Separation/Divorce after 20 Years

[thealchemist]

It's that respecting yourself that's creating an issue at the moment. I don't feel what I've done over our marriage is appreciated by her and her disrespect for me at the moment leaves me asking why am I allowing this, because of a chance she comes to her senses, because I don't want our kids to be victims of divorce. I should just say enough is enough, see an attorney and file myself. Isn't that what a guy that respects himself would do?

What do you want to do?

 

If my wife told me I was going to be sleeping in the basement I would tell her she can sleep wherever she wants but I am sleeping in our bed.

 

Respect is not really an external thing, it is internal. There is no way she is going to respect you when she pushes you around like that and you take it.

 

Don't expect respect from her. Do what you know you should and be d@mned with her responses.

 

If she wants to have a serious discussion and work on something meet her as an adult, don't let treat you like a child or be disrespectful. If she is just go back to doing what you need to.

 

I honestly understand, it really isn't fair that you are the one having to do this. It sucks. Do you think you can have a good relationship if you work through this? Is it worth it to you?

 

I don't know the best it has been between you two but if you can win her over and both be in this totally it could be a a lot better. Only you can answer "Is it worth it?".

[waffle]

Him approaching her at this point looks like groveling, no matter how it's presented. She has to make the first move since she was the one that wanted the "separation" to begin with. The burden is on her to make the effort--the effort to initiate discussion and the effort to take steps to make things right.

[bwknight]

Yes, what I do is listen carefully to her complaints (some have been valid). Based on that if changes need to be changed I make them. Meaning I concern myself with making improvements. But not groveling. But in the end she initiated separation and she will need to initiate reconciliation. Then it's up to me if I'm still interested. That's the risk she's running at this point.

[ThatwasThen]

Yes, what I do is listen carefully to her complaints (some have been valid). Based on that if changes need to be changed I make them. Meaning I concern myself with making improvements. But not groveling. But in the end she initiated separation and she will need to initiate reconciliation. Then it's up to me if I'm still interested. That's the risk she's running at this point.

 

As long as you're still living together and paying the bills, she has no risk.

[bwknight]

Let's be real. Even if we weren't living together I would be paying the bill. My friend in a very similar position is paying 4600 a month in spousal and child support. So I'm paying one way or another. At least this way I'm with my kids every day.

[ThatwasThen]

Let's be real. Even if we weren't living together I would be paying the bill. My friend in a very similar position is paying 4600 a month in spousal and child support. So I'm paying one way or another. At least this way I'm with my kids every day.

You miss the point.

[Jeffbobo]

Yes, what I do is listen carefully to her complaints (some have been valid). Based on that if changes need to be changed I make them. Meaning I concern myself with making improvements. But not groveling. But in the end she initiated separation and she will need to initiate reconciliation. Then it's up to me if I'm still interested. That's the risk she's running at this point.

 

If these are complaints that have gone unanswered for a long period of time, then changes could be a matter of too little too late which could be the case now as she asked for separation.

 

Also, to put it bluntly, in the current situation, she really has nothing to lose. I mean, she knows she has you as an option. And you show her that by letting her plow through boundaries and disrespect you.

[Jeffbobo]

Let's be real. Even if we weren't living together I would be paying the bill. My friend in a very similar position is paying 4600 a month in spousal and child support. So I'm paying one way or another. At least this way I'm with my kids every day.

 

Hopefully your friend agreed to temporary/rehabilitative spousal support until she can support herself.

 

Personally I'd rather keep my dignity, live seperately, pay spousal temporarily and not have to deal with her. I'm either 100% in or 100% out. The latter closes the door and gets me quicker to moving on with my life.

[bwknight]

There is no temporary. I've already checked into that. Based on our 20 years and her income, etc. I'm looking at 7 years. As far as keeping dignity and respect I feel I am. My actions are all I control. She will deal with the consequences of her actions. We'll see where that takes us. Most decisions made quickly and emotionally don't end well. The emotional part of this is running its course with me and I think things will become much clearer in the next couple of weeks. If not, it will be time to reassess. I have gotten some good advice here and appreciate the comments.

[Jeffbobo]

There's not a hard fast rule that says, "Take the number of years you were married and divide by three to determine spousal maintenance". That may be the old school way but the progressive way that I've seen is that you pay for an amount of time to get your ex-spouse training/education so that they can get on their feet to support themselves. Maybe that's additional training/education for a degree they've not used in a long time or in a new field. Agreeing to 2-4 years rehabilitative is temporary. I've seen this implemted and work in a number of situations. As far as assets, you split those.

[lostandhurt]

knight,

 

Did you take the kids out for the day?

 

4 or 7 years of spousal support IS temporary! I know 2 men that got stuck with lifetime spousal support. Yes that is a thing in some states.

 

You haven't clearly stated what you want to do. Just riding this thing out until SHE decides what happens to your life is not a good plan.

 

Did you tell her she has had the bedroom long enough and it is your turn now?

 

What is your plan? What do you want to do? Did you talk to a lawyer?

 

Lost

[bwknight]

Yes took kids to church and movies. Have appt. with attorney Wednesday. Was advised to do nothing until we talk. Alternating bedroom as part of kid day plan (our room is across from kids room). So person not having kids has lots of space downstairs. Financially we could do two households if we agreed on how we split income (versus allowing the court to do it). My plan is to have all that figured out before talking definite split. Want to have all that settled in the next couple of weeks. There's no reason to believe that some miracle is going to happen and I don't see much reason to allow her the comfort of not moving forward.

[Lester]

Don't make petty decisions or demands.

Genuine husbands are not vengeful and don't need shallow victories.

 

She may choose not to be a wife.

Genuine husbands can't change back into a single men, ever. (How's that for a head scratcher!)

 

Once you understand the depth of her emotions and her much slower decision process, you'll know how dangerous/fruitless forcing her to act like a man.

[Lester]

"My plan..."

- If you feel you must plan; plan for very unpleasant surprises.

 

At this stage, it's advisable to "move forward", just as long as about you and only you.

Silly thoughts of court outcomes or forcing her will backfire on you! (And make for interesting talk with the UM)

[bwknight]

I'm not trying to force her will. It's quite obvious right now she doesn't even know what that is. She's all over the place from one day to the next. But there are a couple constant things that lead me to believe it's best for the marriage to be over. I'm not being vengeful at all. I want to be fair to her as well as me. Advice here ranges from act now to take your time. We're going on 2 months and not much has changed. She seems a little more sad but she's clearly not happy and that's impacting everyone in the family. Do I think a divorce will be the magic pill for her, no, but I believe she does.

[Lester]

You don't sound very hopeful.

[bwknight]

For our marriage no. That we can all get through this not totally broken, I am.

[lostandhurt]

A few comments:

 

Your plan so far sounds solid. Let her think you are willing to go along with this for as long as it takes.

 

There is no rush so take your time. This is good advice for only a certain window or opportunity. If she is all over the place and her freedom and some other guy is all she wants she will ignore the details and that will help you long term.

 

See the big picture and long term. I have known far to many that just wanted it over so they gave away the farm and when they began to get their feet back under them they regretted it.

 

When you speak to the lawyer as about mediation. It will save you thousands and allow the two of you to work things out. If it doesn't work you can always go to the adversarial route.

 

Stop thinking about her and how this is not going to work out for her like she thinks it will and focus on you, your life and your kids. I read where you mentioned not many men will want a woman with young children. There are tons of men out there preying on women just like your wife with all kinds of promises and lies just to get them into bed. There are 20 something's messaging 40 yr old women all the time on online dating sites to have the MILF experience. Trust me she will have attention but it will take her a while to figure out she is being used.

 

Don't get caught up in possessions, it is just stuff and much of it you could do without anyways. The house will more than likely be sold (the market is good right now in most places) and the equity split evenly. If you want to keep it then you will need to get a totally new loan and buy her half of the equity.

 

The changes you mentioned (tanning, working out, nails and new clothes) are all classis signs. The fact that she suddenly stopped all that means little. Always think of this as a dysfunctional type of situation where trying to make sense of nonsense will drive you crazy. Remember it only needs to make sense to her at that very moment.

 

 

I know things don't look good but I also know there is a glimmer of hope inside you that she will snap out of this. I hope it happens too, truly I do but the pattern so far is not making me hopeful. That doesn't mean you should give up all hope but keep planning for the worst and hope for the best.

 

Lost

[bwknight]

Thanks Lost. You have provided good advice throughout your posts. I do appreciate it.

[waffle]

There are 20 something's messaging 40 yr old women all the time on online dating sites to have the MILF experience.

I can tell you from personal experience this is absolutely true.

 

She will have (or is having) more attention on the dating sites than you can even fathom. Just speculation, but it sounds as if whatever she had going with . . . whoever . . . didn't pan out. This is usually the point where they resign themselves to staying married.

 

Alimony/spousal support is not an exact science and if it comes to divorce, you would do well to put a couple of clauses in there i.e. spousal support ends when she remarries. That's pretty standard as I understand it (it's written in my divorce decree and I think that's fair).

 

Good luck to you, sir.

[bwknight]

Well if I find that to be true I won't be the back up plan. That's a deal breaker.

[Lester]

"Well if I find that to be true..."

- Unless you took concrete action steps to counter the parasite(s) pull on your wife..., it's already true. (Most likely someone you met or know)

 

Up to seven years ago, waiting months may have had a value. Today, you only get days/weeks to save your wife, and kids.

 

The stakes are going to start rising. The creeps are headed for the rest of your family and home.

You can't split a large family open with a hammer and not expect to have pieces laying everywhere.

 

Sorry!

[lostandhurt]

Knight,

 

I know this man that his wife walked away from a great home, 2 wonderful kids and a honest hard working and loving husband. There was no real reason other than the one she had in her mind. He begged, he got mad and he begged some more for answers and to try and work things out. The problem is there was nothing tangible to work out. In the end she left and he was crushed. She went on to live her fantasy life (with some other guy) but eventually her fantasy ended.

 

She came back and he gladly took her back thinking things would be good again. Guess what? They weren't because all he did was teach her that she could use him and the house and family as a home base until a new fantasy came along. She treats him like he is a wussy waiting on scraps of affection and happiness. He is miserable and now is waiting until both of his kids graduate high school so he can divorce her for good. He has said living alone the rest of his life would be preferable to what he lives daily.

 

My point is that just staying married is not enough. This guy stayed married but it was not a marriage, it was a legal document with no love, respect, trust or companionship.

 

Right now it sounds like you are willing to divorce her if she does not come back to the table and truly admit what is going on with her, what she has been up to and with who so you can decide IF you even want to try and rebuild the marriage.

 

Does that sound about right?

 

Lost

[bwknight]

Pretty much. She has started to open more, a lot this morning. Some things about what she's not feeling good about herself (career stuff, weight, appearance, etc.) and things that have been festering for a long time about me (honestly some are valid). She's still adamant she hasn't and isn't having an affair. So maybe there's been no physical thing going on but there's something (maybe emotional or flirting) going on with her constant texting and protective of her phone. But she needs to come to the table and be honest about everything. If not divorce is an option. There are things that needed changed before this recent thing, so there has to be a willingness to take this opportunity to put the marriage on solid ground. Meaning we go back to the way it was for convenience sake.

[Lester]

"...and things that have been festering for a long time about me (honestly some are valid)."

- Such as?