I feel like I am better than the guy I am dating in every way :(

[Last Gentleman]

Interesting what you said about the arts, Katrina - me too, so much (and I always have been drawn to creative types) but I preferred not to marry a full time artist because of the typical financial instability that comes with it - I did date an artist who ended up making it big - and it is very well-deserved- I would have continued to date him had I been physically attracted to him and I wasn't,

 

In my case my husband and I were in the same career when we met. On our very first lunch date -we were in our late 20s - the first question he asked me after we sat down (maybe the third but within the first few minutes) was why I chose the career I did and he told me later it was important to him to know the answer. And I had a long and (to me interesting) back story which he said he enjoyed. He would not have dated someone who was not well-educated and career-oriented no matter how pretty she was -and he never did. His mother was both of those things and, interestingly he also was very supportive of my being a full time parent for the 7 years I did it and loved that his mom made the same choice. So it's not all black and white and of course it's individual.

 

The other guy I was very serious with in my 30s for 7 years also cared a lot about my career, work ethic, professional goals (same career, again) and cared a lot about dating and being around people who were intelligent, diverse, culturally aware and involved etc. I know he had a concern about marrying someone who wanted to be home full time because she didn't have professional skills and wasn't motivated to pursue an outside career -not because he judged the women who made that choice -because he wouldn't have had enough in common with someone who didn't have professional goals as well.

 

Every man I was seriously involved with once I was in grad school/applying to grad school cared a lot about all of those professional-related and academic goals and attributes. And so did I -nothing to do with "title" but everything to do with substance and common values/goals.

 

And yes looks were very important (not meaning that I am a model- meaning it was important to find your partner attractive of course) -but just as important as what I wrote above.

 

I dated some men who didn't care what I did for a living or what my professional ambitions were, or about the volunteer work I did - they enjoyed having interesting conversations and I think ultimately we wouldn't have had a lot in common especially if that would not have meant supporting my decision to return to my career after being a full time parent.

 

I don't think it's that gender specific at least not anymore -I see tons of posts on my local moms group (thousands of members) where the marital disagreements revolve around whether the full time parent is doing a "real" job, the financial ability of the woman to provide to the family income while she is at home or working only part time, women who are bored being home and want to return to work but the husbands are more traditional - and either that is because (a) it wasn't spoken of before the marriage or (b) it was and someone changed his/her mind. I think (a) can be prevented by not making assumptions based on gender and having the nitty gritty conversations before getting engaged/married.

 

Well it seems for you career is important and you attracted people that thought so too, there's nothing wrong with that, but I think your experience shows you still weren't closed to dating other men and I'm still quite sure, that as we age especially men, seek different things, which might be why some people around 40 feel so disconnected sometimes !

When I was in my 20s I was really into the energetic and exuberant girls around me, later far less and now as I realise I would like a family, I'm very much into grounded and feminine women !

But I'm not reducing people to height, money and carreer, I mean these are no standards, that's seeing people as things rather than humans !

 

But to each their own, my point was the OP just seems like she's the best woman on earth, that's her perception of herself based on HER values.

But a man around her doesn't have the same perception of her, according to HIS values, which can be totally different from hers as well.

So thinking you're a queen in the eyes of everyone always is very delusional !

[katrina1980]

@ Last Gentlemen, you keep emphasizing your need for a "feminine" woman. Which is fine, I seek a "masculine" man.

 

But wondering, how are you defining "feminine" in the context of a romantic relationship? Or in any context?

 

I could be wrong but you make it sound like some sort of "role" with certain behaviors and responses.

 

To me, and in describing myself, femininity is my "essence." My being. How I speak, carry myself, etc. Men have told me this, but I know it too. It's one of my best assets!

 

Anyway, in my 20s and early 30s, I was quite driven professionally. In my late 30s now and am where I wish to be, so my professional drive has toned down.

 

I also take initiative with men, for example I will strike up a conversation with a man if the opp presents itself, I initiate texts, suggest and plan a date. Other things that one might typically consider "masculine."

 

No matter how or what I'm saying, doing or acting though, always maintaining my feminine nature/essence the entire time. It's just "there," my energy/vibe.

 

So again I ask, how are you defining it?

[Last Gentleman]

@ Last Gentlemen, you keep emphasizing your need for a "feminine" woman. Which is fine, I seek a "masculine" man.

 

But wondering, how are you defining "feminine" in the context of a romantic relationship? Or in any context?

 

I could be wrong but you make it sound like some sort of "role" with certain behaviors and responses.

 

To me, and in describing myself, femininity is my "essence." My being. How I speak, carry myself, etc. Men have told me this, but I know it too.

 

In my 20s and early 30s, I was quite driven professionally. In my late 30s now and am where I wish to be, so my professional drive has toned down.

 

I also take initiative with men, for example I will strike up a conversation with a man if the opp presents itself, I initiate texts, suggest and plan a date. Other things that one might typically consider "masculine."

 

No matter how or what I'm saying, doing or acting though, always maintaining my feminine nature/essence the entire time. It's just "there," my energy/vibe.

 

So again I ask, how are you defining it?

 

I define it by first, a woman that dresses not extremely provocatively but embraces her femininity, she can also be in allovers or sports clothes, but retains a woman's elegance with how she walks and moves.

Secondly having this graceful presence, that invites men talk to her and feel they are welcome, still she has firm boundaries and self respect, she doesn't need to swear or scream !

Third she realizes she has different strengths being a woman, that will complete her male partner while also taking her responsibilities in the partnership.

 

So all I'm asking as a man is to be understood by a woman and respected for who I am, that's all ! Well to me you are a unicorn then, I have literally never had a woman initiate talking in Switzerland, in Poland,

Holland, Sweden and Germany yes, but unfortunately not in my city, no woman ever invited me on a diner or date and always let men do the first step, I would be delighted to meet a woman of your caliber,

unfortunately in my society I think it's extremely rare !

 

The other day I had to go to the lab in my town, going by the bus the university students use, let me tell you what I saw there among the girls, this is quite telling !

First they used swearing every 5 words, when they addressed other girls they used the equivalent of dude in French and most of them had a very strange way of carrying themselves, almost walking like the

boys... these are 18 and above and I see these behaviors as well in 20 to 27 women when I go out on weekends, so sorry ladies I don't find this attractive for one bit !

[katrina1980]

I define it by first, a woman that dresses not extremely provocatively but embraces her femininity, she can also be in allovers or sports clothes, but retains a woman's elegance with how she walks and moves.

Secondly having this graceful presence, that invites men talk to her and feel they are welcome, still she has firm boundaries and self respect, she doesn't need to swear or scream !

Third she realizes she has different strengths being a woman, that will complete her male partner while also taking her responsibilities in the partnership.

 

The other day I had to go to the lab in my town, going by the bus the university students use, let me tell you what I saw there among the girls, this is quite telling !

First they used swearing every 5 words, when they addressed other girls they used the equivalent of dude in French and most of them had a very strange way of carrying themselves, almost walking like the

boys... these are 18 and above and I see these behaviors as well in 20 to 27 women when I go out on weekends, so sorry ladies I don't find this attractive for one bit !

 

Thanks for responding, yeah you and I agree then, what you just described above (first para) is her general nature, again (and sorry to keep using this word but I quite like it and find it apropos) -- her "essence." Her energy.

[Last Gentleman]

Thanks for responding, yeah you and I agree then, what you just described above (first para) is her general nature, again (and sorry to keep using this word but I quite like it and find it apropos) -- her "essence." Her energy.

 

I would characterise men as being the building force and women as inspiration of this world !

But having traveled a lot, I can't really find this grace in Europe so much nowadays, I see this in eastern countries a lot and also in some more open arabic countries, women have a very different rapport to men and exude something very intoxicating !

But sorry I'm drifting off topic here !

[Pleasedonot5]

I'm going to disagree with some people here - I'm a man, and I think the career choice of my future partner is very important, and I consider that before asking someone to be exclusive.

 

It is not the end-all-be-all, but it is important for my partner to have aspirations of success, to have their field be complimentary to mine in some way, and to have their life's work be something I admire (not terribly difficult - I can admire quite a bit). Then again, I'm single and have been for a while so, maybe I'm not the ideal model to follow, haha.

[Batya33]

I would characterise men as being the building force and women as inspiration of this world !

But having traveled a lot, I can't really find this grace in Europe so much nowadays, I see this in eastern countries a lot and also in some more open arabic countries, women have a very different rapport to men and exude something very intoxicating !

But sorry I'm drifting off topic here !

 

Yes and if that comes through in how you interact you're going to have a hard time finding a good match. Really? Only one gender comprises the "building force?"

[Batya33]

I'm going to disagree with some people here - I'm a man, and I think the career choice of my future partner is very important, and I consider that before asking someone to be exclusive.

 

It is not the end-all-be-all, but it is important for my partner to have aspirations of success, to have their field be complimentary to mine in some way, and to have their life's work be something I admire (not terribly difficult - I can admire quite a bit). Then again, I'm single and have been for a while so, maybe I'm not the ideal model to follow, haha.

 

Good for you, as did my husband and many of the men I dated/was seriously involved with even though all were more than fine with my wanting to be the full time parent for longer than the traditional maternity leave. A new young mom recently posted on my moms group - and this is unfortunately typical of several other similar posts - she wanted to know that since she was going to be the full time parent, because day care was prohibitively expensive, what were our suggestions on how she could bring in some income while home? Obviously not all pregnancies are planned. But when they are (as it was here and in the other examples) - what happened to planning in advance for the financial considerations, what happened to having career/job/professional goals in advance so that perhaps if you marry someone who cannot financially provide for the woman to be at home full time, that because of your planning you've at least attempted to build a nest egg or have marketable skills that will permit some very limited part time work at a certain time? Or some academic background or technical license or ---- something? That kind of question when the woman has just had a baby or is about to is mind boggling especially these days.

 

So yes I think men should care about job/career in that context and if that's not a priority I would question the man's core values and what he's really looking for in a match. Obviously I know women who are completely fine with the man's priority being her looks and fitness and she then does what she can to maintain that -a cover for every pot - but that comes with its downsides too.

[Last Gentleman]

Yes and if that comes through in how you interact you're going to have a hard time finding a good match. Really? Only one gender comprises the "building force?"

 

You're taking my phrase too literally, it was in reference to Katrina 1980, speaking of essence of women, well to me when im in a relationship women inspire me to be my best and build something for them ! I'm not being archaic

or suggesting women can't build things or have any careers they want, it was not about the place of a woman in society at all ! I have no problem with a woman doing a more physical or better paid job than me.

 

Still I stand by my claim, if I look back through the years I only dated 1 swiss woman, the other were, Canadian, Polish, Asian, it's not only the exotic element but I am not really in accordance to women behavior in my culture

anymore, I find something was lost a while ago which some other countries managed to keep.

[sky09]

You're taking my phrase too literally, it was in reference to Katrina 1980, speaking of essence of women, well to me when im in a relationship women inspire me to be my best and build something for them ! I'm not being archaic

or suggesting women can't build things or have any careers they want, it was not about the place of a woman in society at all ! I have no problem with a woman doing a more physical or better paid job than me.

 

 

You might be on to something. I don't recall the last time I've seen a woman roofer, carpenter, or plumber.

[katrina1980]

 

Still I stand by my claim, if I look back through the years I only dated 1 swiss woman, the other were, Canadian, Polish, Asian, it's not only the exotic element but I am not really in accordance to women behavior in my culture anymore, I find something was lost a while ago which some other countries managed to keep.

 

I think you’re generalizing a bit LG, I have a good friend who is Canadian (she lives in Montreal), and she can be quite heavy handed in her relationship. Her boyfriend didn’t tolerate it though, so she’s toned it down some. But she is an extremely successful businesswoman and, at least in the early stages of their RL, was the dominating force. Still sort of is, but not as much. It's just her nature, not because of where she's from or her culture.

 

Here in the U.S., you will find a mix of many different types of women and different cultures (I am first generation Lithuanian for example - Eastern/Northern Europe).

 

Here, you will find that some women are more aggressive and dominant, some more passive and submissive, and some in between. There are men here who actually prefer a woman who is more is dominant, some prefer more submissive, and again some a mix of the two. There is someone for everyone (as the saying goes).

 

In my opinion, there is no “right” way for a woman (or anyone) to behave, we all have our own unique styles and natures and we attract people based on our natures and who we are as human beings, not where we’re from or our particular culture.

[Last Gentleman]

I think you’re generalizing a bit LG, I have a good friend who is Canadian (she lives in Montreal), and she can be quite heavy handed in her relationship. Her boyfriend didn’t tolerate it though, so she’s toned it down some. But she is an extremely successful businesswoman and, at least in the early stages of their RL, was the dominating force. Still sort of is, but not as much. It's just her nature, not because of her culture.

 

Here in the U.S., you will find a mix of many different types of women and different cultures (I am first generation Lithuanian for example).

 

Some women are more aggressive and dominant, some more passive and submissive, and some in between There are men here who actually prefer a woman who is more is dominant, some prefer more submissive, and again some a mix of the two. There is someone for everyone (as the saying goes).

 

In my opinion, there is no “right” way for a woman (or anyone) to behave, we all have our own unique styles and natures and we attract people based on who we are as human beings, not where we’re from or our particular culture.

 

Did I say right ? No I didn't, I just said I'm not really okay anymore with the majority of behaviors women display, that's all and I'm still entitled to my views !

 

I would argue the US is a huge melting pot of 323 millions people, from so many places in the world so of course you have a big variance and everything for anyone, but opposed to this Switzerland is 8 millions people and most of the

imigration is 3 generations old, italians, spanish mainly and these are for years and years Swiss, the mentality is not that of italians or spanish, so yes I am generalizing but honestly I don't think I exagerate the facts.

One canadian doesn't make a generality either from your example, I have dozens of canadian friends but they are the traveling types and don't feel at home in canada anymore, but I don't see the relevance of your point here !

 

Well variances within 323 millions people is surely far higher than in 8 millions and I feel women influence other women, that's how it works here more than in other countries. Again I traveled for 6 years all around the globe and not as

a tourist, but for work always with people from the country, I can say switzerland is very specific, many other countries have much different people, I think I have enough experience after the 6 years to talk about this subject and not

exagerate the behaviors of people in my country.

[katrina1980]

Did I say right ? No I didn't, I just said I'm not really okay anymore with the majority of behaviors women display, that's all and I'm still entitled to my views !

 

 

No you didn't "say" it but you certainly implied it, whether you realize it or not. I suppose what you meant is that most women's behaviors are not right or okay "for you," would that be more accurate?

 

Which is certainly your prerogative, you won't get any argument from me on that.

 

And yes of course you are entitled to your views, as is everyone! I never suggested otherwise.

[Last Gentleman]

You might be on to something. I don't recall the last time I've seen a woman roofer, carpenter, or plumber.

 

Ahah, beware don't talk about this too loud or someone will bring up the specter of the glass ceilling !

[Last Gentleman]

No you didn't "say" it but you certainly implied it, whether you realize it or not. I suppose what you meant is that most women's behaviors are not right "for you," would that be more accurate?

 

Which is certainly your prerogative, you won't get any argument from me on that.

 

And yes of course you are entitled to your views, as is everyone! I never suggested otherwise.

 

Well of course I'm speaking for me, I can't speak for men in the US I'm not megalomaniac fortunately, but I'll tell you that most single male friends have the exact same views as me, they find women

became rude and less graceful, they aren't happy either !

[katrina1980]

Look LG I don't want to argue with you, but often times on forums like this, the written word can be very ambiguous and although a poster may not intend to come off as generalizing, they often do with how they word their posts.

 

On the other hand, there are many posters (both men and women) who DO intend to generalize, they have very specific views on how things should be (in general) so there is no reason to get so defensive.

 

I was simply stating how your posts came across to ME (and perhaps to others as well, don't know can't speak for them), but in any event, thank you for clarifying.

 

I am sorry you are encountering women whose behaviors are not acceptable to you; I wish you the best in your future endeavors.

[Last Gentleman]

Look LG I don't want to argue with you, but often times on forums like this, the written word can be very ambiguous and although a poster may not intend to come off as generalizing, they often do with how they word their posts.

 

On the other hand, there are many posters (both men and women) who DO intend to generalize, they have very specific views on how things should be (in general) so there is no reason to get so defensive.

 

I was simply stating how your posts came across to ME, but thank you for clarifying.

 

I'm only replying to your inquiry, not getting defensive don't worry and surely don't want to be rude, but with my background I have different insight and thinking.

 

But funny I said eastern women seem to me more desirable for the traits I explained and you are one of them, you're proving my point !

[sky09]

Ahah, beware don't talk about this too loud or someone will bring up the specter of the glass ceilling !

 

Just ruffling some feathers lol Be very careful with Eastern European women. They eat Western (North American) women for lunch. I'd still much rather spend my time with them, tho (more predictable in the crazy department).

[Last Gentleman]

Just ruffling some feathers lol Be very careful with Eastern European women. They eat Western (North American) women for lunch. I'd still much rather spend my time with them, tho (more predictable in the crazy department).

 

Don't worry my Polish ex was one of the best feminine women I have met, just our distance relationship was crap, but I tend to prefer them hehe !

[Imho]

You talk down on this guy. But if you’re so great, why didn’t you ever settle down?

 

That sounds rude. But what aren’t you telling us? Is there something you’re doing that pushes away other men?

 

In another post she stated she is not a secure person.

[thealchemist]

Well of course I'm speaking for me, I can't speak for men in the US I'm not megalomaniac fortunately, but I'll tell you that most single male friends have the exact same views as me, they find women

became rude and less graceful, they aren't happy either !

Well this might sound odd but I prefer my woman that way.

 

Rude not as inherently disrespectful but straight and to the point and not someone who sugar coats it.

 

Someone who has no issues being direct and blunt is considered rude by most but not by me. A big characteristic I look for in a spouse.

 

Grace and elegance, if she has them that is great but I really don't care one way or the other. Those honestly are more archaic terms for me.

[Last Gentleman]

Well this might sound odd but I prefer my woman that way.

 

Rude not as inherently disrespectful but straight and to the point and not someone who sugar coats it.

 

Someone who has no issues being direct and blunt is considered rude by most but not by me. A big characteristic I look for in a spouse.

 

Grace and elegance, if she has them that is great but I really don't care one way or the other. Those honestly are more archaic terms for me.

 

Well to each their own, I also like women that say things like they are, but to me you don't need to be rude for that, you are conflating the 2 a bit, honesty doesn't mean rudeness automatically !

I was just speaking about these women, that swear for basic communication not even to carry their point on a matter, a woman that uses f***, sh**, bit**, cu** every 2 sentences, it's really not the same.

 

I think many women see it same as you seem to, that their perception of being strong and independent, is synonymous with swearing and upping the tone, as I am always amazed by women who use this

feminine charm to push you in a direction, I'm not saying they trick guys with their body, it's an attitude some have that just convinces you to help !

[Batya33]

Well this might sound odd but I prefer my woman that way.

 

Rude not as inherently disrespectful but straight and to the point and not someone who sugar coats it.

 

Someone who has no issues being direct and blunt is considered rude by most but not by me. A big characteristic I look for in a spouse.

 

Grace and elegance, if she has them that is great but I really don't care one way or the other. Those honestly are more archaic terms for me.

 

I think he means that direct in a woman is not graceful but it's ok in a man. Blunt is ok if it's not tactless or thoughtless - and that's not gender specific IMO.

 

I don't think cursing or swearing is direct -that's just offensive - and in fact it's indirect because those words are so overused that it becomes generalized. Articulate, specific, and to the point is much more effective to show strength and confidence.

[Last Gentleman]

Articulate, specific, and to the point is much more effective to show strength and confidence.

 

That's the point and not specific to gender as you say, it's really sad some people show aggressiveness to convey their ideas, because people on the other hand won't listen so much...

[Chelsea54]

If you are 40 & dating, you should be able to find many good men! Read back the other person’s comments about femininity. Consider reading up on mars/Venus attraction or watching the you tube videos.