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in love vs just being comfortable


crscnt

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It's not about being gushy in-love all the time. It's the fact that you seem to be trying to convince yourself that this is the right thing to do. Your gut is trying to talk to you, in my opinion.

 

This, in three sentences, is what I'm seeing here.

 

Finding a "winner" is rare, and it sounds like you've found one. But a winner is not just a decent person who you can trust, feel attracted to, whatever; it's also someone who, for some mysterious reasons no one can quite understand, doesn't trigger waves of doubt and mental gymnastics.

 

Again, I am a gold medal winner in the olympics of mental gymnastics, so I know those spins. It's in my nature. Still, I've been with people who, for whatever reason, don't fire all that up. One I just wasn't ready for, and that's okay. One wasn't quite ready for me, and that's also okay. I have no regrets that I didn't marry those people, because while I don't think marriage is something out of a romance novel, I don't want to have to use my brain too much to convince my heart its beating correctly. I believe the heart kind of knows, and it does sound a bit like you're trying outsmart your heart—your gut—with some mental stretching.

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I got notifications, it says reputation with a message...since i'm new to this forum, i don't quite understand how it works..?

 

Do you want a happy marriage or a romance novel? All novelties wear off, no matter who you're with.

I want a happy marriage.. I believe a happy marriage and productive relationship is more important than romance novel hence why i decided to marry this guy. If i could do it all over again, i would still choose this guy over my ex (someone i used to love like in romance novel maybe?), got tons of reasons for that..

 

@saluk

''in my own way'' yes. But since i've only fallen in love once (even attraction, i only felt it once, with the same guy and that even happened like..more than 10 years ago) and it felt different, so i'm utterly confused as to which one is the real love? also, movies are often used to describe love so it somehow becomes the standard definition of love..

 

@WithLove

re first question : nah, i don't think so honestly. but to answer your 2nd question.. yeah it does make sense..because if he doesn't love me then there's no way i can love him. I've always thought i shouldn't fall for someone who doesn't love me back, so it never happened..

 

@MissCanuck @bluecastle

i totally understand where you're coming from, but I've thought about this a lot, for so long, and i honestly don't see any point in letting my relationship go... it would be different case if i, deep down, love someone else, then that would be a sign that i should call off my wedding. because it becomes clear that I really don't love him, not because of my own issues.. (I can't go into details, but those issues are partly caused by MH problems i've been dealing for ten years, and partly because of the passing of my dad, according to the psych)

 

''I don't want to have to use my brain too much to convince my heart its beating correctly''

yeah I guess i use my brain too much for everything,not only in relationship.. I'm extremely tired as well. like...i sometimes even doubt about my real name. feeling as though i have amnesia

 

by the way...i talked to my fiance,and asked him if he could accept it...he said that he's OK as long as i still have 'feelings' for him (any kind of positive feelings towards him) he said he would wait until i can confidently say that i love him with all my heart

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Yeah I'm starting to think you don't really love him. Movies can only hint at what love is, and some do a decent job of it. But most of them focus on the initial spark rather than the sustained act of loving, which is a very different thing. But you don't really talk about him in a way that shows either love in my opinion. He's going to wait until you can confidently say you love him? I think he's going to be waiting a while. Are you really going to put him through that?

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I agree with Saluk. I mean, when he tells you he’s willing to wait how does that make you feel? Respectful toward him? Or do you pity him?

 

And how does it make you feel about yourself? Do you respect yourself more for being in this kind of dynamic or do you pity yourself?

 

These are hard questions. They’re worth asking and answering honestly.

 

A 2.5 year relationship is hard to let go of, always. Pain, uncertainty, all that. But a marriage built on an iffy foundation is another kind of pain, as is getting out of it.

 

You’ve pretty much said, albeit sideways, that you know you’re capable of loving someone else more—that your basis on this relationship being workable is that you don’t love that person this second. Fragile stuff, all that.

 

I can’t help but feel like you’re with him because he’s “safe”—not capable of delivering the kind of hurt your last boyfriend did. Well, it’s worth considering that you’re posting here because “safe” is feeling pretty risky.

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I told him because i just wanted to be honest with him, out of respect for him. and for me to know which path i should go in order to make both of us happy, not either of us

 

Yeah i was capable of it once, but that happened more than 10 years ago and only once and I also did say i’m not capable of feeling it anymore.. I asked my brother which one is the real love he said ‘I think you clearly love him (my fiance), the thing you had with ...(the aforementioned ex) was just a puppy love’

 

I feel both respectful towards him and feel sorry for him, and feel motivated to try even harder to make this work. and how does it make me feel about myself? ofc I don’t respect myself nor do I pity myself.. i just focus on figuring out ways to make both of us happy

 

remember me saying love won’t guarantee anything? a lot of people cheat on their partner eventhough they tell their spouse everyday that they love them, they seem to be all over the moon about each other, i’ve seen other cases where someone dumped/left her husband when her husband wasn’t as rich anymore so i was like.. ‘see..love is dangerous and can’t be trusted’

at least I’m loyal, i know i’ll stay beside him when life is good and life is not good. so while i am sure I don’t love him in a way other ppl do, i’m sure there are different types of love. and it doesn’t mean i love him less, just different. and on top of that, we’re happy together.

 

it’s not because of the fact that i’ve been dating for 2.5 years, so it’s hard to let go of this relationship, my previous relationship lasted for 5.5 years (different guy. this is when i was in my early 20s) and although we were compatible and he also said he loved me a lot, i still thought something was wrong. but anyway, so i believe it’s not only because he (my fiance) is safe that makes me want to be with him.

 

there are many more things that i couldn’t talk about, but well.. to get back, i’m posting this because i’m wondering if this kind of love (comfortable love instead of passion love) is wrong at the of the day.

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@katrina1980 thanks for your response. Yeah it indeed turned out i am not compatible with the kind of person who’s cold and distant...but anyway, what do you think i should do?

 

crscnt, I can't tell you what to do, but my story is very similar to yours so allow me to share.

 

I didn't feel passionate love with my second boyfriend, we were together four years. We even got engaged, but I broke the engagement (more on that later).

 

Oh I loved him LOTS, but he was really more like a super close friend, than a passionate romantic partner.

 

We did have sex but it was mediocre and frankly I had not yet experienced passionate love, so I didn't really know any better.

 

We never fought, we got on so well, we were best friends and were inseparable. He'd come to my place every night with groceries, we'd cook, watch tv, just hang out and we had so much fun, just being together, so comfortable.

 

Nevertheless, I didn't feel that "something something" about him that I knew I should feel, and wanted to feel!

 

I remember telling my mom that I wanted to be able to make love with my boyfriend and really enjoy it, like really enjoy it!!

 

She was old school and said I would learn to enjoy it. So we got engaged and proceeded with planning the wedding!

 

That lasted a few more months until I started getting really scared, because I just knew deep in my soul that I wanted and needed more.

 

I knew a deep and passionate love was awaiting me. So I ended the engagement; it was one of the hardest things I ever did, lots of tears (more his) which broke my heart so bad, seeing him crying like that still haunts me to this day!!

 

Literally around two weeks later, I met my third long term boyfriend at an event one evening. It was literally love at first sight, well probably not real love but a very deep and intense attraction, nothing I had EVER experienced prior.

 

We had sex the very night we met and it was the most beautiful, intense, mind-blowing experience I had ever had with a man. And continued to be for the next six years!

 

We got engaged after five and a half, but sadly he became involved with drugs, and our RL crumbled and I ended it.

 

I have a new bf now and am in love with him, and even though I no longer love my ex, I will never forget how I did feel about him, the passion, the intensity, the love.

 

Again, I can't tell you what to do, you have to decide that for yourself. Only to say I don't regret ending my RL with my second bf for one second.

 

It opened me up to the love and passion I felt with my ex and of course my new boyfriend. Emotions I never would have experienced had I remained with and married my second bf.

 

Best of luck whatever you decide!

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crscnt, I can't tell you what to do, but my story is very similar to yours so allow me to share.

 

I didn't feel passionate love with my second boyfriend, we were together four years. We even got engaged, but I broke the engagement (more on that later).

 

Oh I loved him LOTS, but he was really more like a super close friend, than a passionate romantic partner.

 

We did have sex but it was mediocre and frankly I had not yet experienced passionate love, so I didn't really know any better.

 

We never fought, we got on so well, we were best friends and were inseparable. He'd come to my place every night with groceries, we'd cook, watch tv, just hang out and we had so much fun, just being together, so comfortable.

 

Nevertheless, I didn't feel that "something something" about him that I knew I should feel, and wanted to feel!

 

I remember telling my mom that I wanted to be able to make love with my boyfriend and really enjoy it, like really enjoy it!!

 

She was old school and said I would learn to enjoy it. So we got engaged and proceeded with planning the wedding!

 

That lasted a few more months until I started getting really scared, because I just knew deep in my soul that I wanted and needed more.

 

I knew a deep and passionate love was awaiting me. So I ended the engagement; it was one of the hardest things I ever did, lots of tears (more his) which broke my heart so bad, seeing him crying like that still haunts me to this day!!

 

Literally around two weeks later, I met my third long term boyfriend at an event one evening. It was literally love at first sight, well probably not real love but a very deep and intense attraction, nothing I had EVER experienced prior.

 

We had sex the very night we met and it was the most beautiful, intense, mind-blowing experience I had ever had with a man. And continued to be for the next six years!

 

We got engaged after five and a half, but sadly he became involved with drugs, and our RL crumbled and I ended it.

 

I have a new bf now and am in love with him, and even though I no longer love my ex, I will never forget how I did feel about him, the passion, the intensity, the love.

 

Again, I can't tell you what to do, you have to decide that for yourself. Only to say I don't regret ending my RL with my second bf for one second.

 

It opened me up to the love and passion I felt with my ex and of course my new boyfriend. Emotions I never would have experienced had I remained with and married my second bf.

 

Best of luck whatever you decide!

 

Thank you so much for sharing this, Katrina. I can relate to a lot of this, emotion-wise, and have been struggling with knowing I want to and should feel more but trying to settle with what I have. It's like you read my mind somehow.

 

I don't have much to add here as I've never experienced something like being engaged etc., but know you're not alone, OP :) All I can say is, like Katrina has, I have recently experienced real passion for the first time, and never would have known I was actually capable of feeling like that until I felt like that. I legitimately believed I would simply never be able to feel passionate about anyone, and that something like that would never happen to me, even though that thought really hurt, especially when I knew something was missing and that I needed more. But after it did happen, it made me really question my bond with the person I had been seeing previously, as it definitely didn't make me feel alive in the same way. Even though I still struggle with these thoughts, I now know that I'm capable of these intense emotions about someone I love, just as anyone else is. Now that I've experienced what I have, I just feel like I owe it to myself to be with someone who can bring out the best in me. Just some food for thought :) Best wishes.

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@katrina1980 and @amii1 thank you for sharing your thoughts and story, i am glad to hear you have recently experienced real passion for the first time, i wish you best of luck

 

Katrina’s story actually reminds me of my relationship with my last boyfriend, we dated for 5.5 years, not engaged yet but he started to bring up marriage. like you, I was getting scared, not because my soul needed more though, but because i simply didn’t feel comfortable around him, he made me feel unsafe somehow, it was hard to pin point what’s going on exactly. we broke up so many times, we only got back together because he cried a lot and begged me to stay with him, and like you, it still haunts me whenever i think about it, and like you it was one of the hardest decision i had to make, i felt guilty, everything ‘seemed’ great, but my heart/instinct/gut feeling said otherwise. this is a totally different dilemma. i think i should be with him yet i couldn’t help the nagging voice inside me, saying that ‘i don’t want to be with him’ but with my fiance i know deep down this is what i want,what i look for. instead of longing for deeper connection, it’s more accurate to say my mind (not my heart) is just worried people should only marry people they feel ‘passionate’ love with.

 

in fact...i really don’t like the idea of falling for someone too deep as it will make myself vulnerable. but still, i want to love my fiance a bit more deeper than now in the hope it will strengthen our bond and will make him happier. he often says that he’s really happy with me and i want to make him even happier. so my question is, does it grow? or is there anything i can do?

 

but really, i appreciate your support on this, (and thanks to anyone who sent me the ‘reputation message (?)’ sadly i am unable to write a reply)

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in fact...i really don’t like the idea of falling for someone too deep as it will make myself vulnerable.

 

What do you mean, exactly, by "too vulnerable?" Do you mean that you might get really hurt? Did you get really hurt by that one big love, in high school?

 

I can't help but pick up on a sense that you are really scared of experiencing some kind of pain, of losing control, and that fear has you kind of suspended in a state of emotional unavailability that you're working overtime to rationalize as, well, you. I can relate to this, believe me. I've been in relationships that "worked" because I only had to reveal 30 percent of myself, to only use 30 percent of my heart, and I channeled a lot of mental jujitsu into making that a story I could live with, be comfortable with.

 

They were not awful—two of them lasted longer than yours as lasted—but there was a loneliness to it, a loneliness that, over time, led to cravings for something more that I just couldn't suppress. Hard as I tried to convince myself that was okay—that it was just my nature, that I was veiled and too complicated to be exposed, etc.—time proved otherwise. Those relationships worked because I wanted to be a bit guarded, not because I am guarded. They worked because they provided a safe haven to avoid some issues in my own spirit—at least until those issues demanded to be reckoned with, or those relationships took a turn, over time, where there was no more ignoring whatever I'd stuffed into the back of the closet.

 

But, again, that's just me. You're you.

 

The other thing that struck me was your mention, in an earlier post, of your brother's calling what you have right now real love and what you had before "puppy love." Fine. But your brother is not you, not in your heart. I can only speak for myself, but whenever I've relied heavily on the opinions of others to understand my relationship it has meant that there is something—maybe something I can't even articulate—that is lacking. When I've been confident in something I never cared what anyone thought or needed someone to tell me if my feelings were "right" or "okay" or "enough."

 

But, again, just me.

 

You're going to make the choice that works for you, and I wish you all the best. I like the way your head works. I can't help but detect a hungry heart beating a foot or so below that head, and a neglected heart—not one neglected by your fiancé, but by you. And maybe that works for you right now, and will work for you in a marriage. Less "passion," sure, but also less pain. Everyone has different needs, different priorities, different thresholds.

 

Here's the thing, or at least the thing I've learned, about vulnerability: there is no avoiding it. You are vulnerable right now, at all sorts of risk. So am I. So is everyone. It's kind of the default state, and the most honest state. Learning to embrace that—first with yourself, then alongside another—is pretty spectacular. It's not a movie, but the opposite: it's life, and being alive, no getting around it, no hedging against it.

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Thank you bluecastle for your thoughtful response and sharing your own experience, i pretty much agree with what you’ve said. in answer to your question, it’s hard to explain what i mean by ‘too vulnerable’..i like to maintain the sense of emotional independence, if that makes any sense. that’s why i also only have ‘superficial’ friendships. i do have close friends, but i don’t necessarily form close and ‘deep’ friendship with them. in fact, my fiance is one of very very selected few people that i allow myself to get attached (to some degree)

 

‘Learning to embrace that—first with yourself, then alongside another—is pretty spectacular. It's not a movie, but the opposite: it's life, and being alive, no getting around it, no hedging against it’

yeah this is a good way to look at it, hopefully i’ll learn to embrace that naturally over time, I’m still young so i realize there’s so much more to learn

 

@Wiseman2

although i don’t think it was just a puppy love...I really hope he is right about that :)

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crscnt, I am also wondering about your emotional availability. After reading your subsequent posts describing your fear of experiencing deep emotions and vulnerability, I wonder what your reaction would be if you did spontaneously meet a man who evoked those emotions in you?

 

I disagree you have control over that, such emotions are intangible and they can hit you like a ton of bricks when you least expect it.

 

Anyway, if you did meet someone who evoked those deep emotions in you, how would you react? Would you embrace those emotions, or would you try to distance yourself from them by pulling or running away from the person who evoked them?

 

Those who are emotionally unavailable, or have emotional intimacy/commitment fears will do this, is this you? If they don't run away, it's a constant push/pull in the extreme in an attempt to "control" their feelings, which ultimately wreaks havoc on the relationship and those involved.

 

Commitment "phobia" is an interesting phenomenon, because many people with intimacy and commitment fears/phobia can commit and do commit, but only with those people who don’t evoke such deep and passionate feelings/emotions in them.

 

The fear is only triggered when they do experience those deep emotions and vulnerability (which go hand in hand); many people describe it as "losing themselves," or falling deep into a hole.

 

I am not judging you, if are unable to emotionally “handle” deep emotion, an intense passion or feeling vulnerable, that is certainly your prerogative. But imo you’re missing out, cause it truly is a beautiful thing.

 

I dunno, if this were me, I might consider looking into getting some therapy to determine where your fears stem from. Because they’re coming from somewhere, such fears don’t just “happen,” we’re not born with them, imo.

 

If you're content with the status quo, that’s fine but if you do want more for yourself with respect to your relationships, there is a book I recommend you read; it was literally my “bible” many years ago – it’s called “He’s Scared, She’s Scared – The Hidden Fears that Sabotage our Relationships.”

 

It discusses attachment issues, emotional unavailability, emotional intimacy/commitment fears.

 

It helped me A LOT, perhaps it might help you too, good luck!

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Emotional independence makes perfect sense to me. But there is a big difference between being emotionally "independent" and emotionally "closed off," and I'm wondering if you're defining the latter as the former. The former is a natural state, the latter a defensive one, a coping mechanism created to...well, per Katrina's post, to cope with what? I’m curious too, as it seems there is some kind of deep aversion to pain inside of you, either a fear of re-expriencing pain you’ve felt in the past or pain you’re afraid of imagining in the future.

 

Something you might enjoy reading, given your searching head and heart: "On Love and Other Difficulties," by Rilke. It kind of set the benchmark for me about what passionate, adult love is, which he basically defines as a mutual respect and cherishing of emotional independence—the stuff you don't know about a person, and can never know, as much as what is known. Given that he was a poet with a notorious love of women, I think we can also assume that passionate sex was part of the equation—the entry point, you could say, to the deeper currents he talks about. And if he were alive today I suspect he’d value those Netflix-and-chill spoon sessions; he was, like you and I, a human being...

 

Anyhow, a famous quote of his: "The point of marriage is not to create a quick commonality by tearing down all boundaries; on the contrary, a good marriage is one in which each partner appoints the other to be the guardian of his solitude, and thus they show each other the greatest possible trust. A merging of two people is an impossibility, and where it seems to exist, it is a hemming-in, a mutual consent that robs one party or both parties of their fullest freedom and development. But once the realization is accepted that even between the closest people infinite distances exist, a marvelous living side-by-side can grow up for them, if they succeed in loving the expanse between them, which gives them the possibility of always seeing each other as a whole and before an immense sky.”

 

I've read that a zillion times and get goosebumps every damn time. It's not Hallmark, you see? It's not a rom-com. It's not "You complete me." Indeed, he's basically calling bs on "Jerry McGuire" a century before that movie was made, saying that sort of love is not only shallow but a recipe for spiritual suffocation; it has an expiration date. But nor is he advocating for the lukewarm nobility of a sizzle-free union in which vulnerability is traded in for “comfort,” since that’s really just the flip side to the same soul-stifling coin, just as shallow.

 

What's in the middle? Or in the depths?

 

It's even better than those two extremes, more passionate, because it’s based on true vulnerability and availability, something that can coexist harmoniously with “emotional independence." It’s a celebration that people and life are mysteries that can never quite be solved—that to fully "see" another person, and "be seen," means (follow me here) accepting that there is always more to see and always things you can’t, and may never, see. It’s surrendering to uncertainty, and doing it alongside someone, rather than using a relationship or marriage as a false fortress to shield you from pain and uncertainty—be it the shield of “passion” or the shield of “comfort.”

 

Live long enough and you realize life will pierce both of those, repeatedly.

 

I can’t tell you what to do. It’s very hard, reading your posts, not to get the sense of someone who is in a defensive stance, making choices based more on fear than curiosity, wonder, and an acceptance of uncertainty and the fact that pain is coming your way no matter which way you step. You have a partner that supports you in that position, who is happy to reward what sounds a lot like commitment fears with commitment. As Katrina said, there are many relationships that "work" with this dynamic. Whether that is enough for you—and him—is a question only you two can answer.

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@katrina1980 @bluecastle

thanks for the book recommendation :) they look interesting, i’ll def check it out

 

i like the way marriage is defined/described in that quotes, bluecastle.

 

hmm does that mean i have commitment phobia? or fear to commit? because i think i always fully commit to relationship i have/had.. unless i get the meaning wrong

 

ah btw I’m not a native speaker so yeah please excuse any mistakes

 

@katrina before meeting my current partner, someone ‘did’ evoke that feelings in me, i because he possesed some qualities that i’ve never seen in other people, the feeling was somehow similar to my feelings towards that ex in high school. he once said he had feelings for me, but we didn’t date ofc. we’re just friends. how did i react? my mind said no, so the feelings stopped (easily) we remain close friends until this day though. so yeah the conclusion.. hard to tell.. i really don’t know if i’ll push them away or embrace those emotions, speaking from my experience so far. and i’ve never met love that can surpass my logic and i always think i can control it, but maybe i am wrong.

 

but yeah speaking of those fears you both explained, i’m confused too because actually, with my fiance, i’ve always had this conflicting thoughts. i both struggle wanting to love him and to not love him if you get what i mean. yeah, my original post might support the former, but i sometimes do really feel like i’m trying hard not to get attached at the same time. so yeah o.0 (but i get deeply attached to my dog, and non living things) i don’t seem to recall ever experiencing huge dissapointment though, so i am not sure honestly where my fears stem from, it’s just complicated

 

but I’ll try to improve this relationship, to improve myself since i’m committed to making this work, but yeah change doesn’t happen overnight.

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Can you postpone the wedding? What's the hurry? What "ppl" are telling you all this? It sounds like your family and culture are pressuring you to marry and you are simply not ready.

I wouldn't call off the marriage but ppl's statement about 'one should marry someone he/she loves very deeply' has been bothering me for sooo long.

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I very much relate to you, crscnt. I think most people can.

 

I'm 39 and have been in 4 longterm relationships in my adult life. Two (at 23 and 31) have been a very natural love, passionate and gentle, mysterious and comforting; it just evolved, not unlike the way two chemicals poured into one beaker can make some wild colors and bubbles: a feeling bigger than my imagination, and so there was no anxiety about it, no questions, no tricks I needed the magician of my mind to perform to convince my heart to beat in a certain way. When I said "I love you" to those women it was a simple statement—no different, really, than saying the earth is round or the sky is blue. A hard, profound fact. And such a beautiful one to build and share with someone, even if the sharing was not "forever."

 

The other two (at 27 and 35) were more complicated, in large part because I was in a complicated headspace when I got into those relationships. Or maybe not complicated. Probably I just wasn't ready, was still grieving those past loves and whatever deeper waters they stirred in me. I wasn't available emotionally, and I found women who, for whatever reason, were willing to "put up" with that state. An issue in them connecting to an issue in me. Another kind of chemistry experiment, but a more volatile one. Not an uncommon dynamic, of course, given that humans are influenced by a lot of forces: a desire for connection, for intimacy, as well as cultural and social pressures that tell us we "should" be in a relationship. In those cases, I think the dominant feeling was less "love" than "really, really wanting it to be love." Because those women were great, and loved me, so what was wrong with me, I often wondered, for not loving them back in the same way?

 

All of those relationships have been valuable to me. I know what the big love feels like, which is important. It's not abstract, and remains the north star to my compass. That those big loves didn't evolve into marriage is okay; doesn't mean my compass is broken. Youth, people, life, maturity, itches, timing, etc.—lots of moving pieces need to align for a choice like that to make sense. And the ones the were built on a more questionable foundation—well, there was plenty there too. Sexual awakenings that helped me understand my body, intellectual connections that expanded my outlook—and not-so-healthy stuff that forced me to do some digging and reflecting, to pry parts of me open that had been closed along the way, blown shut by the strange winds life throws at you.

 

I do wonder, along with Wiseman, what the rush is to get married. I felt a bit of that pressure when I was younger—around 25, say—because it was what you were "supposed" to do, supposed to think about, some kind of check that allowed admittance to the world of adulthood. Letting go of all that was among the most freeing—and honest—chapters of my life. It removed the pressure of what romance was supposed to be and gave me space to define it for myself. That's taken real time, and remains ongoing. As you can deduce from my dating history, it has not been a clear path where each relationship is "better, more functional, more loving" than the last; more of a zigzag, but always toward a clearer light, as life tends to be a bit of a zigzag.

 

It's really taken me until now—the cusp of 40—to feel settled enough in my spirit not just to imagine lifelong partnership but to know, in my cells, that I've got the tools for it. For some people that comes earlier, for others later, still others it's not even something they want. None of those paths are more noble. Where things get hard is when we try to force something into a shape it's not meant to take—be that something ourselves, another person, a relationship. Something to maybe think about as you flick around the prism of your own life, trying to understand it all.

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