Separation/Divorce after 20 Years

[bwknight]

I think I'll leave those between us. Like I said some were valid. Some in my opinion were not. Like I said before I think the next couple of weeks will bring everything into clear focus. Appt. with attorney tomorrow.

[lostandhurt]

Knight,

 

She knows if she admits to any kind of cheating you will kick her out and start the divorce right away so don't believe off hand her insistence that there is nothing going on with someone else. I hope she hasn't but rarely do cheaters come clean until they are caught dead to rights.

 

The valid things she mentioned are some things you need to start working on and looking into why you do those things. why you thought it was okay to act in that manner and where those characteristics came from. Don't let her know you are working on them, just do it for yourself so you can be a better father, brother, friend, coworker and husband. You will be doing it for you, not her and there is not a better time to start than now.

 

Keep listening when she talks but don't interrupt or comment except to say something like. "Thank you for telling me that, it gives me a lot to think about" and then leave it alone.

 

Good luck at the lawyers today. Be sure to take a list of questions you want to ask. It is real easy to forget when you are sitting there.

 

The changes in her are a direct result of the changes she sees in you. She can see that you are about done and she is scared her safety net will disappear.

 

Her "reasons" for doing what she is doing (work, weight, appearance...) are all things she could have turned to you about but she chose to turn to someone else for attention, not solutions. My then wife during a heated exchange weeks after I had caught her told me "So you think our marriage was perfect?" I responded "No I never thought it was perfect but did letting some loser stick his d#%k in you make it better?" She just stood there with a blank look on her face and I asked the question again and she finally looked at the ground and said "No it didn't" I just walked away.

 

There are some good signs coming from her but be careful not to try and FIX things she mentions or to take everything she says as gospel. There is still a lot of dysfunction and they often say the things they think we want to hear to stretch this this thing out.

 

Let us know how you feel after your meeting with the lawyer.

 

Lost

[bwknight]

She actually knows she has a card to play. I had a short affair 15 years ago. I ended it but she found out and we worked through it, or so I thought. It's been brought up again over the past few weeks. Of course not admitting to something allows her to keep playing that card. Attorney has advised since I take care of finances to work over the next few weeks to get everything in order, spreadsheets of bills, costs, etc. Stay put, meaning do not leave the house. Document current arrangements around splitting kid duty, etc. Document through texts, emails and always be the reasonable one in writing. I could certainly be on the hook for a good chunk for spousal support since when she stayed home I was okay with it. Child support could be a mute point with joint physical custody. She could contest that but our current arrangement suggests it's agreeable by both. Other things include giving lots of the space she has asked for and don't take the bait when cast out. Common ones include you didn't provide emotional support, didn't help enough with kids, around the house and some dig around sex.

[ThatwasThen]

Did you two go to marriage counselling after you cheated on her?

[bwknight]

Yes we did.

[lostandhurt]

Knight,

 

All good advice from the lawyer. The child support thing is state by state but most go solely on your income, her income and custody. For instance using the calculator for California if my ex had my son 99% of the time I would pay her almost $1,800 per month in child support. On the other hand if I had him 99% of the time she would pay me about $20 bucks a month. It isn't fair or just but it is often the case. We have 50/50 custody and I pay her a pretty good chunk each month. We used mediation so it was much better than letting the court decide.

 

I don't believe this has anything to do with your infidelity in the past but it certainly gives her ammunition. If she has cheated on you (emotionally or physically) would you still want to try and work things out?

 

Be careful getting all your documents in order so she doesn't catch on. Also don't try and bait her into saying something as family court is pretty savvy and can see right through that stuff and then you will be painted as the bad guy.

 

If counseling does come up I would not use the one from your church. She has already tainted that by talking to him/her alone and spinning her version of the truth.

 

You should feel somewhat relieved now that you have at least a contingency plan and something to do besides wait for her to changer her mind again.

 

Keep posting, take good care of yourself and spend more time alone with the kids. Make it simple, you don't want to be accused of being a Disneyland dad.

 

Lost

[bwknight]

Would I want to work things out if she has cheated. It would seem hypocritical if I say no. I think it would depend on more than just the affair. It would take a lot of honest heart to heart counseling.

[lostandhurt]

Well it may be hypocritical but if you simply cannot do it then you cannot do it and faking it will only draw this thing out. Personally I think you could manage to work it out, put those thoughts behind you and move forward.

 

Emotional affairs are actually much harder to recover from than physical affairs. The physical act is just that and is easy to stop but an emotional affair there is love and deep feelings involved.

 

The weekend is almost here. Do your parents live semi close by? How about taking the kids to visit the grandparents? I make these suggestions because it is a good idea to start practicing being a single dad. I am not saying it is over but doing these things is a two fold benefit. One it lets you bond closer to your kids and allows you to focus solely on them at those moments and two it gives her a taste of this freedom she thinks she wants. Basically turning fantasy into reality and we all know it is impossible to recreate a fantasy in real life.

 

Are you eating okay? Sleeping? Staying in touch with friends and family? Working out?

 

Lost

[bwknight]

Both of my parents have passed away. I'm getting out of the house with the kids a lot on weekends, but no place to take them overnight. I am eating okay and work out every other day. Friends are helping but I'm not sleeping well. Turning off brain at night isn't easy.

[lostandhurt]

I have been there and it is very hard to turn your brain off any time from thinking about all this. I finally came up with something that would help. When I found myself thinking about all the crap that was going on I would simply ask myself "What good will come from thinking about this?" the answer is always NOTHING and it helped me break the cycle.

 

There are so many things you cannot control at the moment so focus on what you can control and do. Make a list and keep it with you (on your phone works great) and when you feel lost take a look at your to do list and get to work on it. By keeping it with you all the time it lets you add and subtract things and keep busy. Of course the down time and when nothing is going on is when the thoughts creep in.

 

Do you have a friend that has a cabin or something you could use for a little get away with the kids? Do you ever go camping?

 

You are doing very well so far so keep posting what she is doing/saying and how you are feeling. We can help you see through the BS.

 

Lost

[bwknight]

The latest is that she seems more willing to talk but I don't necessarily know when that is and if it's the wrong time she gets pissed. And if we are talking and she's done but I'm not she uses the you're crossing boundaries. I said I don't want to talk about it anymore. It's like a boxing match, she gets in the punches she wants and then runs to the corner saying round is over. If I don't engage I don't care if I do we play by her rules

[lostandhurt]

Been there, done that.

 

She wants to get her "truth" out without being rebutted. Very common coming from someone that doesn't even believe what they are saying or thinking. Many times they will turn to good time friends that will agree with all the BS they spout. This may be the chat room thing you mentioned. She spins a tale of how terrible you are and lists all kinds of abusive things and they chime in and agree with her not knowing the real truth so she gets validation.

 

Dealing with it can be the most difficult because there is no mediator to call her on her crap and let you talk. The next time she wants to talk about the marriage/situation tell her. I would love to talk about all this but so far that is getting us nowhere so from now on I want to work on all this with a counselor so they can help us figure out what we should do.

 

 

This shows that you do indeed care and it puts the ball back in her court so if she refuses to go she has basically admitted that she isn't interested in saving the marriage. In this way she decides for you.

 

Putting them in a position where they have to make a firm choice can be tricky but in this instance she has to say yes or no to counseling. She may say "we can work it out ourselves" but remind her that so far there has been no clarity on the situation one way or another so it is time to see a professional.

 

If she still refuses and tries to talk to you about it just tell her once again you will be happy to talk all she wants with a counselor and then busy yourself with something away from her.

 

This will stop all this stalling she is doing.

 

It is time to start taking a firmer stand on some things as soon as you have all your ducks in a row.

 

Hang in there

 

Lost

[bwknight]

Good advice Lost. I'm about to throw up my hands and say you win, I quit.

[bwknight]

Saw counselor today. This is a Christian Counselor. After hearing the facts of the last week he says "I think getting ahold of your wife's phone records for the past couple of months would be a good idea. Generally speaking if it looks like a skunk and smells like a skunk, it's a skunk. And the fact she says she's not means nothing. He sees outstanding members of the church having affairs and lying about. So it looks like I turn into a PI. Anyone ever use of the GPS trackers I see advertised?

[Lester]

Inexperienced counselor's, phone records, PI's, GPS..., to what end? You already said you have no hope for your marriage. (#67)

 

Do you want to save your marriage?

It's either yes, or no.

 

If yes, you must change into a genuine, loving husband; which may move her back in your direction.

If no, all you need to do is file. Everything else is you going down, or being led down, a path you don't want to go.

[lostandhurt]

knight,

 

I went to see a therapist/counselor very early on and he told me pretty much the same thing. He didn't pull any punches and told me this doesn't look good, he was 100% correct...

 

Getting more facts can do no harm for sure. Like I said before most cheaters will not come clean until you catch them dead to rights with proof. If she is cheating and you bust her it could be a serious reality check for her and cause her fantasy to crash.

 

When I caught my wife she was very matter of fact about it and showed zero remorse and actually smirked a little when she spilled the beans. I was very calm and listened while she told me how it was fate that they met, he was her soul mate blah blah blah. All the cliché you hear. That lasted about a day or so and then reality set in and she broke down at work sobbing and all of a sudden wanted to talk about "US" In the end it was all BS to stall and keep seeing her soul mate who was a total loser by the way.

 

Knowing for sure helped me decide what I needed to do. At first she blamed me for everything, accused me of all kinds of stuff and I actually started to believe it. I was talking to my best friend about it all one day and he told me to stop doubting who I was and stop believing her crap and excuses or he was going to kick my ass! Once the shock of it all wore off I got my feet back under me and started doing what was best for me and my son. That included a gps tracker and dumping her phone to see if what she had promised was actually was what she was doing. Long story short it wasn't. In fact one day we were to meet a therapist in the afternoon but she left for his house right after I went to work and stayed there until she had to leave to meet at the appointment. That gps tracker gave me that information and it sealed the deal for me.

 

I will private message you the links.

 

I have been where you are and although I wasn't a perfect husband I was damn good and a great father to our disabled son. This isn't about you as much as it is about her so even if you became the perfect husband what is her motivation to stop what she is doing when she can have her cake and eat it too? Information cannot hurt at all in this case.

 

Try and keep your frustration at bay and vent here. I know how you feel all to well but keep your wits about you, always take the high road, never exaggerate any facts or use words like "always" and "never" and just worry about the things you CAN control right now.

 

Lost

[bwknight]

Thanks Lost. I'm actually in a pretty good place right now. The counselor I see is far from inexperienced. Well thought of nationally. I'm lucky that he goes to my church. He is really helping me see knowledge is power and nobody wants to be a chump. So yes I want to know and it's obvious she isn't coming clean anytime soon.

[bwknight]

So went online and got phone records. Amazing how easy it was. Only one number repeated a lot for texts and calls. Number belongs to a seemingly happily married staff member at our church. I have a close friend that also works at the church. Said he would be shocked to learn something was going on, but confirmed the number was indeed this guys personal cell. There's just no reason for the dozens and dozens of texts and calls. So now what Lost?

[lostandhurt]

knight,

 

Now what? You sit on that information and gather more. I know you want to be fair if you two divorce but you need all the leverage you can get to make sure you do not get screwed.

 

For your wife I would think the thought of her cheating coming out to your friends, family and church members would not be a very pleasant thing. This is her weak spot.

 

A few voice activated recorders placed in strategic places might be of some use. Check the times when they talk and figure out where she usually is at those times and that is where they need to be placed. The other device I sent you the link on also records all the information it shows if I am not mistaken.

 

Right now you are in evidence gathering mode and once you have more you can decide exactly what you want to do.

 

If she is fooling around with a married church member and you bust her but she wants to end the affair and work on the marriage will you be willing?

 

In your affair was it just sex or were their real emotions? What if she loves this guy?

 

Now if you are done and know you want to divorce you will need more leverage than you have but remember nearly all states are no fault divorce states and she could have sex with her bf on the court house steps and it wouldn't matter in the eyes of the law. BUT being shamed and labeled a cheater for all to see is a totally different animal. I am not saying you are going to go around telling anyone that will listen what she did and certainly don't openly threaten to do it but once she knows you have all the facts and proof her mind will easily go there for you.

 

Sit on it for now and collect more.

 

Take care of yourself and remember your children's love for you is true

 

Lost

[bwknight]

Good advice. Thanks Lost

[bwknight]

After doing some behind the scenes intel gathering it appears there's an explanation for the texts and calls that involves my wife's work and the guys side job. I won't go into details. So her phone records doesn't lead to a smoking gun. A lot of texts to numbers all over country because the social media rooms she's constantly in but nothing out of the ordinary phone call wise. So back to square one. Is she telling the truth about no other guy and I'm dealing with a walk-away wife? From what I've read that's not too hopeful either. Had a great suggestion from a friend today, ignore the out of her and turn the basement into a Mancave. Brilliant idea!

[lostandhurt]

Knight,

 

That is good news for sure. All to often we men look for a reason or a thing that can be fixed, something tangible we can put our hands/minds on. Unfortunately in cases like these there is no real reason you will be able to find and she probably doesn't have one either other than a feeling that she isn't happy or isn't fulfilled or things didn't turn out just like she had thought they would.

 

There have been so many men and a woman come through the Relationship with X thread that were really great guys, thoughtful, honest, loving and caring husbands and wives but for no apparent reason their spouse one day did what yours did. I have found it interesting that people like yourself and others find themselves here where the jerks, liars and terrible husbands never seem to ask the right questions or seek out help. It says something about you that you found this place.

 

Walk Away Spouse Syndrome is real. I have personally (In real life) witnessed it as it happened to 2 coworkers and of course to myself. Sometimes there is cheating but a lot of times there isn't.

 

The thing to remember is that you cannot drag her back to the marriage, she has to come of her own free will because she really sees the value in you, herself and the love you can share and have shared. I see them come back because it was the better option when the fantasy wore thin and you DO NOT WANT that.

 

The things I have been telling you about; taking good care of yourself, getting out with the kids, dressing nice and all that is part of doing the 180. Perhaps it is time to do an about face. It isn't about ignoring the s%#t out of her but it is close.

 

If you want to give this a try let me know.

 

Hang in there, it isn't over yet...

 

Lost

[bwknight]

I wouldn't say I'm totally ignoring her, but certainly ignoring the behaviors, button pushing, etc. Just not reacting. She actually said I love you to me yesterday. I was leaving and I kept walking like I either didn't hear it or chalked it up to old habit. Seriously thinking of turning basement into man cave this weekend, giving the appearance of I'm cool with this setup. Big screen, a little bar and there you go.

[lostandhurt]

How about you make it more of a game room so the kids can spend time down there with you. Hooking up the game console to the big screen would be cool.

 

 

 

Once it appears that you are actually doing better after her revelation and even are okay with the idea it can throw them off their path. I am thinking the I Love You thing was just what you thought it was, an old habit but don't discount it totally.

 

In all things you do think FAMILY. To many think of just themselves but when you think family when you plan a day or activity you would like to do it makes it look like your life will be just fine either way and family activities simply do not include her. Don't be surprised if she asks to go along or join in one day. You need to know how to respond when that happens.

 

Stay cool like you have been doing and don't react. If she makes a statement or asks a question say something like: "Thanks for letting me know, I will give that some thought" or "Let me think that over and see how I feel about it" or "At my next counseling session I will be sure to bring that up"

 

In the beginning she was the one that decided what was happening and when you use phrases like these it shows her that you are now deciding what will happen in YOUR life and you are not simply waiting around for her to decide if she loves you, if she is still in love with you and if she wants to stay committed to the marriage.

 

It is a roller coaster ride at times with glimpses of the woman you knew and loved and then they disappear into the fog again. Be patient and strong.

 

Lost

[bwknight]

A new wrinkle and I'll try to be discreet here. Last night she came home late and I was in bed. A few minutes later she come in wearing a short shirt and says I think we need to f$&k. Well it's been a couple of months so I said okay. Well after 20 years I know my wife pretty well down there and I wanted to give her the full treatment (read between the lines here). Anyway I don't think I was the only one to enjoy her last night. If that's the case why did she want sex with me and do I say something about my suspicions or let it go for now?