Not sure what to do

[reinventmyself]

I may have questioned how she comes up with her political leanings, and I implied that her political convictions aren't well-informed… I felt I needed to be honest.

 

Skimming over your first thread.

 

You mention how calm you are compared to her passionate heated responses to the things you say to her.

 

You go on about *her trauma and your theories on why it's caused her to mysteriously respond to you the way she does.

 

Maybe there is some truth in there, but honestly - you provoke her, talk down down to her in your calm and self admitted passive (aggressive) manner and she get's righteously angry and insulted.

 

For further insult, you minimize this anger you provoke and write it off as *her trauma.

 

She doesn't feel respected by you. I can't say I blame her.

[jul-els]

Not seeing eye to eye on world views is just a difference of opinion. Everyone has a right to theirs and if you and your so's opinions differ on these matters then it's best to be respected and left alone. It's not an important component of forming a bond with someone in a romantic context. You agree to disagree, respect it, and move on to more pleasant and productive topics and areas that you share in common. You let it go out of respect for the other person and the bond you share. There's no superior or inferior opinions, just differing ones. This is something you have to accept in order to keep the peace and let it go. If you can't, you're going to have an uphill struggle that will make you miserable or make your connection fail. Probably both.

[Leah33]

If political debate is something you’re passionate about why not just have those discussions with your male friend instead? It’s obviously a source of contention between the two of you so why have it?

 

Is it wise or important to debate parenting styles with your lady friend if there's a chance it could indirectly affect your daughter? Of course you want to demonstrate that you value your lady friend's opinion but not if it infringes on your ability to co-parent.

[Whirling D]

If political debate is something you’re passionate about why not just have those discussions with your male friend instead? It’s obviously a source of contention between the two of you so why have it?

 

Is it wise or important to debate parenting styles with your lady friend if there's a chance it could indirectly affect your daughter? Of course you want to demonstrate that you value your lady friend's opinion but not if it infringes on your ability to co-parent.

 

I agree... but I’m going to disagree with some of the things that have been said here. I’m not typically an argumentative sort, regardless of what it may seem. If anything. I think she was goading me. She was offering an opinion on a topic related to MY child care. I was fine with that, until SHE began to seem argumentative about it. When I told her what the professional literature said about it, which contradicted her theory, that’s when she started to get nasty. I didn’t start the nasty part, and I don’t believe I deserve to be labeled as the antagonizer. I don’t think I was. At all. I did get a bit annoyed when she started asserting that she was disagreeing with the authorities, and my opinions, which, in effect, kinda disrespects my opinion. That’s when I thought it would be useful to send some literature, rather than argue, since her disagreement was as much with the professionals as it was with me, since I didn’t really care that much about the topic.

 

I think my lady friend and I shouldn’t be talking about this stuff by text, because, similar to this discussion, I think a ton of relevant information is lost in the conveyance of a text. Tons more can be conveyed through person to person, and I think text can be troublesome for just that reason.

[Whirling D]

This is something you have to accept in order to keep the peace and let it go. If you can't, you're going to have an uphill struggle that will make you miserable or make your connection fail. Probably both.

 

I do agree, and I think Ive made improvements in that area. However, it’s not me that is ghosting. I’m more than happy and eager to talk and figure out how to better strategize difficulties like this.

 

Ironically, we get along really well in almost every other area, which is why her disappearance is so sad.

 

We both clearly has self-esteem issues, and I’ve seen over time that hers is manifested in feeling inferior in certain situations. I do, too, which is why I think I can recognize it. A lot of times, I think people like me come across as being know it all, when our intent is to try to help and offer what we know about something as our gift. Her gift to me was always buying things for me, since her income is staggeringly more than mine, and doing chores around my house. I don’t feel subordinate when she tries to do that. I try to be grateful and thankful. It has always seemed that whenever I offered opinions on things that I know something about, I would often see her feeling frustrated or irritated, rather than accepting and being grateful. That’s what I’m seeing.

[reinventmyself]

It has always seemed that whenever I offered opinions on things that I know something about, I would often see her feeling frustrated or irritated, rather than accepting and being grateful. That’s what I’m seeing.

 

So, if that's not working, going forward what would you do differently?

[jul-els]

It has always seemed that whenever I offered opinions on things that I know something about, I would often see her feeling frustrated or irritated, rather than accepting and being grateful. That’s what I’m seeing.

 

Ok, so when you see that frustration or irritation, you can back away from it and let it go. This is how you show respect and promote harmony between you.

[Whirling D]

So, if that's not working, going forward what would you do differently?

 

That’s a good question. Well, it needs dialogue. First, I’d offer validation for her feelings. I’m sorry she’s clearly struggling. I can’t stop offering ideas and suggestions. I kinda think it’s in her court to try to understand me when I say that I’m not trying to make her feel inferior when I offer ideas. I think it’s that simple. I have to get better at letting things go.

 

This might also be a contributing story that I haven’t yet mentioned... last weekend, we talked on the phone, a couple of days after a really nice couple of nights. She seemed irritated on the phone when she seemingly wasn’t hearing the answers to her questions about what we were going to do the following day when she was free and I had my kid. She likes to do stuff on her days off, but I’m less decisive, especially when I have my kid, who can be indecisive and bossy about what she does. So, I wanted to keep things open for my kid, and see what we felt like doing the following day. My lady friend seemed somewhat irritated by my indecisiveness.

 

So, about an hour later, I texted her, and I wanted to feel better about the conversation, so I said to her that I was sorry if I frustrated her, and that sometimes I feel like I irritate her and I apologized if I did that. I was hoping to open up a dialogue. Her response was “why would you feel that, I don’t get it”. I replied, “ No biggie... I get the impression that I frustrate you fairly regularly… :-). Probably my non committal approach to making plans.“

 

Maybe I presumed too much, but she seemed irritated... even in that text. Maybe she’s sick of me thinking the bottom is going to fall out of things at any moment... or maybe she is irritated that I hyper-analyze everything she does. I AM hypersensitive about her demeanor, and I sense things. If she was really empathetic about my needs, I would think she’d want to help reassure my uneasiness about our interactions. She seems to get irritated about it, which makes me scratch my head a bit. If someone I loved thought I was irritated about something, I’d do everything in my power to try to help. I hadn’t asked anything like that of her in awhile.

[boltnrun]

What you seem to be struggling to realize or understand is...she is not you.

 

You keep repeating "well, if someone did this and such to me or said this and such to me or I sensed this and such I'd do this or that"...but SHE IS NOT YOU.

 

She is herself. She will have her own actions, reactions and feelings completely independent of what you would do in the same situations.

 

And you want her to be sensitive to your anxiety, yet you stated you will not stop offering suggestions and advice to her despite knowing it irritates her. In fact, you state you "can't" stop. Do you not see the double standard here?

[Whirling D]

What you seem to be struggling to realize or understand is...she is not you.

 

You keep repeating "well, if someone did this and such to me or said this and such to me or I sensed this and such I'd do this or that"...but SHE IS NOT YOU.

 

She is herself. She will have her own actions, reactions and feelings completely independent of what you would do in the same situations.

 

And you want her to be sensitive to your anxiety, yet you stated you will not stop offering suggestions and advice to her despite knowing it irritates her. In fact, you state you "can't" stop. Do you not see the double standard here?

 

I get it. She is not me. That’s not rocket science. But there is also a reasonable expectation of what one can expect from a partner. You seem to be thinking that she doesn’t have to adhere to any kind of expectation of trying to negotiate through difficulties. That’s not a lot to ask from a partner. If she is irritated by something, she should be able to open up and describe what it is. She seems to have a hard time doing that.

 

Why is it that a lot of you on here seem to say that it’s me that has to change expectations? I try to do that. I don’t see a lot of that coming from her, if what I suspect is true in all of this.

 

I think whatever is going on with her transcends the interactions between her and I. I’m not saying that my behavior hasn’t contributed to it, but it shouldn’t be anywhere near as severe as her not talking to me after having the six-month history that we have. It just doesn’t make any sense, in my mind. It’s also very hurtful.

[Whirling D]

I won’t even stop at suggesting that there may be a bit of passive aggressive behavior going on with her, and her silence is a way of punishing me for not living up to her expectations. I’ve seen a few things that could be evidence of that.

[Whirling D]

So, back to the original question… What should I be doing about this?

 

This is the first day since I have practically known her that I haven’t heard from her during the day to say hi. I have tried really hard to not give into my temptation to reach out for her, because I figure that if she wanted to talk, she would reach out. That has always been the protocol. There’s part of me that wants to stick with that. I figure, if she wants to talk, she knows how to get in touch with me.

 

On the other hand, if she is struggling, and it transcends our relationship, which it likely does, but who knows, maybe me checking in with a quick hi tonight might be in some ways helpful.

 

What do you think?

[catfeeder]

Things had been going downhill for quite a while with her former husband. They separated one year ago, and she was by herself until we really started getting together in early August of last summer. So, she didn’t have a lot of time to decompress.

 

That's an understatement. She's separated, still married. That should tell you all you need to know.

[Whirling D]

That's an understatement. She's separated, still married. That should tell you all you need to know.

 

No...sorry... they were divorced shortly thereafter.

[bluecastle]

But there is also a reasonable expectation of what one can expect from a partner.

 

See, I would challenge this very notion.

 

In the vacuum of our minds? Sure, we can make a list of what we feel is "reasonable" to expect from a partner—i.e. what we need from a partner to feel secure, thrilled, and so on. Then we go out, and date, with the hope of meeting someone who meets and, ideally, exceeds those expectations—someone who is "bigger" than our imagination, who transcends analysis and provides basic security simply by being themselves. Those who don't? We respect the basic fabric of their humanity, and the places where it does not dovetail with our own, rather than judge it or hyper-analyze it for not meeting our expectations.

 

Something to think about, or not, as your heart pounds and your head spins.

 

So, back to the original question… What should I be doing about this?

 

I'll tell you what I'd do, roughly. I'd reflect on things, and be honest with whether I believed there was a reason to continue, rather than hoping for her to provide that reason through an emoticon, or some sign or another. If in my heart I knew I was still invested and was confident in our connection, rather than just itching for attention, I'd humbly and humorously apologize for being a hypersensitive peacocking male the other day, and let her know that I'm thinking of her, hope she's having a nice night, and am looking forward to seeing her sooner than later.

 

But that's just me. What is it that you are longing for, right now? An emoji heart, or an admission that she was wrong? A blue ribbon, or a white flag? Her and who she is, or a version of her that you would prefer over the version you're getting?

 

It remains hard to determine, honestly, from these posts.

[Whirling D]

See, I would challenge this very notion.

 

In the vacuum of our minds? Sure, we can make a list of what we feel is "reasonable" to expect from a partner—i.e. what we need from a partner to feel secure, thrilled, and so on. Then we go out, and date, with the hope of meeting someone who meets and, ideally, exceeds those expectations—someone who is "bigger" than our imagination, who transcends analysis and provides basic security simply by being themselves. Those who don't? We respect the basic fabric of their humanity, and the places where it does not dovetail with our own, rather than judge it or hyper-analyze it for not meeting our expectations.

 

Something to think about, or not, as your heart pounds and your head spins.

 

 

 

I'll tell you what I'd do, roughly. I'd reflect on things, and be honest with whether I believed there was a reason to continue, rather than hoping for her to provide that reason through an emoticon, or some sign or another. If in my heart I knew I was still invested and was confident in our connection, rather than just itching for attention, I'd humbly and humorously apologize for being a hypersensitive peacocking male the other day, and let her know that I'm thinking of her, hope she's having a nice night, and am looking forward to seeing her sooner than later.

 

But that's just me. What is it that you are longing for, right now? An emoji heart, or an admission that she was wrong? A blue ribbon, or a white flag? Her and who she is, or a version of her that you would prefer over the version you're getting?

 

It remains hard to determine, honestly, from these posts.

 

Your postings are very thoughtful and vivid. Thank you.

 

What I mean by expectations... well, if there’s a problem between two partners, the expectation could be that they are both willing and capable of coming to the table to discuss it, and not ghost the partner. I would never expect it from her, and definitely not based on any of these occurrences. That’s kind of what I mean by expectations.

 

As far as what I’m hoping for... well, I don’t think I’d be spinning as much if I didn’t feel a worthy connection with her. It wasn’t without its problems, but for once in my pathetic life, I felt I was getting past stupid problems and accepting limitations open heartedly, and without the judgment I often see things through.

 

I still want to still know this girl and work on things. But I also don’t want to pressure her. I fear that if I DONT give her space, she could feel pressure, but I’m also butt afraid she’s just going to blow me off completely, which would send me into a complete vortex. I feel handcuffed either way.

 

I just can’t understand this girl. Last week, we vowed our love... Which was nowhere close to the first time, and I even asked her how we were doing and she said she was happy. I asked her if there was anything she would like me to work on to make things better between us, and she said there was nothing, and I was easy to be with. Then she asked me the same. it felt we were in a good place and on the same page. A few days later, she seems to be falling apart. What’s up with that? Even if I was being a flake... was that enough for ghosting? I’m wondering how honest she as been with her saying all was nice.

[Whirling D]

Well, it may be all for nothing, because as expected, she just sent me a text saying that she doesn’t think that we can continue. She says she thinks that she is not ready for this kind of relationship, and that she feels that I confront and dismiss a lot of her opinions on things.

[bluecastle]

Sorry to hear about that. I hope this doesn't send you into the aforementioned vortex—that you can see the pain, and feel it as needed, but separate those feelings from being a verdict on you.

 

I know there was a lot of hope here, and heart as well, but as you documented there was also a lot friction, a lot of signs of incompatibly. When you're ready to get back out there, I'd try to gauge the connection less by how much work is required to sustain it but almost the opposite.

[Whirling D]

Sorry to hear about that. I hope this doesn't send you into the aforementioned vortex—that you can see the pain, and feel it as needed, but separate those feelings from being a verdict on you.

 

I know there was a lot of hope here, and heart as well, but as you documented there was also a lot friction, a lot of signs of incompatibly. When you're ready to get back out there, I'd try to gauge the connection less by how much work is required to sustain it but almost the opposite.

 

Thank you, bluecastle.

 

Obviously, based on the amount I have written over the past 10 hours, I am in a lot of pain. Truthfully, I didn’t expect this. I figured we would work it out. I’m still not 100% certain that we wouldn’t have succeeded, and her text to me was not 100% conclusive. She has said exactly this once before back in mid December, if you recall, and she did a 180 without explanation within a week. I’m not sure I can handle that this time around. Most of her text was filled with lines like, “maybe I am not ready for this kind of relationship“ or, “maybe I’m just not emotionally ready for a deep relationship“. Then she went on to say she just needed to clear her head and it’s not what she wants right now. That sounds pretty much like a blow off, but she even said she kept going back-and-forth with her heart and her head.

 

That being said, I don’t know how much more of this kind of stuff I can tolerate. I am completely unstable as a result of all of this. I am sure it is the same with her.

 

In hindsight, I don’t think we were all that incompatible, with the exception of where we both are in our own heads. I’ve had four years of being single to figure out what I would want, whereas she was fresh out of trauma.

 

It won’t surprise me if she comes around in a little while, but I guess it won’t surprise me if she doesn’t. Part of me hope she does, part of me hope she doesn’t. That doesn’t show a lot of commitment on my part, but I guess there is only so much jostling around that one can do before you have to wonder if it’s worth it. I do think it’s worth it, because relationships are almost never easy. We had a lot of easy times. She has a lot of good in her. I think she’s just stuck in her own head right now, and I get it. I don’t know why she’s Stuck in her Own head, but she just is.

 

In response to her text, I said some really valuable and important things, and I also was clear that I admitted full responsibility for my own part in it. She was in no place to hear it. She wrote a very short response that didn’t really make a lot of sense, truthfully, but I haven’t heard back since, even though I wrote some very encouraging and nice thoughts after that.

 

It is clear that her head is pretty screwed up right now. I’m not sure how much I contributed to that. I’ve gone back repeatedly to the texts that were the final straw, about childcare, and it is clear that she saw that conversation very differently than I did, which underscores the fact that texting is not a great place to try to resolve disputes. She even brought that conversation up and her departure text, and once again, she was trying to present evidence to support her case of what she was saying had merit, and I just wanted to argue with her, which wasn’t really at all the case. I just don’t think she is comfortable enough with that kind of exchange of information to feel confident with her on argument.

 

Anyway… I have to reevaluate my priorities, and try to find a way to move forward in life, without feeling like I want to jump off a bridge. It took so much energy and effort to get us far with this lady as we did, and I would’ve never let it end like this. Can’t say with certainty that it is going to end like this. I almost want to copy and paste the text, to get a different perspective, but I think she was pretty clear that she’s confused and tired. I can’t change that.

[Wiseman2]

And this is where your problems arise. You need to be right about everything. People can have their opinions so why argue and argue and argue about it. When there is no room for anyone else's thoughts it's because your ego and fierce need to be right and dress people down fills the room too much. Most of the subjects you argue about are irrelevant, it's just hearing yourself talk in order to drown everything else out..

I’m going to disagree......

[Whirling D]

And this is where your problems arise. You need to be right about everything. People can have their opinions so why argue and argue and argue about it. When there is no room for anyone else's thoughts it's because your ego and fierce need to be right and dress people down fills the room too much. Most of the subjects you argue about are irrelevant, it's just hearing yourself talk in order to drown everything else out..

 

You have no idea what you’re talking about. Speak for yourself. You say something like that with having virtually no idea of who I am or what is important to me. To make an evaluation like that, and to post it when someone has made it clear that they are suffering, it’s just plain mean.

 

Thanks a lot, but no thank you.

[bluecastle]

I know you're in pain right now, and for that I'm sorry. Truly. The following observations are made not to negate that pain—or the feelings behind it—but in hopes of helping you reflect a bit.

 

So, your long post in response to me above? Being completely honest, what comes through there is a dismissal of her truth—the very thing, alas, she expressed to you, along with something that many posters here observed in this and your previous thread.

 

Let's start with the idea of incompatibility, which you refuted moments after someone, in clear language, expressed that she believed you two were incompatible. When someone says that, and ends things, it means you are incompatible, that the margins for debate have been reduced to a bitter zero. I'm in a relationship, for instance, and I think it's going extraordinarily: that is my truth. But if my girlfriend comes home and ends things because she doesn't believe we work—well, that would mean we are incompatible and that I now had to accept that. Her truth would render any truth of mine a debunked theory—a gauzy belief that exists only in my head, not in the world at large.

 

In your shoes right now, hard as it may be, I would explore the impulse, demonstrated above, to go down the road of chalking this all up to her being "screwed up" or "in her head" or "in no place to hear" your "valuable" words, and perhaps ask if that impulse was prevalent over the past 6 months. Because all that? Again, that is minimizing her and maximizing you. It is dismissing the lens through which she views the world and, in this case, you as being inferior to or somehow foggier than your lens. Like in my hypothetical parallel above? If my girlfriend told me she felt I dismissed her it would be, simply, because that was how she felt, her truth. Something to listen to and respect, not react to or refute with my truth, or chalk up to the limitations of her emotional equilibrium.

 

No, I am not saying all this to blame you or judge your character. At all. I'm just trying open up the aperture a bit, to let in a bit more humility and humanity. My impression here, zooming out, is that on a less-than-conscious level you kind of came to see her—or perhaps this relationship, or simply "relationships" in a more general sense—as the apex, or completion, or validation of your self-work. As in: if you could will this thing into functionality, then it meant your years of reflection and singledom were not for nothing. And also: if this doesn't function, then it must mean something in you remains dysfunctional.

 

Trouble there? Well, it's a variation on the same theme: it's reducing another person to a character in your story, and getting very upset when they don't adhere to the script. No one really wants to be a piece of another's puzzle, or a moon orbiting the planet of another. They want to be their own puzzle, more respected than solved, a different planet with a different atmosphere.

 

Speaking for myself, I find nothing quite as beautiful and mystifying as the human capacity to believe in multiple truths. One person believes in god, another does not. One's politics are x, another's y. To one person clouds and rain are a lovely day, while another prefers sunlight, blue skies. And so on. But bringing it down to a more micro level—the level of connecting with individual people rather than theories about people—it really does help when two people align in fundamental ways, when they can breathe each other's atmosphere without fancy equipment. It makes respect something that blooms organically, rather than requiring cerebral jujitsu or swordplay to extract.

 

That also might be something worth thinking about, in terms of what works, and doesn't, for you. There is a difference between a connection that challenges in healthy, enlivening ways, and one where the main challenge is simply connecting. We all have limitations in terms of what we can naturally respect—what kind of air we can breathe—and in ways there is nothing stronger than recognizing our own limitations.

 

Anyhow, a few cents to spend however you see fit.

[reinventmyself]

I think she was pretty clear that she’s confused and tired. I can’t change that.

 

So, we'll write this off to her being confused? That's all you take away from this?

 

I don't think she was confused at all and she made her her decision based on her most recent interactions with you.

 

I will also guess that her having come off an abusive relationship makes her even less tolerant to a partner who sees their views as the only truth.

 

And you saw yourself doing her favor by not only offering her these truths, but telling her that hers aren't relevant or somehow misinformed?

 

I hope you learn something from this. . . It only benefits you in the long run.

[boltnrun]

It's definitely an opportunity for a life lesson. We are never too old or too experienced to learn.

 

But...we have to be open to learning. We can't just pay lip service or make a half effort, we need to be able to fully absorb feedback and decide it's value.

 

I hope this gives you the opportunity to truly connect with someone who shares your interests and is more compatible.

[Whirling D]

Hi everyone,

 

It’s been a week since I’ve been on here. I have had a lot to think about. I’ve gone over a lot of the opinions that are on here. Some I agree with, some I don’t. I appreciate all the input, one way or the other.

 

There has been no significant change over the past week. I have not heard from my lady friend. I am still confused as to how to proceed.

 

In contrast what many of you said, I still believe that this lady is confused about what she wanted, and that was clear in her “break up“ note. She said her heart was going back-and-forth and she was truly torn, but that she needed a break. If you read all of the previous post eggs, you would have read that she also said “maybe I’m not ready for a deep relationship like this” or, “Maybe I’m not emotionally ready for this” and... “I need time now to clear my head and dont want to keep bartering about things now”. These are direct quotes.

 

Many of you said that this is clear, and she is breaking up with me. Get over it. Well, I am having a hard time getting over it, clearly. This note seemed to be filled with “maybes” and “breaks”, But not clearly termination language. Well, in all fairness, her text open with “Not sure the situation with you and I is working out“. Even that language leaves a little opening of interpretation. That leaves me to believe that may be, although confused, she just may not want to deal with it now, but maybe she might with a little time passing.

 

With that in mind, I still haven’t reached out. I’m afraid to. I am afraid of another rejection and the continued pain and trauma I will feel. What was clear, Is that she was struggling and she needed a break. I’ve respected that and not contacted her. I sometimes wonder if a more confident man with simply sent her a dozen roses and a card and offered to take her out to dinner when she’s ready. I can’t do that. Maybe that tells me something right there, who knows.

 

One thing that I do know, is that I don’t want to let this girl go, without a little bit more negotiation, of which there has been none. Zero. There were so many good things, almost right up until the last minute, which is why I think we were both pretty confused right till the end.

 

Thoughts?