Separation/Divorce after 20 Years

[thealchemist]

Phone goes everywhere with her. Locks door when in shower. I'm not suppose to see her naked anymore. I have seen enough to recognize it's a chat room with many people but she admits some are men. Have a friend that says he went through exact same thing when his wife was in early stages of menopause. They survived but he says the feelings she had we're very real. My wife has always had severe PMS. Something to think about I guess.

I don't know the last time you did have sex but if it was recently I would get tested. That behavior looks really really bad.

 

Only a 12 year age gap, but it sounds a lot like what happened with a co-worker. He found out when he got a +herpes diagnosis. Like a 90% overlap of stuff between yours and his, from what you have said on post. She gave him it before she even knew he had it. They had had sex twice in a couple years but that was enough for him to get infected.

[bwknight]

How horrible for him. Been 6 weeks. Not a bad idea though

[lostandhurt]

knight,

 

Let's assume that at the very least she is having an emotional affair.

 

You mentioned that she talked to a counselor at your church I believe and now she has dropped the bomb on you. I will wager a lot of money that counselor didn't hear the truth about you or your life together or your marriage. The first thing that happens in cases like these is the rewrite of history. They do it as a defense mechanism so they do not look like a terrible person for walking away from what appears to be a wonderful marriage, life and husband. If she paints you and your life together as awful who could blame her for wanting out right? Ignore everything she says when she is rewriting history. Don't argue, don't try and set her straight and don't get frustrated. Simply tell her "Is that so, you seem to have an interesting memory" then drop it and walk away.

 

There is more to this than she even understands and many times it appears dysfunctional and may even be but you cannot fix her so don't try. There is no fix and please do not mention menopause or peri pre menopause as she will likely freak out on you and there will be a huge fight.

 

By now you have figured out that flowers, showering her with attention and love, keeping the house super clean, taking care of the kids and kissing her butt will not undo what is going on. In fact as Lester has mentioned it makes things worse. You will look like a sniffling little man instead of a strong confident person. Once it begins to look like you could care less if she leaves she will not notice anything.

 

Right now she has a nice bedroom all to herself, you are probably walking on eggshells around her and to her her life really hasn't changed much except for the excitement of talking to her man while you continue to provide a safe place to operate from.

 

Do you want to try and save your marriage?

 

If so give what Lester suggests a try. I have seen so many of these on here and in real life it is like watching the same play over and over again but with different cast members each time. The play always ends the same though...

 

What do you want to do? Give it a good try to save the marriage or work on protecting yourself or possibly both? If you want to give saving it a try you have to be prepared to play hardball and say and do things that are counter intuitive to your actual goal.

 

So what do you want to do?

 

Lost

[bwknight]

At this time both Lost. I have already discovered that trying harder or paying more attention to her doesn't work. And noticed she tries pushes some buttons to get a reaction, such as saying "I might date while we're separated". I'm doing my best to back off. When we dated the more I pulled away the more she acted interested.

[Jeffbobo]

I wanted to bring up a few other points as you go through this.

 

1. Do not feed her ego with the things she says or does - For the two surreal months that my ex-wife and I lived together before finding somewhere else for her to live, she attempted to rub things in my face to get a reaction out of me to feed her ego. She'd tell me about guys hitting on her (admittedly, she's quite the head turner) and talked about really off the wall things. This crap went on even after she moved out. She'd still come over to the house and still let me have it with this crap. So I told her she wasn't allowed to come over anymore. We'd talk on the phone, rather she'd talk, turn up her volume and then hang up without me even saying anything. So I killed phone calls. We moved to strictly text until 2 years AFTER our divorce I ended texting after she sent me a photo of her and some guy together and proceeded on letting me have it through text. So now we just do e-mail, which is what I should have done in the first place.

 

A few points with this. First, she's getting a lot of attention from other guys or perhaps one guy in particular. Don't feed into and it be like every other guy. She knows you want her, don't feed into it. Second is no contact. As you see from what I mentioned above, it took me two years to go to straight email. And that's two years she kept me engaged with her BS which slowed my healing process. Third point is to only discuss business. That's the business of the details on divorce and raising your kids. Ignore or don't discuss anything more.

 

2. The kids - Don't talk negatively about the kids mother to the kids. At all. Period. Though you may be hurt and angry, they are not there for you to vent to. Keep your integrity intact and take the high road on any discussions about their mom with them. Your kids are old enough to where they can understand and will form their own opinions on things. Always be there for your kids, physically and emotionally.

 

3. Live - Start doing things as if you were a single parent. I'm not talking about dating or anything like that but rather, things that you thought you couldn't do because you were married. Things that you use to do before you were married. More quality time with your kids. Take care of your responsibilities but otherwise live a carefree life. Take care of yourself inside and out.

[Jeffbobo]

At this time both Lost. I have already discovered that trying harder or paying more attention to her doesn't work. And noticed she tries pushes some buttons to get a reaction, such as saying "I might date while we're separated"

.

 

My reaction would have been, "I'm an honorable man. Why just separate? So let's get this done". For the most part, don't feed into comments like this.

 

I'm doing my best to back off. When we dated the more I pulled away the more she acted interested.

 

People want what they thank they can't have. Give them a taste and pull away, they want more. It's funny how this works, this push pull game.

[bwknight]

Isn't that the rub, it becomes a game. Quite frankly I've never had the patience for playing games. I'm a just tell me what's wrong guy. No bs, just be truthful. That can be dealt with in a much cleaner way. She was married before at 18 and then right into a relationship with me. It's like she's a hormonal teenager, one moment rational, the next looney tunes.

[Lester]

They're not games, they're gamesmanship.

 

Example:

She will never tell you she married the wrong guy. That would make her look stupid, and difficult to explain away the twenty years.

Instead, she will say 'you've/he changed..., were different people'.

 

Read between the lines translation:

Unlike you, Mr. fix/get money/do stuff guy, the guy I'm secretly seeing is smart and exciting. (Just like me!)

 

Your response should be something like this:

I've been thinking same thing for quite some time now. Then go quiet.

[lostandhurt]

knight,

 

The more you post the more this looks all to familiar to me and many others on here. I would bet that you thought you were the only one that had a spouse just want to up and walk away from what seems to be a pretty good marriage. Well unfortunately you have all kinds of company.

 

You are very correct that it would be easier if she just told you what was wrong so you could do the guy thing and FIX IT. The problem is there is nothing seriously wrong. Maybe she got bored or was feeling less than desirable and some guy showed her attention, maybe her dreams were never fulfilled (not your job to do btw) or maybe she has a few divorced friends that are filling her head with stories of the single life and how great it is. In the end it doesn't matter what her reasons are, all that matters is that she pulled the trigger on this and you need to respond in a way that at the very least saves you and your children.

 

Go back through the thread I sent you and read some of the stories from over the years. You will see a theme emerge and it will help you understand that this isn't all that uncommon and many times these things follow a very similar path.

 

I was like you once and wanted with all my heart to fix it or do what ever it took to save my family. It was a fools errand and I am so happy she didn't agree to stay.

 

Here is a quote from my ex one evening when we were discussing staying together and working on it. "Okay I will stay but I want to do my own thing" Which translated into spending her free time with and keep banging her bf. I just asked her if she was sick in the head.

 

You have found yourself on a ride that no one wants to be on so hold on tight and listen carefully to the people that have been there. Once she sees that things aren't going to go all her way it will get nasty at times. Don't react and always take the high road.

 

Keep posting it helps a lot.

 

Lost

[thealchemist]

Isn't that the rub, it becomes a game. Quite frankly I've never had the patience for playing games. I'm a just tell me what's wrong guy. No bs, just be truthful. That can be dealt with in a much cleaner way. She was married before at 18 and then right into a relationship with me. It's like she's a hormonal teenager, one moment rational, the next looney tunes.

Lester is someone who has a lot of experience posting help for people in your boat.

 

We actually read this scenario play out a lot. Just vent here. Try and not let your kids in on any negative stuff. Especially your oldest, who is probably not blind and empathizes with you.

 

The oldest might very well try to show their support of you by trying to take you side. I wouldn't condone it but I also wouldn't rebuke them for their support of you.

[bwknight]

Tonight met a friend for drinks, came home basically ignored her and sat down to watch game. Suddenly she's walking around with short nighty nothing else, showing her ass. This always gets my attention and she knows it. Completely ignored it and she went to bed. Normally she would be on the phone right now. Small win but felt good

[Jeffbobo]

Tonight met a friend for drinks, came home basically ignored her and sat down to watch game. Suddenly she's walking around with short nighty nothing else, showing her ass. This always gets my attention and she knows it. Completely ignored it and she went to bed. Normally she would be on the phone right now. Small win but felt good

 

Nice. I've been there, done that. She may up the ante with more along these lines; new sexy cloths, makeup, getting herself together, working out, etc. Been there too. She may up the ante even more than that verbally (in an accusatory, blame-full and confrontational way) telling you that you neglected her, didn't pay enough attention to her, etc. Been there too. Now unless she has a genuine and sincere conversation with you; a real heart to heart, I'd ignore it all.

[bwknight]

She's done all that. According to her she's been a doormat. Anyone that knows her would laugh at that statement. Yes, I'm ignoring it.

[Lester]

The roots of marriage failure fall into three broad groups.

1. Incompatible, trapped, forced and other impossible unions.

2. Neglect and/or no knowledge by one/both spouses of what the word "us" means. (Genuine marriage)

3. Abusive, and/or bad outside influences such as drugs, bars etc.

 

Most of what we've been telling you is to help slow/stop the run away train.

While you may be starting to have some success with that*, that by itself won't change the above root cause.

 

To do that, you must understand women/wives, and more importantly, what genuine marriage is.

To help with that, purchase Gary Samlley's "If only he knew".

 

* Her flaunting, just like most of her words/actions WILL have veiled or hidden messages.

You must learn to read between the lines.

 

She could be taking a second look at you, or she could be throwing it in your face.

Don't forget, she's in a very empowering place, but still uncertain, and being used.

 

Helpful hint:

You're here to save your marriage. (Or at least, I think so.)

But what you may not know, you're here to save her! (Genuine love)

 

------

Flaunt 1. to parade or display oneself conspicuously, defiantly, or boldly. [Dictionary.com]

[bwknight]

She suddenly starting talking about some things she feels is contributing to her feelings this morning. First time I've heard things that weren't my fault. I listened and thanked her for sharing. She hugged me and I'm detecting some sadness. Maybe finding grass isn't greener. I stayed away from any talk of us and left for work.

[lostandhurt]

Knight,

 

You are doing great! Keep it up.

 

When a wife does things like this there are many that automatically blame the husband and assume he must have been taking her for granted, stayed out all the time, left her home with the kids while he was out having fun with his buddies, treated her poorly and on and on.

 

From what I have seen on this forum in the last 9 years is that generally the men or women that come here finding themselves in similar circumstances as you were not like that. John, Benga, Jeff, Nick, Myself and many others were all pretty darn good husbands but a very similar thing happened to us. Could we have been better husbands? Absolutely! Would that have stopped what they did? No it wouldn't have because this is an internal struggle for them. What triggers it could be many things and I can only speak for myself that it was my wife's lack of happiness. I spent 20 years trying to make her happy but I didn't learn till later that it wasn't my job to MAKE her happy as happiness comes from inside. When people feel like there is something missing or their life is unhappy some look inward and some look outward. The ones that look outward look for something other than themselves to blame. In my case my wife couldn't blame our style of living, our son or anything else so it had to be my fault she was unhappy so she started looking for something or someone else to MAKE her happy.

 

I tell you this so you can see that it isn't some disease or something that makes them snap, it can happen over years unknown to you and even them. I have seen spouse's turn to alcohol, drugs, gambling, shopping and other destructive things when they feel this way but sometimes they turn to someone else which is much harder to get them back from. Remember when you first met and it was all exciting and new and you put off parts of your life to spend time with her? This may be what you are up against.

 

You got her attention by doing the opposite of what she expected. Be sure to still be the man you are deep down but step up the other stuff. Work out harder, go buy yourself a new shirt (this seems minor but it is a big deal to her), stay well dressed even around the house but I don't mean wear dress clothes just don't wear those shabby shorts and torn t shirt.

 

Take the kids to the park this weekend or out to a local lake and pack a lunch but don't invite her. Tell her you are taking the kids so you can have some one on one time with them. This lets you bond with them, have a nice day together and lets them know you are with them no matter what. Don't discuss your wife at all though. She may ask to go with you (I doubt it but she might) so just tell her that it would be good for you to spend time away from her and enjoy time with the kids and besides she wanted some space so this works out perfect. You might think she will just use the time to talk to her friend(s) but it will not be the same without the sneaking around part.

 

In the end this comes down to her changing her mind and wanting to come back to the table and rebuild trust and the marriage. The crumbs she has thrown out were not picked up by you so she is doubting her hold on you. Stay strong and don't fall for them.

The worst thing you can do is take the bait to soon. It took a while for this to get where it is and it will take some time to get back to a place where a real discussion can be had with honesty and respect and a shared goal. You are pretty far away from that at the moment.

 

Make a plan and stick with it no matter what she does. The dysfunctional way she is thinking will be like a roller coaster ride where just when you think it is smoothing out you drop off a cliff and start free falling only to hit a level spot for a while and then start climbing again with each click of the chain unnerving you because you don't know when it will drop out from under you again. The trick is to see that no matter what happens either way your life and your children's lives will not end, they will be different but they will not end. Having this in your heart and mind will allow you to level out the ride and be rock steady.

 

Keep up the good work and if you stumble and make a mistake don't worry about it, this is something no one wants to be experienced at...

 

Lost

[bwknight]

Our marriage has been a roller coaster ride (maybe most are we just don't see it). I'm determined to stop that and not let this season (no matter how it turns out) to continue that history. Thanks for the great idea for the weekend. Think I'll take the kids to a movie and make a day of it.

[thealchemist]

Our marriage has been a roller coaster ride (maybe most are we just don't see it). I'm determined to stop that and not let this season (no matter how it turns out) to continue that history. Thanks for the great idea for the weekend. Think I'll take the kids to a movie and make a day of it.

You sound like you are doing evwrything you should. Keep up the great work, even though it is tough.

 

Make sure to take some extra time for your kids, but it sounds like you are anyways.

[bwknight]

Tonight I got the I'm going out with a girlfriend. Basically told none of my business where so don't bother asking. Okay, have fun.

[Jeffbobo]

In a normal relationship, it should be encouraged and be completely normal for your significant other to go out with friends. In a normal, trusting relationship, that's healthy. I know under the current circumstances, your mind is racing with thoughts of what she could be doing. BUT just treat it as something that's normal and don't let it get to you. Don't be surprised if she feeds you a line of, "You're controlling and never let me go out with my friends". Assure her that in your marriage, she's always had the freedom to go and do anything she wanted within your trusting relationship. Also assure her that once that trust has been broken, it's done. Make sure to set borders in your relationship that can't be crossed and stick to them. If you don't, she will push the limits on how far she can cross those borders. Once crossed, you may set new borders which she will attempt to cross as well and through this process, she will lose respect for you. Remember that a good guy respects others but more importantly, respects himself.

[bwknight]

It's that respecting yourself that's creating an issue at the moment. I don't feel what I've done over our marriage is appreciated by her and her disrespect for me at the moment leaves me asking why am I allowing this, because of a chance she comes to her senses, because I don't want our kids to be victims of divorce. I should just say enough is enough, see an attorney and file myself. Isn't that what a guy that respects himself would do?

[Lester]

"Isn't that what a guy that respects himself would do?"

- That's what a guy may do, married men are not guys.

 

You don't have to do anything, you have to do something.

 

Be a husband.

[waffle]

If you're in the basement right now and paying the bills, you're a chump and that's the single biggest thing you did to make sure she has nothing resembling respect for you. Much less respect for yourself.

 

5 weeks ago my wife informed me she had been seeing a counselor that goes to our church and she wanted to separate. I am 60, she is 45. We have 4 kids 7-18. She laid out plan for us to stay in house together with me sleeping in downstairs guest room. We alternate days taking care of kids. I don't want a divorce but she suddenly seems to not care. She stopped going to church, works late and weekends and is constantly on her phone in some chat room and never leaves her phone unattended. She says she isn't ruling out us staying together but thinks the romance and passion is gone from our marriage. We always talked about divorce as not an option because of our kids. Something changed. The obvious of course is she's met someone but she has strongly denied it. I'm basically the breadwinner, she works but makes very little. Just wondering if anyone has gone through anything similar. Some days she talks in terms of future things together but then she slams the wall back up. Help please.

You are definitely her back-up plan in case nothing pans out with these other guys (I use plural because I'm certain there is more than one in the pipeline and she will go with the highest bidder). If none of them will make the jump with her, you will end up with her by default. Which will further cause her to lose more respect for you. Is this the marriage you want? Her settling for you because she found out she couldn't do any better?

[bwknight]

The biggest thing she has working against her is sure there can be some short term fun but she/we have two kids under 9. Most middle age men aren't looking to take that on. Meanwhile she is adamant that she's seeing nobody else. Do she's either lying or she's going through some mid life thing.

[bwknight]

So over the last 7-10 days. Stopped working late and weekends, stopped working out, stopped tanning and having nails done. All these had been recent additions. There's a sadness to her as well. And now know for a fact she was out with a female friend last night.