Depressed SO, Feeling Overwhelmed...

[MissCanuck]

1 hour ago, Cynder said:

There are mental health issues at play here, though.  It's not like he's just being a jerk.  I'm not someone who runs away when things aren't perfect, either. 

This doesn't mean he is right person for you, though. 

There is a signficant difference between not being perfect, and being plain detrimental to your own well-being and happiness. 

[Jaunty]

You can give yourself permission to leave a relationship if you feel it's detrimental to your quality of life or well being.  

I'm not telling you you need to leave it; simply that in the interests of good self-care, you can allow yourself permission to choose that.  Maybe you won't choose it.

It took me a long time to realize that I was not "bad" if I did choose to let some people go.     I'm a recovering addict.  Several people I've loved deeply had to be out of my life in order for me to take care of myself well.   That was very difficult.  

 

[Cynder]

I really hope all my updates on this thread aren't pissing anyone off.  This thread has become my outlet for the time being about this situation. 

Him and I had a really deep conversation tonight.  He was talking about what it's like being in survival mode all the time, etc.  He really opened up to me about a lot of stuff. 

This is another reason I am feeling optimistic... we are having actual conversations again as opposed to me asking how he's doing and getting a one or two word answer about how much life sucks. 

We started off talking about cleaning house.  I have done a lot of cleaning today and I was telling him I've been trying to paint today and it's just not happening.  But then I said, "I did a good amount of cleaning today though.  So there's that." 

He sent me a pic of his house and said, "Well good for you.  At least your house doesn't look like this." 

I told him it won't always look like that, and that we'll clean it. 

He told me he misses me and that he feels like he has so little to give right now, and that he hates himself for how he has been lately. 

I told him not to hate himself.  he is doing what he can and he is going through a lot. 

He was talking about being in constant survival mode and not even wanting to survive.  I told him I know how that feels. I've wished for death for most of my adult life.  Instead of saying, "No, you shouldn't feel that way.  You should feel like this..." I just listened and let him say whatever he wanted to say. 

I have questioned this relationship lately.  And I'm pretty sure he has, too.  He said some things about how it's not fair that he can't be there for me like I am for him right now, and that relationships are supposed to be equal. 

So, I don't know what will happen.  This might be the beginning of the end.  And it sucks because I love him so much.  It's easier when someone cheats, hates me, is a jerk, etc.  When someone is everything I've ever wanted but we just can't get passed their mental health issues it's a lot more tragic. 

I guess all I can do is hope it doesn't come to that.  Lately it does seem like things are getting better.  But I don't want to get any actual hopes up. 

[Type O Negative]

I'll post more later, just wanted to say sorry that my Crow quote made you cry, didn't mean to upset you. And also to say both my husband and I have been dealing with bad  depression and resulting issues pretty much the entire almost 20 years we've been together. I get it. People who listen to the kind of music you and I (and husband) do are predominantly dark inside, to an extent. And I won't tell you to leave. '..it can't rain all the time'...

[Cynder]

1 hour ago, Type O Negative said:

I'll post more later, just wanted to say sorry that my Crow quote made you cry, didn't mean to upset you. And also to say both my husband and I have been dealing with bad  depression and resulting issues pretty much the entire almost 20 years we've been together. I get it. People who listen to the kind of music you and I (and husband) do are predominantly dark inside, to an extent. And I won't tell you to leave. '..it can't rain all the time'...

It's not even that it upset me.  It just made me really emotional.  I tell him it can't rain all the time a lot when we are texting. 

I really do think some people just aren't supposed to be happy.  My life has been absolute misery from childhood on.  The happiest I've ever been was the first 6 months of this relationship.  And it's not even just because of him.  My life was just going in the right direction and I had everything I wanted.  I was so geared up for this season...  But it seems like as soon as festival season started this year, everything just started going down hill. 

I try to focus on the good things that are coming in the future. And there is even one good thing that has come out of this situation.  This whole thing has me working on my novel again, if nothing else.  Because I wrote the first half of it when I was really depressed, I couldn't get in the right headspace to work on it when I was happy.  Well, now I'm in that headspace again.  And because of my BF, I got introduced to an author who is mentoring me now and helping me work toward publishing it.  I'm not going to explain how but if it weren't for his mental health issues he wouldn't have met this author and thus neither would I. 

I do think things happen for a reason.  Of course the only good thing I can think of that came from his depression is something that benefits me.  I really hope something good comes of it for him too.  I'm sure there's something.  It would be a real waste if there wasn't. 

 

[Batya33]

As a reminder/refresher I suggest asking yourself -"what are my standards for a serious romantic relationship" and I mean your expectations as to how you need to be treated, cared for, regarded as far as your role in your partner's life.  Then I'd decide if those are being met.  And if not and if it never changed how long are you willing to stay. 

Right now he's not making any plan to see you or even any guesstimate of when he will, right now he may be having an "actual conversation" but does that sort of conversation meet your standards for a romantic relationship if that level/sort of conversation became the typical one? If you knew he would make no actual effort to see you for the next month would you wait? How about the next 6 months, the next year - figure out your boundaries and/or remind yourself of what they are.  

JMHO and I am sorry you're struggling and feeling frustrated.

[Cynder]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

As a reminder/refresher I suggest asking yourself -"what are my standards for a serious romantic relationship" and I mean your expectations as to how you need to be treated, cared for, regarded as far as your role in your partner's life.  Then I'd decide if those are being met.  And if not and if it never changed how long are you willing to stay. 

Right now he's not making any plan to see you or even any guesstimate of when he will, right now he may be having an "actual conversation" but does that sort of conversation meet your standards for a romantic relationship if that level/sort of conversation became the typical one? If you knew he would make no actual effort to see you for the next month would you wait? How about the next 6 months, the next year - figure out your boundaries and/or remind yourself of what they are.  

JMHO and I am sorry you're struggling and feeling frustrated.

I didn't repeat the whole conversation just for the sake of brevity.  But he actually did say he's going to try to come over today.  But realistically speaking he might not be able to.  He is doing some landscaping work today and usually when it comes to that type of work he goes and stays until what he needs to do is done or he's at least at a good stopping point.  And I also have a therapy appointment later on this evening.  So even though he said he would try, I know it's probably not happening. 

And there is a festival coming up that We were talking about him joining me at.  As in hanging out with me during the festival but then also spending the night at the hotel with me. 

So, I wouldn't say there is no future effort being made. 

And as a couple we have never seen a whole lot of each other.  Going a month without seeing each other happened a couple times when he was feeling completely normal too.  But we talk every day.  Not seeing each other every day worked for us.  We live an hour away from each other and gas is expensive.  We did talk a lot about how to bridge that gap, though.  We talked about me moving closer to him and the other way around.  We were leaning toward him moving close to me because I own my home and the cost of living and the crime rate is a lot lower here.  But that was also when his son was still in the picture. 

For a while there recently, we were barely even talking.  I would always have to start the conversation.  And the answers I got to any question were one or two words and really negative.  "How are you?"  "Aggravated."  "What are you up to?" "Hating everything."  "How's it going?"  "I wish I was dead."  Etc. 

Idk... to me it's a good thing that we are having real conversations again.  He told me last night that he hates himself for what he's doing to me and to his husband.  I told him instead of hating himself just focus on trying to get better. 

I'm really glad he's doing some landscaping work today because he will get some sun and some exercise. Both those things are really good for depression. 

I am not disagreeing with anything you said, however.  I have thought about how long I'm willing to wait around.  The fact that he can't exactly control what he's dealing with is a big thing for me.  He has lost three pets in the last year,  He had a friend die about 6 weeks ago.  His son disowned him about a month ago.  His MIL moved in last September (supposedly only temporarily but she's still there) and she verbally abuses him on the regular and his husband doesn't stick up for him.  That lead to him and hubby separating and him living with his sister for a few weeks, and when he lived with her they fought an awful lot and are currently not speaking either.  So I mean... a lot of things have happened.  He probably feels like he has no soft place to fall right now.

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, Cynder said:

he fact that he can't exactly control what he's dealing with is a big thing for me. 

Of course! Doesn't mean you have to be in a romantic relationship and wait for that to resume/get better.  You can be there as a friend, a human, whatever.

[Cynder]

9 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Of course! Doesn't mean you have to be in a romantic relationship and wait for that to resume/get better.  You can be there as a friend, a human, whatever.

I'm not ending it.  At least not now. 

He is back home, but that doesn't mean him and his husband worked things out.  They still aren't getting along and his husband still wants a divorce. 

He is losing everything. 

Idk... I feel old talking this way but I've seen the rise of online dating and how it's changed things.  People don't put much investment into relationships anymore because they are so easy to get into.  It seemed like when I was a kid (from what I observed anyway) two people met, got together and worked through problems when problems arose.  Now it's like, two people get together and stay together until one of them does something that slightly annoys the other one, and then it's over.  Because well, they can just go on match or okcupid and find someone else. 

I don't do online dating.  I never have.  I met my ex husband online but we didn't meet on a dating site.  We met on a local music forum.  And there was no long term buildup online either.  We talked in PMS a couple time on the forum.  And we were in the same city, so we just decided to hang out face to face one day.  But aside from that, all my relationships have been organic. 

So many people here are telling me to just end it.  There is so much more nuance to it than that.  He's not mistreating me.  He's not being a jerk.  He's just dealing with a lot of loss and bad luck all at once.  Why should I just add one more loss to the equation?  And I love him.  He isn't just a depressed person.  He's an intelligent, funny, kind, creative and thoughtful person, who happens to be depressed right now. 

I just had an appt tonight and my therapist doesn't even think I should end it.  She told me the best thing I can do right now to cope is take care of myself the best I can.  Because over the last few weeks there are things I've neglected.  I haven't eaten as healthy as I normally do.  I haven't cleaned house like I should.  I haven't been taking walks like I used to.  I've still been working out, though.  I really have no reason not to.  I'm at the gym 8+ hours a day.  But honestly, if I had to actually leave and go to the gym specifically to work out I probably wouldn't have.  She told me to take the best care of myself that I can, and to make sure I'm spending time with other people and not isolating myself. 

Sometimes I take my shoes off during my appointments because I like to sit cross legged on the couch when I'm talking to her.  And today I went in there and took off my shoes and I have two completely different socks on.  The reality is, I used to just take my socks off ant night and put them on the floor by the bed.  And then I put them on first thing in the morning before going downstairs.  Well, I stopped doing that recently because the kittens would take them and then I wouldn't be able to find them.  So I started putting them on the nightstand.  Well, now the kittens have taken just one of two pairs.  This morning I just grabbed the two that were sitting there to wear downstairs and planned on changing them.  But I forgot to change them.  I'm saying all this because it's a perfect example of how rattled I've been.  Like, yea, I haven't been taking care of myself as well as usual, and look, my socks don't even match, lol.  I even commented on that to her and she was like, "Well that's in style now.  The kids are all doing it." 

I did a lot of cleaning last night.  I plan on doing more tonight.  I also plan on taking a walk tonight.  I love going on night time walks.  There are so many old houses in my neighborhood that look so cool at night.  My house was built in the 1880s.  And most of the houses around me are about that old, too. 

I also have been writing a lot lately.  She told me to keep up with that. 

Basically she told me to not let myself get dragged down with him. 

And she also asked me about whether or not I think he has any plans to kill himself.  Which as of now I don't think he does.  He has told me he wishes he was dead, but has no intentions to try it.  And I know how that is, too.  They are two different things.  I've wished for death a lot.  I've only considered suicide and planned to do it once.  They are two completely different headspaces. 

So, that is the situation as of now. 

We also talked about

 

[Cynder]

We talked again tonight.  It was another seemingly normal conversation.  Last night when he sent me a pic of his room and how messy it is, I called back to that tonight and sent him a pic of my messy office.  I said something like, "See, my office is just as bad as your room."  The "office" hasn't actually been set up yet.  That room has a beautiful desk in it.  But it's full of boxes of books, boxes full of tax papers and other business paperwork, etc.  It's really cluttered and has been kind of treated like a catch-all room since I moved in here.  I want to clean it out and actually make it an office. 

But anyway we talked about cleaning, and I told him I was going for a night walk later. 

When I was walking I took some pics and video of the moon because it's really pretty tonight,  I sent those to him and he asked me if I enjoyed my walk.

The thing that stuck out to me tonight though, was this.  Since I am trying to get rid of a lot of things I don't need, my ex left a cot here.  It's one of those heavy duty camping cots.  I took a pic of it and posted it on Facebook basically asking if anyone I know wants it because if not it's going to the salvation army.  He replied saying he wants it.  Idk, I might be reading too much into this.  But I wonder if he wants it because him and his husband aren't sleeping in bed together anymore.  I told him it's his if he wants it. 

All three of us were planning on taking his son primitive camping this summer.  I love primitive camping and I never get to go anymore because none of my friends are into it.  And he was really specific about this being a primitive trip, as in, no phones or anything.  He said we would bring them in case of emergency, but not be on them unless absolutely necessary.  I was so looking forward to this.  It just sucks thinking about all the plans we had for this summer that probably won't be happening now. 

 

[Batya33]

9 hours ago, Cynder said:

I feel old talking this way but I've seen the rise of online dating and how it's changed things.  People don't put much investment into relationships anymore because they are so easy to get into.  It seemed like when I was a kid (from what I observed anyway) two people met, got together and worked through problems when problems arose.  Now it's like, two people get together and stay together until one of them does something that slightly annoys the other one, and then it's over.  Because well, they can just go on match or okcupid and find someone else. 

I think that's true of people who date online or mostly online and don't meet in person and/or are not truly serious minded. In the 70s and 80s it was the same exact thing for people whose primary way of meeting people were at bars and clubs.  I went out to many bars and clubs from age 14 well into my 20s -not to drink -to dance - but I didn't go to meet men unless it was a singles event. 

Once in a blue moon sure but that scene was a whole lot like the candy store of online sites.  Online sites, bars, clubs are candy stores for those who aren't actually serious minded and for those who are sometimes in the beginning it's like that but serious minded people tire of that super fast and then focus on using those venues as one of many ways to find a serious relationship.  

In the 80s and 90s when my friends started getting married there was the same notions about throwaway relationships, people looking for better on and on (and there were personal ads plus phone dating lines, etc).  I remember the early on divorces -friends or acquaintances who had big wedding receptions late 80s/early 90s then divorcing a couple years later. Nothing new under the sun.

Several of my friends met their spouses and long term partners through dating sites. One is with her partner since 2005 - one child - another married since 2001, two kids, our cousin married about 10 years (online site but they realized they'd gone to the same high school). Another cousin was with her husband 5 years -no divorce -she died.

My very serious minded husband met women through online sites for a couple of years early 2000s and I met many serious minded men when I met men through dating sites - some of whom I knew went on to marry other women.  So I respectfully disagree from my years of dating and experience -now we have all the proliferation of posts about this sort of notion of no one is satisfied -social media -back then it was more word of mouth so maybe social media contributes to this stereotype/cliche. 

[Batya33]

I don't think you should end your contact with him or support of him. It's up to you how you define what the "it" is you'd be ending - right now he is a person who is married in an arrangement where his husband wants out, but also is fine with you -or others -being "in" -not an arrangement I can relate to but I realize there are those who can relate to it like  yourself.  

So right now the "it" is he is a person you call your romantic partner, and he regards you as the same.  You are not sure when you will see each other next.

You are not sure if you have the camping plans and he hasn't said yes or no.  You are not sure whether the next time you speak he will want to have a normal conversation with his romantic partner or will not want to speak at all or something in between and you don't know when you will have stability in communication with a person you are not going to see in person for an indefinite period.

I respect if your standard is "he doesn't beat me/abuse me/cheat on me and I love him."  Or your standard might be "I'd feel too guilty as I knew what I was getting into even if right now this is rather extreme and I've stopped sleeping well/taking care of myself, etc"

Sounds like you're well aware of what your standard is.  His standard is right now (basing it on your description of how he's been interacting with you) -if I am sick/unstable/mentally ill I expect this person to stand by me as my romantic partner even if I can't tell her when I will see her again, even if I don't always feel up to talking to her, even if I put up concerning facebook posts I know she will see and worry about and then get calls from people who know me and trigger even more stress." 

Or his standard might be "I will accept her love, support, help and not ask her to stay as my romantic partner and therefore it's her choice to stay or go." It's not clear to me -and obviously none of my business -whether he's emphatically said he wants to be still committed to you romantically, he wants to get better in part to be a good and supportive partner to you, he wants to see you ASAP and do all the things you have planned. Has he?

And has he backed it up with actions like saying he's going to make it his business to see you in person in ___ time? Has he asked you whether that is ok with you -when you are free to see him - what you'd like to do and where you'd like to meet? I get he is suffering from depression but he is making other sorts of plans -where to live/where to sleep -and you can track his movements -

Has he bothered to make concrete plans-or at least to say "I hope to make a plan with you very soon -I need to find  a place to rest my head for the next little while and you are my top priority to see and spend time with"

I wonder what the "It" is that refers to ending "it" - in short. (No I don't entirely agree with your therapist -yes of course it's obvious you have to take care of yourself - common sense survival and yes sometimes partners forget this part when they're in the throes of this sort of situation)

Good luck and again I defer to your personal standards of staying in a relationship.

[Cynder]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

I don't think you should end your contact with him or support of him. It's up to you how you define what the "it" is you'd be ending - right now he is a person who is married in an arrangement where his husband wants out, but also is fine with you -or others -being "in" -not an arrangement I can relate to but I realize there are those who can relate to it like  yourself.  

So right now the "it" is he is a person you call your romantic partner, and he regards you as the same.  You are not sure when you will see each other next.

You are not sure if you have the camping plans and he hasn't said yes or no.  You are not sure whether the next time you speak he will want to have a normal conversation with his romantic partner or will not want to speak at all or something in between and you don't know when you will have stability in communication with a person you are not going to see in person for an indefinite period.

I respect if your standard is "he doesn't beat me/abuse me/cheat on me and I love him."  Or your standard might be "I'd feel too guilty as I knew what I was getting into even if right now this is rather extreme and I've stopped sleeping well/taking care of myself, etc"

Sounds like you're well aware of what your standard is.  His standard is right now (basing it on your description of how he's been interacting with you) -if I am sick/unstable/mentally ill I expect this person to stand by me as my romantic partner even if I can't tell her when I will see her again, even if I don't always feel up to talking to her, even if I put up concerning facebook posts I know she will see and worry about and then get calls from people who know me and trigger even more stress." 

Or his standard might be "I will accept her love, support, help and not ask her to stay as my romantic partner and therefore it's her choice to stay or go." It's not clear to me -and obviously none of my business -whether he's emphatically said he wants to be still committed to you romantically, he wants to get better in part to be a good and supportive partner to you, he wants to see you ASAP and do all the things you have planned. Has he?

And has he backed it up with actions like saying he's going to make it his business to see you in person in ___ time? Has he asked you whether that is ok with you -when you are free to see him - what you'd like to do and where you'd like to meet? I get he is suffering from depression but he is making other sorts of plans -where to live/where to sleep -and you can track his movements -

Has he bothered to make concrete plans-or at least to say "I hope to make a plan with you very soon -I need to find  a place to rest my head for the next little while and you are my top priority to see and spend time with"

I wonder what the "It" is that refers to ending "it" - in short. (No I don't entirely agree with your therapist -yes of course it's obvious you have to take care of yourself - common sense survival and yes sometimes partners forget this part when they're in the throes of this sort of situation)

Good luck and again I defer to your personal standards of staying in a relationship.

We weren't sure when we would see each other next when his mental health was fine either.  There has never been a defined schedule.  We live pretty far apart.  I work at night and sleep during the day and his work schedule is all over the place.  We both have more than one job. So our time seeing each other has always been sporadic.  (And to anyone reading this... I don't care if your brother's roommate's sister's next door neighbor's cousin is in the same situation exactly and her and her man see each other every day.  Yes, that's great for them.  That doesn't work for us.) There have been times when we saw each other twice a week.  But we've also gone over a month without seeing each other more than once.  Idk, I think people can arrange themselves however they want in a relationship.  Personally I value my alone time and I don't always want to be social.  I dated someone years ago who needed to see his partner every day and be in constant contact.  He expected me to come home from work, get dolled up and come right to his house, and stay till around midnight every day.  That was one of the biggest reasons it didn't work.  I don't want to be up anyone's ass all the time and I don't want anyone up my ass all the time either.  It has been suggested more than once that I am on the spectrum.  Maybe this has something to do with that, idk.  I just don't need a set schedule in any relationship I'm in.  And I don't need him to tell me exactly when we will see each other.  We couldn't do that when his was not depressed.  So why should I expect that from a depressed person?  I know if I was depressed and my SO was nagging me like, "So when are we seeing each other again.  I need a day and time right now!"  it would just piss me off, frankly.  

I haven't brought the camping trip up. That was something him and I talked about with his son, around March or so.  There were never any definite plans made.  Nothing was scheduled, etc.   It was a "We all should go primitive camping this summer," conversation.  We talked about different campground where we could go, etc.  But a lot of people have those conversations and the things they are talking about never happen.  Him asking about the cot just reminded me of it.  And it's likely not happening more because of his son not being around that anything else.  I know you're going to say, "But in your post it sounds like there were definite plans."  Yea, ok I'll give you that.  We talked about it but it wasn't set in stone.  So I guess the word planning shouldn't have been the word I used. That word is used colloquially a lot in that way.  I could say, "I'm planning on ordering pizza tomorrow."  But i Haven't actually looked at menus, etc, looked into who delivers, who has the best deal, etc.  Basically in that context all that means is I want pizza. 

I didn't say my standard was he doesn't beat me or cheat on me.  I mean yes, I don't want anyone who does either of those things (even though those are impossible standards to some degree because everyone cheats at some point in their life.)  I said in my last post that he is intelligent, funny, kind, creative, etc... and right now he is also depressed. 

The message from our mutual acquaintance did really upset me.  I hate when people do stuff like that.  And the fact that she didn't even try to save face or anything.  It was, "Are you ok?"  "Sure."  "Well what I really wanted to know is if he's ok?"  I hate when people do that crap.  And it's happened to me so many times.  I've had acquaintances act like they wanted to be friends/get to know me better and really all it was was them trying to get me to set them up with my roommate.  That sucked.  But it wasn't his fault.  That was all on her. 

He has told me he wants to stay committed to me.  He has said he doesn't want to break up.  He has said he wants to see me soon.  I don't dictate every single word we say to each other in this thread.  The other night he sent me a link to two "telepathy lamps" and said he wants to get them for us.  And I was talking about this book I read by a guy who spent 18 years in prison for a crime he didn't commit.  And there was a part in the book about all the things him and his wife did to stay connected.  We talked about doing some of those things. 

""I hope to make a plan with you very soon -I need to find  a place to rest my head for the next little while and you are my top priority to see and spend time with" He said something pretty similar the other night, actually. 

I bet if I came on here and said, "My SO was just diagnosed with cancer and I'm thinking of ending it."  Or if I said, "My SO was in a car accident and has a huge scar on his face now.  He's not attractive to me anymore so I'm thinking of ending it."  Everyone would be attacking me and telling me what a horrible person I am.  It's sad that in our society we are expected to leave someone with mental health issues but leaving someone because they are physically sick or because we aren't attracted to them anymore is really really bad. People will use the argument, "Well, they can't control those other things!"  Well, no one can control mental health issues either.  We need to get over thinking mental health issues are a choice.  I sure as hell would never choose to have OCD.

[Batya33]

I absolutely don't think you should end it "because he is depressed" -not what I wrote or meant.  

I don't agree with what you said at all about society -I've seen and see the opposite daily.  (Daily as in among other examples my friend with 3 young kids and her difficult mom who lives with them is caring for her husband with terminal cancer -despite their marital issues which occurred years prior to his diagnosis). Many other examples just like that. 

[Cynder]

I woke up feeling really low today.  And him and I were talking.  And I told him about the conversation I had with our mutual acquaintance the other day.  Where they were asking me if I'm ok but then said they actually wanted to know if he's ok.  I told him about it but I didn't tell him who it was. 

And his first reaction was "I'm so sorry someone did that to you."  And then he asked if the person in question was his son.  I told him no, if it was his son I wouldn't have said it was an acquaintance. 

Then he asked who it was and said he would reprimand them about it.  I told him I'm not comfortable with that because that is just sending out more negativity.  And he said, "Not if I'm gentle about it." 

But in the end I wasn't comfortable telling him the name.  I said I would think about it and possibly tell him at some point.  But I just didn't feel right telling him right now.  He told he it's ok if I don't want to tell him who it was, and then said he was going to take a nap. 

I should have just kept my mouth shut.  I was having a weak moment and I vented to him about it.  I don't know if it was wrong of me to even mention it or not. 

He was out doing yard work most of the day today.  I was really glad to hear this and I was glad to hear him say he was taking a nap.  For a while there he just wasn't doing much of anything productive and he also was barely sleeping. 

He also posted a pic of himself doing a fire performance at an event a few years ago.  I was glad to see that, too.  I would rather see pics of him doing things he's passionate about than see posts about how much he wants to die. 

I've also learned not to get too excited, though.  Not just in this situation but in every situation... just because it seems like things are getting better doesn't mean they are.  Reality is things rarely get better. 

[Batya33]

I will say -not a "weak" moment -a "moment".  You're under so much stress and talking with him -eggshells to the hilt sometimes. So of course you're not going to be the best at not let's say "oversharing" and of course that incident understandably feels so raw! cut yourself slack!

[Cynder]

He messaged me shortly after I got to work tonight and told me he is not ok but hopes he will be.  I told him, "I'm sure you will be, it just takes time."  What he said next: "I want to fix things with *husband's name.*  I want to fix things with you.  I want my son back and I want my house back."  

I told him all we can do is just try to make things better right now. And then he messaged and said that he's doing a lot of cleaning right now and so if he doesn't answer me that's why. I'm actually really glad that he's doing yard work and cleaning and stuff. The fact that he has the drive and the ambition to be productive is an improvement.

[Batya33]

6 hours ago, Cynder said:

He messaged me shortly after I got to work tonight and told me he is not ok but hopes he will be.  I told him, "I'm sure you will be, it just takes time."  What he said next: "I want to fix things with *husband's name.*  I want to fix things with you.  I want my son back and I want my house back."  

I told him all we can do is just try to make things better right now. And then he messaged and said that he's doing a lot of cleaning right now and so if he doesn't answer me that's why. I'm actually really glad that he's doing yard work and cleaning and stuff. The fact that he has the drive and the ambition to be productive is an improvement.

Not an expert by any means but that sounds promising -his motivation to get better.

[Cynder]

10 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Not an expert by any means but that sounds promising -his motivation to get better.

Yea.  I hope so. 

I've learned to not get my hopes up too much, though.  Not just in this situation but in all situations.  Life has taught me that things rarely work out and everything is more likely to get worse before it gets better. 

[Type O Negative]

Cynder,

Have they been together long, him and husband?

You're  truly genuinely not jealous?

Would he be okay with you seeing someone else as well as him?

Would you want to? 

I really am just curious, have no experience of poly relationships..

Do you know when you're next seeing him?

My twin sister lives in north Germany; I speak decent German and generally love all things German, including Rammstein..🤘

[Cynder]

2 hours ago, Type O Negative said:

Cynder,

Have they been together long, him and husband?

You're  truly genuinely not jealous?

Would he be okay with you seeing someone else as well as him?

Would you want to? 

I really am just curious, have no experience of poly relationships..

Do you know when you're next seeing him?

My twin sister lives in north Germany; I speak decent German and generally love all things German, including Rammstein..🤘

They've been married 3 years.  They were together a little over a year when they got married. 

I'm not jealous at all.  Being with a man versus being with a woman is so apples and oranges.  People who have only been with one gender don't get it.  (And I'm not assuming that about you.  I don't know what your orientation is.)  But I know he will never have the same thing with his husband that he has with me, and the other way around.  It's just not possible.  His relationship with his husband is a completely separate thing from our relationship. 

If his other partner was a woman, then I guess it would depend on the woman if I was jealous or not.  If she was someone I got bad vibes from or if she was drop dead gorgeous or whatever, I can't say I wouldn't be jealous.  He has told me that won't happen though.  He wants a male partner and a female partner and that's all.  He doesn't have any plans to bring anyone else in.

I have been sexually involved with other people since we've been together.  He knows and is fine with it.  The only thing he asks is that I don't keep it from him.  It's not like he wants every detail.  But he at least wants to be aware that it happened/is going to happen.  Like he doesn't want me going behind his back. 

We don't have sex, and he has never expected me to just be celibate.  He doesn't exactly identify as asexual.  He doesn't see sex as a loving act.  He was sexually abused as a kid and when he was an addict he sold himself for drugs.  But gender dysphoria is the biggest component to this.  He feels like he's doing it with the wrong body, etc.  He has had top surgery but downstairs he is still anatomically female. He is not sexually active with his husband right now either.  Even if he was, though, that wouldn't matter to me. 

We dated for three months before we ever even kissed on the mouth.  Kissing is about the highest level of physical intimacy he's comfortable with.  And it's a really big deal for him.  And man...  he is easily the best kisser I've ever kissed, by far.  The first time we kissed was like being a teenager all over again, but without the awkwardness.  He has pretty much ruined kissing anyone else for me, lol.  That's fine because I don't like to kiss people I'm not emotionally attached to anyway. 

All poly relationships are different.  My ex husband and I were poly too for a while and the dynamic was completely different in that relationship. 

As of now I don't know when I'm seeing him next.  But as I've said before, we didn't know when we were seeing each other when his mental health was good either.  Our works schedules are both unconventional.  We both work multiple jobs.  His work schedule is sporadic.  Like, he could have nothing going on for days, and then suddenly get a call from one of his employers saying, "Hey, this 80 year old hoarder just died.  We'll pay you a few grand to clean out their house by next week." 

He wants me to go over to Germany with him.  I hope we actually do one day.  A few years ago when I was in the Netherlands, we crossed over the German boarder for like 30 minutes, just to say we were there. We got off the train, went and got a drink at this little coffee shop, and then had to get back on the train to go back to Amsterdam. So technically I've been to Germany but I didn't really see much.  The city he grew up in is one of the oldest cities in the country.  I would love to see it and see all the places he went as a kid, etc.  He loves Rammstein, too. 

The first time he ever told me he loved me he said it in German.  He thought he was being slick, lol.  I knew what he said.  I kept it to myself though.  I also think it's so cute that he talks in his sleep in German. 

[Type O Negative]

I love all things unconventional, different, rebellious, dark. Have many thoughts re your post but too exhausted after work now to express myself eloquently, it being 00.21 in London.. 

I'm 100 percent straight, always have been, always will be. So is my husband..we wanted to go to the Pride thing in London next month (we're in the burbs) just to support the concept, what it represents etc, but it's just too much hassle for a couple of old goats like us. London is hectic at the best of times, let alone when a huge event like this is on..

Re Holland: seriously THE coolest country in Europe. We've been million times. England's a blasted police state in comparison!

Has he always known he was a bloke born in a wrong body? From when he was a kid? 

[Cynder]

30 minutes ago, Type O Negative said:

I love all things unconventional, different, rebellious, dark. Have many thoughts re your post but too exhausted after work now to express myself eloquently, it being 00.21 in London.. 

I'm 100 percent straight, always have been, always will be. So is my husband..we wanted to go to the Pride thing in London next month (we're in the burbs) just to support the concept, what it represents etc, but it's just too much hassle for a couple of old goats like us. London is hectic at the best of times, let alone when a huge event like this is on..

Re Holland: seriously THE coolest country in Europe. We've been million times. England's a blasted police state in comparison!

Has he always known he was a bloke born in a wrong body? From when he was a kid? 

I loved it in Holland.  Of everywhere my favorite place was Norway, though. 

He knew from a really young age that he was male.  He doesn't even call himself a trans man.  His reason for this is basically that he is male, regardless of what he was born as or what he has downstairs.  I've heard him explain it as, "I'm not a trans man.  I'm a man.  It's that simple." 

And he passes as male without question.  I mean, no one would ever look at him and suspect he wasn't born male.  We met in 2017 and were friends for years before he even told me.  It was in 2020 when we took a trip together when he told me.  Most people who know him now have no idea.  He keeps it on the downlow. 

And as a woman he was absolutely stunning.  (He is now, too, don't get me wrong.)  As a woman he had the kind of body most women want and most guys fantasize about.  And he has an absolutely beautiful face, too.  He told me when he started transitioning so many people made comments about how so many women would kill to look like him and he wants to look like a man. He said some of his female friends at the time were kind of hostile to him about it.  

His eyes are the same color as mine, which is so crazy because my eyes are a rare color and I've never met anyone outside my family with eyes the same color. 

[Cynder]

His son messaged me earlier.  This isn't the first time he's messaged me since they stopped speaking. But up until tonight it's always just been memes and jokes and stuff. Tonight he messaged me and we had an actual conversation. He is currently living with his boyfriend in another state. And I'm glad for him. But this kind of thing puts me in the middle. I know his dad is really worried about him, and now I don't know if I should say anything. I mean, his son trusts me. I am actually voice texting this so I'm sorry if it reads a little off.

While we were talking, I thought about telling him "Hey you should probably message your dad.  He's really worried about you. Just let him know you're okay." But I didn't. I can't even really say why I didn't. I guess I just didn't want to come off like I was nagging him.

 

[Batya33]

I think I'd simply text - hey nice to hear from you - you might want to check in with your dad at some point if possible. Something not full on just putting the notion in his head.