Saying "stop"

[lifesatrip]

But yeah, as I think about it more, there are so many other things that bothered me. Like weird passive aggressive comments about my country - and I'm not even a fan of my own country, but the way he'd phrase some of them was quite passive aggressive. And other passive aggressive acts. Not that I was perfect at all. But this has felt more adversarial than anything else at the bottom of it.

[lifesatrip]

One other thing that I find myself wondering a lot is how does a person who acts this way have a history of good romantic relationships? I know he had a quite long relationship with a foreign woman - thought they would get married, but logistics got in the way apparently. Is it just that I am harder to respect? Or does someone who displays this behavior have a problem in any relationship? I am really confused.

 

I just know that from what he said their problems were really small and limited. Didn't have problems in the beginning and after that it was just small stuff. And he said they passed out of the honeymoon stage. Yet he also admitted to being disillusioned by the breakup of this long-term relationship and mentioned that he now sees women differently, less innocently.

 

I find it hard to imagine how someone who saw women as "innocent" could have a good, genuine, fulfilling connection to a woman. I guess I'm torturing myself a little, telling myself that if I measured up to his ex things would have played out differently. Telling myself that it is hard to respect a person like me, so that's why I am having problems with him.

[Wiseman2]

Please don't buy into this baby love theory. Just look at the welfare lines if you want to see women who got pregnant to prove their love for their man.

He did speak of wanting a committed relationship. Of wanting to be closer to me and that a baby would symbolize that closeness, created love etc.

[IAmFCA]

Interesting. I think you have a point. He did speak of wanting a committed relationship. Of wanting to be closer to me (or whoever his long term partner would be) and that a baby would symbolize that closeness, created love etc. But underneath it could easily be about his own validation. Basically you are saying you think he wants me to want to have his baby and he wants me to feel honored that I want to have his baby so that he can feel good about himself? But does not intend to follow through?

I don't know and am not interested in guessing at him too much. Only to suggest that his outer habit of talking about nice topics may mask an inner self that isn't consistent with your idea of "good".

 

Point being, he talked of things that got your imagination working. He didn't actually DO anything. And some of what he said and how he said it betrays an underlying view of the world that puts him in the center. Why is a way of expressing his feelings for you centered around "that a baby would symbolize...", especially when you don't even want one? I've had a number of men express like and love for me and never once talk of making babies, what a baby would represent, etc.

 

What of this notion that a baby would symbolize your love? When it is a toddler, is it still a symbol? How about when it is 10, or 15, or 20. When does this human become more than a symbol, more than an ornament to hang on this man's tree of life? What a crap thing to teach someone - that their value in the world is derivative of oneself.

[ParisPaulette]

I think there are so many layers of wrong on both sides here that all I'm going to say is "potential" does not and should not EVER apply to human beings. Potential is great if you're buying an old house and you want to fix it up. Potential is great if you want to sign up for a course that might, maybe, yeah just possibly, some day get you work.

 

Potential is not a word you should ever use in regards to another human being and whether you want them in your life or not, because people simple "ARE." They are not fixer uppers or oh only if I can erase this aspect of their personality they'd fit the mold of what I want, etc. etc. etc.

 

So stop with the "potential" ideas. What you have in front of you is a guy who will not give a rat's patootie if you get pregnant or he gives you an STD. I say that, because the smart ones actually insist on protection 'cause they're like "I am not becoming someone's Baby Daddy, petri dish." (Sorry to be so crude, but come on.)

 

And before you do the whole "I can't get pregnant routine" please realize you are talking to the woman who did. After I'd been told by a doctor I'd never bear children again. And I was stupid. That I only got a lovely son out of the deal is something that means I am simply very, very, VERY blessed by angels or something.

 

That this guy doesn't seem to understand or care what one little word - stop - means is pretty much a giant red flag. But I also agree you need to work on your own boundaries and be very clear to yourself and then to him what it is you want or don't want.

[IAmFCA]

I really appreciate everyone's responses. I am feeling much stronger and more motivated to end it. I am going to tell him I want to talk tonight. He might be so fed up by this point he won't even talk to me. On one hand I am afraid I am being heartless by ending it - I kept complaining to him about all these things that didn't feel right to me and really overreacting at times. And he seemed to be trying to address the things. Although obviously not that hard if he didn't stop this morning when i asked him to But I suspect it is because he likes the physical stuff and doesn't want it to go away. And maybe unconsciously he is lying to himself and telling himself he is looking for something real. But then I am afraid he is more sincere than I think and that I am being callous with him and his feelings. I guess it's impossible to know.

You are not on this planet as a reward for someone else's good intentions.

 

If you will not pursue what is best for you, nobody will. You know yourself best and therefore must take and act on your own advice. You are not comfortable. You know this has no future. You are pursuing your future, and this has become too much of a distraction from your path. Therefore, it is time to be over.

 

You appreciate the warmth and affection he has offered you and you wish him well.

 

I expect he will try to reason with you. Then, that his ego will be hurt and that he may say something mean and unfeeling. Ignore it, all of it. Do not get drawn in.

 

Do this in a neutral place, not where either of you lives.

[IAmFCA]

So many things to say here [in your post about his prior long term LDR and feelings of not measuring up]. Mostly:

 

You do not choose him! You said so at the jump. Why do you care whether he would choose you?

[lifesatrip]

I went to break up with him the night I wrote this post, but was weak and caved. I did have a long discussion with him about the issue and he admitted he was wrong. We discussed other issues as well. I feel like this is an unhealthy situation where neither of us want to let go. He acts so interested in some ways - his words, spending as much time with me as he can (he has almost no time), but on the other hand I don't trust his sincerity. And some of his actions make me feel small and objectified - but I always over-react and don't know what a healthy relationship feels like, so I am wondering if it is partly that I am acting like a child. I feel like when we talk at times he is not that interested and I can't tell if I'm just being sensitive. I am learning more about his views of women and that is starting to disturb me too. So yeah, I need to end it. But I keep finding myself hoping that it is not necessary to end it. Ugh.

 

He also has made some rather insulting comments about Americans. I bash America too. But it is different when someone you are dating does this to you especially when they indicate your inferiority (as a country) to European countries. I don't know if I am over-reacting and he is just thinking out loud and putting his foot in his mouth. But it's making me seriously think that maybe he is negging me in some way - trying to make me feel bad or less. Am I overreacting to such things?

[lifesatrip]

I went to break up with him the night I wrote this post, but was weak and caved. I did have a long discussion with him about the issue and he admitted he was wrong. We discussed other issues as well. I feel like this is an unhealthy situation where neither of us want to let go. He acts so interested in some ways - his words, spending as much time with me as he can (he has almost no time), but on the other hand I don't trust his sincerity. And some of his actions make me feel small and objectified - but I always over-react and don't know what a healthy relationship feels like, so I am wondering if it is partly that I am acting like a child. I feel like when we talk at times he is not that interested and I can't tell if I'm just being sensitive. I am learning more about his views of women and that is starting to disturb me too. So yeah, I need to end it. But I keep finding myself hoping that it is not necessary to end it. Ugh.

 

He also has made some rather insulting comments about Americans. I bash America too. But it is different when someone you are dating does this to you especially when they indicate your inferiority (as a country) to European countries. I don't know if I am over-reacting and he is just thinking out loud and putting his foot in his mouth. But it's making me seriously think that maybe he is negging me in some way - trying to make me feel bad or less. Am I overreacting to such things?

 

To give an example of these comments: on our first date he told me he thought german girls were often like a better version of american girls (frased more subtly but not that subtly). I am American, his ex is German. I didn't take it too personally that night since I was criticizing my country to him. But it felt strange that he'd say that.

 

More recently we were watching something (something American) and he commented that he has observed Americans to be more boring and reserved than people from other countries. Earlier in the day I am pretty sure I asked him if he was bored during our conversations - I had been feeling like he didn't like talking to me at times, but rather than make assumptions I wanted to ask him directly first - my therapist was always recommending that I do this. He claimed he was not. But then later in the evening made this comment. Maybe he didn't remember that I had asked him if I bored him earlier. But if he did remember, this would strike me as a really passive aggressive way to tell me or make me feel bad. I called him out on it and asked if he was trying to make a comment about me. He said no, he was just expressing a generalization he had noticed. I asked him if he was saying he found me boring and he didn't answer directly I don't think. I think he just said he thought I was reserved which was consistent with his observations of Americans, and that his comment about boringness was a generalization based on his observations of Americans. So he didn't go far to reassure me here I don't think.

 

Then yesterday (the other American comment was just a couple days ago) we were sitting together talking. He suddenly told me I was sexy. He then went into some weird introduction about how he had observed something about Americans. He went into this introduction that one of the things he always notices about people is their skin. He then told me that Europeans tend to have much healthier skin than Americans. He said he really noticed this after learning about American diets and said he thought it was because of the diet. Then he asked me if I ate a lot of fast food (i don't). The way the conversation was going I thought he was going to say something along the lines of, "but you have nice skin," but instead he asked me about my diet. I asked him why he would tell me I'm sexy and then indicate I have bad skin. And he claimed that he wasn't talking about me, that he had just told me I was sexy, that the comment was not really related to me, just a generalization about Americans. And then almost as if he knew he had to say something he said something about me being an "exception." I wanted to inquire further but he suddenly had to take (or make, I can't remember) a call. And I didn't bring it up again because I had overreacted to other things in this relationship, I didn't want to sound crazy.

 

This last comment really made me pause and I don't know how much I'm overreacting. Could he be putting his foot in his mouth unintentionally or does it sound like he means to put me down in subtle ways?

 

I know people will tell me to end it reguardless, but it would be helpful to get input into whether people think I am overreacting to something innocent because I know i can overreact and I want to know how to respond to these types of things in the future. Thanks.

[IAmFCA]

I need to boil this down.

 

You and he were making sweeping generalizations that were disparaging about Americans. This is okay.

 

You're American. But you didn't include yourself as being like otjer Americans. Then it seems he did, and so now you're wondering if you should be offended.

 

Did i get that right?

 

I found the whole conversation offensive. From both of you.

 

If you are comfortable judging people on their looks, and ranking their value without regard to hardships and contributions, well then i would say you are well matched.

[lifesatrip]

I need to boil this down.

 

You and he were making sweeping generalizations that were disparaging about Americans. This is okay.

 

You're American. But you didn't include yourself as being like otjer Americans. Then it seems he did, and so now you're wondering if you should be offended.

 

Did i get that right?

 

I found the whole conversation offensive. From both of you.

 

If you are comfortable judging people on their looks, and ranking their value without regard to hardships and contributions, well then i would say you are well matched.

 

Um no, not entirely. Yes we both made generalizations about Americans but qualified that they were just generalizations. During this first convo I wasn't sure if he was lumping me in with all Americans or not. I don't remember the content of the conversation well at all. It was mostly about politics I think and from my end the ignorance of Americans (something I need to fix in myself).

 

We've had a couple other conversations about Americans and I let him have his say without getting offended.

 

I got offended when a couple days ago he made a comment about Americans out of the blue that seemed really insensitive considering an insecurity I had shared with him earlier. Then the next day he made some weird long winded point about Europeans having better skin - and this was after a fight a couple hours earlier. The energy between us was an energy of trying to mend things and connect and then he threw in this ridiculous superficial skin comment. It made me wonder if he had an agenda when making the comment. It made me wonder if it was passive aggressive way to put some distance between us or a way to make me feel lower value or something.

 

I think you are judging me rather harshly and quickly here. No I would not say I am "comfortable judging people on their looks, and ranking their value without regard to hardships and contributions." But I can see your point about the US being a very diverse place and it is not so great to make sweeping judgements.

[IAmFCA]

Be offended by his skin comment if you want. The bigger picture is you both were making sweeping generalizations as if you can see some great truth, some flaw, and are above and free from it. You forgot that you are not alone, that you are not better than, that people are human and not simply objects who disrespect themselves with too much bad food as if size and skin are windows to their souls.

 

Are you your skin? If it is flawed, does it matter?

[Batya33]

I often was in ambiguous situations with serious boyfriends where we knew we weren't going to have sex yet but we would share a bed and be sexual. I also did that with men I wasn't that serious with and never had an issue. I did have an issue twice and both times because it was with men I didn't know well and/or he was drunk. In one case he knew I meant stop and tried to keep going - twice- with my hands pinned down and the second time was with a guy who commented that he could force me if he wanted to. But in general it's fine to set boundaries and fine to say stop whenever but i would try to prevent that from happening too often with your boyfriend - limit it to times when you physically can't continue or when you realize that you're absolutely not in the mood. The condom situation and boundaries must be discussed beforehand until you two are much more on the same page about it. Please understand - it's always ok to say stop but if it's possible to avoid situations where you could have been clearer in advance rather than suddenly stopping that just sounds more positive for both of you.

[lifesatrip]

Be offended by his skin comment if you want. The bigger picture is you both were making sweeping generalizations as if you can see some great truth, some flaw, and are above and free from it. You forgot that you are not alone, that you are not better than, that people are human and not simply objects who disrespect themselves with too much bad food as if size and skin are windows to their souls.

 

Are you your skin? If it is flawed, does it matter?

 

I really think you misunderstood where I was coming from. I did not and do not put importance on the quality of a person's skin. That was something he brought up, which was offensive. When I make generalizations about the US they are generally about culture and how it affects our politics. I try not to exclude myself from these generalizations entirely. But I do agree that sometimes it would be better for me not to talk in such generalizations.

 

I certainly do not see humans as being divided into real humans and "those who disrespect themselves." I am not perfect and have had arrogant moments as a defense against feeling inferior at times. But my view of the world is not as you indicate it to be. Sometimes I get frustrated by aspects of American culture. But at the end of the day, those aspects are in me too. And obviously the US has many cultures, there is not just one culture, and not everyone will fall into every generalization. I brought up these things about Americans partly to show a little humility to the person who I was talking with since the US has not treated his country well. I guess I wanted to distance myself from how Americans are often perceived here. I do think I went about it badly.

 

And no skin flaws do not matter. I was just not sure what it meant that he chose to bring that up as a subject of conversation. It made me think he had some resentment or agenda toward me. That is the part that made me feel upset.

[lifesatrip]

I often was in ambiguous situations with serious boyfriends where we knew we weren't going to have sex yet but we would share a bed and be sexual. I also did that with men I wasn't that serious with and never had an issue. I did have an issue twice and both times because it was with men I didn't know well and/or he was drunk. In one case he knew I meant stop and tried to keep going - twice- with my hands pinned down and the second time was with a guy who commented that he could force me if he wanted to. But in general it's fine to set boundaries and fine to say stop whenever but i would try to prevent that from happening too often with your boyfriend - limit it to times when you physically can't continue or when you realize that you're absolutely not in the mood. The condom situation and boundaries must be discussed beforehand until you two are much more on the same page about it. Please understand - it's always ok to say stop but if it's possible to avoid situations where you could have been clearer in advance rather than suddenly stopping that just sounds more positive for both of you.

 

Thanks. We did discuss condoms in advance so he did know my position on that. What I find difficult with guys is I will tell them I only want to have sex with a condom in advance. And they will agree, but will want to rub against me without a condom. They say they will not enter. It's a weird situation because it is pleasurable, and they may mistake that for being a sign that I want them to enter. I know I can tell them not to rub against me at all, but guys seem to be very shut down by this and think it's extreme and they don't understand it. So it kind of ruins some of the flow in the moment.

 

Does this happen to other people?

[lifesatrip]

In regards to the guy I initially posted about, he ended things a day ago. We kept arguing/having discussions because I was having a lot of trust issues and questioning whether he respected me as a person. He finally had enough. I don't know how I feel. On one hand I am relieved because it felt like it wasn't a good situation. But another part of myself is blaming myself and saying if I hadn't been so over-reactive things could have worked.

 

I felt some connection with him, and that feels so rare for me. But there were many things I just could not let go or feel comfortable about. Small things, many of which may have been cultural. I don't know if my instincts were correct to distrust him or if I was just being insecure. Oh well. It never feels easy to end things with someone. I am feeling grief and guilt for my behavior with him. I think it it may be especially hard because I am in a foreign country and everyone I know here (from work) are about to leave as the school year ends (less than 2 weeks), but I plan on sticking around for a while to study the language more. This means i have to find a way to get to know some more people here. I'm really afraid of feeling starved for deep human connection and getting depressed. As an introvert, superficial connections can be nice, but I generally feel quite alone without some deeper connections.

[IAmFCA]

I really think you misunderstood where I was coming from. I did not and do not put importance on the quality of a person's skin. That was something he brought up, which was offensive. When I make generalizations about the US they are generally about culture and how it affects our politics. I try not to exclude myself from these generalizations entirely. But I do agree that sometimes it would be better for me not to talk in such generalizations.

 

I certainly do not see humans as being divided into real humans and "those who disrespect themselves." I am not perfect and have had arrogant moments as a defense against feeling inferior at times. But my view of the world is not as you indicate it to be. Sometimes I get frustrated by aspects of American culture. But at the end of the day, those aspects are in me too. And obviously the US has many cultures, there is not just one culture, and not everyone will fall into every generalization. I brought up these things about Americans partly to show a little humility to the person who I was talking with since the US has not treated his country well. I guess I wanted to distance myself from how Americans are often perceived here. I do think I went about it badly.

 

And no skin flaws do not matter. I was just not sure what it meant that he chose to bring that up as a subject of conversation. It made me think he had some resentment or agenda toward me. That is the part that made me feel upset.

 

I don't get why his question as to your diet was offensive. He could have been implying that it must be better than the typical american. And if skin isn't such a sensitive issue, you could have thought and said - "not so great a diet. Maybe my skin would bebetter if i ate more like people in this country. Interesting."

 

I get that you wanted to find common ground. Always better to be authentic rather than agreeable.

[lifesatrip]

I don't get why his question as to your diet was offensive. He could have been implying that it must be better than the typical american. And if skin isn't such a sensitive issue, you could have thought and said - "not so great a diet. Maybe my skin would bebetter if i ate more like people in this country. Interesting."

 

I get that you wanted to find common ground. Always better to be authentic rather than agreeable.

 

I just thought it was really rude of him to make that comment. I felt like he was trying to tell me I was not as great as European girls. Maybe I misinterpreted it. I was afraid he was intentionally trying to make me feel small or something.

 

Does this not strike anyone else as a weird thing to say to a date you just had a fight with and were working to repair things with?

[IAmFCA]

Im sorry, if you are, that it ended. That's never fun.

 

In general, stay away from people who find the negatives in the world (people, things,cultures, friends etc). So much of what we see is a function of what we choose to see.

[lifesatrip]

Im sorry, if you are, that it ended. That's never fun.

 

In general, stay away from people who find the negatives in the world (people, things,cultures, friends etc). So much of what we see is a function of what we choose to see.

 

But there are negatives in the world. I don't want to be or be with someone who turns a blind eye to them. But no I don't want to get bogged down in negativity and judgement, but rather would focus on love and compassion and understanding. But if I talk to people who only keep everything positive I feel drained and like I have to hide part of who I am. I feel the need to process what is negative. Not all the time, but sometimes. So yeah, it feels like a challenge to find people who have the right balance of qualities.

[IAmFCA]

But there are negatives in the world. I don't want to be or be with someone who turns a blind eye to them. But no I don't want to get bogged down in negativity and judgement, but rather would focus on love and compassion and understanding. But if I talk to people who only keep everything positive I feel drained and like I have to hide part of who I am. I feel the need to process what is negative. Not all the time, but sometimes. So yeah, it feels like a challenge to find people who have the right balance of qualities.

Consider that most negative things have a positive impact, for someone, at some level. In people, our flaws are also our strengths. War, terrorism - awful. But not to everyone or else it wouldn't exist. The human experience large and small is multi dimensional, not just good/bad.

[lifesatrip]

Consider that most negative things have a positive impact, for someone, at some level. In people, our flaws are also our strengths. War, terrorism - awful. But not to everyone or else it wouldn't exist. The human experience large and small is multi dimensional, not just good/bad.

 

Hmm. I like what you say about our flaws also being our strengths. It think it's true, at least in many cases.

 

But I also think that there are some negative things that do need to be addressed in the world and in ourselves - that we need to actively work to bring the positive out of the negative.

 

With war and terrorism, I think they benefit a few people at the expense of others, and I don't think this is good. Perhaps some wars need to happen - for example if a people is being oppressed by another people - as a last resort. But the wars we see today seem more based in greed than anything else and the lust for power.

[IAmFCA]

War and lust for power have been a dynamic of human society as far we can see back in time. The strength that enables a person to lead a people runs very close to the flaw that drives that same person to feed him or herself with power for power's sake.

 

Eradicating war is beyond anyone's scope. Preventing it in certain instances may be what drives a conflict negotiator, a political leader, a community leader. Those are roles that may seem compromised to some but essential tools of peace to others.

 

You are teaching now in a foreign land. You have an interest in foreign policy and community impacts. Maybe think about working for AID when you are back in the States.

[Jibralta]

I feel like it is but part of me doesn´t want to admit it.

 

I hope that going forward, you learn to admit your true feelings. I hope you learn not to compromise them.

[misstiff]

Maybe you guys need a safe word if you think he won't take you seriously when you tell him to stop. That way there is no confusion and if he doesn't stop when you use the safe word tell that dude to kick rocks.