Two times in 10 years

[milly007]

Considering the following:

 

- the guy was once a friend with benefits;

- you don't like the idea of her spending time with him, particularly because she initially lied about it to you;

- and your wife admitted that if the roles were reversed, and you were communicating with a friend with benefits from the past, that she wouldn't like it

 

...should be enough to cut this man out of her life.

 

Whether or not she's cheating, who knows. I don't want to throw that accusation out there without some hard evidence. But she's definitely acting inappropriately.

 

She's getting something out of this time with him, whether it's attention, time to re-live her younger years, who knows. Either way, it's not right.

[PICCOLLO]

Having read the whole thread, there’s serious red flags here.

 

1. She lied...twice

2. She refuses to let you meet the ex-fwb despite whats happened

3. She has a history of infidelity

4. you guys have a major difference in values. You move on from past relationships, she doesnt want to.

5. She is inconsistent. She sees guys but wont allow the opposite for you.

 

To put this into context for you. A guy messaged my girlfriend occasionally. She’d reply courteously but he wasnt getting the message to leave her alone. A message came up when we were on her phone. She said he contacts her and has a crush on her. I read some emails that they sent between each other when she was single. I told her that the relationship was inappropriate and asked her if she’d mind telling him to stop. She understood (as we have similar values) and did so. End of story. I cant help but feel this should have happened here if she respected you.

[breener]

Ah, thanks.

 

I'd go back to your opening post, first paragraph where you say "I caught her in the lie (had a gut feeling something wasn't right)"

Your gut was right, then, so trust it, and listen to it now. See if you can get away, get quiet, and listen to your inner voice or your gut or your inner knowing on what YOU need to do next. You may not know the whole picture, but trust yourself.

Right now my gut isn't totally sure. I'd like to believe when she says that she doesn't want anyone but me.... that she wouldn't risk our marriage over having coffee..... that she doesn't need sex from anyone...... but at the end of it, I am not totally sure I believe it. Without knowing why did she initiate it? why did she suggest to meet for coffee? why does she not know why meeting him for coffee was so important that she had to lie and cover her tracks (I think she knows and won't admit it).

 

It's hard to get away and get quiet when you have a family.... but I am going to try my best to do that. Need some clarity.

 

I trust that I am a good person and don't deserved to be treated that way.... and it's heart-breaking that someone that I put my full trust in has done that. Lesson learned I guess.

[breener]

Considering the following:

 

- the guy was once a friend with benefits;

- you don't like the idea of her spending time with him, particularly because she initially lied about it to you;

- and your wife admitted that if the roles were reversed, and you were communicating with a friend with benefits from the past, that she wouldn't like it

 

...should be enough to cut this man out of her life.

 

Whether or not she's cheating, who knows. I don't want to throw that accusation out there without some hard evidence. But she's definitely acting inappropriately.

 

She's getting something out of this time with him, whether it's attention, time to re-live her younger years, who knows. Either way, it's not right.

 

Hey Milly,

 

- the guy was once a friend with benefits - so why seek him out and initiate contact?

- spending time with him - you nailed it. She lied for a reason and the amount of deception doesn't fit her reason for doing so - there's more to it than she wants to lead on

- double standard - yup.... so I make sure that I don't do things that will make her uncomfortable and insecure. should go both ways?

 

I agree that it should be enough to cut him out of her life.... but her comment that she has a "desire" to continue to be friends with this person is quite mind boggling and alarming.

 

For the cheating, I am not at all sure. I "don't think so" but it has crossed my mind that she might want it to go there. Why seek out an old FWB? There must have been some chemistry there..... and the fact that SHE wanted a relationship and he did not (at the time she had 2 small kids and didn't want to get involved with that).... all points to her wanting more.

 

And yes it is not right. She is either oblivious to that or simply doesn't care.

[Seymore]

There is always some excuse to keep contact with an old flame. From what I’ve learned it never leads to anything good. I’ve recently had 3 old “boyfriends” people I dated reach out. I dont even respond to these messages and it’s not only because I had a BF at the time. When I’m done I’m done there is no reason to continue any contact.

 

THIS. Even if I'm single and get messages from old flames, I toss them. When I'm done, I'm done.

 

So many people here say leave the past in the past...and if old flames start to get in contact again there's usually a reason why and it's not tea and crumpets.

 

OP, my blood boils when I read a post like yours because the same thing happened to me (gf, not a wife, though) - finding out about lies meeting up with suspect men. I truly feel for you and I'm sorry. I wish SO badly to see how someone like your wife would act if YOU lied about meeting up with an old flame (or any female for that matter). I'm sure she'd explode.

[breener]

Having read the whole thread, there’s serious red flags here.

 

1. She lied...twice

2. She refuses to let you meet the ex-fwb despite whats happened

3. She has a history of infidelity

4. you guys have a major difference in values. You move on from past relationships, she doesnt want to.

5. She is inconsistent. She sees guys but wont allow the opposite for you.

 

To put this into context for you. A guy messaged my girlfriend occasionally. She’d reply courteously but he wasnt getting the message to leave her alone. A message came up when we were on her phone. She said he contacts her and has a crush on her. I read some emails that they sent between each other when she was single. I told her that the relationship was inappropriate and asked her if she’d mind telling him to stop. She understood (as we have similar values) and did so. End of story. I cant help but feel this should have happened here if she respected you.

 

Yes PICCOLLO, there are many red flags here.....

 

1. I told her that she lied to me twice and there will not be a third time. Not sure if she took heed to that warning however.

2. The refusal to have meet him is alarming as well. If everything is so innocent, then what's to hide? If he's such a great guy, then why keep him secret?

3. Infidelity.... yea that happened and I am trying to say that people make mistakes and move on. It is at the back of my mind though.

4. Yes I would never think about contacting an ex. I mean they are ex. for a reason right? plus, when I am with someone, I am fully committed to them and seeing an ex would almost feel like a betrayal.

5. Her insecurity is one of her biggest flaws and it causes issues... so much so that I don't do what I'd like to do in some situations because I am conscious on how it would make her feel.

 

So did your girlfriend mind that she told him to stop? My wife has said on more than one occasion that she doesn't want to stop their friendship.... so I am doubtful that she would willingly do it. She might but be resentful for doing it.... since, as she says "it is innocent and it's just coffee."

[breener]

THIS. Even if I'm single and get messages from old flames, I toss them. When I'm done, I'm done.

 

So many people here say leave the past in the past...and if old flames start to get in contact again there's usually a reason why and it's not tea and crumpets.

 

OP, my blood boils when I read a post like yours because the same thing happened to me (gf, not a wife, though) - finding out about lies meeting up with suspect men. I truly feel for you and I'm sorry. I wish SO badly to see how someone like your wife would act if YOU lied about meeting up with an old flame (or any female for that matter). I'm sure she'd explode.

 

Oh I KNOW she'd explode. On Saturday, she said to me about my "hot friend" Andrea, that she is insecure because she is incredibly hot and doesn't want me to fall for her and leave her...... which is the farthest thing from the truth. I have even ignored a friend request from her on Facebook.

 

Yes I don't think her seeking him out and lying about it is "tea and crumpets." There is something deeper there and I am not totally sure what. I know she knows though.

[breener]

THIS. Even if I'm single and get messages from old flames, I toss them. When I'm done, I'm done.

 

So many people here say leave the past in the past...and if old flames start to get in contact again there's usually a reason why and it's not tea and crumpets.

 

OP, my blood boils when I read a post like yours because the same thing happened to me (gf, not a wife, though) - finding out about lies meeting up with suspect men. I truly feel for you and I'm sorry. I wish SO badly to see how someone like your wife would act if YOU lied about meeting up with an old flame (or any female for that matter). I'm sure she'd explode.

 

Thank you as well for your compassion..... it means a lot to me. This has been hard and I am one that wears his heart on his sleeve. I'd suck at poker that's for sure.

[reinventmyself]

THIS. Even if I'm single and get messages from old flames, I toss them. When I'm done, I'm done.

 

So many people here say leave the past in the past...and if old flames start to get in contact again there's usually a reason why and it's not tea and crumpets.

.

 

With social media it's so easy to dig old flames up and contact them. I've been contacted a couple times just this past year and I naively think their intentions are innocent only to find myself in a pickle and trying to get out of it. Lesson learned.

[breener]

With social media it's so easy to dig old flames up and contact them. I've been contacted a couple times just this past year and I naively think their intentions are innocent only to find myself in a pickle and trying to get out of it. Lesson learned.

So what am I supposed to think if SHE is the one that initiated contact and initiated meeting???? To me that's a VERY BIG BRIGHT RED FLAG......

[Pleasedonot5]

Again, you are married, and so that should mean doing more than just dumping her. There are issues in your marriage and with her specifically that are largely the reasons for her acting out.

 

Have you made an appointment with a couple's counselor yet, or brought the idea to her yet?

 

There are so many reasons to be mad about what she's doing, but just sitting here mad won't resolve the issue.

[breener]

Again, you are married, and so that should mean doing more than just dumping her. There are issues in your marriage and with her specifically that are largely the reasons for her acting out.

 

Have you made an appointment with a couple's counselor yet, or brought the idea to her yet?

 

There are so many reasons to be mad about what she's doing, but just sitting here mad won't resolve the issue.

 

Hey Pleasedonot5,

 

I haven't yet. I am trying to find a way of framing it and bring it up and what to say. I am very "methodical" and want to have in my mind what to say. I can't just start rambling as I want to make a statement that has an impact to the severity of how critical this and how damaging her behavior has been.

 

Do I mention her insane insecurities and jealousy? Her insecurity may be the catalyst of her reaching out to an old FWB......

 

Thoughts?

[Pleasedonot5]

Hey Pleasedonot5,

 

I haven't yet. I am trying to find a way of framing it and bring it up and what to say. I am very "methodical" and want to have in my mind what to say. I can't just start rambling as I want to make a statement that has an impact to the severity of how critical this and how damaging her behavior has been.

 

Do I mention her insane insecurities and jealousy? Her insecurity may be the catalyst of her reaching out to an old FWB......

 

Thoughts?

No, you mention that in light of recent issues and communications you have had, you think that seeing a couple's counselor is necessary for the marriage to survive and thrive. Then gauge her response.

 

Don't go running around throwing insults.

[breener]

No, you mention that in light of recent issues and communications you have had, you think that seeing a couple's counselor is necessary for the marriage to survive and thrive. Then gauge her response.

 

Don't go running around throwing insults.

Yes, especially when she said on Saturday that she is worried/insecure that I will dump her and get together with my "extremely hot friend" friend Andrea.... yet she thinks I should be OK with her having coffee with a former FWB and lying about it..... major disconnect there.

[Pleasedonot5]

Yes, especially when she said on Saturday that she is worried/insecure that I will dump her and get together with my "extremely hot friend" friend Andrea.... yet she thinks I should be OK with her having coffee with a former FWB and lying about it..... major disconnect there.

I would save any specifics for the counseling session, if you have it.

[hyden]

Sounds like the place I was in with my ex wife. I knew something was up, but since I didn't have the flaming piece of evidence...at least one she could explain away, I refused to pull the trigger. She was setting up plans with a FWB for when you were going to be out of town. She has been cheating on you and will continue to do so. She may have stopped for a little bit until this moment calms down, but you need to realize that there is always 600% more than what you know, you suspect and/or your gut is telling you.

 

Good luck.

[PICCOLLO]

Yes PICCOLLO, there are many red flags here.....

 

1. I told her that she lied to me twice and there will not be a third time. Not sure if she took heed to that warning however.

2. The refusal to have meet him is alarming as well. If everything is so innocent, then what's to hide? If he's such a great guy, then why keep him secret?

3. Infidelity.... yea that happened and I am trying to say that people make mistakes and move on. It is at the back of my mind though.

4. Yes I would never think about contacting an ex. I mean they are ex. for a reason right? plus, when I am with someone, I am fully committed to them and seeing an ex would almost feel like a betrayal.

5. Her insecurity is one of her biggest flaws and it causes issues... so much so that I don't do what I'd like to do in some situations because I am conscious on how it would make her feel.

 

So did your girlfriend mind that she told him to stop? My wife has said on more than one occasion that she doesn't want to stop their friendship.... so I am doubtful that she would willingly do it. She might but be resentful for doing it.... since, as she says "it is innocent and it's just coffee."

 

People who cheat always cheat. I’ve seen it time and time again with friends. Past behaviour is a good predictor of future action.

 

People deal with insecurity in various ways but seeking validation from inappropriate places is not something you should put up with.

 

My girlfriend understood it had to stop as he was holding onto a chance it would develop and their past emails (when she was single) indicated an emotional connection. She was more than happy to do it as she loves me and respects how I feel.

Your wife doesn’t. Your feelings matter and if she values you, an old flame who she iccasionally sees shouldnt be someone she needs to hold onto at the cost of a happy relationship.

[breener]

People who cheat always cheat. I’ve seen it time and time again with friends. Past behaviour is a good predictor of future action.

 

People deal with insecurity in various ways but seeking validation from inappropriate places is not something you should put up with.

 

My girlfriend understood it had to stop as he was holding onto a chance it would develop and their past emails (when she was single) indicated an emotional connection. She was more than happy to do it as she loves me and respects how I feel.

Your wife doesn’t. Your feelings matter and if she values you, an old flame who she iccasionally sees shouldnt be someone she needs to hold onto at the cost of a happy relationship.

 

Yes that "once a cheater always a cheater" phrase has indeed entered my mind.

 

I think for her insecurity, she needs to deal with that as it causes friction when it rears its ugly head. - insert "Andrea" here

For having it stop, the flip-side here was that SHE initiated everything.... reaching out, coffee etc. so it is a LITTLE different.

I hope that is what she is going to sees it. If she values me as much as she has said (was it real or patronizing?), this shouldn't be an issue.

 

On the flip side, if she IS telling the truth when she lets me know when she hears from him, it was 5 months ago since his last text.... but a part of me wonders if they communicate in other ways (email etc),

[reinventmyself]

Yes that "once a cheater always a cheater" phrase has indeed entered my mind.

 

I think for her insecurity, she needs to deal with that as it causes friction when it rears its ugly head. - insert "Andrea" here

For having it stop, the flip-side here was that SHE initiated everything.... reaching out, coffee etc. so it is a LITTLE different.

I hope that is what she is going to sees it. If she values me as much as she has said (was it real or patronizing?), this shouldn't be an issue.

 

On the flip side, if she IS telling the truth when she lets me know when she hears from him, it was 5 months ago since his last text.... but a part of me wonders if they communicate in other ways (email etc),

How will you ever know? When it matters the most she can't be trusted

[PICCOLLO]

Yes that "once a cheater always a cheater" phrase has indeed entered my mind.

 

I think for her insecurity, she needs to deal with that as it causes friction when it rears its ugly head. - insert "Andrea" here

For having it stop, the flip-side here was that SHE initiated everything.... reaching out, coffee etc. so it is a LITTLE different.

I hope that is what she is going to sees it. If she values me as much as she has said (was it real or patronizing?), this shouldn't be an issue.

 

On the flip side, if she IS telling the truth when she lets me know when she hears from him, it was 5 months ago since his last text.... but a part of me wonders if they communicate in other ways (email etc),

 

 

Cheaters cheat. Im sure there are a couple of people out there who change but the vast majority dont.

 

You’re right, it is slightly different...much worse. The principle is the same though.

 

Honestly, if you are wondering if they are communicating in other ways then its clear there is zero trust...and I dont blame you. Id be thinking the same.

 

In these situations, its natural to fear leaving but your perspective has to be: is this woman good enough for me? Does she respect me?

 

She knows how you feel. Thats as far as you can go. You cannot control her into changing who she is or how she will act. All you can do is stay or go. If you cant let this go (I wouldnt) then you have to leave. The onus is on her to change her ways and it seems like she is happy as she is.

[breener]

How will you ever know? When it matters the most she can't be trusted

I completely agree..... and it's hard to state but it's the fact. I WANT to trust her but I feel I can't.

[ThatwasThen]

Quote Originally Posted by breener View Post

 

Yes, especially when she said on Saturday that she is worried/insecure that I will dump her and get together with my "extremely hot friend" friend Andrea.... yet she thinks I should be OK with her having coffee with a former FWB and lying about it..... major disconnect there.

Interesting! Would you be willing to give up "Andrea" if she were to give up her Eff Buddy?

[Norwegian wood]

Sorry to hear about this Breener. I was in a similar situation with my wife, it's hurtful. It's a complete shock when someone you trust that much is concealing a relationship from you and you've got to figure out why. That being said try not to jump to the worst possible conclusion. Take what you read here with a grain of salt, you know your situation better than any of us. You're going to read everything from "dude, she's totally cheating on you" to "this is your issue, you're insecure, jealous, controlling etc."

Anyhow, I think it's interesting how I always see such a double standard on this one. If a guy were to do this type of thing to his wife everyone would be calling for his head but a lot of times when the situation is reversed people question whether the guy is too controlling, he's jealous, too insecure, i.e. what did he do to make her feel like she has to hide this from him.

And you don't have to be so worried about defending yourself, we're all human beings and have a normal amount of suspicion and insecurity and when your wife wife acts like a sneaky teenager it sets off alarm bells. Of course you're going to get hurt, suspicious, insecure. I'd like to meet the robot who wouldn't.

I would suggest couples counseling with a professional. Look for someone with a degree in psychology as well as counseling accreditation, not just a run of the mill "family counselor".

Try hard not to take a position of moral superiority or take on the role of parent, this will backfire. You are absolutely right in your position and should stand firm but it's easy to become intoxicated with having the high ground.

It's totally OK to have clear boundaries and in fact is very healthy. It doesn't at all mean you're telling anybody what they can and can't do, you're just letting them know what you're OK with and what you're not OK with. When they know what those are and still push your boundaries, they're sending you a message.

The most troubling thing to me is that she would still want to communicate at all with this guy at all. If she's really aware of how much damage she's done by secretly meeting with this guy the first thing that should have popped into her head is "I'm ending this right now". And that's regardless of what the nature of this was (just a friend, a flirtation, whatever). Your marriage and regaining your trust, making you feel comfortable, loved should be her very first priority, and her friendship with an old flame shouldn't even be considered for a second in relation to that. This should actually just occur to her and you shouldn't have to explain that as a concept at all. That's what would trouble me, that she doesn't get that part.

Good luck Breener, I can tell you're a very thoughtful guy. Things will work out.

[breener]

Interesting! Would you be willing to give up "Andrea" if she were to give up her Eff Buddy?

Well that's interesting because "Andrea" is a non factor.... I have never met up with her outside of work (we used to work together), and I haven't accepted her friend request on Facebook and have not talked (communicated) to her since that hour long phone call (I know how jealous my wife was because of it so, in an attempt to remove all outside factors, I have cut off all communication). So really there was nothing to give up.

 

I don't think we are really comparing apples to apples.... plus, I never slept with her.

[breener]

Interesting! Would you be willing to give up "Andrea" if she were to give up her Eff Buddy?

Also, me bringing up "Andrea" was to touch on the double-standard my wife has. That it's OK for her to have coffee and lie about it with a former FWB but she gives me grief for having a female friend that is of little consequence in the grand scheme of things. Added that all communication with "Andrea" was cut after the "why did you talk to her" discussion.