Two times in 10 years

[Hollyj]

I think you have a communication barrier up, where she doesn't feel comfortable telling you these things, because you over-react and act all "hurt." I do however, I think that it's inappropriate that she's seeing a guy one-on-one while she's married to you -- especially with one with whom she has history. I think you need to take a chill pill, stop being so dramatic and "hurt," and instead insist that she takes you with the next time she hangs out with him. No more secrets. No more lies. No more drama.

 

Oh, come on. He has not coming off as "dramatic, " I see that he is being too passive.

 

She has lied and hidden things on two separate occasions. She is also putting her former lover, before him.

[breener]

I think you have a communication barrier up, where she doesn't feel comfortable telling you these things, because you over-react and act all "hurt." I do however, I think that it's inappropriate that she's seeing a guy one-on-one while she's married to you -- especially with one with whom she has history. I think you need to take a chill pill, stop being so dramatic and "hurt," and instead insist that she takes you with the next time she hangs out with him. No more secrets. No more lies. No more drama.

 

So how do you "know" that I over-react and act all hurt? She is projecting that on me because that is exactly how she would react (from her own mouth). We are very similar but we do have some fundamental differences as well though. I wouldn't have cared if she wanted to see him and catch up but was honest about it. I had enough confidence in our marriage that I wouldn't have had any reason to worry. The fact that she lied and kept it hidden for months is the fundamental issue.

 

Was I hurt when I found out that she was lying to me for months and seeing a former lover, of course. I don't know who wouldn't be.

 

As for tagging along the next time they catch up, I said that I should come if he's such a great guy and a good friend, and she said she would not like that as it would feel weird..... so he still remains a mystery.

[thealchemist]

I think I am secure, confident, and reliable, and have never questioned where she was or what she was doing. Her ex was very much like that but that isn't me at all. As for being untrustworthy, I don't know why she'd think that.... I mean I don't have a password on my phone, she obviously knows me email password as she logged in once to it (she knows my standard password because I told her what it is).... so maybe to make her feel better, she doesn't trust me because she is being untrustworthy.... convoluted thinking for sure.

 

The meetings are just the tip... of what? Something more? Something "not so innocent?"

 

Yes she has mentioned more than once that she is insecure and didn't like that I had female friends and is jealous and thinks I will leave her for someone else (soooooooo far from the truth as I have no desire to do that). So, does this lead to her being untrustworthy? To me, it is all self-destructive in nature. She doesn't want to lose me, yet she does things to erode trust and the marriage.

 

Very strange thing but last week, she went to IKEA (she gets off work at noon every Friday and usually goes home), so to prove it to me that she was there (I asked her after the fact), she took a picture of some picture frames in IKEA asking me what I thought. When I asked her if she did that to prove to me that she was there (at the moment I didn't think twice about her being where she said she was going to be), she said yes because she thought I wouldn't have believed her.... so where did THAT come from?

Her trying to prove herself is very alarming to me.

 

The only people that go excessively out of their way to prove they aren't doing something inappropriate to their spouse are either doing things inappropriate or have a crazy jealous spouse.

[Hollyj]

I think I am secure, confident, and reliable, and have never questioned where she was or what she was doing. Her ex was very much like that but that isn't me at all. As for being untrustworthy, I don't know why she'd think that.... I mean I don't have a password on my phone, she obviously knows me email password as she logged in once to it (she knows my standard password because I told her what it is).... so maybe to make her feel better, she doesn't trust me because she is being untrustworthy.... convoluted thinking for sure.

 

The meetings are just the tip... of what? Something more? Something "not so innocent?"

 

Yes she has mentioned more than once that she is insecure and didn't like that I had female friends and is jealous and thinks I will leave her for someone else (soooooooo far from the truth as I have no desire to do that). So, does this lead to her being untrustworthy? To me, it is all self-destructive in nature. She doesn't want to lose me, yet she does things to erode trust and the marriage.

 

Very strange thing but last week, she went to IKEA (she gets off work at noon every Friday and usually goes home), so to prove it to me that she was there (I asked her after the fact), she took a picture of some picture frames in IKEA asking me what I thought. When I asked her if she did that to prove to me that she was there (at the moment I didn't think twice about her being where she said she was going to be), she said yes because she thought I wouldn't have believed her.... so where did THAT come from?

 

We can only say the same thing, so many times. You know damn well what Alchemist meant by saying that it was the "tip." She is not trustworthy, and she will continue to be untrustworthy .

[Hollyj]

Her trying to prove herself is very alarming to me.

 

The only people that go excessively out of their way to prove they aren't doing something inappropriate to their spouse are either doing things inappropriate or have a crazy jealous spouse.

 

I agree!!!!!!!

 

Either, you are not being honest about your jealousy, or this woman is cheating. The behavior is off.

[breener]

Her trying to prove herself is very alarming to me.

 

The only people that go excessively out of their way to prove they aren't doing something inappropriate to their spouse are either doing things inappropriate or have a crazy jealous spouse.

 

Or could it be that she is trying to re-gain trust that has been lost and is where she says she is (without me even asking)? I told her that I am not asking her to "prove" where she is. If that makes her feel better, then she can do that, but it isn't because I have asked her.

[Hollyj]

Then she would have blocked him. Not sent pics.

[thealchemist]

Or could it be that she is trying to re-gain trust that has been lost and is where she says she is (without me even asking)? I told her that I am not asking her to "prove" where she is. If that makes her feel better, then she can do that, but it isn't because I have asked her.

Honestly that doesn't come off to me as "regaining trust" as much as "covering my a$$"

 

But you know your wife and I do not.

 

But that seems like such a trivial way to show proof.

 

I could just go have sex with someone then stop by a store and take a picture to show I was there real fast afterwards. It doesn't prove anything. It just gives the feelings that it is proof.

 

Because a person with nothing to hide wouldn't even think to do that, in my opinion. And if the person does have something to hide it proves NOTHING.

 

It is a pointless gesture that implies an attempt to convey trust without actually doing so.

 

If she wanted to regain your trust I would start by not lying about being with exes and to block her old fwb.

 

Refusing to do those things yet "showing proof" in such a pointless way is questionable.

[breener]

I agree!!!!!!!

 

Either, you are not being honest about your jealousy, or this woman is cheating. The behavior is off.

 

Yes I am not the jealous type at all.... for her job, she has always ended work at 3:00 and I end at 5:00.... and never do I even question where she is or what she is doing. She gets off work at noon on Friday's and I get off at 5:00.... she has a "standing date" once a month with her girlfriend... and never have I asked to prove it... because I never had the reason to doubt her. So she has a lot of free time on her hands that I don't stress about. She could do ANYTHING during those hours and I am not concerned about what she is doing.

 

I agree that the behavior is off.... I told her that the fact that she thought that she had to prove to me that she was at IKEA actually pissed me off. That she didn't trust me that I trusted her. I told her that she has to have a little more faith in me. To this moment, I don't know why she doesn't. Maybe because if the tables were turned, she wouldn't have faith in me..... I am totally not sure.

[thealchemist]

I agree!!!!!!!

 

Either, you are not being honest about your jealousy, or this woman is cheating. The behavior is off.

Honestly I have been beating around the bush. I should have just said what hollyj said above in my first post.

 

This comment is EXACTLY my sentiments.

 

Either you are seriously underplaying your jealousy or she is cheating on you.

 

I am sorry...

[breener]

Honestly that doesn't come off to me as "regaining trust" as much as "covering my a$$"

 

But you know your wife and I do not.

 

But that seems like such a trivial way to show proof.

 

I could just go have sex with someone then stop by a store and take a picture to show I was there real fast afterwards. It doesn't prove anything. It just gives the feelings that it is proof.

 

Because a person with nothing to hide wouldn't even think to do that, in my opinion. And if the person does have something to hide it proves NOTHING.

 

It is a pointless gesture that implies an attempt to convey trust without actually doing so.

 

If she wanted to regain your trust I would start by not lying about being with exes and to block her old fwb.

 

Refusing to do those things yet "showing proof" in such a pointless way is questionable.

I totally agree that it was an empty gesture that really didn't do anything other than maybe make her feel better. It did nothing for me, other than getting me upset that she didn't have faith in me that I would believe where she was or what she was doing.

[breener]

Honestly I have been beating around the bush. I should have just said what hollyj said above in my first post.

 

This comment is EXACTLY my sentiments.

 

Either you are seriously underplaying your jealousy or she is cheating on you.

Well then she's cheating on me......

[thealchemist]

Well then she's cheating on me......

I am sorry but I don't see any other likely thing.

 

Something just doesn't sit right with this.

 

I think too that you are a pretty smart guy. If this is the case then you know, somewhere in your gut. Not just some off jealously feeling or something like insecurity. But you know deep down that it is something more.

 

Now, if you don't then maybe she is just incredibly social ignorant or something. But even still she lied a lot about it.

 

Lying in reference to meeting up with an old flame multiple times would be a deal breaker for me even if infidelity wasn't there.

[Pleasedonot5]

Oh, come on. He has not coming off as "dramatic, " I see that he is being too passive.

 

She has lied and hidden things on two separate occasions. She is also putting her former lover, before him.

I think it's possible that he's being too dramatic and too passive at the same time. It might be difficult for me to put into words, but there is a theatrical way to handle things, and an assertive way to handle things. We both agree she's in the wrong here 100%, but I can imagine a world where she hides her desire to be friends because she's worried about the ramifications of doing so. For instance, I'd love to talk religion with my dad, but if I do, he might flip that his family is not all Catholic. So I don't. Barrier to communication. There's a world in which I can talk to him about religion and he supports me yet disagrees, and yet I still want to talk about it.

 

If she felt comfortable to talk to him, even if he disagrees, save for her being deliberately (instead of fearfully) dishonest, I think she would. And then he can say he doesn't like it but he's glad she's being honest. But that's not the way this went. She didn't get caught in bed with the guy, she got caught fibbing (presumably she's scared or ashamed to say she communicates with him). There is little reason to be oh so distraught and hurt for weeks over this fib unless she's actually cheating, and that's what I'm saying. Different perspective -- we all handle it differently.

[breener]

I am sorry but I don't see any other likely thing.

 

Something just doesn't sit right with this.

 

I think too that you are a pretty smart guy. If this is the case then you know, somewhere in your gut. Not just some off jealously feeling or something like insecurity. But you know deep down that it is something more.

 

Now, if you don't then maybe she is just incredibly social ignorant or something. But even still she lied a lot about it.

 

Lying in reference to meeting up with an old flame multiple times would be a deal breaker for me even if infidelity wasn't there.

 

Yes I think that is where it is for me too.... the fact that she chose to lie and deceive me to see an old lover is alarming (especially multiple times). Added to the fact that she said that she had "no idea why seeing him for coffee was so important" and she has never been able to answer that: I asked (I know she knows why and she is refusing to admit it to me).

 

This whole situation doesn't sit right..... it isn't like I pushed her to it by being jealous.... and I am caring and attentive so there isn't neglect..... she needs to feel that adrenalin and excitement again is my guess. She has said that I am her longest relationship so maybe she is bored and needs some "external excitement."

 

Do I think it has gone physical? I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if that is where she wants it to go.... why would she go to great measures to hide it? Why did she balk when I said that if he is such a great guy, then I'd like to meet him... and she said she wouldn't like that as it would make her feel weird. Also, why was it HER that initiated contact with him and initiated them meeting up? For me, being in a committed relationship, that would be the farthest thing from my mind; message an old FWB and ask to meet for coffee.

 

None of it makes any sense to me.

[thealchemist]

I think it's possible that he's being too dramatic and too passive at the same time. It might be difficult for me to put into words, but there is a theatrical way to handle things, and an assertive way to handle things. We both agree she's in the wrong here 100%, but I can imagine a world where she hides her desire to be friends because she's worried about the ramifications of doing so. For instance, I'd love to talk religion with my dad, but if I do, he might flip that his family is not all Catholic. So I don't. Barrier to communication. There's a world in which I can talk to him about religion and he supports me yet disagrees, and yet I still want to talk about it.

 

If she felt comfortable to talk to him, even if he disagrees, save for her being deliberately (instead of fearfully) dishonest, I think she would. And then he can say he doesn't like it but he's glad she's being honest. But that's not the way this went. She didn't get caught in bed with the guy, she got caught fibbing (presumably she's scared or ashamed to say she communicates with him). There is little reason to be oh so distraught and hurt for weeks over this fib unless she's actually cheating, and that's what I'm saying. Different perspective -- we all handle it differently.

I could totally frame her as you described expect one thing.

 

She refuses to stop.

 

She is essentially showing him that the relationship with her ex fwb is more important to her than she is letting on. Because she is allowing it to get in between her and her husband.

 

Her refusing to stop seeing this guy while portraying bull crap "evidence" that she is being honest doesn't bode well.

[Pleasedonot5]

So how do you "know" that I over-react and act all hurt? She is projecting that on me because that is exactly how she would react (from her own mouth). We are very similar but we do have some fundamental differences as well though. I wouldn't have cared if she wanted to see him and catch up but was honest about it. I had enough confidence in our marriage that I wouldn't have had any reason to worry. The fact that she lied and kept it hidden for months is the fundamental issue.

 

Was I hurt when I found out that she was lying to me for months and seeing a former lover, of course. I don't know who wouldn't be.

 

As for tagging along the next time they catch up, I said that I should come if he's such a great guy and a good friend, and she said she would not like that as it would feel weird..... so he still remains a mystery.

Haha I didn't mean for my use of "quotes" to catch on like they did! No passive-aggressiveness intended.

 

I do think that you need to take an honest look at yourself. Are you the kind of guy who would overreact, even if just to pout or start a fight if she mentioned that to you? Do you readily compromise, and acknowledge her position? I ask not because I'm questioning your character... Your honest answer may shed light on why she lied. If you put yourself in her position (literally, imagine being in her shoes), can you imagine a scenario where you have a friend you want to see, but (you felt) your spouse would pout or freak out if you asked? If you can't imagine that, because you're not like that at all, then imagine her feeling that way, but incorrectly.

 

Her feeling weird about bringing you along is a little off-putting, I'll admit.

 

She's ashamed of something, but what? You're not sure she's physically cheated, so I wouldn't jump to that. Maybe she has a crush on the guy and is ashamed of it? Might be worth approaching this from a position of logic, strength, and trying to understand. The more constructive communication and compromise you can have here, the better.

 

Also, I'll add that personally, I don't think that typically, spouses should be seeing the opposite gender 1-1 save for special circumstance. So understand I'm approaching this from a position that is primarily critical of her, as well.

[thealchemist]

Yes I think that is where it is for me too.... the fact that she chose to lie and deceive me to see an old lover is alarming (especially multiple times). Added to the fact that she said that she had "no idea why seeing him for coffee was so important" and she has never been able to answer that: I asked (I know she knows why and she is refusing to admit it to me).

 

This whole situation doesn't sit right..... it isn't like I pushed her to it by being jealous.... and I am caring and attentive so there isn't neglect..... she needs to feel that adrenalin and excitement again is my guess. She has said that I am her longest relationship so maybe she is bored and needs some "external excitement."

 

Do I think it has gone physical? I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if that is where she wants it to go.... why would she go to great measures to hide it? Why did she balk when I said that if he is such a great guy, then I'd like to meet him... and she said she wouldn't like that as it would make her feel weird. Also, why was it HER that initiated contact with him and initiated them meeting up? For me, being in a committed relationship, that would be the farthest thing from my mind; message an old FWB and ask to meet for coffee.

 

None of it makes any sense to me.

You hit all the points that are bothering me as well.

 

You seem pretty objective and logical about this.

 

My thoughts too. It might not be physical... yet.

 

But everything you have outlined in this post stinks to high heaven.

[breener]

I think it's possible that he's being too dramatic and too passive at the same time. It might be difficult for me to put into words, but there is a theatrical way to handle things, and an assertive way to handle things. We both agree she's in the wrong here 100%, but I can imagine a world where she hides her desire to be friends because she's worried about the ramifications of doing so. For instance, I'd love to talk religion with my dad, but if I do, he might flip that his family is not all Catholic. So I don't. Barrier to communication. There's a world in which I can talk to him about religion and he supports me yet disagrees, and yet I still want to talk about it.

 

If she felt comfortable to talk to him, even if he disagrees, save for her being deliberately (instead of fearfully) dishonest, I think she would. And then he can say he doesn't like it but he's glad she's being honest. But that's not the way this went. She didn't get caught in bed with the guy, she got caught fibbing (presumably she's scared or ashamed to say she communicates with him). There is little reason to be oh so distraught and hurt for weeks over this fib unless she's actually cheating, and that's what I'm saying. Different perspective -- we all handle it differently.

 

Thanks for the insight.... I think the root of it all is HER jealousy and insecurity (we have had our share of fights because she was jealous of things that weren't there), and how she thinks I would react the same as she would have. So, in her mind, to make me not get upset, jealous, and feel insecure (the things she would have felt if the tables were turned), she hid it from me..... even if it was innocent coffee dates over the span of 4 months.

 

That is fundamentally where we differed. I wouldn't have been insecure or jealous if she just told the truth. Would I have loved it if she said she wanted to have coffee with a former FWB, I will be honest and say no, but I wouldn't have stopped it either. I had that much trust in her (she was cheated on once before so she knows the feeling). I for one had confidence in our marriage and trust for her. Her actions eroded both of those. I mean she went through a lot of effort to hide something that she says is innocent. So by her actions multiple times made me lose trust in her shook my confidence in the marriage.

[ThatwasThen]

She said that ultimately she doesn't want to give up her friendship with him

Then why not suggest a few boundaries wherein she doesn't have private, behind your back meetings with him and instead she introduces you to him and the only time she spends time with I'm is if you're there too and you also become his 'friend.' I can almost guarantee you that he'll fade from the scene if there are boundaries in place. Even if he doesn't, you'll be a part of the friendship which (IMO) is a good romantic relationship boundary to have in place when you are talking about opposite sex friendships when in a monogamous committed relationship.

[thealchemist]

Then why not suggest a few boundaries wherein she doesn't have private, behind your back meetings with him and instead she introduces you to him and the only time she spends time with I'm is if you're there too and you also become his 'friend.' I can almost guarantee you that he'll fade from the scene if there are boundaries in place. Even if he doesn't, you'll be a part of the friendship which (IMO) is a good romantic relationship boundary to have in place when you are talking about opposite sex friendships when in a monogamous committed relationship.

She refused to let her husband meet her ex fwb.

 

He has tried to set boundaries it seems.

[Pleasedonot5]

Thanks for the insight.... I think the root of it all is HER jealousy and insecurity (we have had our share of fights because she was jealous of things that weren't there), and how she thinks I would react the same as she would have. So, in her mind, to make me not get upset, jealous, and feel insecure (the things she would have felt if the tables were turned), she hid it from me..... even if it was innocent coffee dates over the span of 4 months.

 

That is fundamentally where we differed. I wouldn't have been insecure or jealous if she just told the truth. Would I have loved it if she said she wanted to have coffee with a former FWB, I will be honest and say no, but I wouldn't have stopped it either. I had that much trust in her (she was cheated on once before so she knows the feeling). I for one had confidence in our marriage and trust for her. Her actions eroded both of those. I mean she went through a lot of effort to hide something that she says is innocent. So by her actions multiple times made me lose trust in her shook my confidence in the marriage.

You say you understand why she hid it... So seeing things from her shoes, you understand why she fibbed? It was her, not you. This is what I mean about theatrics... She lied, but she didn't cheat (as far as we know). You should be disappointed that she lied, but this doesn't need to be a trust-destroyer or marriage killer. Check the ego bruise and get to the root of the issue.

 

She's an insecure, non-confrontational spouse. Find a way to work through that. Or don't, and uproot both of your lives with divorce (not advised). Approach this with compassion and assertiveness. You're in a marriage and a marriage means life partners; you were bound to run into something at some point, and it's better two lies over ten years than something far worse.

 

Again, I say this while agreeing with you at the core. She's in the wrong, for sure.

[ThatwasThen]

She refused to let her husband meet her ex fwb.

 

He has tried to set boundaries it seems.

I must admit, I did not read the entire thread. I will go back and do so now though.

 

If she refuses to introduce them and she still wants to maintain this private and IMO inappropriate relationship then I'd be letting her have him. Time to exit.

[Hollyj]

"Why did she balk when I said that if he is such a great guy, then I'd like to meet him... and she said she wouldn't like that as it would make her feel weird. "

This is all you need to know. If it were innocent, she would have been happy for you two to meet.

 

i would seek an attorney.

[Hollyj]

Haha I didn't mean for my use of "quotes" to catch on like they did! No passive-aggressiveness intended.

 

I do think that you need to take an honest look at yourself. Are you the kind of guy who would overreact, even if just to pout or start a fight if she mentioned that to you? Do you readily compromise, and acknowledge her position? I ask not because I'm questioning your character... Your honest answer may shed light on why she lied. If you put yourself in her position (literally, imagine being in her shoes), can you imagine a scenario where you have a friend you want to see, but (you felt) your spouse would pout or freak out if you asked? If you can't imagine that, because you're not like that at all, then imagine her feeling that way, but incorrectly.

 

Her feeling weird about bringing you along is a little off-putting, I'll admit.

 

She's ashamed of something, but what? You're not sure she's physically cheated, so I wouldn't jump to that. Maybe she has a crush on the guy and is ashamed of it? Might be worth approaching this from a position of logic, strength, and trying to understand. The more constructive communication and compromise you can have here, the better.

 

Also, I'll add that personally, I don't think that typically, spouses should be seeing the opposite gender 1-1 save for special circumstance. So understand I'm approaching this from a position that is primarily critical of her, as well.

 

I think that we are all reading a different thread , than you. I don't understand your responses. At all!