Starting a happy single life

[Batya33]

You already were given great input, IMO about how to reach your goals -in this thread and recently. Was that not helpful (I don't think I was the one and if I chimed in that's all it was). I think you're burying yourself in generalizations and psychobabble -and even if you do have actual mental health issues you have to deal with those in a specific concrete way -like by finding a good therapist.

[firelily]

Yay I got my dream temporary job at the skating rink. I spent 5 hours designing cv specifically for it because I got so hyped So that's some start. I'm financially fine for the next 2,5 months and then I'll have to figure out what to do next. I also consider moving out for these 2 months just to try it, if there is a really budget option that would allow me to support myself. Life is moving forward, in a scary speed.

[firelily]

You already were given great input, IMO about how to reach your goals -in this thread and recently. Was that not helpful (I don't think I was the one and if I chimed in that's all it was). I think you're burying yourself in generalizations and psychobabble -and even if you do have actual mental health issues you have to deal with those in a specific concrete way -like by finding a good therapist.

 

Yes, the input here is absolutely great! But of course it's one thing to hear good advice, but it takes some time to actually implement it, changes can take years and trial&error and many means of psychological support. I started this thread as sort of a sel-therapy experiment and it turned into a great group therapy experience. So thank you all for the help so far

[Batya33]

Yes, the input here is absolutely great! But of course it's one thing to hear good advice, but it takes some time to actually implement it, changes can take years and trial&error and many means of psychological support. I started this thread as sort of a sel-therapy experiment and it turned into a great group therapy experience. So thank you all for the help so far

 

No, baby steps do not take years. Maybe 24 hours. Maybe. Many require no psychological support at all. Some require things like an empty cup (for water), sneakers (for moving your body), a means of electronic communication (for most job hunting or looking for volunteer opportunities), etc. Don't indulge in that kind of excuse to tell yourself why start since it takes "years". No one referred to actual big changes occurring, just baby steps. Your choice, your control.

 

About 15-20 years ago a new person started at my office. We had lunch with him. He gave a 15 minute talk about what he did. It seemed interesting to me. So after the lunch I approached him and spoke maybe three sentences - I said that I found his area interesting, and would love to get an assignment from him to learn more. That was the beginning of a 10 year mentor-mentee relationship and we are still in regular touch.

 

About 25 years ago I went to a breakfast in a conference room at my office to meet the new employees. I was new too -started a month earlier. I saw a guy standing alone who obviously didn't know anyone because the others had interned together. So I crossed the room and introduced myself. It was a huge company so if I hadn't done that I likely would never have met him or even seen him around much. I had a boyfriend at the time. 14 years later, we got married and had a child.

 

and to continue the theme of my baby steps in my 20s and 30s, many years ago I was job hunting for a temp job before graduate school. I answered an ad for being a receptionist. During the interview the woman looked at my resume and said she didn't buy that with my level of education I'd be happy being a receptionist. We'd been talking for about 15 minutes. So I said "you are right, actually, I'd like to work for you". She asked me what I would do as her assistant (she was a headhunter) -she hadn't been looking for an assistant. I told her and was hired on the spot.

 

And I went on hundreds of dates that went nowhere, and during my last job search pounded the pavement from my computer mostly while full time parenting on leads that went nowhere (until it did, about 1 year later), and I went on a ski trip and gave up as soon as I had skis on. And cried the rest of the day on a pay phone to my mommy. And I broke two engagements, one right before the wedding. So this is not about wow I am awesome but showing you that it's not about slowness and psychological support -it's about growing some and taking small risks and putting yourself out there.

[firelily]

Well of course baby steps need to be taken now and not in a faraway future. But I don't believe it's possible to expect anyone to wake up the next day as a radically changed human being. At least this is an approach I'd like to use like a life coach - not expect my clients to reborn themselves in a day, but work with them through obstacles that will appear on the way, try new things and make a progress in their own timeline. I think if anyone expects themselves to do everything perfectly from the next day, they are just setting themselves for a disappointment. So on my working through some issues with self-esteem, motivation, discipline, human relations, and resilience, I'm prepared to take time to make real lasting changes. It's one thing to put on a show for a week or two, but deeper needs take a longer time to process. Not necessarily years, but for example I'm gonna say I changed my diet if I managed to stick to it for at least half a year.

[Jibralta]

But I don't believe it's possible to expect anyone to wake up the next day as a radically changed human being.

 

Not radically changed, but minus the negative self-talk. I don't think you realize how much you do it. If you stopped it, you would naturally rise to the occasion.

 

The only change would be to gag that voice. That's one less thing to manage, not a radical change.

[firelily]

How is that not a radical change? Stopping being a negative person? Yay, I'm gonna be optimist from tomorrow? I just know things come hard, because I've seen my downfalls, but I still go forward and hope it can get better.

[Batya33]

Well of course baby steps need to be taken now and not in a faraway future. But I don't believe it's possible to expect anyone to wake up the next day as a radically changed human being. At least this is an approach I'd like to use like a life coach - not expect my clients to reborn themselves in a day, but work with them through obstacles that will appear on the way, try new things and make a progress in their own timeline. I think if anyone expects themselves to do everything perfectly from the next day, they are just setting themselves for a disappointment. So on my working through some issues with self-esteem, motivation, discipline, human relations, and resilience, I'm prepared to take time to make real lasting changes. It's one thing to put on a show for a week or two, but deeper needs take a longer time to process. Not necessarily years, but for example I'm gonna say I changed my diet if I managed to stick to it for at least half a year.

 

Now it's clear that you want to stay in your negative comfort zone because of the way you're exaggerating the input you've been given. Your way is the easier way. Not ultimately the happy way. If you actually need to re-read the input do so but only if you're ready to read it without the exaggeration/dramatization.

[firelily]

Now it's clear that you want to stay in your negative comfort zone because of the way you're exaggerating the input you've been given. Your way is the easier way. Not ultimately the happy way. If you actually need to re-read the input do so but only if you're ready to read it without the exaggeration/dramatization.

 

Batya, how am I staying in a negative comfort zone? I wrote a just found a job today. If this doesn't qualify as a step forward, what does?

[Batya33]

Sorry I just read the part where you think you are being told to make radical changes and all of a sudden be optimistic. No one did. That’s great that you found a job. Good for you!

[firelily]

Sorry I just read the part where you think you are being told to make radical changes and all of a sudden be optimistic. No one did. That’s great that you found a job. Good for you!

 

Thanks

[dias]

Batya, how am I staying in a negative comfort zone? I wrote a just found a job today. If this doesn't qualify as a step forward, what does?

 

That fast? Well done!

 

Changes come only from actions. Through actions you change your outlook on life-and it takes time unfortunately! Good job finding a job

[firelily]

That fast? Well done!

 

Changes come only from actions. Through actions you change your outlook on life-and it takes time unfortunately! Good job finding a job

 

Thanks I do feel much better and hopeful today.

 

I didn't do much for a job search. Talk about efficiency! Last week I entered my favourite ice skating rink fanpage to read when they are opened this season, and I noticed that 5 hours before they posted a job ad, so I thought "hey! I need to get this job!". So I spent the next few hours designing a creative CV with ice theme (snowflakes instead of bullet points) and the funny photo of me in winter hat in a snowy area. I took that photo that morning, in a park that's actually my job location lol. I sent out the CV with the letter that I love winter and ice skating and people and that they have to hire me I was hyped about the job, though it's temporary, but I didn't want to expect too much before the interview that was today. The interview was actually a welcome talk to the team. During the talk, I saw the note on my boss' notepad at it said "11 AM - Fire Lily - loves winter"

 

So my new approach works - let people know in advance that I'm crazy, and if they're into it, then I'd probably enjoy working for them. I'll try to avoid companies that expect a formal CV and dress code, because they probably won't be a good match.

 

Getting that job buys me more time to think about what to do next or long term plans, and could give me a lot of life motivation. I'm pretty happy

[reinventmyself]

I wish I had a dollar for every time I said or thought `just when you least expect it, in an instant your life can change'

I remind myself this when I am in a funk or think I am stuck. It just never stays that way for very long.

 

Post divorce I challenged myself to make a couple radical decisions. I found myself at the job I have now (that I was not qualified for at the time, but don't tell anyone) Sitting on the steps in a large city business district, shaking my head and looking back at only moments ago thinking `how the heck did I get here?' One puzzle piece moves and the rest have to follow. So many add'l changes happened as a result of this.

 

Just continue to shake things up. You'll be amazed as to what else shows up.

Congrats on the job!

[firelily]

I wish I had a dollar for every time I said or thought `just when you least expect it, in an instant your life can change'

I remind myself this when I am in a funk or think I am stuck. It just never stays that way for very long.

 

Post divorce I challenged myself to make a couple radical decisions. I found myself at the job I have now (that I was not qualified for at the time, but don't tell anyone) Sitting on the steps in a large city business district, shaking my head and looking back at only moments ago thinking `how the heck did I get here?' One puzzle piece moves and the rest have to follow. So many add'l changes happened as a result of this.

 

Just continue to shake things up. You'll be amazed as to what else shows up.

Congrats on the job!

 

Thanks!

 

It really is like that. I love that about life.

 

It can be amazing like that, changing everything 180 degree from a miserable helpless state to an exciting adventure. And sometimes it changes from a total bliss to a deep suffering in just a moment, too. I guess we just need to surf on the waves of life, as they come and go.

 

Nice to hear that it worked out so fine for you. It was pretty smart of you to do well in that job in the beginning despite your lack of qualifications, it must have taken a lot of inner strength. Glad you found it in you

[firelily]

Update: My friend agreed that I can rent a room from him if I want for the two months that I have my temp job for a money that I could afford. I'm gonna think a few days about it, but it could be such a great option! Even if just to try something new for a moment.

[Batya33]

Thanks I do feel much better and hopeful today.

 

I didn't do much for a job search. Talk about efficiency! Last week I entered my favourite ice skating rink fanpage to read when they are opened this season, and I noticed that 5 hours before they posted a job ad, so I thought "hey! I need to get this job!". So I spent the next few hours designing a creative CV with ice theme (snowflakes instead of bullet points) and the funny photo of me in winter hat in a snowy area. I took that photo that morning, in a park that's actually my job location lol. I sent out the CV with the letter that I love winter and ice skating and people and that they have to hire me I was hyped about the job, though it's temporary, but I didn't want to expect too much before the interview that was today. The interview was actually a welcome talk to the team. During the talk, I saw the note on my boss' notepad at it said "11 AM - Fire Lily - loves winter"

 

So my new approach works - let people know in advance that I'm crazy, and if they're into it, then I'd probably enjoy working for them. I'll try to avoid companies that expect a formal CV and dress code, because they probably won't be a good match.

 

Getting that job buys me more time to think about what to do next or long term plans, and could give me a lot of life motivation. I'm pretty happy

 

Sounds like a good temp job! I wouldn't paint all companies that require a typical CV and have a dress code in one broad generalized brush stroke - it's kind of self sabotaging IMO. I have a relative in his 50s who refuses to wear a collared shirt. He loves music. He's worked in record (yes, vinyl records and CD) stores most of his life typically as a clerk, sometimes as assistant manager. He is often unemployed and typically underemployed ,with horrible working hours. Many companies require a traditional CV because they just need to know the facts about your background in order to see if you're worth interviewing. My job required that plus a multiple page job application plus a number of references. Took me weeks to complete. We often have business casual dress and often have "jeans Friday'. My colleagues are very diverse in every way. I also wouldn't do the "I'm crazy" thing because then they just see photos and paper. Not you - show your edginess, your personality -after you get the job and slowly, like unwrapping a multi-layered package.

[itsallgrand]

Hey, that's some good news! Well done, firelily!

[firelily]

Sounds like a good temp job! I wouldn't paint all companies that require a typical CV and have a dress code in one broad generalized brush stroke - it's kind of self sabotaging IMO. I have a relative in his 50s who refuses to wear a collared shirt. He loves music. He's worked in record (yes, vinyl records and CD) stores most of his life typically as a clerk, sometimes as assistant manager. He is often unemployed and typically underemployed ,with horrible working hours. Many companies require a traditional CV because they just need to know the facts about your background in order to see if you're worth interviewing. My job required that plus a multiple page job application plus a number of references. Took me weeks to complete. We often have business casual dress and often have "jeans Friday'. My colleagues are very diverse in every way. I also wouldn't do the "I'm crazy" thing because then they just see photos and paper. Not you - show your edginess, your personality -after you get the job and slowly, like unwrapping a multi-layered package.

 

I can make a CV with some real good content, but in pink Just an example, but what I mean is, being my authentic self will probably pay off better than trying to fit in. If I'm afraid to show my authentic self and pretend to be someone else before even starting the job, what are my chances of being happy there? If I want a job where I can feel comfortable being myself? I don't think it's self-sabotaging, just setting the priorities for myself. I'm not some inflexible hippie, I'm just tired of feeling ashamed of what makes me unique and trying to come off as a normal human, and then suffering because I don't feel accepted.

 

So that's what I think I need, but of course there are people who have different priorities and do well adapting to a formal, professional environment. I'm pretty sure your relative is not one of these people. You may think he's unhappy in his lifestyle, but there's no guarantee he would be happy making a typical career and wearing a mask. Maybe he feels more respect to himself, being faithful to his choices, than he would if he chose something else. I mean I don't know what. But I know the career path that is working out great for you wouldn't make everyone as happy, and vice versa.

[Batya33]

I can make a CV with some real good content, but in pink Just an example, but what I mean is, being my authentic self will probably pay off better than trying to fit in. If I'm afraid to show my authentic self and pretend to be someone else before even starting the job, what are my chances of being happy there? If I want a job where I can feel comfortable being myself? I don't think it's self-sabotaging, just setting the priorities for myself. I'm not some inflexible hippie, I'm just tired of feeling ashamed of what makes me unique and trying to come off as a normal human, and then suffering because I don't feel accepted.

 

So that's what I think I need, but of course there are people who have different priorities and do well adapting to a formal, professional environment. I'm pretty sure your relative is not one of these people. You may think he's unhappy in his lifestyle, but there's no guarantee he would be happy making a typical career and wearing a mask. Maybe he feels more respect to himself, being faithful to his choices, than he would if he chose something else. I mean I don't know what. But I know the career path that is working out great for you wouldn't make everyone as happy, and vice versa.

 

He's not happy -he's constantly scrambling for money and in his 50s and living with his father. I believe he's made those sabotaging choices based on depression.

 

Showing your authentic self does not require putting it all out there to strangers who are potential employers (or a potential spouse, on a first meet or within the first number of dates IMO). And to me that's just not a good strategy. Let people get to know you slowly over time and if you want to be employed and show some flexibility, then you put your best impression forward in every single way you possibly can and you have in mind your (short) list of dealbreakers -and keep those to yourself - but just explore through google, others you know in the industry, etc. whether your dealbreakers are there. I am not referring to a highly formal professional environment -there's a huge rane out there.

 

Yes most jobs require acting in a professional way -not letting it all hang out- it's work, not a party, not a social activity, etc. So yes you be your authentic professional self at work. You don't get to "be yourself" the way you define it -you get to be your professional self and you get to let it all hang out with your loved ones, friends, acquaintances, workout buddies, etc. Cultivate a hobby to do that.

 

I had a long term boyfriend who worked in the corporate world by day and in his free time he pursued his artistic passion.And when the corporate world got a bit stifling he took a one year leave to work on his artistic passions. Which really derailed his progress at his career but that was a tradeoff he made. So he didn't throw out the whole corporate thing he just balanced it.

 

I got a really annoying email from a superior at work -he wasn't annoying, the work was because it involved a delay in a project that now I'm going to have to deal with even though I didn't cause the delay. If this wasn't work -if it was my husband who did this to me I would tell him exactly how I felt about it - because he's not my employer or colleague -he married me. And I'd find a way to stay reasonable about it but yes maybe I'd cry, or raise my voice, or show my feelings in some way. How did I react at work? I sent an email to my team members that was measured to convey that I'd just received this email about the project, that it would require a fairly significant amount of work, and I laid out my plan as to when and how I would get the work done, and ended with welcoming any input from them. It's not their business how I really feel and it's not fair to subject my colleagues to my "authentic" self in that way.

 

When I am at work and stressed I tell myself I am at a tea party (only been to two of those) and I act accordingly. Because it's work -they don't pay me to make pink CVs and they don't care if I like pink in a CV or in my socks or in my hair. And they shouldn't care. They want me to produce the work, to be pleasant and professional to work with, to be reliable and trustworthy and a good team player. They don't need to know what I like to put on my toast, my quirks about how I like my coffee, or all the ridiculously cute things my son says that are quotable over and over again. Yes, I hold back on those things because it is work. It's a balance -you can find a place where eventually -meaning once you've proved yourself, once you've been there a long time - you can reveal aspects of your personality that are quirky/odd/"crazy" as you put it -but wait till you've built up goodwill and then do it slooowly. I work with someone who is an impersonator of a celebrity as a hobby and he dresses the part at work. He can do that because he's awesome at what he does for work and a great person. He earned it.

[firelily]

He's not happy -he's constantly scrambling for money and in his 50s and living with his father. I believe he's made those sabotaging choices based on depression.

 

Showing your authentic self does not require putting it all out there to strangers who are potential employers (or a potential spouse, on a first meet or within the first number of dates IMO). And to me that's just not a good strategy. Let people get to know you slowly over time and if you want to be employed and show some flexibility, then you put your best impression forward in every single way you possibly can and you have in mind your (short) list of dealbreakers -and keep those to yourself - but just explore through google, others you know in the industry, etc. whether your dealbreakers are there. I am not referring to a highly formal professional environment -there's a huge rane out there.

 

Yes most jobs require acting in a professional way -not letting it all hang out- it's work, not a party, not a social activity, etc. So yes you be your authentic professional self at work. You don't get to "be yourself" the way you define it -you get to be your professional self and you get to let it all hang out with your loved ones, friends, acquaintances, workout buddies, etc. Cultivate a hobby to do that.

 

I had a long term boyfriend who worked in the corporate world by day and in his free time he pursued his artistic passion.And when the corporate world got a bit stifling he took a one year leave to work on his artistic passions. Which really derailed his progress at his career but that was a tradeoff he made. So he didn't throw out the whole corporate thing he just balanced it.

 

I got a really annoying email from a superior at work -he wasn't annoying, the work was because it involved a delay in a project that now I'm going to have to deal with even though I didn't cause the delay. If this wasn't work -if it was my husband who did this to me I would tell him exactly how I felt about it - because he's not my employer or colleague -he married me. And I'd find a way to stay reasonable about it but yes maybe I'd cry, or raise my voice, or show my feelings in some way. How did I react at work? I sent an email to my team members that was measured to convey that I'd just received this email about the project, that it would require a fairly significant amount of work, and I laid out my plan as to when and how I would get the work done, and ended with welcoming any input from them. It's not their business how I really feel and it's not fair to subject my colleagues to my "authentic" self in that way.

 

When I am at work and stressed I tell myself I am at a tea party (only been to two of those) and I act accordingly. Because it's work -they don't pay me to make pink CVs and they don't care if I like pink in a CV or in my socks or in my hair. And they shouldn't care. They want me to produce the work, to be pleasant and professional to work with, to be reliable and trustworthy and a good team player. They don't need to know what I like to put on my toast, my quirks about how I like my coffee, or all the ridiculously cute things my son says that are quotable over and over again. Yes, I hold back on those things because it is work. It's a balance -you can find a place where eventually -meaning once you've proved yourself, once you've been there a long time - you can reveal aspects of your personality that are quirky/odd/"crazy" as you put it -but wait till you've built up goodwill and then do it slooowly. I work with someone who is an impersonator of a celebrity as a hobby and he dresses the part at work. He can do that because he's awesome at what he does for work and a great person. He earned it.

 

I admire you for your attitude to professional work. However, that is the opposite of what I want in life I see absolutely no point in dedicating 50% of my days to producing some (probably meaningless) work for the money around people who don't care who I am, who aren't my friends, and having this dichotomy between "professional" and "personal". I think that whole culture is fake and designed by some sad men in recent times.

 

]

 

Who decided clothes like suits and ties are proper clothes for working? Who decided you have to treat career and family as a separate entities, and that you get to be "yourself" only in the latter? That the value of what you do is in the money you bring home, and that you have to basically suck it up for a few hours to buy yourself IKEA furniture later? In my opinion it's just wasting your precious lifetime - you only get one short life! Why spend it on all this meaningless formality? I have a feeling like you might say I'm self-sabotaging myself. But why would I be ashamed of my values? Why should I try living against them? Fortunately for me, Millenials are creating now a different world from the one that was before. They are pushing another culture in which you get to be yourself in work, you get to show your hobbies, your creativity and who you are, where you can work not only for money, but the work itself gives you a sense of doing something good with your time. Where you can spend the time around friends - not only pretend corporation friends, but really about people with whom you'll want to hang out on Halloween, vacations, with whom you'll want to share your personal stories. My brother worked in a more "modern" company - he's left the company 8 years ago to be a freelancer, and still he gets to go to every party they organize, not for any "networking", but just because he misses his friends. This is a fantastic world of different values. In companies like that, if you get your job right, aside from bonus you get a Star Wars pillow because your team knows how you love Star Wars. During lunch, you cook the recipe you just found out to serve some food to your colleagues, just because you feel like it. It might be a different world from the one you were raised in and the one that suits your needs, so it might be a generational and personal difference between us. To me it's crucial to dedicate my life to a place that is rather freestyle and personal. Doing it your way would make me deeply unhappy.

[firelily]

And of course it goes both ways - I like people's quirks! I would like them to show me who they are. To know how they live. I tend to like most people around me. It's awesome to get to know them, not only on a very surface level. That's the whole point of life for me - having authentic relationships. I see no reason for people to behave differently around each other in work that they would on studies, a language course or a knitting group. Respectful but relaxed.

[Batya33]

And of course it goes both ways - I like people's quirks! I would like them to show me who they are. To know how they live. I tend to like most people around me. It's awesome to get to know them, not only on a very surface level. That's the whole point of life for me - having authentic relationships. I see no reason for people to behave differently around each other in work that they would on studies, a language course or a knitting group. Respectful but relaxed.

 

Yes -it's the difference between your professional and personal life and often that's a huge and essential distinction. When you are the boss then of course you can create a work environment where people act as you described and be prepared in most cases for it to affect your bottom line negatively because if you encourage that kind of personal behavior and letting it all hang out they will feel understandably comfortable not being as productive or reliable because just as with our close friends, we do want to hear about what's really going on with them emotionally and medically, etc in detail and if it's personal and not work a "sorry, just need some space today to get things done so let's chat tomorrow" or "I have to go now because [my dog] is needing my attention so the rest of our workout will have to wait". Not that people will intentionally be unproductive, but once you have an "anything goes" and want people to share their deepest feelings, anxieties, and every detail of their lives you're going to have far less leverage to reinforce getting the job done right and on time.

 

It's great to have productive, positive, team-building -professional- relationships at work. And if you do your approach at work when you're new, or an employee vs. employer/owner you're not going to hold jobs very long. People like to see other people respecting appropriate boundaries in the workplace -which vary by workplace with some typical denominators/boundaries. For example, it's too easy for your let it all hang out/authenticity to come across as inappropriate and get you in trouble with human resources even though you didn't intend it. Even though you were "respectful" -because respectful on a personal/deep level can look very different from respectful on a professional level.

 

It's also great to develop close friendships at and through work -I have and am now -and met my husband at work. But again, at work the boundaries kick in and if it's a supervisor/boss you have to be very careful about the friendship while you still work there.

[firelily]

I guess if I had my own company, I wouldn't want to have a leverage over people to make sure they provide the work on time. I'd want people to identify with the company's goals and want to do the work - I would just provide the setting for them to do so, clients, workplace, management, technology, security. I wouldn't want my employees to be anxious and miserable, especially because of something in their work. People's happiness is more important to me than making the company prosper and be on a winning position on the market. Happiness is more important than money. I don't know when people will wake up and realize that money is just a piece of paper that can buy some forms of happiness, but if you aren't happy, it won't mean a thing. Humanity spends soo much work on this. Jeans produced by miserable employees in underdeveloped countries, sold on Black Friday for 50% to make people buy, buy, buy. Companies producing cigarettes to make people sick, thousands of people working to advertise the products people don't want, the product they have to work for in another silly job, thousands of people working hard so that their company produces more money than company B also selling cigarettes, that's hiring the same amount of people. And they all think making the company prosper is more important than anything else. The employees work 10 hours a day clicking the tickets, around people they don't care about, so that they could afford 2 week vacations. There are so many beautiful things that can be done in life. I'd really rather work in NGO or a helping profession, making less money so I'll have to be creative about travelling, making the job I think is meaningful. Hopefully in a friendly, warm, human atmosphere - that doesn't mean no boundaries or pouring personal problems on strangers. And definitely no HR stuff. People will not become sexually invasive just because the company allows them to be friendly and normal like on studies. Just a different balance, the emphasis on being fulfilled and making a positive impact on the world and not participating in creating a well sold product. Like I said, fortunately for me there are more and more businesses nowadays operating on these idealistic principles.

 

I mixed a few things here. But my point is, I have a different set of values. My dream workplace is the one with a different set of values from a traditional ones. I know it is absolutely to lead a business like that. I know people don't need a carrot and a stick, I have many friends volunteering or some projects together with no financial incentive. I think it is absolutely possible for the same people to do some meaningful work in a possibly fun atmosphere while being rewarded and not having to be particularly "leveraged" into working.

 

Just as I'm glad you found a place for yourself where you can prosper and feel fulfilled, a place which shares your values about how the work needs to get done. I'm pretty sure no amount of work experience will make me drastically change my views about business and my needs. Maybe on application, but not in the core.

[Batya33]

What you wrote has almost nothing to do with what I wrote (and to me it's not the financial incentive only -volunteer work also has a goal -and requires productivity, reliability to get the work product or service done - I've volunteered for many years, probably longer than you've been alive lol). For me the motivation was to get the job done and make a contribution -the money wasn't the motivation.

 

Nothing to do with happiness = money at all and you have a very narrow definition of "happy" - hard work makes me happy - not anxious or miserable - many feel the same -challenging myself makes me happy and if my boss believes that I can get the job done and I do get it done and she acknowledges it in some way as in "good job", that makes me happy -much happier than if she sent me an email asking me how my son was feeling that morning or telling me that I seem like a really good person who cares about the world. I would find the workplace you describe anxiety provoking because of the lack of professional boundaries, because of the "let it all hang out" mentality, the emphasis on being "happy" in this amorphous way which many will take to mean that what they feel like doing on a whim is more important than the company's product or service goals.

 

Nothing about "leveraged" - I was referring to keeping a professional distance at work so that the job can get done and done right and efficiently. Most people need motivation to get at least part of their work done especially in crunch times. That can be money, appreciation, or just an internal sense of accomplishment (which is basically how it's always worked for me)

You can go down that path of maligning all companies that are for profit and come up with a million examples of corruption, scandal, how money is "just a piece of paper." If money is just a piece of paper why are you taking your parents' hard earned money and living at home -eating their food, using their space, etc.? What if they said "money is just a piece of paper, it's meaningless -so move out and see what you can do without financial backing". Easy for you to say that money is just a piece of paper and material goods result from corruption.

 

Oh and parenting is a job too - and yes you often need "leverage" to get your child to progress, improve, behave appropriately -it's a balancing act, unpredictable -but if you're not prepared to be a confident, firm, and positive leader for your child then you're not in my humble opinion going to be acting in the best interests of your child. Same at work -if you want to be buddies and let it all hang out and not be willing to take direction or delegate/give direction in an appropriate way (not in a toxic way -that would make no sense) -then you're going to have a hard time keeping a job and you'll likely create a CV that make people put it in the circular file because you'll have too many jobs of short duration without a cohesive explanation as to why you didn't last at each one. Circular file -traditionally CVs were on paper -the circular file = trash can.

 

Anyway, you seem to want to stick to your agenda and approach - and misinterpret what I am writing and take it to extremes. I have and have always had a lot of idealism as well and I am not all pro-corporate or pro-money. I also have a deadline at work lol so I'm going to get to that before I start my next job this afternoon (i.e parenting).