Depressed SO, Feeling Overwhelmed...

[Batya33]

8 minutes ago, Cynder said:

Right.  Maybe it was wrong of me to take on that role in this conversation.  I will be the first to admit I'm not perfect. 

I'm not sure where admitting lack of perfection has anything to do with this. It doesn't at least to me.  I would think it's obvious that no one is perfect and irrelevant to this situation.

[Cynder]

4 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I'm not sure where admitting lack of perfection has anything to do with this. It doesn't at least to me.  I would think it's obvious that no one is perfect and irrelevant to this situation.

Ok, well maybe what I should have said was I will admit I could have handled it differently. 

And you weren't overstepping at all. 

[Batya33]

7 minutes ago, Cynder said:

Ok, well maybe what I should have said was I will admit I could have handled it differently. 

And you weren't overstepping at all. 

I understand.  It's challenging not to feel defensive when you're making choices on how to interact with a person who has mental health issues. I hope he is feeling better today.

[Cynder]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

I understand.  It's challenging not to feel defensive when you're making choices on how to interact with a person who has mental health issues. I hope he is feeling better today.

I'm sorry I came across as defensive.  That was the direction my conversation with him went and it never felt off when it was happening, but yea, looking back on it now I probably shouldn't have given him reasons not to quit when he didn't ask. 

I also wonder if there wasn't some projection in there on my part (maybe projection isn't the right word but I don't know what else to call it.)  I would love it if someone saw something in me and offered me a job that actually meant something and made a difference.  I am not an employable person by most employers' standards.  Being disabled and not being able to drive gets me knocked out of the running pretty quick.  And when I do get hired somewhere, once people find out I'm visually impaired they see me a useless, pretty much.  They probably have a conversation amongst themselves that goes something like,  "Well, we can't fire her just for being visually impaired... what do we do?"  "Let's just keep her on until we have a reason to let her go so we can't be sued."  I've never gotten a promotion or anything at a job I've had.  When I was a QI, the position directly above me was QA.  And I knew how to do that job, to the point where they had me help train a new QA once.  They also had me fill in and do that job when a QA called off, etc.  But all the times I applied to be a QA I wasn't even considered.  It's like ok... I can train the new QA you hired off the street, and I can fill in when there's not a QA here, but I am somehow not qualified to be a QA myself.  I've just worked mostly low end jobs all my life despite being qualified for better things.  I've been seen as disposable by pretty much every employer I've ever had. I may like my current job, but I don't really want to spend the rest of my life cleaning cum off changing room walls, and mopping up diarrhea, etc.  (People are gross.)

So in the end maybe I am just envious of him.  When we were talking about the opportunity, etc, he told me they only offered him the job because he is charismatic.  I told him they must have saw something in him other than just that.  Because that kind of job doesn't necessarily require charisma.  Yes it requires people skills, empathy, etc, but charisma is a whole other thing. 

I hope he feels better today too.  I wish he could feel better every day. 

[Cynder]

Well, if anyone was wondering, he didn't quit.  He has been going to training every day this week. 

I don't know if anything I said influenced this.  He never said he was quitting when we talked.  He just said he was thinking about quitting. 

I'm spending this weekend with him, so I'm sure we will talk more about it then. 

[catfeeder]

3 hours ago, Cynder said:

Well, if anyone was wondering, he didn't quit.  He has been going to training every day this week. 

I don't know if anything I said influenced this.  He never said he was quitting when we talked.  He just said he was thinking about quitting. 

I'm spending this weekend with him, so I'm sure we will talk more about it then. 

That's great news, Cynder. I believe there's a difference between playing a devil's advice role with acquaintances versus people with whom we are intimately close. My friends and family have come to expect this from me, and it's usually what they seek when running fears and concerns by me.

With people who I don't know well enough to expect such input, I simply ask whether they would like to hear some alternate views on the subject. I've never heard any hesitation, because I don't believe that most people WANT their fears to drive their behavior. Most people don't WANT to be stuck inside a ball of negativity that limits their ability to operate in otherwise reasonable ways, and those who do may as well learn who will enable that and who will not.

You have an established relationship and trust with D, and I don't see a need for an eggshell walk 'around' any views that might challenge either his or your 'default' fears regarding a given subject.

I can appreciate D's concerns, as I have taken intensive training in substance abuse counseling, and it's no cake walk. But 'peer counseling' is actually a degree subject these days, and such training does not obligate a person to serve in specific capacities. The training can be used in a myriad of ways to support a chosen organization, a charity or a public health effort at any time after completion. Or not.

So glad you will be enjoying one another on your festival weekend, and D is lucky to have you as an intelligent and supportive partner. No doubt he knows this. EnjOy!

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, catfeeder said:

You have an established relationship and trust with D, and I don't see a need for an eggshell walk 'around' any views that might challenge either his or your 'default' fears regarding a given subject.

I see what you're saying and given his mental illness and challenges as well as their dynamic as a couple (and being newly in the romantic aspect as compared to the prior friendship) I would have erred on the side of asking if he wanted her input.  

[Cynder]

I'm writing this on my phone so hopefully it's not too sloppy.  

Him and I had an interesting conversation tonight...  his mental health being in the gutter like this has caused my mental health to decline here recently too.  

My issues aren't so much to do with anything he did or said, etc.  But more to do with my tendency to blame myself for everything that goes wrong everywhere with everyone around me.  Ever since we had our disagreement... and I'm using that word because it wasn't really an argument.  But ever since then I've just been having intrusive thoughts a lot about him being disgusted with me, him hating me, etc.  

I am trying so hard to treat this like what it is.  This is not a relationship problem.  This is OCD.  Me thinking that he hates me, etc does not make it reality.  

And tonight was the first time I really opened up to him about this.  I told him what's been going on and asked him to please not feel guilty because it's not his fault.  And I told him I feel like I'm a disappointment and a failure in his eyes.   He told me he feels like he is the one disappointing and failing me.  And he said this has really been eating at him lately because he doesn't want this relationship causing me any pain.  Because in his exact words, "Love isn't supposed to hurt." 

I have never been with anyone who understands my issues as well as he does.  Ever when we were just friends... somehow, he always knew exactly what to say, and he always got anything that was bothering me without me having to explain it.  

He insists that we are both strong enough, separately and as a couple, to get through this.  He asked if there is anything he can do to help me not feel this way.  And I honestly didn't know what to say.  I told him I don't think it's in his capacity to make me feel better because he can't make my OCD go away.  I asked him what I can do to make him feel better.  And he told me that us being so far away from each other is something that really gets to him.  What we have could be considered an LDR by some people.  We live an hour away from each other.  

I feel like this is a cruel joke in a way... I finally have someone in my life I feel more connected to than I ever have with anyone else.  But unfortunately, our mental health issues might force us apart.  

Pretty much everyone before him ended up hating me.  And honestly that is an easier ending.  When someone absolutely hates my guts, it's easier to walk away from them.  I had one ex who wanted me dead.  He was trying to hire someone to kill me.  And I heard this from multiple sources who had nothing to gain by lying.  My ex husband killed himself 5 years after we divorced and we were friends at the time.  I was one of thr last people he talked to.  His whole family hates me and blames me for his suicide.  Z absolutely despises me... and from what I've been told she did for quite a while before she even left.  

The idea of us splitting up and him still loving me is a lot sadder.  It's hard to explain why.  But I also need to remind myself that it's not like this is inevitable.  We could break up... but we could also be married one day.  There is no past or future really.  There is only right now.  And right now we are together and want to stay together.  I'm trying to be optimistic and tell the OCD beast Inside me to quiet down.  

[Batya33]

I don't think it's the right time to go there with "anything is possible" and do the black/white of "we could break up/we could get married" -that's a truism -never a guarantee etc - but I don't think now is the time to get in the weeds and actually balance for your specific situation whether the risks are worth the benefits. I'd let things sit/gel and do that for sure at some point when you're feeling more grounded. There doesn't seem to be a rush to make any decisions like that. I hope you feel better.

[Cynder]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

I don't think it's the right time to go there with "anything is possible" and do the black/white of "we could break up/we could get married" -that's a truism -never a guarantee etc - but I don't think now is the time to get in the weeds and actually balance for your specific situation whether the risks are worth the benefits. I'd let things sit/gel and do that for sure at some point when you're feeling more grounded. There doesn't seem to be a rush to make any decisions like that. I hope you feel better.

Well, it's just pointing out the two extremes.  No amount of anxiety I feel now will change the outcome either way. 

Later on tonight we are going to share a bottle of mead and color each other's hair.  Lol.  That's what I'm thinking about right now.  It's going to be a fun night.  Then tomorrow we will be at DAM.  DAM is a festival I haven't even written about much because I honestly have low expectations.  But he will be there with me and I am live painting. 

My roots are strawberry blond right now and my ends are green and magenta (faded out purple.)  I have about a dozen different colors and he really wants to color my hair.  I think I will just tell him my head is his canvas and to just go to town.  Tomorrow I might have rainbow hair.  And I'm not picky at all, so he can do whatever he wants. 

He pretty much told me I can do the same to him.  His hair is so light it will take just about any color.  So, who knows what we will turn up at DAM looking like.  🙂

I've spent way too much time trying to dissect my thoughts and emotions and figure out what exactly is causing this.  Yes, I don't like seeing him suffer, etc.  But why do I find myself constantly thinking he probably hates me, I'm failing him, etc. 

Oddly enough it reminds me of an experience I had once while on Ayahuasca.  I just remember being terrified of everything.  I was afraid to lay down because if I did  might pass out.  And I was afraid to sit up because I might puke.  And I was afraid to close my eyes because of the weird things I would see.  And I was afraid to open my eyes because everything around me looked so distorted and the walls were melting, etc.  And then, it was my inner monologue but it was almost like I didn't control this thought at all and I just said to myself, "Good Gods... WHAT are you so afraid of? You're in good company here.  You're safe.  Nothing bad will happen."  That was my moment of surrender.  A good psychedelic journey is something we are a passenger on.  You're going on the ride whether you want to or not, so all you can do is surrender to it.  

Whatever is meant to happen will happen regardless of how I feel.  So I might as well try to feel good. 

[Batya33]

Have a fun night! I don't personally relate to your perspective and views on this relationship/fate/extremes etc so it's beyond my bandwidth to respond and I defer to you -you know yourself best!

[Cynder]

I want to give an update after seeing him this weekend. 

He told me it was actually because of our conversation that he decided not to quit his training.  And the thing that really hit hard for him was me saying a lot of people would love this opportunity.  And now he is really excited about this job.  He took me and showed me the place where he's going to be working.  He got a few prints from me for his office and he really wants me to paint something for his office, too. 

We had such a good weekend together.  I colored his hair and his son's hair.  He colored my hair for me, too.  So now my hair is about 15 different colors and it looks amazing.  Just in time for Hell City. 

Yesterday after he took his husband to work we spent the whole day together.  He took me all around the city he lives in and showed me a lot of places that have meaning to him.  There's a really cool mural he painted that I got to see in person.  We live really close to one of the great lakes.  So we went to the beach for a while and walked around being goofy and taking pictures.  The beach here isn't like the beaches in Cali or any of the vacation spots people go to.  It's not swarming with people tanning and swimming, etc.  The beach here is a really calm and quiet place.  We sat on some rocks for a really long time just talking.  I took one pic of us together there that I think I might frame and give to him for his office. 

He told me he really needs to see me more.  Sometimes we go a month without seeing each other... and on a few occasions it's even been longer than that.  Now that festival season is in full swing we will see a lot more of each other.  But time away from festivals is important too.  The show we both worked at this weekend was a really fun show.  It wasn't the most lucrative show I've ever done, but it's not always about the money.  There are some shows I've done where I barely break even but had a really good time.  The venue was beautiful.  The other vendors were awesome.  The organizer is a cool lady who really pulled everything together well.  The music was phenomenal. 

But anyway, we both decided we need to make an effort to spend more time together.  Like, physically together and not just talking on the phone and texting.  Being apart for so long hurts us both.  His depression gets worse when we go a long time without seeing each other.  And my OCD starts being an issue.  My intrusive thoughts can get really bad sometimes and my OCD is very relationship-centric.  In the past with other partners I've really had a hard time with thinking about being cheated on a lot.  That's not the issue with him.  Yes, we are polyamorous, but you can still cheat in a poly relationship.  I trust him, though.  With him, the thoughts I have are more like, "He hates me.  I just know he does.  I'm a failure and a horrible girlfriend.  Why would he even want to be with me?"  Or I am just going about my day and I start thinking "He's mad at me.  I know he is.  I did something to piss him off.  I'm a terrible person."  I have a whole toolbox for stopping those thoughts.  But when we go for long periods of time without seeing each other it gets harder. 

I know there are probably people reading this thinking this is so unhealthy.  But we are both mentally unhealthy people doing the best we can. 

I have never felt seen and I've never felt like I belong anywhere (except in the festival scene.)  I am usually the outsider who people tolerate.  He is one of the few people who feels like home to me. 

[Batya33]

I'm glad your input worked -it's tricky to know when to give advice and you did the right thing! It sounds like you are comfortable with your understanding of the particular rules/conditions in your relationship so that's all that matters.  Also sounds like a great weekend and a great plan to see each other more. He seems to have a lot of insight into what works for him and what he needs to feel healthy.

[Cynder]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

He seems to have a lot of insight into what works for him and what he needs to feel healthy.

He is probably the most self aware person I've ever met.  He is the only person I know with a level of self awareness that rivals my own.  (This isn't me being arrogant.  It's just the truth.  When I was younger I had zero self awareness and now I think I overcompensate sometimes.) 

Recovered addicts usually know themselves really well.  It takes a lot of self reflection, etc, to recover from addiction (especially heroin addiction.)  I'm not saying one addiction is any worse than the others.  But some of them are harder to beat than others, etc. 

I'm so glad what I said helped him.  I try so hard to make a positive difference in the world.  But I usually do it anonymously.  I do random acts of kindness whenever I can, but I never see the results because I stay as anonymous as I can when I do them.  This wasn't a random act.  But it's really refreshing actually seeing something positive that I did for someone.  Especially considering I've supposedly ruined multiple lives.  

[Batya33]

I'm glad you both feel good about it! I can't respond to the rest- you know it would be in a vacuum.  I hope you get to see him more often!  

[Cynder]

I know this thread is ancient at this point... But it's getting hard to manage this situation alone... 

Since I last updated here, him and his husband have separated.  And his son pretty much disowned him.  I'm sure this isn't forever.  His son is 18 being a headstrong 18 year old. 

His is currently staying with a woman he calls his sister and her daughter, who he refers to as his niece.  He is estranged from most of his bio family.  He has a lot of chosen family here in the US.  That's what these people are.  His sister is awesome.  She's an author who introduced me to a professional editor who is helping me work on my novel, etc.  But all that aside, apparently her and D have gotten into it a few times since he's been staying with her.  And now I am under the impression he isn't going to be staying there much longer.  Just certain things he's said.  He made a comment to me about being "In between places" soon.  And he has told me they've gotten into some pretty heated arguments about housework, money, etc.  Sometimes you don't really know someone unless you live with them.  Not saying either of them are in the wrong... just two strong personalities in a small space. 

But, a few nights ago, he lost another skunk.  And that seems to be when the switch really flipped.  He was depressed, but now it's gotten to the point where I really wish he would just go check himself into the hospital. 

He has posted on Facebook a few times about losing two pets in a year and saying things like, "I wish I could join them." 

Earlier today this conversation took place between us.  I am paraphrasing it to keep it simple...  but this is pretty accurate even then. 

Me:  I was really worried about you last night because of what you were posting. 

Him:  I'm still not well.

Me:  I know.  But when you say you want to go be with dead pets and then go silent for a while, it's really scary. 

Him: I do want to go be with them though.

Me:  What about the ones who are still alive who depend on you?  What about me and (husband)?  We would both be devastated if we lost you.  And (son) and (whole list of friends.)  There are so many people who love you. 

Him:  (Husband) would be happy.  And the animals would be ok. 

Me:  Ok, well what about me?  I wouldn't be happy.  And I seriously doubt (husband) would be happy.  Even if you two do split up, as someone who's ex husband died, it hit me really hard. 

Me a few minutes later:  Do you not know what to say?

Ok, I hope everyone knows I wasn't trying to nag him.  I was really trying to get a point across. 

Him:  I'm just over everything.

Me:  I get it.  I've been there.  I n September of 2021 I went to a hotel room to end my life.  You know that.  But looking back on all the things I would have missed out on, I'm so glad I didn't do it.  (Lists off things I've done since then that I'm glad I did.)  I'm serious, D, if it ever gets that bad, please call me. 

Him:  Talking doesn't make it go away or any better.

Me:  I know.  I don't really know what else I can say.  There are things you could do to make it better that aren't hard though.  Like, try to sleep more.  Functioning on 2-3 hours of sleep every day can't be good for you.  Sleeping more would make a huge difference. 

Him:  Lol...  who the hell has time to get a full night of sleep? 

Me:  Focus on your peer counselor training. 

Him:  I gave up on that. 

Me:  Why?

Him:  Because I did. 

Me:  Ok.  Well, I really don't know what else to say.  You know I am always here for you, for what it's worth.  (Sister and niece) would be upset. 

Him:  Sister doesn't care about me.  She has no use for me anymore. 

Me:  Ok, what about her daughter?  She looks up to you.

Him:  She's young.  She'll forget about me.

Me:  Earlier you said Husband would be happy.  But you ignored my other question.  What about me? 

Once again, this was really not me being a nagging girlfriend.  I just really wanted him to think about the consequences of his life ending.  Asking what about me was the only thing he couldn't justify.  And that's why I asked again.  But he also has a tendency to nope out of a conversations as soon as he gets uncomfortable.  So his response to that was, "I didn't ignore it.  I don't have the energy for this conversation.  We'll talk later." 

Me:  I'm not upset with you.  I'm just trying to get you to see your worth.  You're valuable to a lot of people.  And if you don't want to talk anymore tonight that's fine.  I just want you to know I love you and you are important to me and a lot of other people and animals. 

Him:  I love you and I appreciate that. 

We did talk a little a few hours later.  He swears he is not actually thinking about it.  And I know there is a difference between wanting to end your life and wishing you were dead.  I have a really strong anti suicide stance.  But I've wished I was dead for most of my adult life. 

So, at some point last night I messaged his husband.  I'm sure on some level this breaks some polyamory code of ethics.  But this is serious.  I asked him if they have talked lately.  I said his mental state is really starting to scare me.  And I was told they haven't spoken in three days.  

I am really starting to lose any hope of this situation getting any better.  He is not the person I've known since 2017 anymore.  I try so hard to not take any of this personally.  He has a chemical imbalance.   And on top of that his world has basically been turned upside down in the last 8 months or so.  It's just been one bad thing after another.  

And every time I think things will get better... they get worse.  I thought things would get better when he moved in with his sister.  But they didn't.  I thought things would get better when he started his peer counseling job.  But now that's not happening.  And over the last week or so before the latest pet death he seemed genuinely happier and more like the guy I fell in love with.  Then another skunk died.  This one was a rescue that he only had for about 6 weeks.  But still, the death was just one more thing he can't handle. 

I really wish he would go check himself into a hospital. 

And I feel awful for thinking this is frustrating.  I feel like I have no right to be upset about any of it.  I've tried to detach emotionally as much as I can and still be there, but not let it consume me.  But that's easier said than done.  Especially when he feels like he is losing everyone and everything that matters.  

I hate this situation.

[Batya33]

I can't imagine being in this situation. I believe my mother was to an extent when my dad was suicidal.  But he was basically compliant with therapy/meds/hospitalization when needed.  I was in the home and overheard there were times she had to convince him to go to the hospital. He didn't want to.  I don't blame him (then or now!). 

It was so hard on her because especially then - she is not a confrontational person.  At all.  (Thank goodness post-menopause she found her voice more and she uses it in such a wonderful and utterly hilarious at times -way -and not that sort of sarcastic way that's actually mean). 

So my point is - to be direct -my mom had to do this pretty much.  This was the 60s-80s.  Mom of two young girls, marriage for forever you know.  And dad was compliant to a large extent.  Always very very well-employed and a professional, retired on the somewhat earlier side in his early 70s after one more bout with hospitals plus medical condition. He'd wanted to continue on for forever/till his 80s (he lived to his early 80s).

This is how she kept him alive.  This is how she was under so much stress, had issues with blood pressure at times, probably wanted to tear her hair out.  This is why she sometimes couldn't be the best parent to us she wanted to be.  I forgive her, she is an incredible 88 year old human being having the time of her life and getting much needed time off the last 7 years since my father died.  She loved him for sure, she was committed for sure, he loved her too as much as anyone with his illnesses could! But - it took a toll and I totally get why she is living it up now (all in a positive, productive, harmless way but it's a sight to behold).

You decide what you're willing to sign up for.  No I would not abandon a person in distress.  As I've written to you in the past and others - be the person who makes sure she presents all options and resources to him - perhaps offer to make phone calls to such places on his behalf or send those irritating emails when people in distress are given the run around - which causes them more distress - but I'd bow out of calling his friends/family members/exes or anyone "personal" to him.  I am sorry for all the loss he has experienced and as you know these are losses that many people experience and people with mental illness obviously take it much harder in much more risky and serious ways.  

I don't think you were "nagging".  I bet he doesn't either! But I'd end that role that makes you concerned that you will go there with nagging - or makes you feel defensive that you could be nagging.  I'd end that sort of role or involvement.  JMHO.

[Cynder]

12 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I can't imagine being in this situation. I believe my mother was to an extent when my dad was suicidal.  But he was basically compliant with therapy/meds/hospitalization when needed.  I was in the home and overheard there were times she had to convince him to go to the hospital. He didn't want to.  I don't blame him (then or now!). 

It was so hard on her because especially then - she is not a confrontational person.  At all.  (Thank goodness post-menopause she found her voice more and she uses it in such a wonderful and utterly hilarious at times -way -and not that sort of sarcastic way that's actually mean). 

So my point is - to be direct -my mom had to do this pretty much.  This was the 60s-80s.  Mom of two young girls, marriage for forever you know.  And dad was compliant to a large extent.  Always very very well-employed and a professional, retired on the somewhat earlier side in his early 70s after one more bout with hospitals plus medical condition. He'd wanted to continue on for forever/till his 80s (he lived to his early 80s).

This is how she kept him alive.  This is how she was under so much stress, had issues with blood pressure at times, probably wanted to tear her hair out.  This is why she sometimes couldn't be the best parent to us she wanted to be.  I forgive her, she is an incredible 88 year old human being having the time of her life and getting much needed time off the last 7 years since my father died.  She loved him for sure, she was committed for sure, he loved her too as much as anyone with his illnesses could! But - it took a toll and I totally get why she is living it up now (all in a positive, productive, harmless way but it's a sight to behold).

You decide what you're willing to sign up for.  No I would not abandon a person in distress.  As I've written to you in the past and others - be the person who makes sure she presents all options and resources to him - perhaps offer to make phone calls to such places on his behalf or send those irritating emails when people in distress are given the run around - which causes them more distress - but I'd bow out of calling his friends/family members/exes or anyone "personal" to him.  I am sorry for all the loss he has experienced and as you know these are losses that many people experience and people with mental illness obviously take it much harder in much more risky and serious ways.  

I don't think you were "nagging".  I bet he doesn't either! But I'd end that role that makes you concerned that you will go there with nagging - or makes you feel defensive that you could be nagging.  I'd end that sort of role or involvement.  JMHO.

He is still going to therapy and taking his meds, thankfully.  I think if it came down to it he would go to the hospital if he was desperate enough. 

I have thought about how much I'm willing to put up with.  I feel bad admitting that.  But thoughts like, "This isn't what I signed up for, maybe it's best to just remove myself from the equation." have entered my mind.  But, at this point, I don't want to end it.  Mainly because I love him and I think the person I fell for is still there.  But also because he is losing everyone else.  

Me asking the what about me question multiple times would come off as nagging to a lot of people.  I just wanted to make sure people know I was trying to really make him see what his life ending would do.  That was the one question he didn't have some "Well, that wouldn't be that bad" answer to. 

My main objective messaging his husband was to get him help.  I figured if his husband is as worried as I am, maybe the two of us could work together to convince him to go to the hospital.  Because I really think that's what he needs.  I was really surprised and sad to see how indifferent his husband was about this. 

I am really scared for him and I just wish there was more I could do. 

[Batya33]

7 minutes ago, Cynder said:

Mainly because I love him and I think the person I fell for is still there.  But also because he is losing everyone else.  

He wouldn't lose you as a person with what I suggested and he might lose you as a person if you disrespect your own boundaries and needs to the extent you are. 

I am not surprised at all about his husband.  Their arrangement is atypical, and because it is the way his husband/now separated/viewed it and the extent of commitment and future goals might be far different -in a way that wouldn't be so if they were in a traditional marriage where the extent of commitment and future goals has sources of obective measures/understood measures - not a "we'll make it up as we go along" to the extent they seem to have. 

That is not a judgment of polyamory it's an observation particularly because for all you know how his husband/soon to be ex husband views polyamory might be far different or might have changed and you're not privvy to those sorts of conversations even if you wanted to be.  The gray areas are much more vast than in a traditional arrangement and perhaps for them the rules/boundaries/what's ok and what's not have shifted a lot in a way that is more extreme than were they in a traditional relationship.  

and you said they already were having issues way back when you started dating him.  Both of those conditions make it a much risker relationship and then when you add in his mental illness what one of the partner's reactions might be to a situation is anyone's guess whereas in a more typical arrangement the reaction might be more surprising.

[Cynder]

7 hours ago, Batya33 said:

He wouldn't lose you as a person with what I suggested and he might lose you as a person if you disrespect your own boundaries and needs to the extent you are. 

I am not surprised at all about his husband.  Their arrangement is atypical, and because it is the way his husband/now separated/viewed it and the extent of commitment and future goals might be far different -in a way that wouldn't be so if they were in a traditional marriage where the extent of commitment and future goals has sources of obective measures/understood measures - not a "we'll make it up as we go along" to the extent they seem to have. 

That is not a judgment of polyamory it's an observation particularly because for all you know how his husband/soon to be ex husband views polyamory might be far different or might have changed and you're not privvy to those sorts of conversations even if you wanted to be.  The gray areas are much more vast than in a traditional arrangement and perhaps for them the rules/boundaries/what's ok and what's not have shifted a lot in a way that is more extreme than were they in a traditional relationship.  

and you said they already were having issues way back when you started dating him.  Both of those conditions make it a much risker relationship and then when you add in his mental illness what one of the partner's reactions might be to a situation is anyone's guess whereas in a more typical arrangement the reaction might be more surprising.

Well, I've kept this quiet because I know the judgmental comments some people will make about it.  But his Mother-in-law moved in with them in September of last year.  Before some people reading this and go "Oh my god he lives at home with Mommy!!!"  There's a difference between living at home with your parents and your elderly parents living with you. 

That has been the biggest coffin nail for their marriage.  His MIL hates him and is very verbally abusive, and his husband defends her.  She started that once when I was there and I shut her down.  I was respectful but firm, I told her I'm not going to sit here and listen to her talk like that.  And she stopped.  She's been nothing but smiles and sweetness when I'm around ever since. 

I think every relationship has a make it up as you go element to it to some degree.  People change.  Circumstances change.  We have to learn to adapt and when two people are in a committed relationship they have to learn to adapt together.  In this case he just couldn't adapt to being called names and put down every day by someone he is working to support and give a home to.  I would have moved out too in that situation. 

He did post on Facebook that he feels lost today.  He acted like he is moving out of his sister's house, but he's still there, so I'm not sure what's going on with that.  He might just be there until he can find another place to live.  I've told him my door is open.  I think he doesn't want to come here because he's afraid of messing up our dynamic.  And I can see that. 

Plus I would rather get my psycho roommate out of here first. 

[Batya33]

Yes I think him moving in with you is not a great idea. I mean obviously the real issue was his partner letting his own mother treat him disrespectfully.  I don’t think the generalizations about make it up as you go etc really apply here. Of course it’s true. But the relevant question is when are the circumstances so dramatic and risky and potentially harmful that the two people decide they are dealbreakers.

I think his relationship with his husband and with you plus the circumstances of his finances and mental illness make it much much more likely to have dealbreaker type circumstances arise than in a traditional marriage or relationship   
 

And you knew that and chose to take the risk. I defer to what you chose of course and given the extremes of the situation now I shared my suggestions as to what to do next. Your choice of course.  
 

I was just messaging with a high school friend in an LTR of many years.  Two years ago he had a heart attack and resulting paralysis and brain damage from what she describes.
 

She’s decided to be his caregiver and transfers him back and forth from his wheelchair several times a day.  She’s staying with him. I support her 100% and would equally support if she chose to leave and take on more of a friendship or support role.

 

 But also they had years of a solid loving relationship before this happened. Which I am certain knowing her is of course why she stayed.

 

With your relationship you entered it knowing he had significant instability in his marriage/mental health / finances / employment. Those aspects are now much worse and at a point where especially if he lived with you you’d be his financial and mental health support especially if he is suicidal.
 In your specific situation I’d step aside from the romantic aspects and be his friend and offer help finding him help  

I defer to you as I wrote and wish you luck. 

[Type O Negative]

3 hours ago, Cynder said:

Well, I've kept this quiet because I know the judgmental comments some people will make about it.  But his Mother-in-law moved in with them in September of last year.  Before some people reading this and go "Oh my god he lives at home with Mommy!!!"  There's a difference between living at home with your parents and your elderly parents living with you. 

That has been the biggest coffin nail for their marriage.  His MIL hates him and is very verbally abusive, and his husband defends her.  She started that once when I was there and I shut her down.  I was respectful but firm, I told her I'm not going to sit here and listen to her talk like that.  And she stopped.  She's been nothing but smiles and sweetness when I'm around ever since. 

I think every relationship has a make it up as you go element to it to some degree.  People change.  Circumstances change.  We have to learn to adapt and when two people are in a committed relationship they have to learn to adapt together.  In this case he just couldn't adapt to being called names and put down every day by someone he is working to support and give a home to.  I would have moved out too in that situation. 

He did post on Facebook that he feels lost today.  He acted like he is moving out of his sister's house, but he's still there, so I'm not sure what's going on with that.  He might just be there until he can find another place to live.  I've told him my door is open.  I think he doesn't want to come here because he's afraid of messing up our dynamic.  And I can see that. 

Plus I would rather get my psycho roommate out of here first. 

Cynder,

When did you actually see him face to face last?

Oh and, we have very similar tastes in music, you and I. Bless.

And you're a brilliant writer. I've been reading your posts on here for years..

[Cynder]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

Yes I think him moving in with you is not a great idea. I mean obviously the real issue was his partner letting his own mother treat him disrespectfully.  I don’t think the generalizations about make it up as you go etc really apply here. Of course it’s true. But the relevant question is when are the circumstances so dramatic and risky and potentially harmful that the two people decide they are dealbreakers.

I think his relationship with his husband and with you plus the circumstances of his finances and mental illness make it much much more likely to have dealbreaker type circumstances arise than in a traditional marriage or relationship   
 

And you knew that and chose to take the risk. I defer to what you chose of course and given the extremes of the situation now I shared my suggestions as to what to do next. Your choice of course.  
 

I was just messaging with a high school friend in an LTR of many years.  Two years ago he had a heart attack and resulting paralysis and brain damage from what she describes.
 

She’s decided to be his caregiver and transfers him back and forth from his wheelchair several times a day.  She’s staying with him. I support her 100% and would equally support if she chose to leave and take on more of a friendship or support role.

 

 But also they had years of a solid loving relationship before this happened. Which I am certain knowing her is of course why she stayed.

 

With your relationship you entered it knowing he had significant instability in his marriage/mental health / finances / employment. Those aspects are now much worse and at a point where especially if he lived with you you’d be his financial and mental health support especially if he is suicidal.
 In your specific situation I’d step aside from the romantic aspects and be his friend and offer help finding him help  

I defer to you as I wrote and wish you luck. 

Him moving in with me wouldn't be ideal.  But I would rather he move in with me than be out on the street.  Especially with his history.  Being on the street would be a disaster waiting to happen because he would be tempted to start using again.  For me, that would be the ultimate dealbreaker.  If I found out he was using again the relationship would be over.  I would tell him he will always have my support as a friend and that I wish no ill will.  But I won't be with an addict who is using. 

I am actually really upset that he gave up on his peer counselor training.  I think that could have been the thing that brought him out of this.  And it wasn't like he was just doing the training in hopes of getting a job after he finished.  He had a job waiting for him when he finished.  There are so many people who would have loved that opportunity, and here he is just wasting it.  One of his biggest joys in life is helping people.  This was an opportunity to help people.  And the animal rescue was growing and getting a lot more attention/donations, etc.  Between a job helping people and being in charge of an organization that helps animals, he could have been living his dream. 

And there are simple things he could do that would make such a difference, but he doesn't want to do them.  Getting more sleep like I suggested and eating better would help so much.  His diet is absolute garbage.  He practically lives on fast food and Mountain Dew.  You can only get away with that for so long before there are consequences.  At his age his body isn't going to bounce back for much longer.  He's already pre-diabetic.  When I was younger in my partying days, I would go for days without sleep.  I ate junk, pop tarts and hot pockets were staples in my diet.  I drank a lot and smoked a lot of weed.  (Thank Gods I only smoked cigarettes for a short time before I gave them up because they're disgusting.)  I would down 5 hour energy shots and go to work on practically no sleep on a regular basis.  I would go out all night and then go home, change, chug a bunch of coffee and go to work regularly.  Looking back I really regret what I put my body through.  I'm so glad I woke up before it was too late and started taking care of myself. 

I don't agree that he was unstable in all those areas when I started dating him.  Our society seems to think someone has to have a 9-5, traditional 40 hour a week job before they can call themselves employed.  When we started dating he had a lot of part time/temporary jobs.  Some people prefer that.  I know if I could drive that's how I would be living too.  He had multiple security jobs at events.  He had a groundskeeper job at an office park that paid pretty well considering he only had to work at it about 10 hours a week.  He also was doing cleaning jobs and remodeling jobs for different companies as an independent contractor.  So, he worked and was financially stable when I started dating him, even if he didn't have a traditional 9-5 job.  Now he just doesn't have the mental energy to go out and line those jobs up anymore.  He also was seeing two different therapists and taking his meds on schedule, so it seemed like he had his mental health issues under control.  (But I know all the therapy and all the meds in the world don't guarantee stability in that area.  I take my meds and go to therapy, but I still have bad days, sometimes bad weeks, etc.) 

I am considering ending the romantic aspect of our relationship and just being friends.  I just don't know if that's what I want to do yet.  His son dissowned him.  His husband is on his way out.  His sister seems to be stepping away.  I just don't want to be one more person who gives up on him.  That could be the last straw. 

I want to be with him.  But I want to be with the person I started dating.  I want to be with the guy who had this quirky sense of humor and made me laugh every day, etc.

I really wish there was a way to get him to go to the hospital.  I think that's what he needs.  And I wish he would jsut go there voluntarily and check himself in before something drastic happens and he has to be dragged there against his will and put on a 5150 hold.  

[Cynder]

15 minutes ago, Type O Negative said:

Cynder,

When did you actually see him face to face last?

Oh and, we have very similar tastes in music, you and I. Bless.

And you're a brilliant writer. I've been reading your posts on here for years..

Last time I saw him face to face was about 3 weeks ago.  Going a few weeks without seeing each other is normal for us, though. 

And wow, thank you.  I've been working with a writing mentor.  I was lucky enough to get hooked up with a professional author who took me under his wing.  My novel will be in print and published within a year, if all goes according to plan.  Actually when I'm done on here I'm going to work on revising the latest chapter.  🙂

[Type O Negative]

4 minutes ago, Cynder said:

Last time I saw him face to face was about 3 weeks ago.  Going a few weeks without seeing each other is normal for us, though. 

And wow, thank you.  I've been working with a writing mentor.  I was lucky enough to get hooked up with a professional author who took me under his wing.  My novel will be in print and published within a year, if all goes according to plan.  Actually when I'm done on here I'm going to work on revising the latest chapter.  🙂

Is this how your relationship works, seeing each other once every three weeks?

What's your book's title?