Two times in 10 years

[breener]

She refused to let her husband meet her ex fwb.

 

He has tried to set boundaries it seems.

 

Yes I said that the next time they have coffee, she should invite me and that was promptly shot down.

[Pleasedonot5]

I think that we are all reading a different thread , than you. I don't understand your responses. At all!

Sorry to hear that, Holly. Different life experiences, mixed with different opinions. Would be happy to clarify if you have any questions. :)

[thealchemist]

Yes I said that the next time they have coffee, she should invite me and that was promptly shot down.

That is all you need to know.

 

What is actually currently going on doesn't even really matter.

 

She lied.

 

She refuses to stop.

 

She refuses to let you meet him.

 

She refuses boundaries.

 

Whether see has done anything or not doesn't even matter in my opinion. If it hasn't happened yet it will eventually.

 

And she is willingly going down that road.

[breener]

If you put yourself in her position (literally, imagine being in her shoes), can you imagine a scenario where you have a friend you want to see, but (you felt) your spouse would pout or freak out if you asked? If you can't imagine that, because you're not like that at all, then imagine her feeling that way, but incorrectly.

 

I live that every day. She has always had issues with the fact that I have female friends. I have never met them 1 on 1 but talk about them from time to time. Let me put it this way, I don't hide them from her. A female friend that I confided in when this happened (I wanted a woman's perspective because the perspective I got from a guy friend was "kick her to the curb"), I got grief from by my wife when she went through my phone and asked why I talked to Andrea for an hour. So all of a sudden it is my fault because I talked to a female about an issue that she started? Kind of hypocritical don't you think?

 

So, do you think that she may feel that I would react the same kind of way that she would have, given the situation? Would I "pout or start a fight"? That wouldn't surprise me that she would think like that. She even admitted that she projected her feelings onto me over this, and that is why she lied about it.

[ThatwasThen]

Op: What did you say to her when she made a lame excuse that "you would feel weird" if you were to meet him? Were you passive about it or did you state your case?

[Hollyj]

She is not giving him up! She has put more value into him. She lied. She does not want you to meet, Focus on this bit!

[Hollyj]

"So, do you think that she may feel that I would react the same kind of way that she would have, given the situation? Would I "pout or start a fight"? That wouldn't surprise me that she would think like that. She even admitted that she projected her feelings onto me over this, and that is why she lied about it."

Now, you are looking for excuses. Stop being so passive.

[Pleasedonot5]

I live that every day. She has always had issues with the fact that I have female friends. I have never met them 1 on 1 but talk about them from time to time. Let me put it this way, I don't hide them from her. A female friend that I confided in when this happened (I wanted a woman's perspective because the perspective I got from a guy friend was "kick her to the curb"), I got grief from by my wife when she went through my phone and asked why I talked to Andrea for an hour. So all of a sudden it is my fault because I talked to a female about an issue that she started? Kind of hypocritical don't you think?

 

So, do you think that she may feel that I would react the same kind of way that she would have, given the situation? Would I "pout or start a fight"? That wouldn't surprise me that she would think like that. She even admitted that she projected her feelings onto me over this, and that is why she lied about it.

Yes, I could imagine her feeling that way. Even if incorrectly. Especially if she's the jealous or insecure type who reacts that way - the way she reacts may be all she knows - so she expects you to react the same. Projecting as you mentioned.

 

Think you're probably a stellar guy, so I'm not going after your character. Playing devil's advocate to help you understand what the heck is in her head. Sounds like you want to get away from a that "kick her to the curb" mentality others have presented, because that's not your ideal solution, and because you're dealing with something that is not necessarily physical cheating.

 

Marriage is marriage is marriage. Break ups are tough as hell, and yet divorces are still tougher. The action you take is ultimately up to you... But I would rather you exhaust other options before jumping to divorce in this scenario. I think it sounds like you agree.

 

Have you suggested couple's counseling, and if so how has she reacted?

[breener]

Op: What did you say to her when she made a lame excuse that "you would feel weird" if you were to meet him? Were you passive about it or did you state your case?

I asked her why it would make her feel weird and she said that she would feel strange that I was talking with someone with the knowledge that they used to have sex. I said that it wouldn't bother me because that was in her past and I wasn't going to pretend that the earth didn't exist before I came along. The past is the past.... I can't say anything about that nor control that. I told her that the past was what shaped her as a person. The same person that I fell in love with.

[ThatwasThen]

I asked her why it would make her feel weird and she said that she would feel strange that I was talking with someone with the knowledge that they used to have sex. I said that it wouldn't bother me because that was in her past and I wasn't going to pretend that the earth didn't exist before I came along. The past is the past.... I can't say anything about that nor control that. I told her that the past was what shaped her as a person. The same person that I fell in love with.

... and that didn't change her mind?

 

If it were me, I'd ask to meet him again after that very reasonable counter and if she still refused then I'd be setting some examples of what is and what isn't acceptable behaviour within a monogamous, committed union and seeing what she thinks of the rules.

 

One rule that is a very fundamental boundary within a romantic relationship is NOT spending one-on-one date like activities with an opposite sex friend.

[breener]

Yes, I could imagine her feeling that way. Even if incorrectly. Especially if she's the jealous or insecure type who reacts that way - the way she reacts may be all she knows - so she expects you to react the same. Projecting as you mentioned.

 

Think you're probably a stellar guy, so I'm not going after your character. Playing devil's advocate to help you understand what the heck is in her head. Sounds like you want to get away from a that "kick her to the curb" mentality others have presented, because that's not your ideal solution, and because you're dealing with something that is not necessarily physical cheating.

 

Marriage is marriage is marriage. Break ups are tough as hell, and yet divorces are still tougher. The action you take is ultimately up to you... But I would rather you exhaust other options before jumping to divorce in this scenario. I think it sounds like you agree.

 

Have you suggested couple's counseling, and if so how has she reacted?

I firmly believe that she thought I would react the exact same way as she would have. No doubt in my mind that is where this mostly came from. The other questions though are why she sought out her former FWB... and why she initiated meeting.

 

I think I am a stand-up guy and understand that people make mistakes. I was divorced before (I am on my 2nd marriage, her 3rd) and I know the devastation that occurs because of it. My marriage broke down due to infidelity and my ex, when confronted said "I know what I am doing is wrong but I don't care." So this situation has some quasi-similar feelings to it. She knows that she shouldn't have lied about it, but did so 3 other times to meet him for coffee.

 

For counselling, I have asked and didn't get much of a reaction. I think that at least, that is a starting point.

 

Even yesterday, my wife said the reason why she doesn't like me having my female friend was (her words) "because she is incredibly hot and I am concerned you will leave me for her." So.... root issue here is that she is insecure and doesn't trust me and how I feel about our marriage. Maybe she is being pro-active for "when I do leave her" for my hot friend...... self-fulfilling prophecy?

[Hollyj]

Why didn't her other marriages survive?

 

This does not explain why she does not want you to meet him, or receive counseling?

[breener]

Why didn't her other marriages survive?

 

This does not explain why she does not want you to meet him, or receive counseling?

Her first marriage, she was cheated on. Her second marriage, she was cheated on, so she cheated back and got pregnant.

[breener]

Why didn't her other marriages survive?

 

This does not explain why she does not want you to meet him, or receive counseling?

I am going to suggest counselling again. Her insecurity and jealousy has created issues that aren't really there, and maybe have lead to these issues.

[Pleasedonot5]

I firmly believe that she thought I would react the exact same way as she would have. No doubt in my mind that is where this mostly came from. The other questions though are why she sought out her former FWB... and why she initiated meeting.

 

I think I am a stand-up guy and understand that people make mistakes. I was divorced before (I am on my 2nd marriage, her 3rd) and I know the devastation that occurs because of it. My marriage broke down due to infidelity and my ex, when confronted said "I know what I am doing is wrong but I don't care." So this situation has some quasi-similar feelings to it. She knows that she shouldn't have lied about it, but did so 3 other times to meet him for coffee.

 

For counselling, I have asked and didn't get much of a reaction. I think that at least, that is a starting point.

 

Even yesterday, my wife said the reason why she doesn't like me having my female friend was (her words) "because she is incredibly hot and I am concerned you will leave me for her." So.... root issue here is that she is insecure and doesn't trust me and how I feel about our marriage. Maybe she is being pro-active for "when I do leave her" for my hot friend...... self-fulfilling prophecy?

That's good background information, thank you for sharing. I'm sorry you had a similar experience before, that sucks. Also, sounds like your wife came from a tough couple of marriages herself. Man, that's rough.

 

I agree counseling is a good place to start. If you go that route, it should be explained that this counseling is necessary for your marriage. Find an accredited counselor, and then communicate to find a date. Once you find a date for counseling, try to stay away from that topic until you get to the counselor.

 

Regarding your last paragraph, I dont think that it's like that necessarily. Think she's jealous and insecure, you both might be to some degree (her more so, and I can understand why you would be after her seeing the guy behind your back), and because of that she's seeking validation (that she may feel she's not getting from you). Maybe she wants you to know she has insurance or she's still got it too. Maybe she has a crush on the guy too. Whatever it may be, if your goal is to work through this, it probably should be addressed neutrally with a counselor (it doesn't seem like your conversations are leading to a mutually beneficial conclusion on their own). Get to the root of the problem, mutually understand where these feelings are coming from, and resolve it.

[Hollyj]

I am going to suggest counselling again. Her insecurity and jealousy has created issues that aren't really there, and maybe have lead to these issues.

 

I think that these are excuses for her deception, but I hope you can figure things out. What are you going to do if she refuses to let him go, or receive counseling. Are you simply going to sit back?

[breener]

I think that these are excuses for her deception, but I hope you can figure things out. What are you going to do if she refuses to let him go, or receive counseling. Are you simply going to sit back?

No I am not going to sit back. I already told her that I feel like a chump for being lied to over and over. That I try to be the best husband and person that I can, and she lies to my face??

 

There are many options here, and they are deal-breakers. If she refuses to let him go and she says no to me meeting him, then deal breaker. If she refuses to go to counselling, then deal breaker.

[Hollyj]

If she refuses to let him go that should be enough.

[Pleasedonot5]

No I am not going to sit back. I already told her that I feel like a chump for being lied to over and over. That I try to be the best husband and person that I can, and she lies to my face??

 

There are many options here, and they are deal-breakers. If she refuses to let him go and she says no to me meeting him, then deal breaker. If she refuses to go to counselling, then deal breaker.

Yeah, I was saying that marriage is marriage is marriage, but if she refuses to go to counseling then it shows she's not as invested. Let's hope she's at least receptive to the idea of talking things out with a counselor. If she's willing to work with you on this stuff, then I think it's salvageable.

[breener]

If she refuses to let him go that should be enough.

Yeah good point...... there is a real reason why she wants to continue it.... and she isn't admitting it. I told her that I don't buy the one that she has been saying.

[Babbsi]

There is always some excuse to keep contact with an old flame. From what I’ve learned it never leads to anything good. I’ve recently had 3 old “boyfriends” people I dated reach out. I dont even respond to these messages and it’s not only because I had a BF at the time. When I’m done I’m done there is no reason to continue any contact.

[journeynow]

Her first marriage, she was cheated on. Her second marriage, she was cheated on, so she cheated back and got pregnant.

 

The one she did the cheating with...was it you, by chance?

[breener]

The one she did the cheating with...was it you, by chance?

Hello. No it was not me. I was subjected to being cheated on and I vowed I would never do that. I also saw what my mother went through when my dad was cheating on her.

 

I completely agree.... they are exes for a reason. Her and FWB ended because she wanted a relationship and he did not.... so they remained friends. It was her that initiated contact this time, and suggested coffee. HAVE NO CLUE WHY!!!!

[breener]

There is always some excuse to keep contact with an old flame. From what I’ve learned it never leads to anything good. I’ve recently had 3 old “boyfriends” people I dated reach out. I dont even respond to these messages and it’s not only because I had a BF at the time. When I’m done I’m done there is no reason to continue any contact.

 

I completely agree..... but that's me and it seems as I have a different moral compass than she does.... or she does have one and chose to ignore it. Take your pick.

[journeynow]

Hello. No it was not me. I was subjected to being cheated on and I vowed I would never do that. I also saw what my mother went through when my dad was cheating on her.

 

Ah, thanks.

 

I'd go back to your opening post, first paragraph where you say "I caught her in the lie (had a gut feeling something wasn't right)"

Your gut was right, then, so trust it, and listen to it now. See if you can get away, get quiet, and listen to your inner voice or your gut or your inner knowing on what YOU need to do next. You may not know the whole picture, but trust yourself.