Should I stay or go?

[Spillevinken]

Hi

Since two years ago I have a beautiful girlfriend. From start we asked each other what alcohol consumption we should expect from each other. So I said that I will priority the relationship. She said the same. None of us appeared to have any interest of going out to drink. We are both 44 years old. She also said that she does not belive in friendship between the gender and that she always deny guys at work who bid her out to have a drink, because she assume that they have some interest in her.

We have had three miscarriges and now we are heading to a egg donation because of the age. Since the beginning of our relationship I have found her avoidant. She has never wanted me to meet her friends, but I have though met one of her friends. But because I did this in the summer when I was having quite severe allergy, which limited my social skills when I repeatedly had to clean my nose, she thinks I do not belong with her friends. So, ever since then she only meet her friends in the city.

After we decided to try to make a baby we were in the down town and she saw a fresh club. Suddenly she said that if we fail to make a baby she can always party. I asked why I can not join her, why she wants to party all alone, but she said that she meant "party on life", as bicicling, For me that word has another meaning though. Anyway, after this she said that it is important that I am not at her place when she is in the city to meet her friends to drink wine. So, I asked about these habits, particular because I was absolutely not invited and because I wanted to know how much she will drink because I do not want to raise a family alone. She said that she will go out for a drink with her female friend 2-4 times a year. I found that fair, even though I would never meet these friends.

Anyway, recently she was pregnant. During the pregnancy she came home, she was behaving distant and cold as she sometimes can do. She refused to give me a hug both before the immidiatly shower after work. She was also distant all evening until we fell asleep. In the morning she get up, without a hug or anything, and in the doorway she said that a guy at work invited her out for a drink. I replied "Oh,ok". So she said "Yes, but I said that I do not drink. What a weird guy who wants to go out to have a drink in the middle of the day".

First I thought that she denied him, but then I was thinking about her weird behavier before she said this and her whole body language, so I said that I belive that she is not telling me the whole truth. After five tries and five different explanations about what she actually said I asked her to show me his message to her. She refused, but changed her mind. There she wrote that it would be superfun to have a drink with him. She also said that she would get back to him when she is drinking again and sent a smile.

Now I asked her if I could do the same. Because I have lost my work, I asked if I could ask out a girl at my former work. But that was not possible, because she was a former collegue. Eventuallty, in the disussion, she though changed her mind and said that I could ask her out but she would see it as a date and she asked me to wear protection if I wanted to have sex with her. I was quite chocked.

Later on when we was talking about this again, she said that I am sick in my head who felt bad about this. She said that she want to get to know this guy, to become friends and that I am not invited to get to now him, because she wants to open the window in the relationship, to get air. Otherwise she will feel bad, she said.

Now,  just before we are going to have our egg donation and make a family, I feel very insecure. I have anxiety about all the events where I have been excluded from her life. I even do not know her own sister, because she has also always wanted to be alone with her too, as her friends and mostly of the time also with her son and parents. When she has changed her view of friendship between friends (her last male friend is also her last ex boyfriend) and also changed her value about going out with collegues and that I am not ever invited combined with her bad reaction if I would do something similar, made me make a demand that I refuse to move to her town and make a baby if that means that I will babysit while she is out drinking with guys. So, she said that I have misunderstood everything, but I have not.

Now, two weeks before the egg transfer, I am thinking about what to do. Should I break up? But if I do, I will lose a, in every other aspect, totally wonderful girlfriend. But if I dont, I have to live with a decision from my side, that I refuse to make a family with someone who wants to spend the family life by having drinks with guy friends in the evenings (or days). I do not want to be controlling. I really feel bad about that feeling. What would you have done?

 

 

[smackie9]

Run for the hills! Have a baby with her?! you crazy? Dude there is way better than this. 

[Andrina]

You have an extremely low self esteem if you think this is a prized partner. Your life already sounds like a living hell to me. It doesn't have to be like this. Free yourself and with time and distance, you will shake your head at how close you came to ruining your life.

[Kwothe28]

You met an average big city party woman. They love to have a drink, have fun, sleep around with anybody they like without any commitment. But then they hit "the wall". They come to certain age, biological clock hits and they realize they want a family. Problem is, they are not "family oriented". So they maybe find some man to make them a baby. But they cant abandon that "sweet party life". Too many drinks to be drinked and too many men to be sexed. 

Run. You are not controlling anything there, she is. Worst thing you can do to yourself is to have a kid with somebody like that. Who is by lifestyle alone very unfit to have a kid. There is nothing wrong in going away from the person like that. And finding somebody more suitable that you want to build your future with.

[reinventmyself]

1 hour ago, Spillevinken said:

I have found her avoidant.

Giving her a label appears to minimize what you've got going on.  She doesn't have issues being 'avoidant'.  She's clearly avoiding you.  

If you take anything away from this, simply run away from anyone who keeps you a secret.  Absolutely do not bring a child into this.

Why don't you believe you deserve better?

[Batya33]

59 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

You met an average big city party woman. They love to have a drink, have fun, sleep around with anybody they like without any commitment. But then they hit "the wall". They come to certain age, biological clock hits and they realize they want a family. Problem is, they are not "family oriented". So they maybe find some man to make them a baby. But they cant abandon that "sweet party life". Too many drinks to be drinked and too many men to be sexed. 

Nothing typical or average about this woman's choices or behavior.  I did all my dating from age 14-39 in a major city.  I have never been drunk or took any drugs, went to many parties and many social activities to have fun and hopefully meet a future husband when those were the sorts of activities, never slept around or had casual sex, never dated around past my early 20s. I was and still am always family oriented and wanted to marry and start a family starting at age 19.  I never ever wanted to settle for a man just to have a baby because I am a person who wanted to be a mom and act in the best interests of my child -and give that child a loving two-parent home, stable.

I cannot stand when a woman chooses to use men just to have a baby and be a mom.  Horrible.  Nothing to do with their age or where they live.

I am a lot like the women I knew then and I am a lot like the women in that age range I know of now.  I know of women who behave as described and some grew up in cities, some in small towns, everything in between.  

I agree with the others as far as advice

[Spillevinken]

1 hour ago, reinventmyself said:

Giving her a label appears to minimize what you've got going on.  She doesn't have issues being 'avoidant'.  She's clearly avoiding you.  

If you take anything away from this, simply run away from anyone who keeps you a secret.  Absolutely do not bring a child into this.

Why don't you believe you deserve better?

Yes, she has been avoiding me alot. I think it is because she has the avoidant attachment style, because everything that attachement style describes fits her behavier. About secret she said that she did not lie and she said that she actually avoided him and took control about if or when she wants to see him, but afterwards she anyway said that she wanted to become his friend. For me this is a lie, because she made me think that she denied him when she actually want to be his friend.

I do belive I deserve better. But I also make mistakes, as everyone else. I do belive I am worthy of love, I actually belive I am great to woman and I also do not lack any kind of confidence. But yet, maybe, I might have some sort of trauma bond to her, because even though I find it so hard to leave her because it feels like I have to control her when I say no to a behavier we agreed we would not have from start. Normally, by history, I have always left when I felt likeI have to remake my partner, because I do not belive in that and I do not belive in ultimatums.

Besides this, I asked her the other day how she wanted her relationships in the past. She said that her ex "could even" have a female friend. But she also said that he would not be allowed to have a female friend if they would get a kid together. She said this a couple of days ago. But she want me to enjoy her new male drinking friends who I am never going to see (because she said she also want to take another guy at the office out).

[tattoobunnie]

2 hours ago, Spillevinken said:

she wants to open the window in the relationship, to get air.

I even do not know her own sister

she has also always wanted to be alone with her friends and her son and parents.

going out with collegues and that I am not ever invited

I will lose a, in every other aspect, totally wonderful girlfriend...I do not want to be controlling.

Um, wow. Do not make a baby with this woman.  In fact, pack up all her $hit, and leave it out front.  She is HORRENDOUS.  How is telling her to not sleep with other dudes make you controlling?  You've lost self-respect for yourself.  Go find it.  44 is old for her to have kids, but sweetie, you are in your prime to find another younger woman, and procreate.  

Your current whatever is a HAG.  She does not deserve you.  And you will never be happy with her.

 

Just now, Spillevinken said:

avoidant attachment style

Nope.  She's just a rude a$$hat jerk.

 

[Kwothe28]

23 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Nothing typical or average about this woman's choices or behavior.  I did all my dating from age 14-39 in a major city.  I have never been drunk or took any drugs, went to many parties and many social activities to have fun and hopefully meet a future husband when those were the sorts of activities, never slept around or had casual sex, never dated around past my early 20s. I was and still am always family oriented and wanted to marry and start a family starting at age 19.  I never ever wanted to settle for a man just to have a baby because I am a person who wanted to be a mom and act in the best interests of my child -and give that child a loving two-parent home, stable.

 

Wanted to add at the end "This doesnt describe Batya and she shouldnt project herself onto it". Because you frequently do that without any reason why. But thought it was very obvious about what kind of "party life woman" I talked about. Cases that do indeed lead party life and then remember that they want a family at like 45. For example in my town they usually do it way before. Then have a baby, get divorce and then continue party life. In big cities like capital its indeed 40+ women. 

[Spillevinken]

9 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Wanted to add at the end "This doesnt describe Batya and she shouldnt project herself onto it". Because you frequently do that without any reason why. But thought it was very obvious about what kind of "party life woman" I talked about. Cases that do indeed lead party life and then remember that they want a family at like 45. For example in my town they usually do it way before. Then have a baby, get divorce and then continue party life. In big cities like capital its indeed 40+ women. 

Well, in this case, she is a big city girl. In her twenties to thirty she felt sorry for people who wanted to be family people. But then she met her ex that she got her son with. After 3 years she left him and ever since all her friends are used to meet her as a single girl, that is how she desribes why I can not see her friends.

[Spillevinken]

12 minutes ago, tattoobunnie said:

Um, wow. Do not make a baby with this woman.  In fact, pack up all her $hit, and leave it out front.  She is HORRENDOUS.  How is telling her to not sleep with other dudes make you controlling?  You've lost self-respect for yourself.  Go find it.  44 is old for her to have kids, but sweetie, you are in your prime to find another younger woman, and procreate.  

Your current whatever is a HAG.  She does not deserve you.  And you will never be happy with her.

 

Nope.  She's just a rude a$$hat jerk.

 

I have never said that she would sleep with someone. I did never even think about it and she has even complained that I seem to not be able to feel jelously. But, after she said that some guy at TV was superhot and I did not care and she said that I actually should be jelous and after being dumped twice after plus that she asked if I had group sex at my office when we formally intivted three woman from a bank to hear how the bank was thinking about some stuff and also after she freaked out and asked me to wear protection if I would have a drink with a collegaue I have known for 15 years, I have to admit I now feel insecure.

But I do feel controlling, anyway. Even though I explained in the start what I want and she agreed and said that she was the same as me. Well, now she is not. But I am still the same. I still want the same thing. I want a normal family life, not sitting home waiting when she is out having drinks with guys.

[tattoobunnie]

What do you think, "she wants to open the window in the relationship, to get air" means?  Especially after repeatedly lying about going to grab a drink with another man.

I know you are in shock, and cannot believe how someone can be this cruel, but bro, she is not good to you, is NOT a wonderful girlfriend.  You've been with her for a long while, and you're scared because you think you will be lonely and have no one else.  But geez bro, is your middle name doormat?

You are literally in your prime.  Imagine having kids with her, and she brings home dudes, and tells you to beat it while they busy?

[reinventmyself]

Avoidant attachments and trauma bonds aside.  This may or may not be going on.  But using these fancy labels gives this situation more credit than it deserves.  It feels as if you use them to excuse what's going on and no one takes responsibility.  Because after all if someone has these traits it might suggest it's beyond one's control.  It's a victim mentality.

You'll continue to use them as long as you it works for you.  But in the mean time you won't do the hard thing and face what you have and actually do something about it.

You have a one sided relationship that isn't going to get any better than it is right this very minute.

[boltnrun]

36 minutes ago, Spillevinken said:

. I want a normal family life

You're not going to get this with this woman.

[reinventmyself]

51 minutes ago, Spillevinken said:

I do belive I deserve better. . I do belive I am worthy of love, I actually belive I am great to woman and I also do not lack any kind of confidence.

Your words and actions are not in alignment here.  If you truly believed you deserved better, you would have been gone already. . Yet you are two years in and have never met her friends and continue to be secret. 

 . . And you wouldn't be here asking strangers is you should stay. You would have the confidence and self esteem to never have gotten to this point to begin with.

 

[Spillevinken]

1 hour ago, tattoobunnie said:

What do you think, "she wants to open the window in the relationship, to get air" means?  Especially after repeatedly lying about going to grab a drink with another man.

I know you are in shock, and cannot believe how someone can be this cruel, but bro, she is not good to you, is NOT a wonderful girlfriend.  You've been with her for a long while, and you're scared because you think you will be lonely and have no one else.  But geez bro, is your middle name doormat?

You are literally in your prime.  Imagine having kids with her, and she brings home dudes, and tells you to beat it while they busy?

She has explained to me that she needs impression outside the relationship, from her sister, parents, friends and colleagues. It is also important that I do not join her. I think it is normal to have friends etc and I have never excluded a girlfriend, but also never expected that the gf would like to join me everywhere because she can. Same with me. I have never been someones tail. So my gf explained to me that she need external contacts, but who does not? It is basic stuff to me, but for her it means that she always need to be alone with everyone, now including the new guys in her life. It become bizare though when she said that she wanted to exchange all her friends to hang around with this male coworker....

No, I am not scared that I would not meet someone that would like me. I am though scared that I will not like anyone, because the only one I can think about is my girlfriend ever since I met her. Maybe my head is ***ed up, or maybe it is because she also has alot of good sides. She is smart, funny, fun to hang around with, I love her laugh, how she talks, walks, hugs and kiss me. She also do care about children. But yet she does not feel like a family woman, because she is always talking about her freedom and how important it is to not be too tight in a relationship. She wants to keep a distance, because she is afraid of being close because she says it consumes her and she start to loose herself.

[Spillevinken]

1 hour ago, reinventmyself said:

Avoidant attachments and trauma bonds aside.  This may or may not be going on.  But using these fancy labels gives this situation more credit than it deserves.  It feels as if you use them to excuse what's going on and no one takes responsibility.  Because after all if someone has these traits it might suggest it's beyond one's control.  It's a victim mentality.

You'll continue to use them as long as you it works for you.  But in the mean time you won't do the hard thing and face what you have and actually do something about it.

You have a one sided relationship that isn't going to get any better than it is right this very minute.

Yes, I admit that I do look for explanations why everything that happens occur. Because she has sympathy, even though I often find it hard to find much of empathy from her. My feelings are unconfortable for her, so she says it is the best to not discuss it, because she does not belive in communication. Instead she want to do things.

I also agree that this relationship feels like it is very one-sided. On the other hand I also belive that she is also suffering, because she feels controlled everytime I feel something. So I also feel sorry for her... And I certainly do not wish her to feel so.

[Spillevinken]

46 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

You're not going to get this with this woman.

That is also my fear. It would have been good to see if someone in this thread would give me some perspective to everyone of your negative opinion about this relationship and what I should do.

[Spillevinken]

58 minutes ago, reinventmyself said:

Your words and actions are not in alignment here.  If you truly believed you deserved better, you would have been gone already. . Yet you are two years in and have never met her friends and continue to be secret. 

 . . And you wouldn't be here asking strangers is you should stay. You would have the confidence and self esteem to never have gotten to this point to begin with.

 

Well, I can understand that you think so. Somewhere in me I do not stand up for myself and there is a cause for that. I have invested so much in this girl and I want to belive in the best. She says that she has some kind of social phobia, so I can not meet anyone from her side. I belive her, but I am in the same time skeptical and I do get annoyed at this explanation because if she do have this phobia she should work on it, hard, by going against this feeling. Because it is normal to meet your partners life. I have never had any other experience before this girl and I know noone who ever did.

Maybe you are right and I asked her quite spot on from the beginning. If she back then had given me different answers, I am sure I would never sit here now talking to you. But now, after all this time, I am in chock and I am desperatly looking for a reason to see more bright on all of this behavier than I actually do.

[tattoobunnie]

8 minutes ago, Spillevinken said:

she has some kind of social phobia, so I can not meet anyone from her side.

Insert eye roll here.  She meets up with plenty of people.  It's not a social phobia.  When you are proud of someone, you introduce that person to other important people in your life.  That's how a strong partnership and romantic relationship works.

[boltnrun]

31 minutes ago, Spillevinken said:

That is also my fear. It would have been good to see if someone in this thread would give me some perspective to everyone of your negative opinion about this relationship and what I should do.

I can't say what you "should" do. All I can do is assure you she will continue to exclude you from her social life and prevent you from knowing her friends and associates.

And I strongly recommend you do not follow through with having a child with this woman unless you're willing to be essentially a single father who still has to pay her child support. 

[Spillevinken]

3 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I can't say what you "should" do. All I can do is assure you she will continue to exclude you from her social life and prevent you from knowing her friends and associates.

And I strongly recommend you do not follow through with having a child with this woman unless you're willing to be essentially a single father who still has to pay her child support. 

Well, I cant say that I think that you are wrong. But what if, that is what is haunting me and I have already accepted that I probabably never will meet these friends. But from there also extend this to male friends and god know what, that is too much.  I know, I am stupid but I still do appreciate all of you who write to me! Thank you very much! I will concider everything what you write.

[boltnrun]

You're not stupid. You're just allowing fear to dictate your life. And I can assure you, that never turns out well.

If you can overcome your fear you could actually find a good relationship with a nice, decent woman. 

[reinventmyself]

37 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

You're not stupid. You're just allowing fear to dictate your life. And I can assure you, that never turns out well.

 

I agree.  Denial is also a beast.  

You mentioned the time invested. But this is a case of diminished returns.  At some point you recognize it for what it is and you cut your losses.

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, Spillevinken said:

 she wrote that it would be superfun to have a drink with him. She also said that she would get back to him when she is drinking again and sent a smile.

Even though you discussed feelings and thoughts about drinking and opposite sex friends, it seems like she wants an open relationship.

Unfortunately this makes you incompatible and is causing stress and distrust. You'll have to consider if you really want a future with her and if this is the right woman/relationship for you.