Dealing with disregard

[yoda1949]

What is my next move here...

I have a friend that I have literally been friends with since I was three years old.  We've drifted apart for periods of time throughout the years but there has really never been a time in my life when I didn't think of him as a friend (we're well into middle age now). 

There is a concert coming up that I mentioned to him at least six months ago and I though of him because we saw the same band when we were teenagers.  I bought the tickets and mentioned it several times since then and I got tickets to the show near where we grew up even though it would be far easier to see a show near where I currently live.  So I mentioned the show was coming up and he tells me he made plans that night to see a different band...  Which is probably the worst excuse he could have come up with.  It seems to tell me, I don't respect you enough to miss the plans I made because I either didn't bother to see when the plans I already made were or decided this new activity would be better and just waited until I pushed the issue to break the original plans.  

Several times I have been thinking of leaving the whole thing behind.  In the past few years there have been other incidents, he seems to enjoy openly blowing past boundaries.  For example he visited my house a few years back with his family and seemed to go out of his way to disrespect me and my house.  For example I generally have people take shoes off, a day or two after they originally arrived I saw he was wearing them and asked him to take them off and he openly refused being like " I don't take shoes off" and left me with a choice of me escalating things in front of his wife and kid or letting him just blow past a boundry and fairly normal request.  

All the stuff about the concert was via text and I just left him I read.. Sometimes he makes stupid jokes so i wasn't 100% sure if this was one or not but since that was a week ago I assume it wasn't.  

[Batya33]

It's unclear to me that he agreed to go with you.  And when was he supposed to pay you for his ticket? Why did you have his whole family stay with you for that long?  That's so very nice of you but a bit unusual - and I get not wanting to make a scene but I never allow shoes on in my home and I had no problem repeating that rule as needed.  I understand it was awkward.  

[Kwothe28]

He didnt seem enthusiastic about the concert in the first place so why did you bought a ticket without him confirming that he would go? You shouldnt have bought him a ticket.

Anyway, sorry, but some friendships just run its course over time. In time you go distant with some people. Whether its because infighting or just life circumstances, but you just go far from certain people sometimes. This seems like a clear case of that. You are not that close anymore and it shows. In circumstances like that, just dont count on him as a close friend anymore and leave stuff as it is. That means that you dont push for reasons why he is like he is(which would probably lead to uneccessary infighting) or try to bring you close together. If he doesnt want to hang out and disrespects you and your house rules, then you dont try to hang out with him anymore too. It just run its course.

[Wiseman2]

51 minutes ago, yoda1949 said:

I mentioned the show was coming up and he tells me he made plans that night to see a different band... 

You've drifted apart and outgrown each other. Just distance yourself and make other friends. "I have plans" is a typical but acceptable excuse, so lower your expectations of him and put him in the 'acquaintance' pile.

[yoda1949]

He stated he wanted to go and said it would be fun or something to that effect, not sure how much more enthusiastic one is supposed to be before I believe someone.  Basically, if I ask and you agree it's a done deal.  It's a three hour concert not a major life decision.  As far as paying for the ticket, I assumed the day of the show.  150 bucks isn't cheap but I'm in a position where i can float it.  This isn't really about the money though.  

As far as staying at my place, they were there for the weekend, but this was a few years back. 

I should add we text weekly.  Usually just some BS funny things back and forth but that's how we've related.  Further, just last week he texted me and said "I just wanted you to know I appreciate your friendship all these years".   Maybe I gave the impression this was someone I generally had little to do with but that hasn't been the case, at least not the past few years.  

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, yoda1949 said:

He stated he wanted to go and said it would be fun or something to that effect, not sure how much more enthusiastic one is supposed to be before I believe someone.  Basically, if I ask and you agree it's a done deal.  It's a three hour concert not a major life decision.  As far as paying for the ticket, I assumed the day of the show.  150 bucks isn't cheap but I'm in a position where i can float it.  This isn't really about the money though.  

As far as staying at my place, they were there for the weekend, but this was a few years back. 

I should add we text weekly.  Usually just some BS funny things back and forth but that's how we've related.  Further, just last week he texted me and said "I just wanted you to know I appreciate your friendship all these years".   Maybe I gave the impression this was someone I generally had little to do with but that hasn't been the case, at least not the past few years.  

This strikes me as odd -it seems to me he never totally agreed to go and for $150 one would think you'd want a definitive response not just "oh cool sounds fun". Not enthusiastic but definitive. A full evening to put aside plus $150 is a fairly significant decision for many especially if he's busy and lives on a budget.

  Also you said that they'd already been there a few days when they started keeping their shoes on and now it's a two-day trip? 

Just FYI -I went to the theater with a friend twice before covid and we planned to go twice during covid and both times the show was cancelled.  Every time I agreed to go I paypaled her the money for the ticket (around $100) within a day or so of agreeing even though the plan was a ways off.  I don't think she asked me and sure I've paid people day of but I think it's better manners if you know someone has laid out the $ to pay them when you make the plan.

[yoda1949]

Well maybe... It could actually be a money thing, he has had employment issues lately.  He did defiantly agree to go and I had mentioned it several times that were much further away from the actual event where he could have mentioned if he had changed his mind.  I guess I could have locked down the payment but as 150 bucks out for a few months isn't hurting my finances and I assume if someone agree they agree, I shouldn't need to lock them in.  It's a concert not a business transaction.   

Yes, they came on Friday and that was on Sunday.  A few days, lol.  

To elaborate on the money bit though... I pretty easily twice what he makes and in that regard have grown to a place where I'm not needing to worry as much. Growing up he was the leader and me the follower and I think there is a bit of resentment that i'm not like I was growing up anymore.  I used the shoe story because it was a succent example of what happened.  There were more examples.

You have me painted as the villain in this story and I don't think that's accurate.  If I agree I agree and it's not on the other person to need to lock everything down.  We're middleaged adults, if he didn't ever want to go like to imply he should have just said so six months ago or even any of the times I'd brought it up since.  He reasons aren't really relevant, he can say no for any reason he likes but the onus is on him to say no.  Frankly if I valued a person at all and had agreed I'd go anyway becuase I would value not destroying a friendship over 150 bucks or 3 hours of my time.  

 

[Batya33]

9 minutes ago, yoda1949 said:

Well maybe... It could actually be a money thing, he has had employment issues lately.  He did defiantly agree to go and I had mentioned it several times that were much further away from the actual event where he could have mentioned if he had changed his mind.  I guess I could have locked down the payment but as 150 bucks out for a few months isn't hurting my finances and I assume if someone agree they agree, I shouldn't need to lock them in.  It's a concert not a business transaction.   

Yes, they came on Friday and that was on Sunday.  A few days, lol.  

Right so if after a few days they put their shoes on that was the day they were leaving anyway yes?  It's not a business transaction.  No one said it was.  Except you.  I said if someone laid out $ for me I'd pay them ASAP unless I arranged otherwise.  I am finding your discussion here oddly defensive.  Something else is going on with you and I can't quite discern what that could be. 

You were already concerned about a disrespectful incident of a few years ago.  You laid out $150 that is not a lot of $ for you for a concert ticket at an inconvenient location so your friend would be more likely to attend.  He behaved unreliably.  Now you're adding this incident to the shoes incident of two years ago and wondering if there is a pattern.  At the same time you are defending him as not being able to afford the concert, that you two are so close (even though he was rude two years ago) that I mean -of course! - he shouldn't feel the need to offer to pay for a ticket until the day of.  

You're conflicted I guess and trying to figure out your own limits.  I am not really feeling your defensive tone so I'm the wrong person to continue this interaction.  I gave my opinion and I wish you luck.  

[yoda1949]

I was filling in data because it seems relevant to give an accurate understanding of the situation.  As it was it appears I have the impression that this was an acquaintance from childhood that I roped into going to a concert that he never really wanted to go to and that wasn't the case.  there have been several other incidents where I felt pretty disrespected, but I decided to let them go.  Basically after the visit I mentioned were distant for a year or so then reconnected.  I don't recall who put out the olive branch this last time, maybe it was me.  Perhaps I have been the driving force it keeping a dead friendship going and maybe I should just let it go.  

[Tinydance]

Well personally what comes across from your post is that this guy is either not that invested in your friendship anymore and/or he's actually a rude or inconsiderate person by nature. It could be one or the other, or could be both.

In regards to the shoe situation, I actually agree that it's rude that he refused to take the shoes off after you asked him. It's really not a big deal to take your shoes off, unless I guess it's summer and that person was in thongs or sandals and they'll end up being barefoot. In the country I'm originally from it's the tradition to take your shoes off when you come to someone's house. I realise it's not a tradition everywhere but that shouldn't matter because you asked him to take them off and it's not a big deal. Especially as your friend and his family were staying with you and it's good to be polite when you're a guest.

In terms of the concert, I think it doesn't matter if he didn't 100% say at the start he wanted to go. He did give a positive response and you told him a few times that you bought the tickets, so he knew. So if he didn't really want to go, once he knew you bought the tickets he should have said something like: "I'm really sorry, I don't think I want to go. Could you invite someone else or try to get a refund on my ticket?" It's rude to not say anything and for a while give you the impression that he'll go. Then not even let you know that he won't go until you chased him up. And he just didn't bother to tell you and made other plans. This is super rude and inconsiderate.

Not to mention for example, I'm not rich so to me $150 is actually a lot. I wouldn't want that money to just be thrown away. And he also didn't really give you much time in advance to invite anyone else.

I think as well that when someone is keen to hang out with a good friend, they'd want to go to the concert. If it looks like he didn't really care then maybe he's not that fussed about your friendship. You said you have other examples of these kinds of behaviours so that's probably telling you something.

I think you should tell him that you're not happy about the concert situation. Don't let him get away with it. And after that don't keep reaching out to him much and leave the ball in his court. If he's not going to be a good friend then why do you need him?

[Tinydance]

1 hour ago, yoda1949 said:

I was filling in data because it seems relevant to give an accurate understanding of the situation.  As it was it appears I have the impression that this was an acquaintance from childhood that I roped into going to a concert that he never really wanted to go to and that wasn't the case.  there have been several other incidents where I felt pretty disrespected, but I decided to let them go.  Basically after the visit I mentioned were distant for a year or so then reconnected.  I don't recall who put out the olive branch this last time, maybe it was me.  Perhaps I have been the driving force it keeping a dead friendship going and maybe I should just let it go.  

" I have been the driving force it keeping a dead friendship going and maybe I should just let it go.  "

- Yes this might be the case.

 

Quote

[LootieTootie]

Yoda, friends come and go. As Kwothe mentioned, this friendship has run its course. If he ever wants to be your friend again, let him reach out.

You just never know what people's hang ups are even if they've been your "friend" since childhood, or they seem like such a sweet person... Just remember that people are fickle and they can be your bestie one minute and next thing, they are acting like they don't even care about you.

All you can do is not take it personal and when it's hard and you find yourself taking it personal, just do something to preoccupy your mind and then sleep it all off. You'll feel better the next day - I promise.

 

[Tinydance]

2 hours ago, Tinydance said:

 

Wrong comment

[catfeeder]

I'm sorry that your friend did this, and I'd be frustrated, too.

I'm not sure that you both had a meeting of the minds on the exact date, time, cost and logistics, and some people (like me, for instance) don't view agreeing that something sounds like fun as an actual date on my calendar until I have all of that info and specifically give the go-ahead on the ticket purchase.

So, I could be wrong, but the guy may have felt as blindsided by you pulling that trigger as you feel by his turn down.

Regardless, your example of his disregard and disrespect in your home would likely have been my own private distancing from that relationship.

And I understand how sad this might feel for you, because I had to drop someone from my life who was my friend since we were just out of diapers. She took up drinking during covid to the degree that I'd receive random hostile phone calls that made no sense. Despite addressing that with a boundary that she can only call me before drinking and not after she's had a few, the problem escalated when I saw her in person. I saw no other way out but to cut her out before something dangerous or life-altering happened.

In your case, you've been insulted more than once, and I agree that that's just not okay. If we can't trust a friend to uphold a bare minimum of respect, then it's just no longer a friendship--it's being taken for granted.

My heart goes out to you, and I hope that closing one door prompts an opening of more beneficial relationships for you.

Head high.

 

[Jibralta]

8 hours ago, yoda1949 said:

Growing up he was the leader and me the follower and I think there is a bit of resentment that i'm not like I was growing up anymore.

It doesn't really sound like much has changed, to be honest. It seems like you regularly bend over backwards for him.

[JoyfulCompany]

Short answer - reevaluate your friendship. Don't let it slide. You'll built resentment that will hurt you. You already are.
Decide if:
a) it's worth bringing it up in a mature way;
b) the connection isn't worth investing in but it's a nice fun outlet - then keep the stupid jokes channel open and don't commit much more;
c) it's not worth it at all - distance yourself entirely;

As to when it's worth bringing something up - depends on the friendship. I personally put emotional connection and mutual respect above longevity in a friendship. You should know for yourself.

Long answer:
With my friends we do a two factor authentication.
1) Wanna go to a concert - yes/maybe/we'll see. Cool.
2) When it's time for the tickets - I'm gonna buy a ticket now, are you still on - yes, get one for me/yes, I'll get mine/still unsure, I'll tell you if I buy one.
As an extra step the one with better memory reminds the other the concert is approaching.

In your case, I didn't read about you explicitly asking your friend if he wants you to buy him a ticket right now, as you were actually buying them. If he knew and approved but now he's bailing out, that's pretty weak.
You made sure to periodically remind him, but if he wasn't wholeheartedly in it and didn't get asked about an actual ticket, maybe he felt uncomfortable to bring it up. Still weak, could've said something, I agree. But in this case it's overall poor communication on both sides. Something you could also improve on.

I take travelling, theater and bigger concerts very seriously because they excite me a lot and I learnt not to make plans with flaky people. I don't want to put myself in situations where I'll get disappointed. I'm fine with everyday flakiness and even sometimes I'm doing it (e.g. when we have plans to meet Thursday evening and on Thursday morning some of us isn't feeling it - that's fine with me and my friends).
I have a friend who has been in a bad financial situation for the past few years but she's never used it as an excuse. She'll just say upfront it's a trouble to spend money now, we'll agree I'll pay and first thing she'll do upon getting her paycheck is to give the sum (or part of the sum) back. I don't have to ask her, it's who she is and I admire her for that. If she were to conveniently forget she borrowed money, I would've stopped lending it.

The example where you're hosting his whole family and he refuses to take off his shoes would be intolerable for me. Certainly a point where I'll have to reconsider things.

[Batya33]

5 hours ago, catfeeder said:

I'm sorry that your friend did this, and I'd be frustrated, too.

I'm not sure that you both had a meeting of the minds on the exact date, time, cost and logistics, and some people (like me, for instance) don't view agreeing that something sounds like fun as an actual date on my calendar until I have all of that info and specifically give the go-ahead on the ticket purchase.

So, I could be wrong, but the guy may have felt as blindsided by you pulling that trigger as you feel by his turn down.

Regardless, your example of his disregard and disrespect in your home would likely have been my own private distancing from that relationship.

And I understand how sad this might feel for you, because I had to drop someone from my life who was my friend since we were just out of diapers. She took up drinking during covid to the degree that I'd receive random hostile phone calls that made no sense. Despite addressing that with a boundary that she can only call me before drinking and not after she's had a few, the problem escalated when I saw her in person. I saw no other way out but to cut her out before something dangerous or life-altering happened.

In your case, you've been insulted more than once, and I agree that that's just not okay. If we can't trust a friend to uphold a bare minimum of respect, then it's just no longer a friendship--it's being taken for granted.

My heart goes out to you, and I hope that closing one door prompts an opening of more beneficial relationships for you.

Head high.

 

I agree totally with this analysis -I was just confused when you said he refused to remove his shoes after a few days but it sounds like the whole stay was a few days. Thanks for clarifying. 

In my friendships which are not business transactions I'm much more direct and clear when this kind of time and $ are involved and it's one on one.  So if it's a free event where others are coming the "sounds like fun" is totally fine - because I'll be going anyway, I haven't inconvenienced myself by choosing a location better for the "sounds like fun" person and closer to the event I'll ask sounds like fun friend if she is actually going to be there.  

Edited to add -read Joyfulcompany's post on the two factor authentication -I feel the same way about theater and travel and love that approach.  Often my family and I are in our home city for very short amounts of time so I refuse to make plans with flaky people since if they bail and I have no back up that's like 1/4-1/3 of our time there. 

I'm sorry he disappointed you again.

[Wiseman2]

Ok, don't buy them tickets. Simply ask and if they want to commit to going, let them pay First before you shell out the money expecting reimbursement. If they won't commit with a payment, ask someone else.

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Ok, don't buy them tickets. Simply ask and if they want to commit to going, let them pay First before you shell out the money expecting reimbursement. If they won't commit with a payment, ask someone else.

When I suggested this the OP thought this would make it too much like a business transaction she was not comfortable with in a friendship.  I like your approach and also Joyful Company's but the OP is entitled to risk the money -she said $150 was no biggie - if she's not comfortable asking for the $ up front.

[JoyfulCompany]

The 2FA approach wasn't something that came naturally to me 😄
Neither the more independent approach to joint plans, nor the friendship evaluation.
All of those are results of past incidents or arguments. Here's a little story...

One time me and a close friend were going to fly abroad for a concert. I booked the flights, did the flight check-in and printed our tickets. I mentioned I will be at the airport hour and a half ahead of the scheduled flight (we didn't have checked baggage). Didn't make sure to confirm with her that we will meet at that time. So, it's an hour before the flight now, I'm writing to ask her where she is - she was just leaving her apartment and taking a taxi (so 15-20 more minutes). She got my message about the time as informative, not as an agreement - she was used to go to the airport at the last minute. I felt trapped - I couldn't go on with security check and passport control, because I had her ticket with me. I think it was in the taxi when she finally downloaded the airline app to see if she could get her ticket that way.

We made it together to the gate just as they opened it and people were boarding the bus to the plane.
I'm not gonna lie, I was very angry and it took me some time to calm down. We discussed it, she apologized for keeping me on edge. And I had to admit (mostly to myself) I didn't do the best job confirming. And shouldn't have expected that everyone tries to be on the safe side as it comes to time.

In the end this friendship was really valuable to me and there was a way we could both be free in our approach and still have big plans together - if everyone took care of their own ticket/part.
 

[Rose Mosse]

13 hours ago, yoda1949 said:

 there have been several other incidents where I felt pretty disrespected, but I decided to let them go. 

A huge NO to this. I understand you closed an eye a couple of times but know your boundaries. This man just doesn’t care about what you think. Maybe he only treats you like this, maybe he treats everyone like this. It doesn’t matter. Stop making excuses for him as he is no friend at all. 

Make this the last straw and don’t go out of your way for him again. If he has something to say it better be bringing things to the table to contribute as it’s about time. 

[yoda1949]

Another aspect... The concert is near my home town so i'm going to need to recruit another old friend to go but it's so close to the concert i'm probably going to have to gift them the ticket.  Which i'm not happy about but more awkard is it's going to appear that i'm so eager to be more friends again that I'm willing to gift them 150 bucks... awkward for both of us.  

I suppose I could also find a date on an app or dig up a former lady friend, at least she'd think she understood my motivation lol.