Is it really THAT hard to apologize???

[Cherylyn]

It's only hard to apologize when your ego is inflated. It's a form of narcissism not to apologize because the perpetrator feels superior to you.  They have this grandiose sense of feeling more important than you are.  It's a very smug,  arrogant attitude towards you.  You don't matter.  They feel a sense of entitlement and it's a signal to you that they're demonstrating denial to you.  If they have a conscience, deep down inside, they know they're at fault yet they're too prideful to admit their blunder(s) much less apologize to anyone including you.  They don't want to be perceived as fallible so they keep moving forward as they step on a lot of toes along the way. 

Then there are those who truly feel they've done absolutely nothing wrong and if they've disrespected you, it's YOUR problem, NOT theirs.  You are the one with issues, not they.  If you feel bitter and resentful regarding this slight and if you attempt to express your disdain, then the perpetrator turns it around on you by accusing you of being immature, holding grudges and stewing as you continue living your sad, unproductive life.  Note it's typical gaslighting which is deflecting and changing your perception of the facts. 

Total disregard for your feelings is called lacking empathy. 

In the past,  I've worked with coworkers who've never apologized.  Tolerating and enduring these types of disgusting behaviors is part of earning your paycheck. 

All you can do is excel and let your work speak for itself.  Or, if you can afford it someday, leave for better opportunities and hopefully work with moral employees.  Fortunately, my current work environment is very respectful and I wish the same for you @boltnrun.

I don't trust those who are "off" meaning those who are unkind and inconsiderate.  Distrust is a way to protect yourself because you'll tread lightly and cautiously.  Once bitten,  twice shy.  Fool me once shame on you,  fool me twice,  shame on me. 

How hard is it to apologize?  This question is universal and applies to anyone whether coworkers or someone else outside the workplace.  People are people wherever you go. 

 

[boltnrun]

I love my job. 99.999% of the people there are wonderful. It pays very well and allows me to work from home which is fantastic.  I won't and don't want to leave over this one incident.

This woman doesn't work in my department, so my interactions with her are very minimal... probably less than five times over the past two years. 

I don't believe this woman is "immoral". I believe she reacted poorly to stress. I haven't heard that she stepped on others to get into her position. I honestly think she just caved under pressure. This does not excuse what she did, but it doesn't seem to be a pattern. At least from what I've experienced. 

I am not going to let this sour me. If this is a one time thing then as far as I'm concerned if it never happens again, it's a closed issue.

I was more curious as to why some people think it's practically a fate worse than death to admit they're wrong or to apologize. My brother said it's "hard" for some people to apologize but it's not hard for me! I guess it's just one of those things I'll never understand because it's not the way I operate.

[lostandhurt]

Obviously this particular manager is threatened by your quality and quantity of work and so they thought they could knock you down a notch in front of everyone.  When it blew up in their face it was more than a simple mistake that needs to be apologized for, now the opposite of what they wanted has happened.  You look good and they look like a clown.

 These type of people try and build themselves up on the mistakes of others and it is a clear sign of being insecure.  I would guess they are the worst manager in the company and they know it.

Should you receive an apology with everyone cc'd like the original email?  Yes you should.  Should your manager go have a talk with this other manager and set them straight?  Yes but don't hold your breath.

There is this Kumbaya thing going around where management doesn't want to make other management look bad so they expect the workers to take crap off others just to keep the peace and make it look like everything is perfect to the CEO.

  Play the long game and be smart. I gave some management above me grey hair over the years 😁

Lost

[boltnrun]

I appreciate the support. But I'm not ready to conclude this manager is an evil, immoral, narcissistic person or that she's the worst manager in the entire company based on this one upsetting incident. If it was a pattern, yes. But this happened one time, yesterday. 

I was upset when I wrote the OP. I still feel she handled the situation poorly. She could have gotten the information in any number of different ways that didn't consist of copying a half dozen others including my manager. I do believe her goal was for my manager to think I had made some egregious error that halted production. I do think she expected him to discipline me. I do still think an apology and a "thank you" was in order when I made it clear the error was not mine and I corrected it. But I can't cast aspersions on her character or her overall skills as a manager based on one poorly thought out action. 

It would be great if I signed in on Monday and an apology email was in my in box, or if she approached me in person to say she was wrong to assume I hadn't done my job properly and for getting my manager involved. But I'm not expecting that to happen, and I won't hold a grudge if it doesn't. 

[Cherylyn]

2 hours ago, boltnrun said:

I was more curious as to why some people think it's practically a fate worse than death to admit they're wrong or to apologize. My brother said it's "hard" for some people to apologize but it's not hard for me! I guess it's just one of those things I'll never understand because it's not the way I operate.

It's not hard for you to apologize because you have it in you to "do the right thing" whereas it's simply not part of other people's DNA.  They don't place themselves in other people's shoes, that's why.  They do not feel for others.  It's all about them ALWAYS.  It's a very selfish way to act. 

You don't operate this way but other people have no qualms never apologizing because this is how they are.  It's their ingrained habit. 

It's "easy" not to apologize because they always get away with it.  They get away with it because there are no harsh consequences.  Hence, perpetrators think:  "Why fix what isn't broken?" 

I've had people lie to me yet never apologized.  We move on but here's the new dynamic:  I deliberately enforce boundaries.  While I remain civil, I'm not as nice nor trusting anymore because it's only a matter of time before they do it again in one form or another. 

I've heard and seen it all as I've been around the block a few times in this thing called life.  Nothing surprises me anymore.

[catfeeder]

On 2/10/2023 at 3:26 PM, boltnrun said:

I would like it if he would tell this other manager something like "Hey, it might be better if you do some research before you send those kind of emails. My employee wasn't responsible for that error and your email made it look like she's not doing her job."

Hi Bolt! Writing before reading any responses that might influence me. While the above might seem like a boss having your back, it would be a dead-horse kick. You already made small work of cleaning this up, so no need for overkill.

Quote

So my question is, does anyone think apologizing and/or admitting you were wrong is really that excruciatingly painful? If so, why?

As I've matured, no, apologizing is a natural part of the territory, but when I was younger and insecure? Hell, I couldn't even imagine it. I hid behind a false bravado of someone too fragile to fall.

There was something 'wrong' with me. Imagine walking around with the fear that you'll be discovered at any moment as an impostor. I think the more a person points fingers at others in blame, the bigger such fears motivate that behavior. 

Quote

And is it appropriate for someone to do what this manager did and then not send any kind of response acknowledging they made an error or should have asked questions before making accusations?

It was never appropriate for her to send that message in the first place. Everyone cc'd on it already knows that. The sender humiliated herself right in front of her chosen audience.

Even if you didn't have a response that mopped the floor with her, most people are clear that sending an accusatory message in front of others only speaks loudly of one's own effed-up-ness, much less a lack of professionalism.

This may be why your boss would underplay it. It's kind of like pointing out that the drunk at the Christmas party who made a scene was inappropriate.

[Batya33]

I don't think finding it hard to apologize -how, the timing, what to say, if it's necessary - makes someone a narcissist.  Depends on the people involved, the mistake that was made, the timing, the context.  The person might fear losing his/her job if he/she apologizes, the apology not being accepted, etc.  Those fears don't make a person a narcissist but it makes the apology harder. It might be in the person's DNA to apologize and the person might be a very thoughtful, empathetic person and yet the person still finds it difficult to face his or her mistake and communicate that failure to another person. 

The proof is in the pudding - if the person provides a genuine apology I would not judge the person for finding it stressful or difficult (if I knew this to be the case).  If the person chooses not to apologize because "it's too hard" I still wouldn't assume instability or a disorder -it's a bad choice, it's often a selfish choice -but I'd need to know more, still.

I often do not get apologies from dog owners who let their dogs run off the leash and run up to me or run fast towards me which often is scary for me. 

They don't feel like abiding by leash laws and they don't care whether they've scared or annoyed a person who is having to stop walking on a sidewalk or a path and figure out how to navigate a dog running like mad right up to them.  I just figure they assume they're entitled to have the path to themselves including their pets by extension and everyone else should accommodate.  Narcissistic? I mean I don't think so.  

I have felt entitled to apologies from people who are late and give a dismissive and lame excuse as their 'apology" with no real apology for wasting my time or holding up a reservation "we don't seat complete parties."  

That you find it easy doesn't mean others do and that's ok.  I agree with you that you shouldn't assume the worst.

 

[Cherylyn]

Apologies are a relief to receive and amends can heal a soul.  However,  in my experience, apologies are rare and not easily dispensed.  It's far more convenient not to apologize because it requires the least amount of effort and care.  However, I don't expect apologies anymore.  If someone apologizes, great.  If they don't, I can resume communication with them.  The caveat being my impression of them isn't good anymore.  For the sake of a paycheck or other unavoidable situations, remaining civil is possible but I don't respect nor admire them anymore.  I draw the line there. 

I'm so accustomed to "normal" expectations in society.  If anyone is humble, gracious and sincere, I wait over time for them to build their track record before I'm convinced that's who they really are because so many people pretend to be initially good when they're "on" yet they show their true (disdainful) colors as you get to know them better.  I'm not shocked nor surprised.  I'm rather prepared either way actually. 

 

[mylolita]

Afternoon Bolt,

What a low grade move! Part of working life, ohhh the dreaded cc'ing etiquette and passive aggressive or out right war via work place e-mail! Petty, and reminds you of the school yard.

I would pity her if anything, not say a thing and let it roll off your back. Don't let it jade you. Have a great day Monday and carry on with your work at the high standard you have. Success and competence speaks for itself, there's no need to defend yourself. But yes, she should have apologised of course.

As Cherylyn has mentioned, peoples egos are fragile, and a lot of people have a hard time saying "I was wrong", especially when they are "above" or supposed to know more or help "run the show" or whatever else it is. They fear a telling off as well. They fear an apology is also an admission of fault and "can't do my job". This type of behaviour, in my opinion,  gets karma retribution down the line. As cat feeder has also mentioned, the other colleagues cc'd in that e-mail will be thinking the same thing.

Don't lose your optimistic attitude towards people or lose heart at work. I get the impression you really enjoy your job! This is just a silly blip from daft management and someone being malicious. 

I remember all the office politics back in the day - ahhh! LOL! 

Can I say, just a general, run of the mill IMBECILE! And one that can't admit when they are wrong, or say sorry! 


x

 

[mylolita]

Can I also add? 

My brief experience of these things are, the behaviour (if she is being malicious with intent) will bite her in the butt soon enough, or, you may get a "form of" apology in the future. By this I mean, they might not say the exact word, but an olive branch of submission on her part might be offered. Like, "Do you want to go grab a coffee tomorrow lunch with me?" or a compliment, or they might do a good turn and help you at work. Then things level out and it can be forgotten, if it's just the one time.

That sometimes happens. It's easier on some peoples egos to offer something, instead of an outright apology. Whether it's overly kind words next week, speaking highly of you to others, or getting you a coffee, whatever it might be. I've seen and experienced that happen before. It's a kind of apology in its self, or an act of "can we forget that happened?"

Just speculating. 

It's very admirable that you don't write her off because of this. I have jumped to the wrong conclusions in my work past when someone acted out and judged them and held a bad feeling towards them, and then I have found, strangely, those people after half a year are opening up and becoming one of your close work mates. Things can go in all sorts of directions. 

I once had a recruiter pop off at me (it was my job to organise all the hospitality events, for clients and staff) and this was Christmas so, ding dong, everyone loses their heads. And everyone had decided on a set day, and this woman who I always got bad vibes from anyway, stormed up to my desk, slammed her paperwork on top and said, "Thanks a f*cking LOT for considering ME! This day DOESN'T SUIT ME AND YOU KNOW THIS! Thanks A LOT." (It was dramatic where I worked, f bombs all day long).

I just said I'm going with the majority, I can't please everyone, not everyone can make every which day?! She left really peeved. A few months later, she offered me a lift back from work when my car was in for an MOT. She told me she was so sorry about the time she shouted at me. That she is a single mother and was stressed and never got out, and had been looking forward to the office party.

I never expected it from her, and then two years later when I left, she hugged me and kept in touch. We even ended up having a laugh at work after that.

Things do turn round sometimes. 

Sometimes people have bad days as well.

x

[boltnrun]

I don't work in the office (working remotely) so she and I wouldn't have an opportunity to have coffee together.  I'm kind of expecting her to behave as though this incident never happened.  OK.  As long as she doesn't come at me again I'll just put it in my back pocket.  I mean, I did get the chance to demonstrate that I do my job correctly in front of a lot of people, right? 😆

At my previous job there was a man who had a notorious reputation for being very difficult.  One time he had one of his employees ask me and the safety representative to allow some of his people to do something that was against company safety policy.  Both the safety representative and I said we couldn't allow that to happen.  A little while later this guy comes at me with guns blazing.  I'll never forget that, included in the insults he hurled at me, he said "Your brain doesn't know how to process information."  Um, really?  I responded "D, please do not speak to me that way."  He kept literally shouting insults and after each one I repeated "D, please do not speak to me that way."  After he stormed off I went directly to my manager and reported him.  My manager obviously didn't want to deal with it but he at least was the type to have our backs.  I have no idea what he said to that guy, but literally 30 minutes later he came to me and in summary said "I apologize.  I was wrong.  There was no need for me to say the things I said.  We have a staffing issue today but that's no reason to go off on you" and he put out his hand.  I shook his hand and said "I appreciate that, it means a lot.  Thank you."  And it was a closed issue because he was mature enough to apologize and say he was wrong.  And going forward he and I never had any issues.  Of course that was a much more extreme situation.  

One thing I have vowed to never do is take my bad day out on other people.  I don't do that as a parent and I never did as a manager.  It's totally unnecessary.

[Batya33]

I have had two experiences I can remember that went like this:  Person A (in one case a classmate who worked with me on a school related activity, other case a person who worked for the company in a file room) was really nasty to me.  A few years later in both cases the person ended up interviewing at my next company -in one case -actually with a group including me and in the other case I saw the person in the lobby area of my then company.  In one case I said something. In the other case I either was prepared to or I did but was told the person lacked the qualifications anyway.  That person also saw me that day in the lobby.  Sometimes karma works out.  

[Cherylyn]

There is an old saying about "forgive and forget."  However, I never forget anything.  I have several criteria for transgressors.  If I'm not slighted again and if I sense their behavior had improved, I tend to let it pass and have a "wait and see" attitude.  My trust in the perpetrator isn't 100% there but if they don't test me sorely again and if I observe genuine effort to do better, then it's better than nothing and I'll take what I can get.  However, this is not to say that dynamics will ever return to a more innocent (naive) time within me.  I tend to tread lightly because based upon any negative experiences with said person,  I know it's only a matter of time when the perpetrator has the propensity to disrespect me again.  I'm on my guard in order to protect myself. I won't feel as offended as I've felt in the past because I'm ready for any alarming scenario thrown my way.  I'm more careful with anyone whose character is put into question.  Red flags in my brain are here to stay which is a good thing because it teaches me how to navigate myself more shrewdly.  I'm in full on survival mode. 

In the past, I felt bitter and resentful regarding certain people who've wronged me.  Nowadays, I turn it around and think a different way.  Nowadays, I'm actually grateful  whenever anyone demonstrates their true (disdainful) colors to me.  I learn from negative experiences and become smarter when it comes to dealing with people or if I can afford it, I'll cut them off permanently.  To me,  bad experiences were not all in vain.  I use it as a tool and great learning experience. 

To me, what's worse is deception.  At least with some people, what you see is what you get.  The real scariest people are those who wear a mask as they manipulate you unbeknownst to you.  Those are the ones whom you really have look out for because they're a sneaky and tricky lot until you're finally onto them and the jig is up.

[tattoobunnie]

I think you may also be reading too much into the email.  How was it demanding?  Did it say, "why didn't you finish it?" OR "Why wasn't it finished?"  The latter wouldn't need an apology, since they aren't wondering why you didn't do it, more like, "I need to know the status of this project."

Speaking as a boss; they asked a question. You fixed a project now in your department, and answered the question.  Why would they apologize?  It could also be what you translated as demanding was really an inquire and need to know.

[Batya33]

On 2/10/2023 at 3:26 PM, boltnrun said:

Well, it turns out that particular assignment took place before I joined the company. So I replied that it happened before I was hired and I'm not sure why it wasn't done, but that I had gone ahead and corrected it.

Tattoobunnie - Bolt went out of her way to correct an error and she hadn't done the project in the first place -so she was accused about a project she'd had no involvement in plus she went the extra mile -and silence as far as an apology for accusing her of a mistake.

[mylolita]

23 hours ago, boltnrun said:

I don't work in the office (working remotely) so she and I wouldn't have an opportunity to have coffee together.  I'm kind of expecting her to behave as though this incident never happened.  OK.  As long as she doesn't come at me again I'll just put it in my back pocket.  I mean, I did get the chance to demonstrate that I do my job correctly in front of a lot of people, right? 😆

At my previous job there was a man who had a notorious reputation for being very difficult.  One time he had one of his employees ask me and the safety representative to allow some of his people to do something that was against company safety policy.  Both the safety representative and I said we couldn't allow that to happen.  A little while later this guy comes at me with guns blazing.  I'll never forget that, included in the insults he hurled at me, he said "Your brain doesn't know how to process information."  Um, really?  I responded "D, please do not speak to me that way."  He kept literally shouting insults and after each one I repeated "D, please do not speak to me that way."  After he stormed off I went directly to my manager and reported him.  My manager obviously didn't want to deal with it but he at least was the type to have our backs.  I have no idea what he said to that guy, but literally 30 minutes later he came to me and in summary said "I apologize.  I was wrong.  There was no need for me to say the things I said.  We have a staffing issue today but that's no reason to go off on you" and he put out his hand.  I shook his hand and said "I appreciate that, it means a lot.  Thank you."  And it was a closed issue because he was mature enough to apologize and say he was wrong.  And going forward he and I never had any issues.  Of course that was a much more extreme situation.  

One thing I have vowed to never do is take my bad day out on other people.  I don't do that as a parent and I never did as a manager.  It's totally unnecessary.

Ah! 

One of the pitfalls of the new remote working norm! Things can get misconstrued when typed in e-mails and not in person (not that this happened in your case!) and also, people are more likely to say harsh, critical and mean things when they are not face to face with you!

And it is a very noble trait to not take your mood worries or stressors out on other people, Bolt. I wish I could say I was the same, but I can tell when I do this (it's mostly directed at The Husband - I know I know) and on the theme of apologising, it has to be done, but people only take so much.

See how it plays out over the following months like you say - ya never know! Nothing stranger than human behaviour!

x

[boltnrun]

It's worse being remote in this situation because if it was in person no way would she have rounded up those six people (and I just today realized she had copied the GENERAL MANAGER on that email!), brought them to my office and demanded to know why this particular task hadn't been done. I'm imagining her going to all their offices and saying "I need you all to come with me to Boltnrun's office so I can ask her why she didn't do this part of the task." That's funny. 

Anyway, it's done, nothing seems to have come of it. 

I'll just keep apologizing when it's warranted and if others choose not to, oh well, so be it.

[Betterwithout]

Hi bolt,

Been there with those emails involving many people in the CC line.  Hate it, along with the finger pointing and throwing others under the bus...makes me want to leave the corporate world all together!
working from home has some pros and cons that's for sure.

I have run into many people that don't apologize.  I guess they see it as a hit to the ego or diminishes their worth somehow, especially in leadership roles.  I openly and often apologize but that comes with self-awareness.
My own wife rarely apologizes and it's frustrating AF.    But I blame her Dad for passing it on, since he also doesn't apologize.  

Hopefully things smooth over soon for you.

[Cherylyn]

People who refuse to apologize don't want to be perceived as flawed.  They dare not ruin their image of being exemplary.  Or, they're in denial mode and you have to accept them as is or make your exit if you can afford it.  Often times, you can't because you need to earn your paycheck.  Or, they're hoping you'll forget lack of integrity and continue marching forward as if the slight never happened. 

Even though apologies are few and far between,  I respect people more whenever they're very humble and sincerely apologize because they care about your feelings and treat you as if you matter.  They're willing to make amends and calm your affronts because you matter and they want to smooth any hard feelings so both of you can heal and move forward.  In an ideal world, an apologetic scenario would end your day with satisfactory and appreciative peace within your mind.

For those who don't apologize nor will they ever,  I can resume a professional relationship because I need to eat.  However, it doesn't mean I'll respect and admire them anymore.  For those whom I can afford to eliminate from my life, I do just that and be done with them permanently.  I don't engage in a war of words.  I simply leave and surround myself with people who know how to behave like decent, very honorable human beings. 

[Cherylyn]

It's so easy not to apologize because there are no consequences.  That's the crux of the matter.  People get away with any behavior they wish because there is no price to pay. 

For my situation, I was called very accusatory names (slanderous / loose cannon / liar).  I forgave the first two offenses.  Then the third zinger was thrown at my face.  This time there are consequences.  I no longer work like an unpaid servant for said person's parties, no longer do a ton of cooking for said person, don't spend any money on gifts nor attend occasions, no longer sew gifts for this person and no more gravy train for her from me.  I've since pumped the brakes and my former generosity came to a screeching halt.  I decline invitations.  This person is exasperated due to my newfound empowerment.  Much to her chagrin, my loyal group followed suit and now she's left with a lot of collateral damage.  Her kids don't get to socialize with my kids.  My in-laws no longer socialize with my relatives. 

Will an apology ever be forthcoming?  No, because she'll never take responsibility as usual.  Therefore, harsh consequences and continued collateral damage is my way of saying, "You can't get away with it.  You will pay in other ways."  She's finding out that retaliation is a very hard pill to swallow. 

Whenever there are punishments, you won't necessarily receive an apology.  However, with punishments, many times, the perpetrator will adjust and become more careful not to say nor write anything inappropriate because now they finally realize there is a cost for their bad behaviors. 

My approach is also to behave passive aggressively.  I've never engaged in a war of words.  I've left.  My message to the perpetrator is this:  "I don't want you in my life anymore and everyone whom we mutually know is on my side."  <==That's collateral damage.  No more co-mingling. 

[boltnrun]

One of the engineering managers emailed me yesterday asking me to do something that was actually incorrect. She also copied my manager (What is up with all this copying my manager? I do not have a reputation of not getting my work done so it's puzzling...) I tactfully explained that I had done the correct thing and provided screen shots and backup. This morning I had an email from her thanking me for the information and for providing the backup. There, that wasn't so hard! And as far as I know she survived 😆

[Cherylyn]

Aside from perpetrators always escaping punishment, they lack empathy.  They don't place themselves in other people's shoes.  They lack emotional intelligence.  If there's no punishment, they continue doing what they do which is commit affronts.   They get away with it because they can.  They will continue doing whatever they wish and NEVER apologize because there are no harsh consequences. 

With a work situation, you need to eat so you endure and tolerate transgressions.

In other situations, if I must cross paths with people whom I do not like, respect, admire or distrust, I enforce boundaries with them.  I'm polite yet keep them at a permanent frosty distance. 

If I can afford to eliminate certain people from my life,  I do just that.  I don't want to be with them anymore so we lead separate, very peaceful lives.  It works. 

 

[boltnrun]

Like I said, that engineer thanked me. It wasn't another issue with someone not apologizing. 

[Cherylyn]

3 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Like I said, that engineer thanked me. It wasn't another issue with someone not apologizing. 

I was referring to human nature and human psychology and why it's easier not to apologize which can apply to anyone in society; not just the work environment. 

[jacongeller]

Yes, sometimes it can be difficult to apologize, especially when we feel like we have been wronged or hurt. However, it is important to remember that apologizing can help us to repair relationships and show humility.