ONS - Pregnancy

[MissCanuck]

OP, you will hear from her if she decides she wants financial support from you. 

That may or may not happen when the baby is born. It may happen years down the line. I wouldn't necessarily assume she will act immediately when the baby arrives. The point is, until then, there is no further need to be in communication with her. My guess is that you won't hear from her again. 

Something is off with her behaviour and choices here. The truth will eventually come out, one way or another, someday. And it may not involve you at all. 

[RKO]

2 hours ago, MissCanuck said:

OP, you will hear from her if she decides she wants financial support from you. 

That may or may not happen when the baby is born. It may happen years down the line. I wouldn't necessarily assume she will act immediately when the baby arrives. The point is, until then, there is no further need to be in communication with her. My guess is that you won't hear from her again. 

Something is off with her behaviour and choices here. The truth will eventually come out, one way or another, someday. And it may not involve you at all. 

Exactly this, as you say her behaviour is odd, what do you think her reasons were for agreeing to a paternity test now which I’d have to fund, rather than one at birth.

do you think she could be genuine in saying she doesn’t want it hanging over her during pregnancy?

[RKO]

9 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I agree with everything you wrote except that if you are the father this baby was not forced on you.  You chose to have sex and risk starting a pregnancy and potentially bringing your child into the world.  It's just how it works.  You don't get to choose under what circumstances you will be a father once you choose to have sex.  I also agree you can choose to walk away and wash your hands of this situation unless she takes legal action.  

Yes I agree with the risks of having sex but she had a choice what to do before/after that, could have said I’m not contraception (I know I should have asked too) ,  morning after pill (if she took it) an abortion (which she isn’t against) adoption.

I had no say in any of them, so I’d argue in some ways the decision has been forced on me

[RKO]

8 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Well bottom line is I think if this woman wants something from you then she needs to cooperate. Obviously it's not a relationship or even friendship so if she wants something then she needs to communicate in a civil way and be clear what she wants the arrangements to be. I think it's totally understandable she has to allow a paternity test. If for example she wanted child support it wouldn't make sense to give her money not 100% knowing you are the father. She hasn't said anything clear so far and has been giving mixed messages.

Indeed, my opinion on it all is as follows

She wants to be a mum by any means

she ideally wants to do it 100% by herself for whatever reason. (One of her friends is doing exact same)

morally she felt she had to tell me and give me an option to be involved but made it clear it’s fine if not. Hoping I’d say no.

Crapped herself when I mentioned paternity as lawfully that would give me a right to child if mine OR crapped herself when I mentioned paternity as she isn’t 100% sure who father is.

Realised because she said no to paternity test at birth that the ball was in her court and she could be blamed by people for me not being around

Offered the expensive, non legal binding pre paternity test knowing full well I wouldn’t go for it, trying to call my bluff but making her conscience better “I offered, he said no, his fault, he has to live with it”

Hoped all of the above would make me angry enough to just say whatever and leave her be.

 

of course I could be wrong but that’s how I’m seeing it

 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, RKO said:

 “I offered, he said no, his fault, he has to live with it”

Actually, she has to live with it. Let this go. You're not the father until she can prove it through DNA testing. It's really that simple. Agree she came up with the "you pay for it" thing to get you off her back.

You made a lot of mistakes offering this that and the other out of anxiety guilty trips etc. 

The good news is you don't have to keep doing that. Ignore anyone who tells you to pursue DNA testing or pay for anything or have anything to do with her .

 

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, RKO said:

Yes I agree with the risks of having sex but she had a choice what to do before/after that, could have said I’m not contraception (I know I should have asked too) ,  morning after pill (if she took it) an abortion (which she isn’t against) adoption.

I had no say in any of them, so I’d argue in some ways the decision has been forced on me

She had a choice to use contraception before.  Contraception can fail.  For me personally an abortion or morning after would not have been a choice in that situation most likely (never been in that situation or even close - had scares but where we both were ok if it meant having a baby -we'd discussed it before having sex) - - technically a choice? Sure - just like you have a choice to have a vasectomy if you felt there was a chance you'd want to have casual sex with someone you just met.

Not a choice for a woman who is not comfortable aborting.  Some ways - there are always some ways and some unfairness when it comes to this biological reality.  You can feel it is forced on you and feelings aren't facts.  

In the sex ed book my 13 year old son and I read it discussed alllllll the forms of contraception plus abstinence, plus the morning after/abortion options and made absolutely sure to make it very clear that every act of intercourse can start the creation of a baby. (I mean menopause/sterility aside).  Absolutely clear. 

The chapters on this were really long and detailed and the authors were very very adept at coming back to that fact.  It was very clear that they didn't want the readers -male or female -to believe that it was forced on them if the female chose to continue a pregnancy.  It's not fair but it's biology. This book is meant for 11 and up - for teenagers.

I know why you feel that way -I get it - and no you don't get a say in whether a woman you willingly have sex with chooses to keep a pregnancy -I'm sure there are rare exceptions and you know they do not apply here.  I'm sorry. 

What is being forced on you is her trying to force you to pay for specific sorts of tests, etc.  I'd communicate only if she reaches out first and honestly I'd communicate only with or through someone else -whether a friend, a lawyer, whoever - keep a paper trail -watch your back with her.  I don't like how she's pressuring you and how she's pressuring you -like I wrote above.  She doesn't get to pressure or harass you in this context -not with what has happened/not happened at this point.  IMHO.

[MissCanuck]

11 hours ago, RKO said:

What do you think her reasons were for agreeing to a paternity test now which I’d have to fund, rather than one at birth.

do you think she could be genuine in saying she doesn’t want it hanging over her during pregnancy?

I really have no clue anymore. 

I think she is not telling you the whole truth, in any case. 

[RKO]

14 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

I really have no clue anymore. 

I think she is not telling you the whole truth, in any case. 

I’m glad I’m not the only one thinking this 

[RKO]

Just a little update.

I happened to be on a course with a midwife today. Conversation got on to her work and I used this as an opportunity using the old “ I have a friend who’s in this position..”

Cut a long story short, using the due date given from the scan and her using reverse due date method/calculation they use in her profession (not 100% but close)she came across a positive result, the dates this woman got pregnant don’t match up with the dates we had sex. She was most likely to have conceived a from week before we had sex up to 2 days before we had sex, meaning it’s very likely she was already pregnant when we had sex…

Some hope.

I’ve not heard of the baby mother since last reported either.

[Wiseman2]

1 minute ago, RKO said:

I’ve not heard of the baby mother since last reported either.

That's good but this is forth hand guessing. It doesn't matter because she doesn't want you involved or DNA testing.

[RKO]

14 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

That's good but this is forth hand guessing. It doesn't matter because she doesn't want you involved or DNA testing.

As mentioned previously, she has NEVER said “I DONT WANT YOU INVOLVED”

[boltnrun]

4 minutes ago, RKO said:

As mentioned previously, she has NEVER said “I DONT WANT YOU INVOLVED”

On 9/7/2022 at 3:18 AM, RKO said:

she has told me I can remain anonymous and not be involved at all with the baby and no one will need to know ( I’m sure people would work it out though) and she won’t expect any help mentally or financially from me ever as she has worked out budget etc from being a single parent.

This seems like an extremely fine point. Saying you don't have to be involved vs. she doesn't want you involved.

If I wanted my child's father involved I wouldn't say he didn't have to be. 

However, given the interactions you've reported with this woman I think she was using reverse psychology on you, hoping you'd exclaim "of COURSE I want to be involved! When is the scan? And into what account should I start depositing money? I can't wait to tell my mom and all my friends!"

As for the midwife, she's getting third hand info. Plus she could probably tell you are fervently hoping the baby is not yours. 

Anyway, I would just go about your life as usual. If the woman decides she wants to take you to court you'll find out eventually. No need to worry about that now.

[RKO]

2 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

This seems like an extremely fine point. Saying you don't have to be involved vs. she doesn't want you involved.

If I wanted my child's father involved I wouldn't say he didn't have to be. 

However, given the interactions you've reported with this woman I think she was using reverse psychology on you, hoping you'd exclaim "of COURSE I want to be involved! When is the scan? And into what account should I start depositing money? I can't wait to tell my mom and all my friends!"

As for the midwife, she's getting third hand info. Plus she could probably tell you are fervently hoping the baby is not yours. 

Anyway, I would just go about your life as usual. If the woman decides she wants to take you to court you'll find out eventually. No need to worry about that now.

The midwife gave me links to online reverse due date calculators which I have used them all and got the same date range back. Providing the due date she told me was legit.

Yes perhaps there is an element of reverse psychology for sure, at several different stages of this all

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, RKO said:

As mentioned previously, she has NEVER said “I DONT WANT YOU INVOLVED”

Ok then. Scream in caps and calculate away on when she is having whoever's baby.

On 9/7/2022 at 6:18 AM, RKO said:

she won’t expect any help mentally or financially from me ever

 

[RKO]

7 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Ok then. Scream in caps and calculate away on when she is having whoever's baby.

 

But if she deep down wanted to do it alone then why tell me?

[boltnrun]

1 hour ago, RKO said:

The midwife gave me links to online reverse due date calculators which I have used them all and got the same date range back. Providing the due date she told me was legit.

Yes perhaps there is an element of reverse psychology for sure, at several different stages of this all

Those calculators are not exact. In fact, I'm fairly certain it says right on the website that they are estimates only.

My pregnancy calculations done by my doctors were always off because they were based on when they presumed I ovulated and by me reporting the first day of my last period, which was usually off by a few days. I ovulated after 9-11 days, not the "standard" 14 days. So essentially I was "more pregnant" than the calculators said.

But I can see this gives you hope. If this is what you need to calm yourself down then so be it. You will never know for sure unless and until a paternity test is done.

[Batya33]

Please with all due respect to midwives  -who delivered three of my grandnephews - for the right people midwives are the best! - there's really no such thing with the technicalities you're looking for - months -sure -of course I'd be on board -if you had sex with someone who seemed to look like she had a baby bump and/or she shared classic pregnancy symptoms like morning sickness or a penchant for odd foods/ food cravings and implied she could be pregnant -well then fine, sure - truth is she might have had sex 3 days earlier, then with you (not saying she's wrong to do that -she's an adult who obviously enjoys casual sex to some extent, as do you) - and you are the lucky daddy and guy 3 days earlier is not.  

[Wiseman2]

29 minutes ago, RKO said:

But if she deep down wanted to do it alone then why tell me?

I would take up nail biting, it seem more anxiety quelling than overdosing on preganacy calculators.

[boltnrun]

37 minutes ago, RKO said:

But if she deep down wanted to do it alone then why tell me?

 

2 hours ago, boltnrun said:

However, given the interactions you've reported with this woman I think she was using reverse psychology on you, hoping you'd exclaim "of COURSE I want to be involved! When is the scan? And into what account should I start depositing money? I can't wait to tell my mom and all my friends!"

 

[RKO]

9 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

 

 

But wiseman says she wants to do it alone he thinks and you are of the opposite opinion? 
im not sure either way

[RKO]

47 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Those calculators are not exact. In fact, I'm fairly certain it says right on the website that they are estimates only.

My pregnancy calculations done by my doctors were always off because they were based on when they presumed I ovulated and by me reporting the first day of my last period, which was usually off by a few days. I ovulated after 9-11 days, not the "standard" 14 days. So essentially I was "more pregnant" than the calculators said.

But I can see this gives you hope. If this is what you need to calm yourself down then so be it. You will never know for sure unless and until a paternity test is done.

Oh of course I know they arent an exact science at all and as you say, ovulation can be any time, but it’s just another bit of a red flag that goes along with her refusing a dna test, her changing dates of her last period, not having any idea her length of cycle and saying she was further along initially than she was.

[MissCanuck]

OP, it is pointless using online reverse calculators or even taking this midwife's advice. It is a waste of time looking for hope where they might be none at all. What good does it really do you to search for information that may be completely inaccurate? 

You already know that the only way to determine paternity is with an official DNA test at birth. Unless and until then, don't bother going on circles looking for confirmation bias. 

[boltnrun]

19 minutes ago, RKO said:

But wiseman says she wants to do it alone he thinks and you are of the opposite opinion? 
im not sure either way

And neither are we.

The only person who knows for sure is her.

You can drive yourself bonkers trying to figure out why, or whether or not you're the father, etc. But what does all this knot twisting accomplish? Does it change the way things are RIGHT NOW?

If you're this mentally and emotionally invested you may as well engage in a relationship with her and start buying things for the baby's nursery and choosing names. If that's not what you want, then try to chill. No one is being affected by your mental gymnastics and emotional turmoil except you.

[Wiseman2]

21 minutes ago, RKO said:

But wiseman says she wants to do it alone

You wrote this is a vague way. I have no idea what she wants. Remember, I did not have a drunken unprotected roll in the hay with this woman, so how would I know what she wants?🤷‍♂️

[Jaunty]

It's looking like this thread will just linger on like this the entire 9 months ... hope everything turns out well.