Stupid Argument - Venting

[Annia]

Yes you should move the f*ck on if he treats you badly and doesn't respect you.

[Seraphim]

Sorry people, I know that's out of topic but what does soiled mean? English is not my first language and I don't have babies and can't find the meaning in this context online

Does it mean "pooped all over"? Lol

It means a poopy diaper.

[Jbabygirl]

That is true thank you. How so though? “Outlining expectations of each other regarding childcare”

[Jbabygirl]

Thank you for this advice. I will definitely sit down with him and communicate And thank you for going by this one post

[Jbabygirl]

He doesn’t treat me badly though I’m not sure where you are getting that from? If it’s stuff from my older posts then I don’t know what to say because that’s in the past

[Batya33]

That is true thank you. How so though? “Outlining expectations of each other regarding childcare”

 

How? When you are calm you sit down. Face to face. You tell him that you're going to listen to each other about how you see your roles as far as work/childcare/house cleaning etc. And also be clear that of course there needs to be flexibility because raising a child is inherently unpredictable.

 

Before you sit down make a wish list. The things you know you need in order to keep your sanity. So for example, do you want him to come home and take over right away (meaning playing/diaper change, bath, whatever). Does he have to let you know if he's going to be late and if so how long in advance usually?

Who gets up in the middle of the night if the baby needs something (what's the default I mean of course with flexibility)

When he is not working at all during a particular day what are your expectations as to his role - can he sleep in and if so how long or is there a limit? If you have to do shopping or other errands do you want him to stay with the baby, does the whole family go, do you take the baby.

Do you have self-care stuff you need every day or nearly so - do you work out, and if so is it at home, outside, a combo -what about child care during those times or is that on you? Do you need to shower at a certain time of day or are you flexible?

 

Then listen to his expectations. He is working outside the home, you are working inside the home. Ask him what he needs in order to get to work reasonably alert and ready to be productive and what he needs when he gets home.

 

How do each of you feel about spending $ on housecleaning, food prep/food delivery/sitters/mother's helper, etc?

 

And again, flexibility. So if you can have an adult convo like this you can continue to have an adult convo when stuff comes up, as it inevitably will.

 

Did I do this long convo with my husband? No, not as long and in some cases that was a mistake but in other cases he was a very involved parent from when I was pregnant until after. He encouraged me to hire a housecleaner as often as I wanted or sitters, etc (I did the former and did the latter part time for two summers when we lived away). He changed diapers from the get go and got up at night before he was sleeping through the night (and he was on leave for part of that time).

 

And over the years I've had to speak up in a reasonable way and even recognize my own needs -to eat in peace whenever I can, to have time to exercise daily even when our child is home from school, etc., But my expectations differed from some other full time parents -I saw my role as being 95% responsible for everything while I was home full time (for 7 years). But, I contributed to the the famiy income every month even though I wasn't working. I wasn't asked to but I will tell you that contributing financially made me feel better, more balanced - I certainly worked my tail off being home full time but this way I didn't feel financially dependent and it felt great that he didn't expect a financial contribution from me.

 

Also I loved being a full time parent for those years. Loved. So sometimes there was resentment but since I worked full time crazy hours for almost 15 years before becoming a mom I related 100% to what he went through working at a similar job (a little less crazy but more travel). If he'd had more normal office hours my expectations likely would have been higher as far as what I expected him to do. Also we had a lot of love including love for our family, feeling thrilled to be parents, so lucky, so blessed. There are so many individual factors which is why you must get your expectations clear in your head and communicate them clearly and respectfully. And listen to him with total respect and care -put those phones away, no screens. Face to face.

 

Good luck.

[pippy longstocking]

I think Batya has covered everything in a wonderful post .

 

Best wishes to you x

[mustlovedogs]

Your stuff in the past is relevant. Ignoring it is naive.

[Annia]

How? When you are calm you sit down. Face to face. You tell him that you're going to listen to each other about how you see your roles as far as work/childcare/house cleaning etc. And also be clear that of course there needs to be flexibility because raising a child is inherently unpredictable.

 

Before you sit down make a wish list. The things you know you need in order to keep your sanity. So for example, do you want him to come home and take over right away (meaning playing/diaper change, bath, whatever). Does he have to let you know if he's going to be late and if so how long in advance usually?

Who gets up in the middle of the night if the baby needs something (what's the default I mean of course with flexibility)

When he is not working at all during a particular day what are your expectations as to his role - can he sleep in and if so how long or is there a limit? If you have to do shopping or other errands do you want him to stay with the baby, does the whole family go, do you take the baby.

Do you have self-care stuff you need every day or nearly so - do you work out, and if so is it at home, outside, a combo -what about child care during those times or is that on you? Do you need to shower at a certain time of day or are you flexible?

 

Then listen to his expectations. He is working outside the home, you are working inside the home. Ask him what he needs in order to get to work reasonably alert and ready to be productive and what he needs when he gets home.

 

How do each of you feel about spending $ on housecleaning, food prep/food delivery/sitters/mother's helper, etc?

 

And again, flexibility. So if you can have an adult convo like this you can continue to have an adult convo when stuff comes up, as it inevitably will.

 

Did I do this long convo with my husband? No, not as long and in some cases that was a mistake but in other cases he was a very involved parent from when I was pregnant until after. He encouraged me to hire a housecleaner as often as I wanted or sitters, etc (I did the former and did the latter part time for two summers when we lived away). He changed diapers from the get go and got up at night before he was sleeping through the night (and he was on leave for part of that time).

 

And over the years I've had to speak up in a reasonable way and even recognize my own needs -to eat in peace whenever I can, to have time to exercise daily even when our child is home from school, etc., But my expectations differed from some other full time parents -I saw my role as being 95% responsible for everything while I was home full time (for 7 years). But, I contributed to the the famiy income every month even though I wasn't working. I wasn't asked to but I will tell you that contributing financially made me feel better, more balanced - I certainly worked my tail off being home full time but this way I didn't feel financially dependent and it felt great that he didn't expect a financial contribution from me.

 

Also I loved being a full time parent for those years. Loved. So sometimes there was resentment but since I worked full time crazy hours for almost 15 years before becoming a mom I related 100% to what he went through working at a similar job (a little less crazy but more travel). If he'd had more normal office hours my expectations likely would have been higher as far as what I expected him to do. Also we had a lot of love including love for our family, feeling thrilled to be parents, so lucky, so blessed. There are so many individual factors which is why you must get your expectations clear in your head and communicate them clearly and respectfully. And listen to him with total respect and care -put those phones away, no screens. Face to face.

 

Good luck.

 

I'm not married or cohabiting with anyone but love reading your posts about these things. It teaches me a lot to also communicate better in my daily life and manage my relationships better in general.

 

Great advice and I think this is exactly what the OP needs.

[Annia]

Your stuff in the past is relevant. Ignoring it is naive.

 

If these past issues weren't properly addressed then swiping them under the rug will only make it worse... It'll snowball into an avalanche.

[Batya33]

I'm not married or cohabiting with anyone but love reading your posts about these things. It teaches me a lot to also communicate better in my daily life and manage my relationships better in general.

 

Great advice and I think this is exactly what the OP needs.

 

Oh thank you. Work in progress over here. Of course we have petty stupid arguments and it's not perfect by far but it's what I have learned with a huge dose of humility. Also helps that we are in our early 50s, became parents in our early 40s so we did lots of living for many years before and there's far less of a need to go out on the town and live the glamorous life lol. Give me cozy pajama like clothes and a throw blanket and my book and some tasty carbs (and morning coffee - I married a non-coffee drinker so I don't have to share) and I'm good to go. Would not have been true 20-25 years ago but is now. All about expectations.

[Starlight925]

Great advice Batya. But.....did your husband cheat on you while you were pregnant? Would your advice change if he had?

 

Asking for a friend.

[Jbabygirl]

Yeah I understand completely but they have been addressed

[Jbabygirl]

Thank you thank you thank you!

[Batya33]

Great advice Batya. But.....did your husband cheat on you while you were pregnant? Would your advice change if he had?

 

Asking for a friend.

 

Um no. I wouldn't have married him if there had been infidelity or anything similar. And i'm fairly confident the reverse would be true. I do see his non-coffee drinking as a betrayal of sorts lol as he probably sees my lack of fidelity to Star Trek ...... but not really dealbreakers ;-) I was responding to the specific question as to how to communicate expectations concerning childcare when one parent is home full time and one works outside the home (obviously it can apply even if both work outside the home but in my experience there are some unique concerns when one is home full time).

 

On the infidelity issue -editing to clarify -that is what I would have done. I am not judging someone who chooses to stay despite infidelity. And people have different definitions of infidelity. Maybe I haven't read the OP's previous posts and there was infidelity? If so and if she also doesn't have a financial nest egg then I would see the relationship as fairly unstable -meaning the combination of infidelity plus she is kind of trapped financially. It's hard enough to work out all the parental roles/division of labor (especially in our case where we became parents shortly after marriage, relocated shortly after marriage for the first time in 4 decades for me - from my hometown plus was unemployed for basically my first time in my life, and my post-pregnancy health condition, wow. It is hard enough without issues like infidelity!!

[Jbabygirl]

I was cheated on by my boyfriend last year (I was pregnant at the time) I didn’t find out about it until this year in October. I came on here to vent and ask for advice about it and I got a ton of responses. We’ve talked it out and are trying to move forward because we love each other and we love our child but every time I post on here looking for advice, people want to throw that back on me. It’s okay though because it is out there for everyone to read! So I get it.

[Batya33]

I was cheated on by my boyfriend last year (I was pregnant at the time) I didn’t find out about it until this year in October. I came on here to vent and ask for advice about it and I got a ton of responses. We’ve talked it out and are trying to move forward because we love each other and we love our child but every time I post on here looking for advice, people want to throw that back on me. It’s okay though because it is out there for everyone to read! So I get it.

 

It's not being thrown back at you IMO. I think it belongs in the mix because my sense is that the source of many of the arguments is leftover anger/resentment from that time period especially since you didn't know at the time and found out after. "Trying" is not relevant here -what are you two actually doing -actions - to "move forward" - get really specific with yourself because there is no trying -there's doing and not doing. Love is a great feeling and when you have a child the love is so much about the tiny nitty gritty ways you show love to each other and your child. It's not about feelings as much as it is about giving love which can be really hard when you're sleep deprived and with a baby/young child all day.

[Jbabygirl]

You’re right. Well one of the things that we started doing is having date nights a couple times a month

[Batya33]

You’re right. Well one of the things that we started doing is having date nights a couple times a month

 

OK that's a concrete action that you've chosen to spend time together in a positive way.

[Annia]

You’re right. Well one of the things that we started doing is having date nights a couple times a month

 

This is great. Is he acting more transparent or trying to show you that you can trust him?

[ThatwasThen]

Look: If you are going to be a stay at home mom then it's your job to change the baby's diaper ESPECIALLY if your partner just vented to you about how hard his day was and how tired he is because of it.

 

You need to learn to pick your battles if you want to be happy. ... and FWIW changing a diaper is not considered "spending time with your child." It is a necessity that you should have taken care of and then got him to do diaper duty at a time when he just didn't finish venting to you about how hard his day was. Now, if you work as well then he needs to suck it up and do his share of taking care of your baby's necessities and not expect you to do it just because you're the woman. Do you see?

[Batya33]

Look: If you are going to be a stay at home mom then it's your job to change the baby's diaper ESPECIALLY if your partner just vented to you about how hard his day was and how tired he is because of it.

 

You need to learn to pick your battles if you want to be happy. ... and FWIW changing a diaper is not considered "spending time with your child." It is a necessity that you should have taken care of and then got him to do diaper duty at a time when he just didn't finish venting to you about how hard his day was. Now, if you work as well then he needs to suck it up and do his share of taking care of your baby's necessities and not expect you to do it just because you're the woman. Do you see?

 

I agree with this and again it depends on the conversation they've had. In my home, when my husband came home he was on duty including the other spelling of duty lol. Changing a diaper was not "my job" at that point - we didn't have that whole Rockwellian "greet your husband with his slippers ,a drink and the children fresh from the bath". I'd been changing diapers for the last 13 hours, approximately every 2 hours so with rare exception it was his turn. And, yes, if he told me he was really tired or whatever -that was an exception and I'd step in just like he would for me (part of the flexibility I wrote about). There were many nights he had a business dinner or was away on business travel or travel to care for his aging parents so then it was all on me, 24/7 and I signed up for that. I knew when we were dating what his schedule/lifestyle was like, I knew what his family situation was and our geographic relocation. And then there are so many things that are unpredictable so the more you can talk about things in advance the more you can deal with all the curveballs.

[itsallgrand]

I definitely do think if you are a stay at home mom with no income, and your partner cheated on you when you were pregnant, that puts ten times more stress on the situation than there otherwise would be.

I sincerely hope you have income, skills for the workforce, alternate childcare options, support system beyond your partner in place. I feel strongly about that for everyone, but throw infidelity in the mix, I think it's downright playing with disaster and your child's stability and future if you are going on blind hope and faith this particular arrangement works out.

[Batya33]

I definitely do think if you are a stay at home mom with no income, and your partner cheated on you when you were pregnant, that puts ten times more stress on the situation than there otherwise would be.

I sincerely hope you have income, skills for the workforce, alternate childcare options, support system beyond your partner in place. I feel strongly about that for everyone, but throw infidelity in the mix, I think it's downright playing with disaster and your child's stability and future if you are going on blind hope and faith this particular arrangement works out.

 

Yes, I could not agree more. Date nights are nice if the purpose is to have couple time where you communicate effectively because right now you don't have the luxury of lighthearted fun like going to see a movie where you don't talk things out. Also have date mornings where you sit down for 10 minutes with no phones/screens and talk over coffee or breakfast.

[catfeeder]

Look: If you are going to be a stay at home mom then it's your job to change the baby's diaper ESPECIALLY if your partner just vented to you about how hard his day was and how tired he is because of it.

 

Yep. Choosing the moment that a partner is complaining as the one to ask for help is not a great tactic for gaining cooperation. It probably felt dismissive to him, and that's lousy strategy for modeling to a partner how to listen to YOUR complaints when you want him to hear YOU. It sends the message, "Your problems mean nothing to me, so here--let me add mine to yours."

 

It might help to first consider managing your household 'AS IF' you are a single parent--without building a mental pile-up of expectations of partner. Instead, build a list of tasks you could assign to someone else. Then negotiate your list with partner to give him the options of which tasks you can hire out to a service versus which ones he may want to take on instead.

 

Don't have the funds to hire out? Negotiate your homemaker salary with partner as something he'd need to pay someone else to do anyway. Then combine that with strategies to earn more of your own money. Then you can hire out any tasks that you'd rather not do.