Twin Troubles

[VM22911]

9 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

but it's true that the brother co-owns the house and  could ask you to move out at any time. 

 

It's true but I don't see that ever happening or my partner letting it happen.

I spoke to him about this all last night. 

He said his plan is to go back to where we were once my course is over. And save some money, which I agree with as my course fees alone are upwards of $22,000 and I wasn't able to get a loan. So I could also do with saving some money as we are currently living in the most expensive city in the country.

I then asked for how long and he would not give me a straight answer. Simply said that its unlikely that it'll be as much as say 5 years, which was a number I just threw out.

He says he's tied to a mortgage and can't just leave and with the cost of living crisis we have no idea what the market will be like and he may leave his job for another one because he could be making even more money. So he didn't want to make any solid plans or give a solid time line.

He kept asserting the plan is that I finish this course and then we'll see.

He also quickly shut down me questioning his commitment levels as he has up and moved here, which he repeated over and over. He does have a point there

[Batya33]

If you knew he’d never commit to a specific time in which he’d be ready to commit to you long term how long would you stay ?

[VM22911]

1 minute ago, Batya33 said:

If you knew he’d never commit to a specific time in which he’d be ready to commit to you long term how long would you stay ?

I don't think I could go back to that house for much longer than 2 years

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, VM22911 said:

I don't think I could go back to that house for much longer than 2 years

Do you get the sense that he is going to act on his words -that he will be committed to you in all the ways you want in less than 5 years?

[smackie9]

On 4/10/2023 at 6:42 AM, VM22911 said:

I have mentioned couples therapy before but he is quite resistant to it for a few reasons

Not couples counselling but HIM going to counselling for this unhealthy attachment he has with his brother. I'm guessing he sees no issue so why bother.

You are at an impasse...either you accept it or leave him.

[MissCanuck]

2 hours ago, smackie9 said:

You are at an impasse...either you accept it or leave him.

I agree. 

He is very unlikely to change, OP. He is content being married to his twin, for lack of a better term. He doesn't want it another way. It is hard to leave, I know, but you are likely to find yourself in exactly the same position 5 years from now. 

[boltnrun]

Does he make you feel you "owe" him because he agreed to move with you?

Is your decision to stay in this relationship contingent on him "changing"?

Do you fear losing him? If so, do you fear losing him the way he is now or potential for the situation changing sometime in the future? In other words, do you fear losing the present him or the potential future him?

[smackie9]

TBH I don't think either of them can think about anything outside their relationship. They are so locked in and can't imagine it ever being any different. Obviously if the conversation ever comes up about how they could change/grow up, be independent of each other would have him freaking out like a security blanket ripped away. And that's when you point it out how they will never grow and go forward with their lives as individuals.

I grew up knowing a set of twins on my street. Same thing they did everything together well into adulthood.  They didn't have BFs, worked the same job, lived together. That was years ago so I really don't know what ever happened to them.

[TheCrow]

6 hours ago, smackie9 said:

Not couples counselling but HIM going to counselling for this unhealthy attachment he has with his brother. I'm guessing he sees no issue so why bother.

You are at an impasse...either you accept it or leave him.

I'm an identical twin. Unhealthy attachment?? We're one being divided into two by nature. Yeah sure, I can therapy myself out of not being able to exist without my twin..

 

Trust me, don't even try to understand this unless you are an (identical) twin.

[smackie9]

8 minutes ago, TheCrow said:

I'm an identical twin. Unhealthy attachment?? We're one being divided into two by nature. Yeah sure, I can therapy myself out of not being able to exist without my twin..

 

Trust me, don't even try to understand this unless you are an (identical) twin.

Why so dramatic? I never said "live without" or him to permanently ditch his brother for her. Read through the thread a bit better instead of wangling your finger at me.

[Tinydance]

23 minutes ago, TheCrow said:

I'm an identical twin. Unhealthy attachment?? We're one being divided into two by nature. Yeah sure, I can therapy myself out of not being able to exist without my twin..

 

Trust me, don't even try to understand this unless you are an (identical) twin.

Actually the unhealthy attachment he has to his twin is even to the point that even if they were actual partners, it's not exactly normal. I'm not trying to be weird and suggest incest or something but it literally does sound like they're joined like Siamese twins in everything. Where one brother goes, the other goes.

Co-dependency can exist between any kinds of people  (e.g. partners, parent and child, friends, etc.) Even between partners co-dependency isn't good. There's a big difference between being close to someone and being co-dependenent and clingy.

Also the boyfriend can't just have his cake and eat it too. If he wants to live with his brother and do every single thing only with his brother, then he shouldn't be in a relationship. He actually has a partner but he disregards her opinions, needs and wants. He always only values what his brother wants and thinks. If he wants to live his life that way then he has to understand, he can't have a relationship. There is just no space in his life for anybody else. He actually expects a partner to be not a partner, but just a third wheel to him and his brother. Who is going to be OK this? My guess is pretty much nobody.

 

[Tinydance]

11 hours ago, VM22911 said:

It's true but I don't see that ever happening or my partner letting it happen.

I spoke to him about this all last night. 

He said his plan is to go back to where we were once my course is over. And save some money, which I agree with as my course fees alone are upwards of $22,000 and I wasn't able to get a loan. So I could also do with saving some money as we are currently living in the most expensive city in the country.

I then asked for how long and he would not give me a straight answer. Simply said that its unlikely that it'll be as much as say 5 years, which was a number I just threw out.

He says he's tied to a mortgage and can't just leave and with the cost of living crisis we have no idea what the market will be like and he may leave his job for another one because he could be making even more money. So he didn't want to make any solid plans or give a solid time line.

He kept asserting the plan is that I finish this course and then we'll see.

He also quickly shut down me questioning his commitment levels as he has up and moved here, which he repeated over and over. He does have a point there

If you were to ask my opinion, you either really need to put your foot down really hard now, or you should break up with your boyfriend. You've been together for four years now and he's 29. If he actually sees a future with you then why does he just keep making excuses why he can't have that future?

His argument about money doesn't really make sense. Yes he's paying off the mortgage. But what people who have a mortgage often do is they actually get a tenant into that place who pays them rent. So that pays off their mortgage. A few of my friends actually do this. He could get a tenant to move in with his brother and be paying that money to him. Also he says he's going to get an even higher paying job so why is money a problem? When you really think about it he doesn't actually even have reasons why he needs to keep living with his brother.

I think when you finish your course, you should apply for a job in the study field. Once you have a job you move out. Your boyfriend can come or not but YOU move. You are so unhappy, why are you just doing everything he wants? It's absolutely reasonable to want to live with your partner alone, nothing wrong with it. Especially as the brother gives you no space or privacy. If he lived his own separate life that would be different. But he doesn't.

 

[TheCrow]

14 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Actually the unhealthy attachment he has to his twin is even to the point that even if they were actual partners, it's not exactly normal. I'm not trying to be weird and suggest incest or something but it literally does sound like they're joined like Siamese twins in everything. Where one brother goes, the other goes.

Co-dependency can exist between any kinds of people  (e.g. partners, parent and child, friends, etc.) Even between partners co-dependency isn't good. There's a big difference between being close to someone and being co-dependenent and clingy.

Also the boyfriend can't just have his cake and eat it too. If he wants to live with his brother and do every single thing only with his brother, then he shouldn't be in a relationship. He actually has a partner but he disregards her opinions, needs and wants. He always only values what his brother wants and thinks. If he wants to live his life that way then he has to understand, he can't have a relationship. There is just no space in his life for anybody else. He actually expects a partner to be not a partner, but just a third wheel to him and his brother. Who is going to be OK this? My guess is pretty much nobody.

 

No-one gets it and no-one ever will, won't bother explaining what it's like, being a twin.

OP- not giving you any useful advice cause of the whole twin thing, sorry. .

[Tinydance]

2 minutes ago, TheCrow said:

No-one gets it and no-one ever will, won't bother explaining what it's like, being a twin.

OP- not giving you any useful advice cause of the whole twin thing, sorry. .

So you are just another super co-dependent twin? Is that why you don't get it?

[Batya33]

I'm a little intrigued by twins (meaning I like novels that include twins, movies involving twins etc) and to be honest I never really figured on the attachment being different for identical or fraternal (my ex bf was a fraternal twin with sister but they also had two older sibs not twins) - but that makes sense. My ex bf and his sister were very close -but I didn't find it "twin-like close" if that makes sense nor was it an unhealthy attachment.  I thought it was very sweet actually.  

 

[Tinydance]

I know two women who are identical twins. They did use to do everything together and even dress the same, especially when they were younger. They're in their 30's now and they are both married and have kids and live separately. They do catch up but they live separate lives. I don't think that being close to someone means you literally need to live with them and do every single thing with them.

For example, I'm very close to my mother. I talk to her regularly and catch up maybe once a week. But I moved out 15 years ago and I don't live with her or do every single thing I do with her. I'm not a twin but the way I see it, if you want to have a partner you don't just make that partner a third wheel. In fact that partner basically should be more or less that number one person in your life. Especially if you agreed that you both want to settle down. Then you should actually be looking at your partner as your future husband or wife.

[MissCanuck]

6 hours ago, TheCrow said:

I'm an identical twin. Unhealthy attachment?? We're one being divided into two by nature. Yeah sure, I can therapy myself out of not being able to exist without my twin..

 

Trust me, don't even try to understand this unless you are an (identical) twin.

Are you OP's boyfriend?

I showed this thread to my sister-in-law, who is an identical twin. She also thinks it's completely nuts and very unhealthy. 

Perhaps you would benefit from some counselling, too.  

[Wiseman2]

16 hours ago, VM22911 said:

I don't think I could go back to that house for much longer than 2 years

Unfortunately there's a lot of logistical issues. For example  you have  expensive student debt, you're not making a lot of money, you're having issues affording housing and your education. 

Unfortunately in order for you to have more say and equity, you would have to move out into your own place and work full time to afford the cost of living.

As long as you live rent free and your BF and his brother subsidize your education and housing, you may feel stuck. 

So far your BF is not interested in marriage and be very clear that he and his family have already made provisions (co-owning the house) so that their assets stay in the family.

Sadly if you want to afford your education and the cost of living in that area, you'll have to endure whatever your BF and his brother do and decide. 

[VM22911]

9 hours ago, TheCrow said:

Trust me, don't even try to understand this unless you are an (identical) twin.

They're not identical twins. They're fraternal

[VM22911]

16 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Do you get the sense that he is going to act on his words -that he will be committed to you in all the ways you want in less than 5 years?

I think so. I think the pressure from me and his family will get to him by then. 

He also admitted that he prefers it just the two of us when I asked him about our life now. Although his actions don't really show that

[Tinydance]

42 minutes ago, VM22911 said:

They're not identical twins. They're fraternal

That makes it even worse lol

[VM22911]

12 hours ago, boltnrun said:

Does he make you feel you "owe" him because he agreed to move with you?

Is your decision to stay in this relationship contingent on him "changing"?

Do you fear losing him? If so, do you fear losing him the way he is now or potential for the situation changing sometime in the future? In other words, do you fear losing the present him or the potential future him?

I definitely feel like I owe him for moving.

It I lost him I would miss him as he is now. I love him and don't want him to change at all, just our situation.

[VM22911]

10 hours ago, TheCrow said:

I'm an identical twin. Unhealthy attachment?? We're one being divided into two by nature. Yeah sure, I can therapy myself out of not being able to exist without my twin..

 

Trust me, don't even try to understand this unless you are an (identical) twin.

I have resigned myself to never being able to understand their relationship.

But surely if he wants a life with me and to get married one day as he says he does, then he needs to get some space away from his twin.

[VM22911]

9 hours ago, Tinydance said:

 

His argument about money doesn't really make sense. Yes he's paying off the mortgage. But what people who have a mortgage often do is they actually get a tenant into that place who pays them rent. So that pays off their mortgage. A few of my friends actually do this. He could get a tenant to move in with his brother and be paying that money to him. Also he says he's going to get an even higher paying job so why is money a problem? When you really think about it he doesn't actually even have reasons why he needs to keep living with his brother.

I think when you finish your course, you should apply for a job in the study field. Once you have a job you move out. Your boyfriend can come or not but YOU move. You are so unhappy, why are you just doing everything he wants? It's absolutely reasonable to want to live with your partner alone, nothing wrong with it. Especially as the brother gives you no space or privacy. If he lived his own separate life that would be different. But he doesn't.

 

I have suggested the tenant thing before. He doesn't think he could get his brother to agree to it so that got shot down pretty quickly.

He is very careful with his money, so two places would bother him. For example, the mortage they got is a 30 year mortage. They, in theory could pay a lot more into it but wanted to still live very comfortably by paying as little money a month as possible.

Thank you for saying my feelings are reasonable, sometimes I feel like I'm being crazy and demanding. You are right. My plan is now to make as much money as possible after graduation, pay off my debt and once that is done, try and find my own place. 

[VM22911]

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

As long as you live rent free and your BF and his brother subsidize your education and housing, you may feel stuck. 

So far your BF is not interested in marriage and be very clear that he and his family have already made provisions (co-owning the house) so that their assets stay in the family.

Sadly if you want to afford your education and the cost of living in that area, you'll have to endure whatever your BF and his brother do and decide. 

Just to clarify, his brother has paid nothing towards my education.

Where I am living to study is very expensive but where we were living before wasn't and I was affording that on my own just fine.

But also for some more context. He and his brother bought a house out in the suburbs, a half hour train from where I used to live in the heart of the city. As a young person, with no children and friends who all live in the city. I would have never chosen to live there on my own, I feel too isolated and find suburb life surronded by young families a little draining. 

So if and when I were to get my own place, it would be a completely different area in the city. I don't put up with it because I really love living in their house or anything.