Put Me in a Bad Mood

[Careerchoice]

So I've been chatting with this girl that I met online and she asked me what I'll be doing this weekend. I mentioned that I'll be going to a gay club (I'm straight), and she had some judgmental statement about it. I'm a big supporter of the community and it put me in such a bad mood. I stuck up for them of course, and I had a decently witty response, but I don't want this affecting me for the rest of the day. I hate that my city is a bit on the conservative side politically.

[Titanll]

Move. No one has to support or be positive about things that you are.

 

Why does the gay community need support? Could be that if folks shut the up about their sexuality, no one would really give a regardless of whether you are homo or hetero...

[j.man]

So I've been chatting with this girl that I met online and she asked me what I'll be doing this weekend. I mentioned that I'll be going to a gay club (I'm straight), and she had some judgmental statement about it. I'm a big supporter of the community and it put me in such a bad mood. I stuck up for them of course, and I had a decently witty response, but I don't want this affecting me for the rest of the day. I hate that my city is a bit on the conservative side politically.

I mean what did she say that was so offensive? I'm a pretty liberal dude, all the LBGT equality jazz included, but if you're taking grave personal offense to what's essentially someone else's cause to own, even giving you the benefit of empathy, that's a bit much.

 

Red flag for me, and trying to avoid getting too political here, is you having "stuck up for them." I'll tell you one thing I don't do anymore, and it's stick up for people. Don't get me wrong... I'll support someone. I'll stand by someone. But I don't fight in place of someone. Not because I don't care or don't want to, but because ultimately, I'm not the one who's ultimately going to live with the consequences of a potentially more negative or more deeply entrenched prejudice against an individual or their community as a result of my taking it upon myself to stand in. And if the emergent political atmosphere hasn't tipped some of us off yet, it turns out the more abrasive and adversarial approach didn't get us too far. That speaks more generally than perhaps to your date, but food for thought.

[Careerchoice]

Move.

 

Yes, that's a great idea. I'm going to pack up a suitcase, move to some city where I don't know anyone, and start my life over. As an alternative, maybe you conservatives could move?

 

No one has to support or be positive about things that you are.

 

When did I say they do?

 

Why does the gay community need support?

 

Because they are oppressed? But conservative straight white males wouldn't know anything about that, unless you feel that they are the ones who are oppressed.

 

Could be that if folks shut the up about their sexuality, no one would really give a regardless of whether you are homo or hetero...

 

Why should they shut up? You felt free to speak your mind on this thread. You can't be a hypocrite. Either people are freely able to speak their mind or not.

[MissCanuck]

Just take it as a sign that she's not the right person for you. I can understand being irritated or offended by her remark, depending on what she said, but try not to let it ruin your day. That indicates you're giving too much value to what some stranger online says.

[Careerchoice]

I mean what did she say that was so offensive? I'm a pretty liberal dude, all the LBGT equality jazz included, but if you're taking grave personal offense to what's essentially someone else's cause to own, even giving you the benefit of empathy, that's a bit much.

 

Red flag for me, and trying to avoid getting too political here, is you having "stuck up for them." I'll tell you one thing I don't do anymore, and it's stick up for people. Don't get me wrong... I'll support someone. I'll stand by someone. But I don't fight in place of someone. Not because I don't care or don't want to, but because ultimately, I'm not the one who's ultimately going to live with the consequences of a potentially more negative or more deeply entrenched prejudice against an individual or their community as a result of my taking it upon myself to stand in. And if the emergent political atmosphere hasn't tipped some of us off yet, it turns out the more abrasive and adversarial approach didn't get us too far. That speaks more generally than perhaps to your date, but food for thought.

 

No, your position is too selfish for my taste. I only stood in solidarity with gays in this instance, but I would definitely stand in and fight for someone who is helpless to help themselves. I would want them to do the same for me. Whether or not there would be any personal consequences is irrelevant. This climate of apathy on the left keeps swinging the pendulum to the right.

[j.man]

No, your position is too selfish for my taste. I only stood in solidarity with gays in this instance, but I would definitely stand in and fight for someone who is helpless to help themselves. I would want them to do the same for me. Whether or not there would be any personal consequences is irrelevant. This climate of apathy on the left keeps swinging the pendulum to the right.

"Helpless to defend themselves?" They're grown adults, not Michael Vick's newest litter of puppies.

 

Don't take it upon yourself to champion other people's causes. It's the same appropriation that's commonly criticized. Don't engage in completely ineffective tactics that could in fact close someone off even more before someone else with a much better method of communicating for the purpose of actual change ever got their chance, in essence making you a detriment to the community or cause you claim to support.

 

Who did you stand up for? The literally zero gay people who had any idea she made a comment or were in any way affected by her having just made it? Who do you know that thinks it's a good idea to raise a stink because "Stephanie - 31 (12 miles away)" doesn't like gay clubs? You had a case of moral blue balls and used this as a prime opportunity to blow your load.

 

Sorry to go off on the tangent. The widespread vanity and infantilization masquerading as selflessness bugs me.

[LaHermes]

Isn't life tough, Career!

 

" I hate that my city is a bit on the conservative side politically."

 

Wouldn't it be lovely if EVERYTHING was just the way we would want it, right, left and centre.

 

You ever heard of the "reality gap" OP? Simply put it means that the well-adjusted are able to bridge that gap between the way they want the world and the way the world really is.

[Careerchoice]

"Helpless to defend themselves?" They're grown adults, not Michael Vick's newest litter of puppies.

 

Not all are grown adults, and even if they were, they're significantly outnumbered by individuals seeking to limit their rights and harm them in more extreme ways. It's hard for SWMs to understand that since they are never in the minority.

 

Don't take it upon yourself to champion other people's causes. It's the same appropriation that's commonly criticized. Don't engage in completely ineffective tactics that could in fact close someone off even more before someone else with a much better method of communicating for the purpose of actual change ever got their chance, in essence making you a detriment to the community or cause you claim to support.

 

I will champion other people's causes. You are free not to, but I find it strange that you would discourage it when you have no dog in the fight. We are going to disagree on what tactics are effective and ineffective. I believe remaining silent is not effective.

 

Who did you stand up for? The literally zero gay people who had any idea she made a comment or were in any way affected by her having just made it?

 

I stood up for gay people. Just because it went unheard by any gays doesn't mean it can't have some tangible effect. Thoughts and words manifest as actions. Thinking otherwise is shortsighted and naive.

 

Who do you know that thinks it's a good idea to raise a stink because "Stephanie - 31 (12 miles away)" doesn't like gay clubs?

 

I bet ever single gay individual who found out what I did would appreciate it. Just like a black person would appreciate me sticking up for them, etc.

 

You had a case of moral blue balls and used this as a prime opportunity to blow your load.

 

I don't understand this statement.

 

Sorry to go off on the tangent. The widespread vanity and infantilization masquerading as selflessness bugs me.

 

I'm not saying I'm better than anybody for sticking up for someone. And they are not little kids that need to be coddled, but they can't make it on their own, and they shouldn't have to anyway. And I'm not masquerading anything. I was genuinely offended for a community I care about. Otherwise this thread wouldn't exist. I can offer no more proof than my words.

[Careerchoice]

You ever heard of the "reality gap" OP? Simply put it means that the well-adjusted are able to bridge that gap between the way they want the world and the way the world really is.

 

I do accept the way the world is. I know I'm not going to be able to change anything about it. I'm allowed to be offended by it and complain on an anonymous internet forum as a way to cope. What's so strange about that?

[LaHermes]

Complain all you like, Career. And all of us are allowed to be offended by something or someone, doesn't matter where the (perceived) offending or offence is coming from, black,brown, gay, LGBT, white, off-white.

 

However, please do say at the outset that you are here with us as a way to cope with the perceived or real unfairness of the world.

 

You stood up for gay people because in the course of a phone conversation someone made a disparaging remark. You were entitled to so do.

[Ms Darcy]

Why does the gay community need support? Could be that if folks shut the up about their sexuality, no one would really give a regardless of whether you are homo or hetero...

 

As an example, gay couples walking down the street are more likely to be attacked than straight couples.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with his perspective. I do think he's not compatible with the girl.

[Krankor]

What did she say? If it was along the lines of "But you're straight, why would you be interested in a gay club?" I don't think that's so terrible. Seems more like an honest question. If it was "Gay people are an abomination, make me sick, and should all be put to death" then yeah, I would probably verbally disagree if someone I were dating (or anyone else) made such a comment.

 

I lean left. I'm a union member who believes income inequality is a huge problem and I supported gay marriage even back when most Americans were voting against it on the ballots. But I can see why so many people roll their eyes at SJWs. Not saying you are one.

[LaHermes]

No Indeed. There is nothing wrong with stating one's views in support of one group or another. Nothing wrong either with disagreement with those views.

 

Yes, gay couples do get attacked more frequently, but we have to look at from what quarter such attackers emerge, usually. Hate crime is usually punishable in most jurisdictions, I should think. Yes?

 

http://www.au.org

[j.man]

Not all are grown adults, and even if they were, they're significantly outnumbered by individuals seeking to limit their rights and harm them in more extreme ways. It's hard for SWMs to understand that since they are never in the minority.

 

I will champion other people's causes. You are free not to, but I find it strange that you would discourage it when you have no dog in the fight. We are going to disagree on what tactics are effective and ineffective. I believe remaining silent is not effective.

 

I stood up for gay people. Just because it went unheard by any gays doesn't mean it can't have some tangible effect. Thoughts and words manifest as actions. Thinking otherwise is shortsighted and naive.

 

I bet ever single gay individual who found out what I did would appreciate it. Just like a black person would appreciate me sticking up for them, etc.

 

I don't understand this statement.

 

I'm not saying I'm better than anybody for sticking up for someone. And they are not little kids that need to be coddled, but they can't make it on their own, and they shouldn't have to anyway. And I'm not masquerading anything. I was genuinely offended for a community I care about. Otherwise this thread wouldn't exist. I can offer no more proof than my words.

And I'm sorry to say, but this is pretty much a caricature of everything wrong with elements of the social justice movement. And I say that as someone who well acknowledges there are a good number of issues the movement addresses that need addressing. Were this post coming from an 18-year old freshman first experiencing life outside of Salt Lake City, I'd just nod and at least understand where you're coming from. But whether your current outlook is out of sheer vanity or if it's a case of "the road to hell being paved with good intentions," I hope you'll reshape your strategy in the future, particularly as it pertains to identifying how "every" person in a minority group would feel.

[LaHermes]

I can see where you are coming from, JMan.

 

I often have occasion to recall: "No good deed goes unpunished".....

 

We simply cannot second guess what the feelings might be of any member or members of any particular sector of society. People are a little more complex and complicated that we might think.

[Careerchoice]

And I'm sorry to say, but this is pretty much a caricature of everything wrong with elements of the social justice movement. And I say that as someone who well acknowledges there are a good number of issues the movement addresses that need addressing. Were this post coming from an 18-year old freshman first experiencing life outside of Salt Lake City, I'd just nod and at least understand where you're coming from. But whether your current outlook is out of sheer vanity or if it's a case of "the road to hell being paved with good intentions," I hope you'll reshape your strategy in the future, particularly as it pertains to identifying how "every" person in a minority group would feel.

 

And how would you construct the movement? Not that you are an authority.

 

I'm 39, but young people have a better grasp of empathy and are not as short sighted as our generations. I don't support your age discrimination.

 

How is this an expression of vanity? And I don't understand your quote. You make a lot of statements, but you don't explain anything.

 

And what is my strategy exactly? Please explain it to me.

 

You state that you are a leftist on many issues, and in Utah, maybe you would be considered that, but your views are truly dead center moderate conservative.

[Careerchoice]

I can see where you are coming from, JMan.

 

I can't. I really hate that this term Social Justice Warrior is used in the pejorative, like its predecessor "bleeding heart liberal". I'll never understand why it became cool to make fun of people who care about other people. Their opposite are a bunch of racist, sexist, homophobic, bigots, who seek to inflict harm on others. Which group do you think needs the finger pointed at?

[LaHermes]

How would YOU construct the movement, CC? What would you do? Are YOU an authority on such matters?

 

It is all very well to generalize, but perhaps it might be better to say "some young people" and "some of our generation".

 

Perhaps YOU could explain to us where you stand (right, left, centre).

 

You just remarked:

 

" I'll never understand why it became cool to make fun of people who care about other people. "

 

It is never cool to make fun of anyone, less so those who care about others.

 

You are thinking in extremes, CC. You see, nothing is ever as it seems.

 

"The accusation of being an SJW carries implications of pursuing personal validation rather than any deep-seated conviction, and being engaged in disingenuous social justice arguments or activism to raise personal reputation, also known as virtue signalling".

 

See, our motives are not always as altruistic as we would like to believe ourselves.

[MizzNatalie]

Well if it's a deal breaker... at least you know now. or agree to disagree? letting it affect your day is not worth differing of opinions. I live in a super conservative town and saw some anti religious sentiment on a van the other day. I let myself be angry for 5 minutes then moved on. positive energy. maybe she's not the right girl or maybe you should sit down and have a deeper conversation to see where she stands on issues?

[Ms Darcy]

I can't. I really hate that this term Social Justice Warrior is used in the pejorative, like its predecessor "bleeding heart liberal". I'll never understand why it became cool to make fun of people who care about other people. Their opposite are a bunch of racist, sexist, homophobic, bigots, who seek to inflict harm on others. Which group do you think needs the finger pointed at?

 

I actually agree with you here. Same with the use of "feminist" as a pejorative.

 

Funny story: I used to get into long discussions trying to "reason" certain things.

 

Mrs Darcy: [in the middle of a discussion in college] ... there is significant racial and economic discrimination in the criminal justice system.

 

Person: No there isn't. Stop being a tree hugger.

 

Mrs Darcy: No, I can prove it. [site statistically significant evidence.]

 

Person: Well, that group commits more crimes.

 

Mrs Darcy: Well, not necessarily. No for X. Yes for Y. (Let's say Y is a drug like marijuana.) But that group is policed/stopped far more than other group. A lot of other groups do that too but aren't policed and arrested at nearly the same rate.

 

Person: I don't believe that other groups do as many drugs. [Person smokes a joint.]

 

***

 

Moral of the story is not at all about my beliefs. It's about how I realized I needed to recognize my own limits and boundaries. I needed to ensure that I defined what I needed for the types of interactions I had with people. I don't particularly need an acquaintance to have similar morals and beliefs. But I certainly need that in a partner.

 

What this conversation does (with her and with you in this thread) is solidifies certain things you need in someone you are with. That's OK. Those are called needs and boundaries.

[katrina1980]

Cc, first off I respect and admire your dedication and passion for the cause but I am wondering, why did you deem it necessary to tell this woman you were going to a "gay" club?

 

I mean, why not just tell her you were going to this "cool" club. Or just a club?

 

Gay, straight, black, white, red, green, blue, yellow, does it matter?

 

It shouldn't, not to me, we are all "human beings" at the end of the day.

 

Genuinely curious, because I recently moved to an area in southern Cali where a lot of gays live, and where there are many many "gay" clubs..

 

And yeah they are always loads of fun and offer something different from the standard everyday dance/music club..

 

But whenever we go there, I would never think to say "going to a 'gay' club," it's just a club! A fun club, a cool club, good music, whatevs, but why make a special point to say it was a "gay" club?

 

Doesn't differentiating it with the "gay" label perpetuate the very prejudice and social injustice you are fighting to eliminate?

 

For me, I am uncomfortable calling it a "gay" club even in this post!

 

I dislike any sort of label immensely, or differentiating between "groups" and hope I am alive to see the day when such labels become obsolete. They have no place in modern society imho!

 

We are ALL just "human beings" and "people" at end of day, we all come from the same Source, no matter what color we are, what our sexual preference is, religion, etc.

 

Not trying to be adversarial, and maybe I am being naive, this is just sort of a pet peeve of mine and interested in your thoughts

[LaHermes]

Indeed, Katrina.

 

"Doesn't differentiating it with the "gay" label perpetuate the very prejudice and social injustice you are fighting to eliminate?

 

For me, I am uncomfortable calling it a "gay" club even in this post?"

[Careerchoice]

Well if it's a deal breaker... at least you know now. or agree to disagree? letting it affect your day is not worth differing of opinions. I live in a super conservative town and saw some anti religious sentiment on a van the other day. I let myself be angry for 5 minutes then moved on. positive energy. maybe she's not the right girl or maybe you should sit down and have a deeper conversation to see where she stands on issues?

 

Of course you're correct. This thread is simply my version of your 5 minutes. I have definitely moved on from that emotion.

 

I was able to reframe her statement back to her and she dropped the issue and we moved on. We are still chatting. At this point I'm still unsure of what her true motives were in making that statement. Maybe she is homophobic. Maybe it was a test to see if I would wither at her criticism. Maybe, as you state, she needs to hear a full discussion on the issue before she makes up her mind.

[Annia]

Yes, that's a great idea. I'm going to pack up a suitcase, move to some city where I don't know anyone, and start my life over. As an alternative, maybe you conservatives could move?

 

 

 

When did I say they do?

 

 

 

Because they are oppressed? But conservative straight white males wouldn't know anything about that, unless you feel that they are the ones who are oppressed.

 

 

 

Why should they shut up? You felt free to speak your mind on this thread. You can't be a hypocrite. Either people are freely able to speak their mind or not.

 

I hope that you know that the antipathy towards "straight white males" is more harmful than beneficial to the whole SJW movement, right?

 

But besides that, if you got offended with what she said don't date her. You two are obviously not compatible in your values.