She's backed away after a great second date, how to proceed?

[boltnrun]

13 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

... if someone isn't responsive to a message, I just don't see how a phone call would remedy that.

I agree. I meant instead of messaging, not calling in the event a message is ignored. If a man texted me to ask me out I wouldn't be super responsive either. I would think he's hiding behind a screen, fearful of rejection. And that's not attractive to me. 

However this woman responded to his messages while seemingly ignoring his date invitation. So to me that's somewhat of a grey area. Apparently he asked twice via message and she didn't acknowledge, so I agree it's time to move on. 

[Wonderstruck]

8 hours ago, MrMan1983 said:

I've learnt that the phone is for setting dates and not endless chit chat/flirting which needs to be saved for the date. I knew that already deep down but let myself get reeled into the excitement and her use of lots of messaging (on multiple occasions). Big big mistake.

I get that I should of called too but I felt with her busy lifestyle that I might be interrupting her day randomly when with her daughter or family as she's often with them, felt messaging/voice noting was less intrusive as she could check those when convenient but I know I could of sent a message to confirm a call in advance. I agree though phone calls are a much better habit to get into.

You have nothing to apologize for, OP.

I STRONGLY disagree that the solution is to always "call instead of text".

I think that it's a generational thing, but the older generation needs to accept that A LOT of people PREFER texting over phone calls.

Some people have phone anxiety. Some people just hate talking on the phone.

Please don't beat yourself up - you didn't do anything wrong.

For what it's worth, a lot of people from my generation HATE talking on the phone, and we would be RELIEVED if you stuck to voice notes and text messages, lol.

 

56 minutes ago, catfeeder said:

I respect those who advise calling, but frankly, if someone isn't responsive to a message, I just don't see how a phone call would remedy that.

THIS.

A phone call wouldn't have made a difference if she was rude enough to send you a laughing emoji in response to a Voice Note asking her out on a date.

[Wiseman2]

14 hours ago, MrMan1983 said:

I've heard back from pub girl and she's up for a date next Saturday 

Stick with women who give you definitive answers to dates. Good you set something else up. 

It doesn't matter if you communicate through calls, texts, telegrams, pony express or smoke signals.  Everyone and every generation has their preference. If a woman is interested, she'll reply to a text. If she's not, it doesn't matter what modality you use.

If a woman is interested she's going to answer you  directly rather than send dopey emojis in response to your invitation. 

Do cut back on trying to be "flirty" with texting rather than communicating useful information, such as setting up dates. 

As you can see, when you contacted pub woman, she replied with a definitive answer. You don't need a singing telegram to ask a woman out. You need an interested woman.

[MrMan1983]

15 hours ago, lostandhurt said:

Good news on the new woman for sure.

As for calling try calling when you have a good idea she is not busy like a few hours after work but not at dinner time.  If the woman doesn't answer leave this message "Hi ________ looks like I missed you, I will try back another time"  Then just leave it for a few days.  Don't leave a message asking her to call you back as that leaves you waiting and waiting.  If the woman is interested 9 times out of 10 they will call you back without prompting which is a good sign.  If they don't then wait a few days and call again.

 This takes a ton of guessing on your part out of the equation and also keeps you from wasting time and possibly missing out on someone else.

 Here are a few words to avoid when asking a woman on a date. "wondering" "hoping" "if you have time"

"I was wondering if you would like to go on a date with me"  "I was hoping you would like to meet for a drink"  "if you have time sometime give me a call"  These are all passive which is not good.

 The fact that you are here trying to improve is a very good sign.

Best of luck with the new woman.

Lost

Thanks for that, oh gosh on that latest voice note I did use the words 'I was wondering if you were still up for <insert activity discussed previously>....' before going into what slots were free on Friday/Saturday and to let me know which time slot works best for her but seems the outcome was pre determined by that point already. Previous occasions it was always 'I've seen <insert idea> in town are you up for going on <insert day>' as I was more sure of myself at that point. Strongly noted though.

[MrMan1983]

7 hours ago, Wonderstruck said:

You have nothing to apologize for, OP.

I STRONGLY disagree that the solution is to always "call instead of text".

I think that it's a generational thing, but the older generation needs to accept that A LOT of people PREFER texting over phone calls.

Some people have phone anxiety. Some people just hate talking on the phone.

Please don't beat yourself up - you didn't do anything wrong.

For what it's worth, a lot of people from my generation HATE talking on the phone, and we would be RELIEVED if you stuck to voice notes and text messages, lol.

 

THIS.

A phone call wouldn't have made a difference if she was rude enough to send you a laughing emoji in response to a Voice Note asking her out on a date.

Thank you, that's true generation does come into it and she's 10 years younger than me so even more of the texting/voice note generation than I am. I can see it from all angles though really.

[MrMan1983]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Stick with women who give you definitive answers to dates. Good you set something else up. 

It doesn't matter if you communicate through calls, texts, telegrams, pony express or smoke signals.  Everyone and every generation has their preference. If a woman is interested, she'll reply to a text. If she's not, it doesn't matter what modality you use.

If a woman is interested she's going to answer you  directly rather than send dopey emojis in response to your invitation. 

Do cut back on trying to be "flirty" with texting rather than communicating useful information, such as setting up dates. 

As you can see, when you contacted pub woman, she replied with a definitive answer. You don't need a singing telegram to ask a woman out. You need an interested woman.

Yep true, this whole situation did start with more definitive answers till they weren't anymore. In any case I'm 100% cutting back on the texting chatter, leads nowhere positive after a date is set and just removes mystery and convo that should be saved for the date.

[Batya33]

20 minutes ago, MrMan1983 said:

Thank you, that's true generation does come into it and she's 10 years younger than me so even more of the texting/voice note generation than I am. I can see it from all angles though really.

I don't think it's generational if the texting is substantive and it's motivated by passivity or wanting to hide behind a screen for some reason -I think using text in a chat buddy way with a stranger/near stranger you'd like to date is often a bad idea. 

Having said that I've been very surprised when people have tried to facetime without advance notice (not in dating context) -people younger than me -so..... texting is more comfortable than talking but then the person should be ready to be seen with no notice at all? (And yes these days I often make appointments via text to call whereas in the past you just -called -if it was during any reasonable hour.  

I think if you want to ask someone out on a date don't fool yourself into thinking -well we'll just get to know each other first over texting constantly and sending photos of our lunch sandwich filling, etc.  Not 'you" just in general. To me that's not generational.  Certainly text to confirm the date etc not "call" each time -that is generational for sure!

[MrMan1983]

Hi guys, so a week or so later I spoke to her again and she said she was pleased to hear from me as she smashed her phone and didn’t have my number saved to sim, she exchanged some flirty messages but to be honest after the last attempts to set a date it’s weird. Feels stupid but I wish I could just know or have total closure on the situation (granted her not setting a date likely is). I’m pretty sure it’s done but would the below be pathetic to send?

”Evening <name>, how was your weekend? I’m back from making friends (or enemies) with wildlife now 😆” (was on holiday in a forest for a week, we had been laughing at a vid of a squirrel biting me on previous messages, anyway)…”would be great to finally meet up again soon, are you free over this week or the next? Thinking getting roasted sitting at the front of comedy night could be a right laugh or the original more local plans. If things have changed at your end though (with regards to dating) then no hard feelings, wasn’t sure if last time I asked was bad timing x”

Was thinking that at least might make her comfortable about opening up if I’m not going to be butthurt about it, but just asking straight out so I know.

Or is that just needy and pathetic sounding? I’m really crap with all this.

Oh and on separate news pub girl flaked, really feeling a bit down on myself now especially after feeling very good about life a few weeks back. 

[Cherylyn]

No, it's not needy nor pathetic.  Wait for her response.  Hope it works out for you! 

Try not to fret about the flaked out pub girl.  Win some, lose some but hope for the best! 

[MrMan1983]

9 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

No, it's not needy nor pathetic.  Wait for her response.  Hope it works out for you! 

Try not to fret about the flaked out pub girl.  Win some, lose some but hope for the best! 

Sent and read so far, hope I don’t get ghosted now to add insult to injury.

[Batya33]

It sounds fine! Is she a fan of drinking/getting drunk? 

She had no other way to reach out to you other than phone? Social media, etc?

I think it's fine that you asked her out again.  I hope she responds and I'm sorry about pub woman!

[MrMan1983]

Just now, Batya33 said:

It sounds fine! Is she a fan of drinking/getting drunk? 

She had no other way to reach out to you other than phone? Social media, etc?

I think it's fine that you asked her out again.  I hope she responds and I'm sorry about pub woman!

Glad it sounded fine, wasn’t sure if my “if things have changed at your end (with regards to dating) then no hard feelings” came off super low in confidence or did it sound straight to the point? I’m second guessing everything at this point, including why people seem to lose interest after 2/3 dates.

Nope we’re not on socials so maybe it was legit, although we were on WhatsApp but maybe she doesn’t have it backing up but yeh, who knows on that front.   

She’s a fan of stand up comedy or activities but not a fan of drinking lots, but enjoys one or two.  

 

[MrMan1983]

10 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

It sounds fine! Is she a fan of drinking/getting drunk? 

She had no other way to reach out to you other than phone? Social media, etc?

I think it's fine that you asked her out again.  I hope she responds and I'm sorry about pub woman!

Ohhhh by roasted I meant roasted by the comedians, does it sound like getting hammered? 

[Batya33]

OK.  I think it's fine - why do people lose interest after 2/3 dates? Happened to me on both sides many many times- to me it was obvious -because those are really early days and can be a particular reason or no reason at all -my reasons were varied:

-gave it 2-3 dates to see if I felt chemistry, and didn't

- found out disturbing info on first or second date

- met someone else I liked better and didn't feel like juggling

- realized we didn't have enough in common.

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, MrMan1983 said:

Ohhhh by roasted I meant roasted by the comedians, does it sound like getting hammered? 

Yes!  I'm sure she will know -sorry my mistake!!

[MrMan1983]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

OK.  I think it's fine - why do people lose interest after 2/3 dates? Happened to me on both sides many many times- to me it was obvious -because those are really early days and can be a particular reason or no reason at all -my reasons were varied:

-gave it 2-3 dates to see if I felt chemistry, and didn't

- found out disturbing info on first or second date

- met someone else I liked better and didn't feel like juggling

- realized we didn't have enough in common.

True could be any number of reasons, just a shame it was after such a seemingly good second date. She could probably sense I was over eager after though but it is what it is now can’t undo it. Hopefully she’ll at least say one way or another after this message. 

[Batya33]

36 minutes ago, MrMan1983 said:

True could be any number of reasons, just a shame it was after such a seemingly good second date. She could probably sense I was over eager after though but it is what it is now can’t undo it. Hopefully she’ll at least say one way or another after this message. 

I've had amazing early dates followed by radio silence.  But my expectations always remained -if we didn't have a time/place plan for the next date there was no next date.  If the guy called in the future and I was still interested and available then cool we'd go out again.  That way I never "waited" or had expectations that were unrealistic.  To me if there's no plan for a next date then there is no next date.

[Cherylyn]

Ha!  I gave it a one and only chance for my dud dates and that was it for me.  No second chances!  No way.  I wasn't about to waste my time and energy. 

First date, the guy while "nice" was too boring of a conversationalist and I had to carry the entire discussion which wasn't much to begin with but something.  He was boring and bland.  His education and occupation didn't look promising either.  He didn't have potential in my book. 

2nd date, again dull as a door nail.  He was "OK" but something was missing.  I like quiet but he was too quiet.  We didn't click.  We couldn't relate well.  He was dime-a-dozen.  Ho hum. 

3rd date was too physical from the first meeting which was an instant turn off.  That date ended shortly and quickly much to my relief.  Automatic reject. 

4th date.  He had a good job,  good looking but he doused himself in men's cologne to the point of suffocating.  He reeked in after shave.  When he picked me up,  he promptly handed his car's fast food trash bag and used paper products to my mother and asked her to discard all of it for him.  Talk about tacky and another instant turn off.  He was so rude.  If that wasn't bad enough, he drove like a maniac as I feared for my life! 🥵  When he dropped me off,  good riddance!  Ewww. 

5th date was the winner. 😊 My husband.  Great character,  very humble,  modest personality,  great big blue eyes!, so handsome in every way,  tall,  strong,  my protector,  shield,  buffer,  exemplary gentleman to the truest sense of the word,  great career,  hails from an amazing family,  grew up normally and I won the lottery with him.  Finding him was like finding a needle in a haystack.  I'm his very blessed and lucky wife.  We have two great sons who are reminiscent of their father.  We live a very comfortable, content, stable life in the suburbs. 

[Kwothe28]

1 hour ago, MrMan1983 said:

Or is that just needy and pathetic sounding?

I dont think its "needy" to just ask. Though you could do without "If thinks have changed on your end" stuff. She can tell you if things have changed, you just ask for date and wait for answer.

Also I dont think you need "closure" in a situations like this. Lots of dates at start just "fizzle out" for one reason or other. We take a hit sometimes and move on to fight more, its no shame.

Also, also, I dont buy her "I smashed phone" excuse. If she hasnt "backed" contacts she could have found another way to reach you if she wanted. And you said she actually read past messages but didnt respond. Very low interest overall so dont expect too much.

[Batya33]

11 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Also, also, I dont buy her "I smashed phone" excuse. If she hasnt "backed" contacts she could have found another way to reach you if she wanted. And you said she actually read past messages but didnt respond. Very low interest overall so dont expect too much.

Same.  Certainly I've seen FB messages from friends "lost my phone so for now pls contact me [lists options]" Where there's a will...

[lostandhurt]

You are interested and are giving it one more try.  Nothing to feel negative about in that.  I have done it several times even when I knew there was a good chance I wouldn't get the response I wanted just so I could stick a pin in it and move on with no wondering.  It is seconds out of your life to send the message so relax and see what happens.

 The key is finding someone that is as excited to get to know you as you are them.

 Lost

[MrMan1983]

25 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

I dont think its "needy" to just ask. Though you could do without "If thinks have changed on your end" stuff. She can tell you if things have changed, you just ask for date and wait for answer.

Also I dont think you need "closure" in a situations like this. Lots of dates at start just "fizzle out" for one reason or other. We take a hit sometimes and move on to fight more, its no shame.

Also, also, I dont buy her "I smashed phone" excuse. If she hasnt "backed" contacts she could have found another way to reach you if she wanted. And you said she actually read past messages but didnt respond. Very low interest overall so dont expect too much.

True, still no reply yet so I’m giving a low chance of a positive response right now. No idea how hard sending “enjoyed our dates but sorry I don’t quite feel a connection” can be to send though. 

[MrMan1983]

Just now, lostandhurt said:

You are interested and are giving it one more try.  Nothing to feel negative about in that.  I have done it several times even when I knew there was a good chance I wouldn't get the response I wanted just so I could stick a pin in it and move on with no wondering.  It is seconds out of your life to send the message so relax and see what happens.

 The key is finding someone that is as excited to get to know you as you are them.

 Lost

Thanks, that’s true it’s a way of just putting a pin in it at least. 

[boltnrun]

1 hour ago, MrMan1983 said:

True, still no reply yet so I’m giving a low chance of a positive response right now. No idea how hard sending “enjoyed our dates but sorry I don’t quite feel a connection” can be to send though. 

As a woman I tend to tread carefully about sending polite "no thanks" messages. I was threatened by someone I dated for almost two years because I didn't want to see him again when he contacted me a few years after we broke up. He frightened me. I'm sure you're a decent guy who would never dream of doing something like that, but maybe she had a bad experience in the past and is cautious as a result. 

Or...she might be the type who avoids anything unpleasant or potentially awkward. 

[MrMan1983]

3 hours ago, boltnrun said:

As a woman I tend to tread carefully about sending polite "no thanks" messages. I was threatened by someone I dated for almost two years because I didn't want to see him again when he contacted me a few years after we broke up. He frightened me. I'm sure you're a decent guy who would never dream of doing something like that, but maybe she had a bad experience in the past and is cautious as a result. 

Or...she might be the type who avoids anything unpleasant or potentially awkward. 

Probably the latter, I was her first ever online date and previous relationships were an 8 year marriage then since then just two short term guys who were friends of friends who didn’t sound like terrible experiences. 
 

Personally I would just say I enjoyed the two dates and wish her all the best for the future and leave it at that.