Two cats, tension in home, medication, what to do?

[Alex39]

I feel so much guilt. I just put my male cat on medicine and so far things seem better with him. I got him in 2019 as a kitten. Then in 2020, I brought home a female kitten to be his friend. I thought things were fine. We also moved to a larger apartment in 2020. They are both fixed, indoor only. Cats were okay. Then in later 2021, he started going after the girl cat a lot.  He would stalk her, chase her, bully her, bite her neck, hump her, and nighttime was constant running across me in bed. In 2022, he attacked me randomly multiple times. Seemed like redirected aggression. I didn't associate it with the other cat, because they ate together, sat looking out windows together, and would lay near each other in same room. Didn't seem totally at odds. 

But things started getting so hard living everyday. I am afraid in my home. When they are asleep, things are okay. When they are awake, I'm on high alert, trying to distract him from her, watch to see if he goes into attack mode, constant stress. 

I finally consulted a behaviorist and a new vet. They suspect he doesn't like the female cat and maybe is triggered by her in his space. They suggested I do a year long separation re-introduction, which might not work or re-home the younger cat. They also suggested medication. So far, on the medication he is doing better and seems less irritated. I don't know if I need to do the other things. 

He's on gabapentin now, and they are going to transition him to Prozac soon. The gabapentin is good. He seems still himself, less upset, and more relaxed. Not going after her as much anymore. Not really at all. He seems like the nice cat I used to know. 

 Now I feel guilty drugging him up. That he changed because of the other cat. The other cat likes him and is very nice.  That maybe re-homing her may solve his issues altogether. I love both animals. I am trying to do the best for both of them and myself. My vet says he may still need meds even if she was gone, but she isn't sure. Cats can't talk and they are only using educated guesses. 

Should I feel guilty? I have a family member that can take her, but I was hoping to keep her too.

[Wiseman2]

38 minutes ago, Alex39 said:

. My vet says he may still need meds even if she was gone, 

Listen to the vet. As long as the cats get along now that the aggressive one is treated, just let them be.

[catfeeder]

37 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Listen to the vet. As long as the cats get along now that the aggressive one is treated, just let them be.

Makes no sense to rehome her when you don't even know that she's the issue. You say she still likes him, so his behavior isn't stressing her.

Have you ever seen cats mate? You may want to check videos of that, because it sounds like he's simulating that with her.

Neck biting is often part of that, and if he's not actually breaking her skin, then it's not an attack bite.

I sat for a neighbor's pair, same deal, existing male, added female kitten. After a year or so, same thing. It would appear to an observer that he might be hurting her, but she just went with it and was fine. Every so often she'd get annoyed and whomp him. Sometimes they'd hiss and sound like a herd of camels running after one another.

They never actually harmed one another.

See how things go over time, and let them duke it out while you observe who is actually provoking who. You might be surprised that this varies--he may not always be the aggressor.

My sister's existing cat will never accept her new wild sister. But while they can sound horrible with some fighting, its really just territorial fake fights. You wouldn't know it by the sound--as though they're killing one another. But they don't do actual damage.

Learn whether the only one who's truly bothered by any of this is you? That would be a relief, wouldn't it?

Cats do make fight noise sometimes--they can sound awfully dangerous even when it's all-bark-no-bite. Observe whether it's just sibling rivalry or whether someone is actually getting hurt.

I hope you'll keep us up to date, and don't do the guilt thing. Also, have vet check whether her spay may not be complete and she might be having heat cycles. THAT would drive your poor guy bonkers.

[catfeeder]

Even if your male is neutered, he can display what's called 'mounting behavior' with a female. It's not tragic, or anything.

From Some Reasons for Mounting Behavior in Neutered Cats

Quote

Even after being neutered, the male may become stimulated enough to try to mount a nearby female cat in heat due to her scent. A neutered male can even display mounting behavior toward a spayed female. Veterinary behaviorist, Nicholas Dodman, has suggested this may have something to do with the fact that the female doesn’t smell like a male. Since intact males can detect the odor of a female in heat from a distance, the fact that the female, although not giving off the scent of being in heat, may have enough of a scent to trigger the male.

Cats neutered at an older age may be more likely to engage in mounting behavior as well.

High levels of social stress may trigger mounting behavior just as it can trigger urine-marking behavior.

Mounting behavior in neutered cats can also be an attempt at reinforcing status.

From Causes of Heat Signs in Spayed Cats

Quote

...it is possible that there is ovarian tissue still in the body and producing estrogen. This can happen for a few different reasons. In rare cases, a small piece of ovarian tissue could be left behind during surgery, allowing continued secretion of estrogen and signs of heat. In other cases, a female cat could possess accessory ovarian tissue separate from the main ovaries that could continue to secrete estrogen after a spay is performed1 In even more rare cases, if a small amount of ovarian tissue accidentally fell back into the abdomen during the spay surgery, it could continue to secrete estrogen if it could develop a new blood supply. Owners may not notice a change in their cat's behavior right away and signs of heat may not develop until months after surgery.

A cat showing signs of heat after a spay should go the vet as soon as possible for testing. This often includes bloodwork to determine if hormone levels are high and consistent with active ovarian tissue.

 

[Kwothe28]

Male cats are very territorial. Especially if they are not neutered. Introduction of new pet can trigger that. You didnt said if he was neutered. But seems like he is not. Neutering can greatly reduce agression in cats. If you are not planning on mating him, it might be something to look up as a solution. Its better then to medicate him like he is some kind of mental patient with prozac and you wouldnt need to give the other cat.

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, Alex39 said:

 They are both fixed, In 2022, he attacked me randomly multiple times.

There's a lot of things that could make the cats' behaviors uneasy for you.

One aspect is that they may pick up on your anxiety and another is they're unhappy in their environment. Unfortunately you had a similar issue with your parents dog attacking you.

Another factor is medical problems, but you've already brought them to a veterinarian for that.

If you like reading, there's plenty of excellent books about cat behavior. You might be able to get some tips on making their environment less stressful and how to manage undesirable behavior.

[Alex39]

8 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

Male cats are very territorial. Especially if they are not neutered. Introduction of new pet can trigger that. You didnt said if he was neutered. But seems like he is not. Neutering can greatly reduce agression in cats. If you are not planning on mating him, it might be something to look up as a solution. Its better then to medicate him like he is some kind of mental patient with prozac and you wouldnt need to give the other cat.

He is neutered. 

[Alex39]

9 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Makes no sense to rehome her when you don't even know that she's the issue. You say she still likes him, so his behavior isn't stressing her.

Have you ever seen cats mate? You may want to check videos of that, because it sounds like he's simulating that with her.

Neck biting is often part of that, and if he's not actually breaking her skin, then it's not an attack bite.

I sat for a neighbor's pair, same deal, existing male, added female kitten. After a year or so, same thing. It would appear to an observer that he might be hurting her, but she just went with it and was fine. Every so often she'd get annoyed and whomp him. Sometimes they'd hiss and sound like a herd of camels running after one another.

They never actually harmed one another.

See how things go over time, and let them duke it out while you observe who is actually provoking who. You might be surprised that this varies--he may not always be the aggressor.

My sister's existing cat will never accept her new wild sister. But while they can sound horrible with some fighting, its really just territorial fake fights. You wouldn't know it by the sound--as though they're killing one another. But they don't do actual damage.

Learn whether the only one who's truly bothered by any of this is you? That would be a relief, wouldn't it?

Cats do make fight noise sometimes--they can sound awfully dangerous even when it's all-bark-no-bite. Observe whether it's just sibling rivalry or whether someone is actually getting hurt.

I hope you'll keep us up to date, and don't do the guilt thing. Also, have vet check whether her spay may not be complete and she might be having heat cycles. THAT would drive your poor guy bonkers.

He chases her, sneak attacks her, jumps at her biting her neck, swatting at her. She hides and cowers from him. Even last night. He chased her into the bed. Then decided he wanted to lay on the bed, so chased her off the bed so he could lay. She wandered for a while, not sure what to do. Then she finally jumped up to lay near me. He was sleeping. 

Today, she went to lay in his bed.  They have two cat beds. They both like one more for some reason. She was laying. He went over, swatted her, then jumped on her, she got away and ran. He then layed down in the bed. Like he's saying, it's mine. 

[Batya33]

51 minutes ago, Alex39 said:

He is neutered. 

Catfeeder gave you excellent input on why that might not be sufficient

[Kwothe28]

2 hours ago, Alex39 said:

He is neutered. 

Ah, I see. Thought "fixed" means they are fixed at home and dont go out. Here, maybe this text help

 

https://www.tenthlifecats.org/all-about-cats/cat-behavior/intra-cat-aggression#:~:text=Once spayed or neutered%2C keep,age may continue aggressive behavior.

 

[Cherylyn]

I would get rid of one of the cats.  Either keep the male or female but not both. 

If it were me,  I'd keep the female cat and give the male cat to a cat rescue organization with full disclosure. 

I would never tolerate biting especially biting me or others in my household.

We had a male neutered cat when my younger son was 3 years old and whenever he was on the floor playing with his train set,  this cat would bite him on the cheek and thigh unprovoked! 😡 There was a pecking order in the family and this cat never bit my husband,  older son by a few years nor me.  This cat felt competitive and territorial with my little 3 year old son.

We gave this cat to my local in-laws and even though he occasionally bit my MIL (mother-in-law) and never bit my FIL (father-in-law).  They gave him a good,  long life.  He eventually outgrew biting as he mellowed and aged over the years. 

No more dogs,  cats,  aquarium fish,  hamsters,  lizards,  birds nor pets in my house.  Been there done that. 

(I miss my beloved,  calm,  quiet,  super intelligent,  extremely well behaved late Golden Retriever.  However, the break from high maintenance pets is a relief.)

 

 

[Batya33]

13 hours ago, catfeeder said:

My sister's existing cat will never accept her new wild sister. But while they can sound horrible with some fighting, its really just territorial fake fights. You wouldn't know it by the sound--as though they're killing one another. But they don't do actual damage.

We had this situation.  I had a male cat -fixed. We agreed to keep my cousin's male cat for a week while the furbaby parents were away.  My cat was more energetic than the other.  We'd never had two cats in our house.  So I guess I didn't know what to expect. My cat -oh gosh -was so I guess territorial.  Like, he'd hiss at the other cat or sort of fight -no biting (my cat was declawed - 1970s when we didn't know this was often wrong to do to a cat!) - but yes fighting but no damage ever from either. My cat would sit on top of a kitchen chair and wait for S to come by and as he did he'd reach out a paw and swat him on his tail or whatever he could reach.  But -a swat.  That's it.  Your description made me remember this!

I am sure S never ever got hurt because my mom would have immediately called our relative or done something about it like separate them in different rooms.  Or I'd remember some post-visit discussion.  Maybe they ended up getting along? Back then I didn't really understand that my cat simply wanted no one else getting attention/his throne, etc. I like the distinction made in the above post.  

[catfeeder]

5 hours ago, Alex39 said:

He chases her, sneak attacks her, jumps at her biting her neck, swatting at her. She hides and cowers from him. Even last night. He chased her into the bed. Then decided he wanted to lay on the bed, so chased her off the bed so he could lay. She wandered for a while, not sure what to do. Then she finally jumped up to lay near me. He was sleeping. 

Today, she went to lay in his bed.  They have two cat beds. They both like one more for some reason. She was laying. He went over, swatted her, then jumped on her, she got away and ran. He then layed down in the bed. Like he's saying, it's mine. 

This is not uncommon, and it's not really even a 'problem'. He might run her off sometimes. But she's not all that intimidated, or she wouldn't go and deliberately take up his bed.

Cats are wild animals. We believe that WE can domesticate them, but wilding will still come out now and then.

Don't project human emotions on to that. This does not 'have to' be an issue. Let them work out their territory stuff. It will sound nasty at times, but has anyone actually gotten hurt?

[catfeeder]

1 hour ago, Cherylyn said:

I would never tolerate biting especially biting me or others in my household.

I can appreciate this and respect it. This is just my opinion for the OP, and not an attempt to change your mind.

I want to clarify a big difference between an actual bite versus grabbing onto something and holding it in the mouth--without harm. This is typical behavior of cats.

When males do 'mounting behavior' on females they hold the scruff of her neck. Thing is, if you separate them, the male may just start doing this with objects like blankets or towels that they twist up by pretending to mount, then by grabbing it with the mouth and clawing and shifting.

Other 'fighting' neck grabs 'appear' aggressive, but they are pseudo attacks designed to just run the other off.

These are NATURAL behaviors in cats. I understand they are not 'desirable', but they don't need to be a punishable offenses.

I can understand introducing medications to learn whether this can lessen the male's anxiety, but I'd also get HER hormones checked with bloodwork. In some cases spays can leave tissue that emits hormones that can torture a male--even if he's neutered.

I just hate to think of breaking up a pair when they both have bonded with the owner and, despite some periods of scuffle, still have learned not to actually harm the other--both of whom deserve the home that they love.

 

[Alex39]

1 hour ago, catfeeder said:

This is not uncommon, and it's not really even a 'problem'. He might run her off sometimes. But she's not all that intimidated, or she wouldn't go and deliberately take up his bed.

Cats are wild animals. We believe that WE can domesticate them, but wilding will still come out now and then.

Don't project human emotions on to that. This does not 'have to' be an issue. Let them work out their territory stuff. It will sound nasty at times, but has anyone actually gotten hurt?

I've gotten attacked 5 to 6 times last year. Damon has attacked my face, arms, legs multiple times. I've had multiple infections and had to get medical care. He seems hyped up and upset at Lola and redirects to me sometimes. 

[Alex39]

53 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

I can appreciate this and respect it. This is just my opinion for the OP, and not an attempt to change your mind.

I want to clarify a big difference between an actual bite versus grabbing onto something and holding it in the mouth--without harm. This is typical behavior of cats.

When males do 'mounting behavior' on females they hold the scruff of her neck. Thing is, if you separate them, the male may just start doing this with objects like blankets or towels that they twist up by pretending to mount, then by grabbing it with the mouth and clawing and shifting.

Other 'fighting' neck grabs 'appear' aggressive, but they are pseudo attacks designed to just run the other off.

These are NATURAL behaviors in cats. I understand they are not 'desirable', but they don't need to be a punishable offenses.

I can understand introducing medications to learn whether this can lessen the male's anxiety, but I'd also get HER hormones checked with bloodwork. In some cases spays can leave tissue that emits hormones that can torture a male--even if he's neutered.

I just hate to think of breaking up a pair when they both have bonded with the owner and, despite some periods of scuffle, still have learned not to actually harm the other--both of whom deserve the home that they love.

 

I was mauled in my face. Damon bite me and scratched me. I gave scars. My legs and arms are scars too. These aren't nice little nips. I'm being jumped on like a flying squirrel and attacked. 

[LootieTootie]

8 hours ago, Alex39 said:

He chases her, sneak attacks her, jumps at her biting her neck, swatting at her.

and he sneak attacks you too I am assuming? 

This just sounds like a bored cat to be honest. This is pretty common with male cats who aren't getting enough stimulation and they need to tap in to their inner wild animal instincts. Which means, highly territorial, want to play-fight, want to show who is alpha, looking for a hunt. 

Also the biting in the neck- if there's no broken skin on your girl cat, this is all part of postering and play that cats and dogs do - they're like saying "ha, I got you at your weakest spot" or "don't make me chomp down next time."

We had a male kitten who was neutered but when he turned 1, he just became too much for the family and so we finally let him go outside and roam. That seemed to help because he calmed down and stopped attacking family members. Of course this might not be an option for you. So here is what I suggest.

Try 15 minutes of play with your cat every day and before you sleep. Put your female cat in a kennel or another room. You need to re-bond with your male cat. One on one attention. Play with him but using yarns or any interactive cat toy he likes, and reward him with a treat at the end. Make sure you use a sweet voice and compliment him. Animals may not know human language but they understand tone.

If he scratches you or hurt you or hurt your other female cat, you need to be able to assert yourself and try to wrangle him and put him in another room to calm down. 

So glad I have dogs, they're easier to wrangle ha

[Seraphim]

3 hours ago, Alex39 said:

I've gotten attacked 5 to 6 times last year. Damon has attacked my face, arms, legs multiple times. I've had multiple infections and had to get medical care. He seems hyped up and upset at Lola and redirects to me sometimes. 

Do you play with him multiple times a day? A great way to reduce aggression is being played with . He could be telling you he needs more play time . At one time I had four male cats together and never had an issue for years. Currently I have two male cats, a set of full brothers from the same litter. One is more dominant and will mount his brother and even periodically chase his brother thundering through the house at night . This is cat behaviour and not aggression but playing and dominance .

If your cat is breaking skin with you he needs more play time several times a day. He is bored. Cats are predators and prey at the same time . They are also only semi domesticated. 

[Seraphim]

Also GABA and Prozac are perfectly safe in cats . My vet routinely prescribed gaba for travelling and said it is very common to use Prozac in overly uptight cats. 

[Alex39]

I feel I owe it to them and to myself to try.  Damon is a bit better on the medication. And they are adding another medication for him this week. So he will be on two. The gapapentin and Prozac together.  He isn't all loopy or sedated. He's himself, but he seems less upset than he was. I think I need to try this new medicine coming up, and not just throw in the towel yet. He is going to stay on current med, and the new one will take 6 to 8 weeks to take effect. I think I owe it to try to see if that will change things. If it doesn't, I do plan on maybe re-homing Lola. But I am trying everything before that happens. Honestly, Damon is just a bully cat. I just read an article about cats bullying other cats. It described Damon to a T. I'm going to be adding further resources like litter boxes and food stations to see how that goes. It says sometimes bully cats react better with more resources and less sharing. Again, adding resources and the medication. I have to try it and give it time. If he goes the 6 to 8 weeks on the meds and there is no chance, then I am considering re-home.

[Alex39]

Is it bad that I lock Lola in with me all night in my room? I am usually up a million times if I let them be free together, door open. Damon will cuddle in bed sometimes, but he only lasts a few hours, then scares he off the bed, is making all sorts of noise around the room, fighting with her,  and then I feel stressed, so I've been locking Lola in with me at night. I let her out halfway through night. Give them some treats, then lock her back in. Last night, I only got up once, I slept like a baby. And honestly it felt so good. I know Damon would like to cuddle on the bed, but he also causes problems with Lola and if I lock them both out, they fight, so I do it to protect Lola. 

 

Is this bad?

I'm trying my best here. 

[Wiseman2]

10 minutes ago, Alex39 said:

 I'm going to be adding further resources like litter boxes and food stations to see how that goes. 

Yes they should each have their own food bowls and litter boxes. Making them compete for territory creates stress. Make sure they have their own scratching posts and toys and space. The older cat is the alpha since he was there first. 

[Alex39]

10 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Yes they should each have their own food bowls and litter boxes. Making them compete for territory creates stress. Make sure they have their own scratching posts and toys and space. The older cat is the alpha since he was there first. 

They have two litter boxes. I was thinking of adding one or two more. Should I put them in the same spot? 

They each have a food bowl and water bowl. But they are all in one space.  I was thinking of separating them more with designated spaces. 

[Seraphim]

Do they have space to get up high? Some cats like to be high and some are floor dwellers. They need their own territory. 
 

You can also try this. It is also recommended by my vet for multiple cat household. My vet is a registered fear free vet. 
 

It is on Amazon.

[Alex39]

21 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

Do they have space to get up high? Some cats like to be high and some are floor dwellers. They need their own territory. 
 

You can also try this. It is also recommended by my vet for multiple cat household. My vet is a registered fear free vet. 
 

It is on Amazon.

I just bought another cat condo,a bench for them to look out window, and more Feliway. My wallet isn't happy, but hopefully my cats will be.