaps it’s better to figure them out sooner rather than later.

But then she turned her mood around after I said to her that I am no way was interested in calling it quits… then she suddenly was more positive about working out the problems rather than calling it quits.

So the conversation was somewhat confusing at times, because her thought process seem to be going from one direction to another. Mine can do that as well, but I thought I was pretty stable for most of the conversation, and I was pretty clear when I told her I was not happy about the part when she said that since I couldn’t make it up to the beach house that maybe she needed to be with someone that could prioritize that kind of time with her. I told her that felt like a really hard thing for me to hear, but I didn’t tell her that it felt like a threat, but that’s exactly what it felt like to me. am I not hearing that rationally? Did that not sound like a “if you can’t give me what I want I’m gonna have to just go find somebody who will“? 

Wow, I’ll probably have a rough night. I’m not feeling warm, fuzzy thoughts right now, that much I can tell you.

Are my dark feelings justified here?  I wonder if she was able to come to the understanding that it was just a communication issue, notwithstanding the mistake I made?  
 

I almost got the impression during the early part of the conversation that me making the mistake was not acceptable to her, and she almost kind of preached to me for a while about how making a mistake like this could have consequences, in terms of her wanting to continue. I don’t like being held to that kind of standard, I don’t think. We all make mistakes.

Anyway, I’m rambling and it’s getting late.  I am almost wondering if she’s going to think that I was too melodramatic and how I handled that conversation. I was not warm and fuzzy through a lot of it. But neither was she. She may wake up tomorrow and say she doesn’t want to deal with that kind of drama, who knows. Although, in some ways, I think she brought it on herself.  

Communication gaff, or manipulation? What do you think? 
 

 

[Wiseman2]

14 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

  . She may wake up tomorrow and say she doesn’t want to deal with that kind of drama, who knows. 

Sorry this happened. Sounds like a pretty bad argument. Unfortunately the discrepancies in your lifestyles is coming to a head. You both seem frustrated with it.  She seems disappointed and upset. She may not be accept your single parenthood and custody arrangements. Although it's unclear why you didn't know you had to drive your child that week. Are you still going up for the weekend?  So if you're already both saying maybe this won't work, it probably won't. But not because either of you is the bad guy but because there's just too many obstacles.

[Whirling D]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this happened. Sounds like a pretty bad argument. Unfortunately the discrepancies in your lifestyles is coming to a head. You both seem frustrated with it.  She seems disappointed and upset. She may not be accept your single parenthood and custody arrangements. Although it's unclear why you didn't know you had to drive your child that week. Are you still going up for the weekend?  So if you're already both saying maybe this won't work, it probably won't. But not because either of you is the bad guy but because there's just too many obstacles.

Wise, we left it with the understanding that I’d go up over the weekend and I would try to get out of taking my kid to camp on Monday and Tuesday. She was hinting at me trying to do the same for later in the week, but I don’t think I’m going to try to push for that.
 

I just agreed to take the kid to camp this week simply not connecting that I was going to try to go up there next week for a day or two. It just went over my head.

at One point she said something like it was frustrating to think that I wasn’t even thinking of her when I agreed to that.  It wasn’t on purpose at all. I just didn’t make that connection. Probably too much other stupid stuff going on in my brain.
 

So, I know it wasn’t that clear in the last posting, but it ended with her saying that she didn’t clarify when she wanted me to come up, which is seemingly true from my perspective… And that I would try to rearrange my schedule or favorably for next week.

I probably said some thing that didn’t go over well… I try to encourage her not to be hard on herself for not being clear, because she seems to be a little discouraged by that… And I told her that I will try hard not to point fingers if somebody makes a mistake… Which was my back door way of encouraging her not to point finger at me when I make a mistake

I definitely felt like she was pointing her finger at me as a result of my mistake, and it was pretty clear she wanted me to know it.  

that kind of behavior may be a dealbreaker for me. 

[Wiseman2]

7 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

Which was my back door way of ....

Manipulation, innuendos and more veiled threats really won't help an already bad misunderstanding. Maybe the dust will settle, but if having a hair trigger temper is causing issues, take a deep breath. It does seem like you're looking for ways to end it. 

[Capricorn3]

8 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Manipulation, innuendos and more veiled threats really won't help an already bad misunderstanding. Maybe the dust will settle, but if having a hair trigger temper is causing issues, take a deep breath. It does seem like you're looking for ways to end it. 

^ Agreed. I've had that feeling a long time ago.  As I've said before, the writing is on the wall (imo).

[catfeeder]

1 hour ago, Whirling D said:

Communication gaff, or manipulation? What do you think? 

Sounds like both. We discussed the manipulative aspect of this back when you told her maybe you're not a good fit if she didn't like something, and now it's no less manipulative coming from her.

Both of you are being saboteurs by leaping to that place on a knee jerk. She backpedaled it just as you did, but now you can grasp how lousy it feels and how destructive it is.

If you intend to go forward with her, I'd discuss some ground rules about how each of you will handle inevitable disappointments with one another. If you're both committed to working through bumps in the road that will require actual coping skills, then implied threats of dumping the relationship need to be off the table.

This doesn't make it against the law for either of you to break up, but you're each either committed to putting more thought into such a decision than reaching for it as a default, or you're not. I'd establish that quickly.

[MissCanuck]

I think she is looking for the exit hatch out of this relationship, she manufactured one, and almost pulled the plug - but lost the courage to do so at the last minute. 

However, I think that unfortunately, she is probably going to end it altogether sometime soon. The tension has been mounting and she doesn't seem as into this anymore. She is looking for reasons to justify (to herself) calling it quits. 

[Sindy_0311]

The “it won’t work” sentence if often used when a couple has an argument. I wouldn’t necessarily give it a manipulative intention. You took this sentence out of a long discussion i guess, and it’s difficult to say whether she said it in a manipulative way without knowing exactly what the exchange was like or what you have said prior to this… I presume she was disappointed, she might already have made her plans in her head for next week, so she was disappointed… I would let her some time and maybe she will come back more peaceful… I start to wonder whether she also noticed a shift in your behavior/ communication, that would be one reason why she got upset… who knows… 

[Wiseman2]

51 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

 that kind of behavior may be a dealbreaker for me. 

That's true. Your hatred of her seems to have grown exponentially since the hair remark. It's doubtful you'll ever recover from that alone, now adding this to the list of her "toxicity". You don't really seem compatible.

[Sindy_0311]

6 hours ago, Type O Negative said:

Wow. Dead cool!

I agree. In fact I don’t see anything wrong with your apparence. You just look like a cool 60 years guy. 
You look like an artist, and your long hair suits you very well. I’ve been working with many artists for 20 years, and I also know a lot of musicians, they have the exact same style. I don’t understand why you are being so critical about yourself. 
Did you put these photos on your dating app profile? If not, I suggest you do😉

[LootieTootie]

Hmm I don't think you made a mistake. She never actually invited you until tonight and you simply reminded her that you still have daddy's duties. Which is kind of expected when you date a single parent who has full custody of a child.

And this isn't the first time she mentioned to you about your daughter being some sort of distraction. I don't recall the situation but she talked to you about it and it was pretty much lecturing you about your kid. I wished the thread was still around so I can copy that post but its been deleted - boo!

Any way, I recalled just being upset reading it because even if you had interpreted her comments to you about parenting and your kid far worse than what she had actually said, it didnt matter because she already planted a seed in your head that your kid could be a problem. Which to me was insensitive.

I think you both are alike in many ways and that might actually be your breaker or maker. Maybe you both need to just sleep it off and let the dust settle. I mean the fact that you both haven't called it quits is a miracle enough so put your heads together and talk about how to stop with the threats and the "innuendos". Clearly you two are seasoned conflict managers (you with all your jobs and her as a dr) and you both just need to work together to find a common ground and not be rigid old timers.

Good Luck! 

 

[LootieTootie]

Oh and all this psycho-analysis you do with every phone call and text, I don't think it helps your anxieties.

Maybe less psycho-analyzing & less psycho-babbling and just going with the flow?

[KittenLittle]

I have been reading this thread and want to jump in. I am 63 so not so far away in age. By the way, I thought your picture was nice and many ladies do like guys who can play the guitar.

It seems you both are afraid to be vulnerable and simply ask for what you want, straight up and with no manipulation.  And with kindness and respect. As another reader said, stop the threats to the relationship. Doing that takes a lot of courage, I know.  But it's the only way the relationship will survive. 

As my former father-in-law would recommend, everyone comes to their relationship like a half-empty bucket. Your job is to find the needs your partner has, perhaps caused by their wounds from childhood or past relationships.  Then fill their bucket the best you can. They can do the same for you. This helps both partners heal and have a stronger bond.

Good luck to you and may jump in more later.

[Batya33]

6 hours ago, Sindy_0311 said:

I agree. In fact I don’t see anything wrong with your apparence. You just look like a cool 60 years guy. 
You look like an artist, and your long hair suits you very well. I’ve been working with many artists for 20 years, and I also know a lot of musicians, they have the exact same style. I don’t understand why you are being so critical about yourself. 
Did you put these photos on your dating app profile? If not, I suggest you do😉

I agree and I say this knowing your appearance and style would not have been my type to date  and you look like a one of the cool artists I knew/know am friendly with and was happy to work with for many years when I had the privilege of doing so. My older sister dated someone with that look and style for several years when she was a teenager/early 20s- she was a singer including I think in his band for awhile.  

[Batya33]

I have both thoughts. I don't think it's a good look that you forgot about taking your daughter to camp next week- this week -Mon-Thurs - I am solo parenting while my husband is out of town.  Therefore I have to take him to camp and also pick him up each day.  I know I get frazzled about all the extra Things when solo parenting so I have a daily reminder in my phone lest I forget to pick him up (most of the time I am the Dropper Offer so I don't forget and I wake up early anyway). 

I am conscientious and know I need a backup reminder in my phone.  I also sometimes leave something on the door handle -a bag, an umbrella -to remind me of an errand/picking him up.

My husband only forgot once many years ago and I had to scramble for back up a day in advance as I had to work that day- I was not pleased and it feels like "I don't have the privilege of forgetting -why do you?" But I let it go and focused on doing damage control for pickup.

I also don't want to spend your time/$ with you trying to get someone else to take your daughter.  I get it -it's hard.

Then this - she was completely out of bounds.  This is your parenting duties -it's extremely typical that a parent has to be chauffer particularly before the teenager can drive and/or just because. 

And this is theater camp someone paid for I assume -hopefully she loves it (jealous -wish my son would do this -he's a natural) - and what the heck are you supposed to do - I'm sure you try to pick your times to ask your ex wife to pick up the slack because you forgot and Dr. L. should totally get that - I mean she has times she has to ask colleagues to fill in because she double booked etc right?? Same deal and it's your daughter and hopefully the drive there is also bonding/fun time.  

It's not because she's child-free -it's because she wants this single parenting thing to poof go away especially if she happens to have time off from her busy schedule.  With parenting it's often like this - you say you work part time, etc so you have "more time" - but -parenting is often hugely inconvenient and unpredictable -like what if  you were at the beach house and your daughter -heaven forbid- pun intended -literally broke a leg and your ex wasn't available to go get her so the camp calls you -what -you're supposed to outsource rushing to camp /taking her to the doctor??? Crap happens and Dr. L should know this cause she's a Dr.  I'm very unhappy with her reaction and again I would't chalk it up to Not A Parent/Doesn't Get it. 

She does just wants you at her beck and call. (ugh another pun about making waves is coming but I'll leave it there).

Yes you made a mistake.  Yes she acted like a witch about it.  

[MrMan1983]

26 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Yes you made a mistake.  Yes she acted like a witch about it.

Could be wrong but feels like she was already slightly worked up about something else to overreact like that, she brought up his previous “I’m not sure if this will work” moments whilst doing the same back so turns out it did understandably play on her mind since. Unfortunately though a lot of passive aggressive stuff going on here, hopefully they can talk it out properly and clear the air. 

[Whirling D]

8 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I have both thoughts. I don't think it's a good look that you forgot about taking your daughter to camp next week- this week -Mon-Thurs - I am solo parenting while my husband is out of town.  Therefore I have to take him to camp and also pick him up each day.  I know I get frazzled about all the extra Things when solo parenting so I have a daily reminder in my phone lest I forget to pick him up (most of the time I am the Dropper Offer so I don't forget and I wake up early anyway). 

I am conscientious and know I need a backup reminder in my phone.  I also sometimes leave something on the door handle -a bag, an umbrella -to remind me of an errand/picking him up.

My husband only forgot once many years ago and I had to scramble for back up a day in advance as I had to work that day- I was not pleased and it feels like "I don't have the privilege of forgetting -why do you?" But I let it go and focused on doing damage control for pickup.

I also don't want to spend your time/$ with you trying to get someone else to take your daughter.  I get it -it's hard.

Then this - she was completely out of bounds.  This is your parenting duties -it's extremely typical that a parent has to be chauffer particularly before the teenager can drive and/or just because. 

And this is theater camp someone paid for I assume -hopefully she loves it (jealous -wish my son would do this -he's a natural) - and what the heck are you supposed to do - I'm sure you try to pick your times to ask your ex wife to pick up the slack because you forgot and Dr. L. should totally get that - I mean she has times she has to ask colleagues to fill in because she double booked etc right?? Same deal and it's your daughter and hopefully the drive there is also bonding/fun time.  

It's not because she's child-free -it's because she wants this single parenting thing to poof go away especially if she happens to have time off from her busy schedule.  With parenting it's often like this - you say you work part time, etc so you have "more time" - but -parenting is often hugely inconvenient and unpredictable -like what if  you were at the beach house and your daughter -heaven forbid- pun intended -literally broke a leg and your ex wasn't available to go get her so the camp calls you -what -you're supposed to outsource rushing to camp /taking her to the doctor??? Crap happens and Dr. L should know this cause she's a Dr.  I'm very unhappy with her reaction and again I would't chalk it up to Not A Parent/Doesn't Get it. 

She does just wants you at her beck and call. (ugh another pun about making waves is coming but I'll leave it there).

Yes you made a mistake.  Yes she acted like a witch about it.  

Thank you, bat.

It’s morning now, and I’m still not sure how I feel about it. It was not a good conversation, nor a good look for her. But I am also embarrassed.
 

First things first. I know a lot of you on here. I think that this is a little bit of a turnaround and almost the same as me, saying what I said to her last weekend, “maybe we’re not a good fit“. But there is a difference, however, subtle. Last weekend I was suggesting to her that maybe it was her that was thinking we were not the right fit. Not me. I never said that. I would have continued to negotiate, which I did, but I was saying to her last weekend “doctor lady, there seems to be growing list of things that you’re not sure about… Which makes me wonder if it’s time for you to think whether I am the right fit for you and whether I’ll fit into your life”. I think that’s pretty close to what I said. I think that’s different, because I’m putting the onus on her, which I also did last night.  
 

I said to her, rather awkwardly, because I felt awkward the whole conversation, given that I felt like I was being used for target practice, whether that’s true or not, that’s kind of how I felt. At least for the first half of the conversation. The second half, I was so frazzled, it It was hard to focus well. I said something like… “Doctor lady… I would be up here in a heartbeat at almost any point, but I’ve been trying to allow you to steer that ship, because I know you are really busy and you said that you don’t really like spending time on weeknights, or your day off on Wednesdays because you have a lot going on and you need your sleep.  I’ve been trying to honor that, but the truth is, I would come up here any of the nights I have off and even if I didn’t get here till 8 PM, I would very much just enjoy hanging for a few minutes and then going to sleep. I would do that for you, so the notion that you and I don’t have that much time together, it’s really in your court now, because I would be up here a lot more than I actually am“.  I think she was able to hear that.
 

What I am sensing fairly clearly from last night is that she needs to be convinced that something is true. That likely comes from feeling gaslighted a lot from her boyfriends, if that’s actually what happened. I can only go on her stories.

She seems to need to be convinced that something is true… Like she was very upset that I couldn’t get up there during the week, although it was never really clear to me, that she wanted me there, even though it seemed clear to her that she was asking me to do that. That’s not the way I understood it. So I had to explain that to her until she felt convinced that what I was saying was true. Then I had to convince her that I could be up there a lot more than I was. I probably could’ve had the conversation and convinced her that she could actually come down here more than she has, if she wanted to spend time together, but that seemed kind of coercive.

I know I will think of more examples from the conversation that would exemplify this, but it still seems like she comes to these drastic conclusions, perhaps, like I might, and then I have to bring her down from the ledge. I almost felt inauthentic trying to talk her down from the ledge last night, because her determination, at least early on in the talk, was to convince herself or me that her and I weren’t going to work out for about the first minute and a half, that’s pretty much what she was saying. 
 

Here’s the context, but I probably already said this… Right after I told her that I was not likely going to easily be able to get up there during the week for various reasons she got very quiet, even though we had been so jovial for the hour prior… And I asked her “you look like you are upset”, although it was really more just stunned that she looked… “Yes, I am upset…”. Pause… “I think I need to be with someone who can devote more time to me and prioritize seeing me when I have time off“ something like that. I paused for quite a long time and then said something like, “so why am I hearing what I think I’m hearing? Care to elaborate on what you just said?“ “I guess I’m saying this is just not working out you knew this was important to me, and yet here we are you telling me you don’t have the time off, even though I’ve been asking you about this for weeks“.  And it took off from there. 
 

It felt terrible for me to feel like I was having to defend myself for about the next hour, and when we talked about the situation of me, taking my kid to camp each morning, I get the impression that she, like the borderline lady, felt I was somewhat manipulated into doing that.  I had just previously told her a conundrum with my kids, mom where her mom was clearly trying to manipulate me into changing my schedule to benefit her mom, but disguising it as being what’s best for the kid… More on that another time, if necessary…

I felt I had to convince the doctor lady that me taking the kid to camp every day during the summer was fairly routine, and I’ve been doing it for years… I often take her in in the mornings, provided something doesn’t prevent that, and her mom picks her up in the afternoon, and sometimes I do that as well, like yesterday. I didn’t feel coerced to say yes, it was about 10 days that her mother asked me, and I just routinely said “yeah, I can get her there”.  It just happened so quickly, and I wasn’t thinking much about it, obviously.  It had nothing to do with me not prioritizing the doctor lady, I don’t think, it was just a completeOversight… I tried to explain that, and even though the doctor lady said, she is very forgetful, I don’t think she was taking too highly to me forgetting that. I think she made me feel a little crappy about it, rather than understanding and forgiving.
 

That’s why, when it seemed like she was being a little hard on herself later for not being clear, and she theater said she was trying to own her part in the conversation gap, I was trying to tell her that I would never make her feel badly when she makes mistakes and I don’t want her to ever feel that I would be pointing my finger at her in anger if she does something by mistake… Part of me, believe that’s true, but part of me was kind of going… Hint, hint… If you know what I mean. Because I did feel she was being highly critical that I forgot to consider this week before I made that declaration. I can’t beat myself up over it. It’s already happened. I can’t change the past.

I just have to figure out what to do Going forward. Our conversation before that was just so much like the ones from before… Flirty, fun, lots of smiles, lots of comparing thoughts…

I think I’m feeling a little less critical of her response this morning, although still worried that the bottom is going to fall out. I said that to her last night… That was all of these “problems“ and her telling me that maybe it wasn’t going to work out, but I feel like I’m going to be going forward on eggshells, and that doesn’t work well for me. 
 

Eggshells. That seems to be how I’m going to feel all day, and until things start to stabilize a bit with her. If they ever do. Once again, I won’t be surprised if I talk to her later today and she starts talking darkly again.

Ironically, at the tail end of our call, during the sign off, she was starting to get kind of lovey-dovey, which I haven’t seen for a while… Like saying, she wanted to give me a big hug, the smile had returned to her face, she felt she was glad that we had to talk, and that it was productive… Even though inside, I was feeling completely opposite… And she asked me if we were going to be able to talk before my band practice tonight, and I told her when I could call her… All the while, I’m feeling kind of beat up inside, and feel like I was kind of a manipulated with her whole demeanor in the conversation… Although, I was trying to take a step back and acknowledge that she was trying to own her part in it, and trying to come up with a solution that was good for both of us, despite the continuous feelings that she was still kind of pointing the finger at me and shaking… “Bad dog“. I’ve heard that all my life, and I won’t be able to hear it much longer.  
 

what are together, my heart is very sore this morning, and I don’t really know how to let that conversation go. I tend to think I’m triggered and overreacting and emotionally dysregulating. Would that be a fair statement?

[Whirling D]

1 minute ago, MrMan1983 said:

Could be wrong but feels like she was already slightly worked up about something else to overreact like that, she brought up his previous “I’m not sure if this will work” moments whilst doing the same back so turns out it did understandably play on her mind since. Unfortunately though a lot of passive aggressive stuff going on here, hopefully they can talk it out properly and clear the air. 

I hope so… Other than her determination to make me feel like sh*& for making that mistake, I could tell she was trying hard to figure out a way to find a middle ground. Kind of. It felt like I had to kind of coerce her to do that, as if what she felt was completely rational to her, and understandably that would be true, and I get the feeling she thought I was trying to con her into thinking otherwise. Maybe that’s true also, I can’t yet say.

as mentioned in the last post, she seemed to want to let it go and get a bit lovey-dovey, right at the end, while I sat there, almost in a daze, clearly having a hard time functioning… That probably wasn’t a good look for me. I felt like I was conveying to her that I can be an emotional wreck. welcome to my reality.  I could hardly get a coherent sentence out the whole conversation. That’s also not a good luck. I think she probably could tell that *** had me up against the ropes.

[Batya33]

Why isn't it just a basic situation of incompatibility? I stopped dating someone after his ex gf gave birth to their daughter.  I realized then with his new schedule and his sleeping over there -to help - it wasn't a good fit for me -we'd been dating 3 months.  No big blowout or overthinking.

[Wiseman2]

If you know you do this summer camp thing every year and you knew she told you a while back she was off and hoping to spend some time together. Why wasn't this clarified a while ago?

It's not as if she thought you were staying the whole week, just a day here and there when you have free.

Why did it devolve into the dig about she doesn't have time on weeknights, when you know very well she means work nights because she works like a dog, has an hour commute and you live over an hour apart?

And after all this you kiss and make up anyway?

 

[Whirling D]

21 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

If you know you do this summer camp thing every year and you knew she told you a while back she was off and hoping to spend some time together? Why wasn't this clarified a while ago? Why did it devolve into the dig about she doesn't have time on weeknights?

For me, I was hearing that she was going up there one way or the other.  I understood that family members would be there, etc. now she says family members aren’t going, and she will be by herself. I think that’s what she’s  most pissed about

It wasn’t at all clear to me that she was expecting me to go during the week, but hoping I could.  I believe my response to those several queries was, “let me see what I can do.  I suspect I’ll be able to get up there at some point.”  I don’t remember seeing anything more definitive.
 
it may have been 10 days ago it came up last… probably less than that when I agreed to do drop off.  
 
Just a mess.

now I don’t know what to do.  I almost want to text her to tell her I’m sorry I botched things… but mostly to feel less anxious.  
 

I kind of don’t know what to think. Bat says this may just be a matter of incompatibility. Others say that it us both self-destructing, which I think may be more close to the case.  I think we are both struggling with what it takes to make a relationship work… maybe just this relationship.  I think I may have more invested in it than she does. Particularly if she’s so clearly he’s going to throw threats like that around to end things when it gets tough. I don’t think I would ever do that. I told her I was committed to making it work.  But For how long?

to see how she came apart when she thought that she was going to have to spend time at her beach house alone during her week off, and that I might not be able to join her, was very annoying to her… And she told me that I should’ve done a better job organizing this, since I’ve known about it for about six weeks, which may be true.

on the other hand, I said to her that it’s no different than with her job, which needs eight weeks advance notice to take time off… I told her there’s no doubt that she would be going away with us this summer on our vacation in August, but it’s too soon for her to get the time off… I don’t really see those situations as been hugely different. They both involve responsibilities that would prevent us from being together, at least in the short run. I continue to mention that once things get rolling, that her and I could make sufficient plans with enough advance notice to prevent this kind of stuff from happening.  She seemed to respond positively when I said that.

I just have this feeling that I’m gonna be constantly be feeling condescended upon or badgered by this lady if something doesn’t go the way she thinks it should. She has a pretty strong sense of entitlement in that regard, as if it was expected that I was going to be able to do what she wanted or needed. Almost doesn’t matter what my needs were in those moments.

once things settled down at the end, she seemed to be putting a little bit more care into what I needed, but by that time, I was already a basket case.

I don’t know how many more times I can feel like a basket case before I have to make a decision that might be for my own good.

that being said… When I see this lady, she has so many nice things going on, and for the most part, there should be very few reasons that I wouldn’t want to continue getting to know her. Other than when things go wrong like this, she makes me feel like crap. I don’t know if that’s really a dealbreaker or not, although at times I wonder if it should be… that this maybe as much of a me problem as it is a her problem. I may just be taking this all out of context and making way bigger of a deal of what she said to me last night than maybe I should be.

but then again, when somebody pretty much outrightly tells you with a straight face that they don’t think it’s going to work out, that leaves me a pretty strong reason to be concerned. It’s now hard for me to truly understand whether she meant that, or she was saying it to be passive aggressive.  It’s now hard for me to truly understand whether she meant that, or she was saying it to be passive aggressive. I tend to think the latter.

lastly for this post, somewhere around 2/3 of the way through that conversation, I stopped and said something like, “so, what do you think, after all this, does it feel like we will be able to move forward?”  She couldn’t really answer it. She didn’t know. I don’t know if it had anything to do with the way I responded to the conversations in the past weekends or not.

although I am repeating myself, I think she was hearing those conversations last week differently than I was expecting them to be heard. Pretty much said she thought I was threatening to break up last week, but that’s not what I was saying.

I think she was hearing… “from what you are telling me, it almost feels like we are not going to work out“. But that’s not what I was saying. I was saying, “from what I am hearing maybe you have to decide whether you believe that we can work out“. I’m not sure the exact wording I used, but there is a distinct difference between those two statements.

 

[Whirling D]

39 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

If you know you do this summer camp thing every year and you knew she told you a while back she was off and hoping to spend some time together? Why wasn't this clarified a while ago? Why did it devolve into the dig about she doesn't have time on weeknights?

Because she was basically telling me that she didn’t think it was going to work because I couldn’t commit the time that was needed to make her happy.

well, I countered that by telling her that I could be up there a lot more than I probably am, but it was really up to her to make room in her life to make that happen… Mostly on the days that I have free. She understood when I said that.  
 

I also asked her about her other boyfriends, and if they were able to have an easier time adjusting to scheduling… She didn’t answer, but I know that she previously said with her last boyfriend of three years, she only saw him once every other weekend, because he was a pilot and never in town.

so, it’s not like she is not used to having to wait to see the guys she’s dating. In some ways, this situation sounds loads better than that one.

[Wiseman2]

30 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

   I think she was hearing… “

Have you figured out a plan? Why not focus on that rather than talk at her as if you're her psychoanalyst?

[bluecastle]

12 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

I kind of don’t know what to think. Bat says this may just be a matter of incompatibility. Others say that it us both self-destructing, which I think may be more close to the case.

It's splitting hairs to call these two different things.

Sign of incompatibility? Two people who, when pressed together, start self-destructing and self-sabotaging. I know the latter stuff opens up a wormhole into psychological theorizing, ancient wounds and trauma, and so forth, and that you find a certain comfort in that, a path through the fog that leads to a light at the end of tunnel. 

But everyone comes into every relationship with that stuff: sometimes nearly folded in a lapel pocket, sometimes bursting the seams of suitcases. It's not that mysterious, in short. So a big sign of compatibility is that the baggage doesn't catch on fire too quickly or burn to hot when it does. 

Birds-eye view of this recent event: You two trigger each other way too hard to actually connect and communicate. 

[Batya33]

I think it’s part incompatibility on a practical level but also - on top of that - it’s also on a temperament level. Because stuff like you forgot you had to drive your minor child to theater camp that triggers this maelstrom - I mean that’s not just incompatibility in schedules. It’s also deeper incompatibility in temperament. But also I don’t know if this was more like stuff building up and last straw scenario cause I’m not there (she invited me to the beach house but I forgot my son has appointments next week lol so I can’t see her in action ….)  

This stuff happens whether people are parents or not and do the two people play nicely in the sandbox??? No pun intended re beach

  I’m an old married lady and less than one hour ago I edited an email to my husband before sending  first unedited version vented about what a royal mess it was getting our cranky teenager to camp today  his email to me shared how he had a nice dinner after a hard day of manual labor - with his college friend then brought leftovers to my mom who he’s staying with this week   I edited it to three words  Great! Thanks! Same!  
 

Why ? Because I know how hard he is having it working on his damaged family home in this heat - and emotionally - and the way I’m being supportive is by holding down the fort here  so if I vent it defeats the purpose   My sense is Dr L would simply click send and be done with it