She's guarded and afraid of losing me

[jjkk]

No, nothing said here is going to make me want to stop seeing her. I made that clear from the outset. What I'm looking for, again, are people who are or have been in either of our shoes. I would like advice on how to proceed with someone who is so guarded, and possibly a little of what to expect, tactics that have worked in helping someone open up, that kind of thing. So far, in three pages, there's been none of that, only people suggesting I'm an idiot for giving her a chance, and people ridiculing me when I disagree. It's getting very old.

 

I apologize in advance. I haven't read the entire thread, just OP and here's what I'll say real quick as a formerly very guarded person (I'll go back and read later and perhaps add some more)...I'd have gone over w/ the ice cream and she probably would have enjoyed hanging out w/ you and eating ice cream. In my experience you just have to be a bit more obvious and assertive with your desires and intentions.

 

For one thing, unless I missed something entirely, I thought your end of the texting sounded quite stand offish and to someone who is guarded and scared/shy/insecure/etc. they will pick up on this. I took your conversation w/ her completely differently. I saw it as her wanting to spend time w/ you and being shot down. Maybe texting isn't the best way for the two of you to communicate? From the bit of responses I read, I took this entirely differently from others and since I haven't read the whole thing maybe I'm missing something? If so, please help me see it, lol.

 

So...summary...putting myself in the mindset of when I was guarded and terribly scared in relationships, I saw this as her wanting to spend time/attention w/ you and you blowing her off. Unfortunately, though, this is something she has to work on getting past, too. It's not on your shoulders. You can do things like be consistent and more assertive about seeing her/spending time w/ her but she needs to work w/ a therapist and learn how to get through this or it will always be there.

[Ms Darcy]

No, nothing said here is going to make me want to stop seeing her. I made that clear from the outset. What I'm looking for, again, are people who are or have been in either of our shoes. I would like advice on how to proceed with someone who is so guarded, and possibly a little of what to expect, tactics that have worked in helping someone open up, that kind of thing. So far, in three pages, there's been none of that, only people suggesting I'm an idiot for giving her a chance, and people ridiculing me when I disagree. It's getting very old.

 

You say you have been engaged? It's unfortunate that you haven't learned that in a healthy, long-lasting relationship it is never appropriate for you to work on "tactics to help someone to open up" for several reasons. Reason 1: I don't think the "I'm so guarded" thing is the truth. Reason 2: It is up to her to, if it is true, to want to change and to make efforts how to do so. You can support her opening herself up but trying to "open her up" when she's not actually doing it herself is indeed "white knight syndrome."

 

Also, you paid very little attention to the advice/responses I gave you in your past thread where I said things sounded fine just make sure you are listening closely to what she is telling you. So, it seems you are simply grouping advice and not really making any distinctions in what you are reading.

 

If you think people are ridiculing you, so be it. I think people are being honest about how the river is flowing south and you are continually asking for advice on how to get it to flow north.

[chewy21]

Exactly. Letting her know I'm available to date later means "stop dating her now". So thanks, but no thanks. If I end it, I know I won't have a chance later. She'll retreat, blame herself, and I'll just be another guy who wasn't able to stick it out. Nothing will change for her, and I'll have destroyed any chance at a relationship with the most promising woman I've ever met.

 

And yes, Bayta, I enjoy a challenge. I play video games, board games, and sports. Competition is fun, as is puzzle-solving. Does some of that carry over into my relationships? Maybe. I certainly like being able to help the people I care about. If it makes them feel better, and I feel better about myself afterward, then it's a win-win.

 

I also don't give up when things get difficult. And I see people as more than a balance sheet, a sum of their pros and cons. People are individuals with unique perspectives from whom we can learn. In fact, that's why I'm here, asking for advice from other people. The perspectives help, even though they may not necessarily be what I was looking for, and even though I may strongly disagree. It's still taken on board. Everybody who replies is still a small voice in my head once they do.

[chewy21]

No, Ms Darcy, I paid attention and remembered that you supported me in the last thread. I'm sorry if it seemed otherwise.

 

In fact, if I remember correctly, you were around back in 2009 when I was dealing with the breakup between me and my fiancee. You were helpful then too, and you have my thanks.

 

I apologize if I worded that poorly. I have no intention of "opening her up". I just want to know how to help her do it, since she has been trying. Ultimately it's her issue to deal with, and I'm aware of that. Like I said, I just want to help someone I care about.

 

"White knight syndrome". What an awful name for people who want to help those they care for.

 

And people can see whatever they want in what I wrote. I have no issue with that. My mind is made up, and I'm not leaving her because of her issues. I just want advice on how to help her with them. If that means there's something wrong with me, then fine. But if you can't help, don't hinder. I don't need the ridicule, and insinuating that it's me just imagining it isn't helpful either.

[Ms Darcy]

Sadly, I do remember your previous breakups and I'm sorry for those.

 

I actually think WackaWacka gave you some pretty epic advice back in 2011 after a failed relationship that you should really think about for this situation as well (aaaah patterns!):

 

 

 

Although this girl is not "rebounding" per se, the point is women - when they see a future with a man - don't usually say all of this "I'm messed up" (or some variation) with no corresponding work on her end to improve. It's a passive way of signalling that she's not seeing you as a long-term prospect.

[missmarple]

women - when they see a future with a man - don't usually say all of this "I'm messed up" (or some variation) with no corresponding work on her end to improve. It's a passive way of signalling that she's not seeing you as a long-term prospect.

 

I couldn't agree more with this.

[chewy21]

Thank you very much for your input, jjkk. And yeah, there was some context you were missing. I'd been trying to push for more time with her lately, and I didn't know she had this issue of being guarded until she told me afterward. We had almost exclusively spent our time together playing an MMO for about the past week or so, and the only time I would see her is when I would bring over dinner or find some other excuse to drop by. But it was never for very long. And there's an ongoing trend where she always seemed to have an excuse for not spending time with me in person, which I had grown frustrated with lately. So her saying "Do you really want to come over..." was her basically saying she'd prefer if I didn't. I didn't have plans to go over there last night, so that's why I was confused and responded the way I did.

 

So no, I've been the opposite of standoffish up to this point. Most times I'm the one who makes an excuse for us to hang out.

 

And just a disclaimer... I simplified and summarized the text messages in the post. There were more in between, and they were longer, but I just wanted to get the points accross.

 

So you think I should be more aggressive about spending time with her? Because one of the things she said last night was that it was getting hard to handle how much time I wanted to spend with her. I was preparing to back off all that, give her some space, and have her let me know when she's comfortable spending time alone with me.

 

And no offense intended, but I would feel better waiting until we've been dating for a while before I suggest that she needs therapy.

 

It definitely seemed to me that she was defensive and upset after I told her how what she was suggesting sounded to me. It definitely seemed like she was hurt because she was trying to compromise with me and I essentially threw it back in her face. To be fair, it wasn't the greatest compromise, considering I was bringing her something as an excuse for her to see me, and that I'd been angling for some more time alone with her for a while now.

 

Again, thanks for responding. I appreciate your alternative perspective.

[chewy21]

I couldn't agree more with this.

 

Thank you missmarple, and you Ms Darcy. I understand what you're trying to do, and I do appreciate it.

 

And yeah, I ended up getting hurt after that relationship ended. It took a while, but I was fine afterward.

 

But you know what I don't have now? Regret.

 

So, I got hurt. So what? I know now that a relationship with that woman didn't have a chance. I don't ever wonder what I could have done or said differently, because I did and said all of those things when I was with her.

 

Pain heals. Regret, while not always life-long, lasts way longer than pain. Especially pain stemming from something you know you tried your best to make work.

 

What you're all doing here is trying to prevent pain. I'm not scared of pain. I'm scared of regret. And honestly, I can't believe none of you feel the same.

[jjkk]

If she tells you it's getting overwhelming then take her word for it and back off. Sorry I missed a lot of this thread. If you'd like her to let you know when she's ready for more time, that's fine but after looking at this more, I think you'll be waiting for a LONG time...probably until you get tired of waiting and move on. You've stated you don't want to end things and I'm not here to encourage you to do that. What I'd suggest is figuring out how much time YOU are willing to spend away from the person you're in a relationship with, how much time YOU are willing to wait for them to become more available.

 

Idk how much time you've been spending together but what is her ideal? What's your ideal amount of time with her? Is there a compromise? How much time are you trying to spend with her?

[chewy21]

It hasn't been a lot until recently. Like I said, I just got frustrated, and I knew there was something else going on. She assured me that she likes me, and I believed her, but when you like someone, you generally want to be around them. She didn't seem to, so I wanted to know what was making her feel that way. So i pressured. I'd find available times and ask to come over just to see what excuse she was gonna give me. And last night was when I finally said something about it, and I found out why.

 

Right now, one afternoon or evening a week would be fine with me. I told her that, but it was in the middle of our pretty emotionally charged phone conversation, so I may need to present that information again in a calmer setting. I don't feel like that's asking a lot, but I'm not her.

 

And thanks. I'll stick with my original plan of backing off for now.

 

I'm not gonna wait forever, but I am willing to give her some time to work on this. How long? I don't know. Depends on the progress she makes, and how effectively I can handle my needs not being met in the mean time.

 

Thanks again for your insight.

[jjkk]

Well good luck chewy! Let us know how it goes.

[chewy21]

Well good luck chewy! Let us know how it goes.

 

Thanks. I certainly will.

[Batya33]

We agree other than I don't think you are helping her by dating her or by indulging her/catering to her/pampering her in the way you are. I think you would help her by keeping the distance she wants and being there to support her if she wants input about her counseling or therapy. I love a challenge too but not the kind of challenge you're describing (and when I did like that type of challenge the way to describe me was "single" ;-).

 

Never give up just because things get difficult. That's not what is happening here. She is not just "difficult" she doesn't want the same things as you and she has told you she is not available for a relationship (except when it benefits her). And when things get difficult in a relationship we assume that there actually is a relationship. Here there is a one-sided relationship, mostly.

[chewy21]

Thanks Bayta.

 

I'm kinda done discussing whether or not anybody else thinks this is a relationship, or whether or not I should stay with her, or what's wrong with me that makes me want to stay. But I will address what you said, because I appreciate what you're trying to do and the time and thought you put into most of your posts.

 

I disagree with your first sentence. I think I am helping her by continuing to date her and be there for her. Non-problems don't get dealt with, and when you're not in a relationship, emotional walls and being extremely guarded aren't a problem. You may think she's not trying to change (though you've yet to provide any reason or evidence *why* you think that), but I think she is. I've seen her open up gradually as we've become closer. And something else that makes me sure she isn't just using me is something she's said on a few occasions:

 

"You know you can tell me 'no', right?"

 

And yes, I do know that, and I've told her that I know that. I prefer to say "yes" when I can, because I like seeing her happy.

 

I don't get the challenge thing. When you liked sports and games you were single. How does that correlate?

 

And I think she does, in fact, want the same things I do, she just has barriers that prevent it from happening at the moment. She never said she wasn't available for a relationship, nor anything of the sort. She said she was guarded. And trust me, I've been insecure enough because of the distance (and some personal stuff) to tell her if she wants to take a break, I'd understand. She called me a goof and said of course she doesn't want a break. I'd say that's firmly on the side of "available for a relationship."

 

I do appreciate your thoughts. It makes me consider what would happen to us if the roles were reversed. Could I expect her to stay with me as our relationship advances at a snail's pace? I don't know. I think I'd probably behave in much the same way she is: work on it as I thought I could handle it and make my feelings known as best I could.

[Batya33]

"And yes, I do know that, and I've told her that I know that. I prefer to say "yes" when I can, because I like seeing her happy."

 

If you behave like a doormat or indulge her despite her behaving in a disrespectful or distant way -you show her that you don't really respect yourself and while she might be happy short term -instant gratification -over the long term she will be unhappy that you did certain things just to please her even though it didn't make you happy -she won't respect you for behaving that way.

 

She doesn't have "barriers that prevent it from happening" -that's passive. Rather she is choosing not to take steps to remove those barriers and be with you. For now she enjoys the control she has in your interactions and is confused when you don't say "no" when her request is inappropriate or insensitive -she wants you to say no to demonstrate that you respect yourself and inspire respect -not just approval -in her and others. It's not about being bad to her or withholding -it's about responding to her from a position of reasonable confidence and self-respect so that when she asks you to come over just to bring ice cream and leave and you say nicely but firmly "sorry I won't make that trip just to bring you ice cream but if you want to go out for ice cream later this week I might be free"- then she sees that you have self-respect - a turn-on and far more gratifying than if you had brought her ice cream (which I know you didn't do but it would have been better IMO to make it clear to her why not).

 

Don't say yes just because you think that will make her happy -say yes because from a position of confidence and self-respect you think her request is reasonable and not just or mainly to seek her approval or get her attention.

 

 

Watch the feet not the lips -not that she says she doesn't want a break but how she acts and whether her actions are consistent with treating you as you deserve to be treated and whether she stops talking about her "barriers" and starts acting like someone who is enthusiastic about moving past her barriers and fears, whatever it takes.

 

I was single -and in on again off again relationships -when I pursued or stayed involved with emotionally unavailable men. It was challenging to try to "get through" -it kept me on my toes - but I was kidding myself if I thought it was a healthy way to interact or that it was the kind of "work" that relationships require or that results in a stronger bond. Both people have to be single and emotionally available for a relationship. And after that of course most relationships require work.

 

The longer you stick around and keep trying to please her, placate her, get her approval, the more she is going to get annoyed with you, lose respect for you, feel turned off. And when she is emotionally available -if she ever is -she's going to pick the person who won't take her crap in the way that you do - the person who knows how to say no nicely but firmly and unafraid that the other person won't love him anymore - the person who says "you want space -that's fine, I understand" and gives the person twice the space that person seems to need and knows 100% that the person will return when she/he is ready and won't feel abandoned or forget about them. She won't go for "bad guys" once she is healthy. Nor will she go for the guy who sacrificed his self-respect and self-esteem just to make her happy.

 

I know this is not mother-son (thank goodness) but what I can tell you -each and every time I say no to something my 5-year old son wants (because it is not safe enough, because it's too expensive, unhealthy or because he hasn't behaved appropriately to deserve it) and I stand quiet and firm as he gets upset, right after the tears/tantrum is over he most often throws his arms around me and tells me he loves me or something similar. I will tell you I sometimes get a tiny bit nervous that as he puts it "I won't be your friend anymore!" and then I remember that respect is far more important than whether he likes me at that moment. He knows I am saying no because I have his best interests at heart -and sometimes the best interest is that I want to teach him how to treat me by showing him that I treat myself with respect and don't give in to his every whim.

 

Take away from that what you wish (including nothing -no worries!).

[chewy21]

We just finished talking. And I'm very relieved.

 

I told her to let me start, and I outlined what I planned to do: basically be patient with her while she tries to work through this, and to stop pushing for so much time with her. I told her that since she has issues being together in person, and I don't, then she can decide when we spend time together. I only ask for at least one day a week to spend a few hours together, preferably a weekend day, so that if she feels comfortable we can extend how long we hang out.

 

I also made it clear that this was pretty unfair to me. She can't trust me, but she expects me to trust that she's telling me the truth about how she feels and what's going on. I told her not to worry, that I do trust her and believe her, but that expecting me to do that in order for us to work was a little hypocritical.

 

I wrapped up by telling her I thought she was worth the time and effort it was gonna take to make this work.

 

She spoke next, and immediately wanted to clarify something that was a big part of what I took away from last night. I told you she led off with excuses about her arm and the pain she's in being reasons she didn't want to spend time with me. I countered by bringing up that this has been an ongoing thing, and that's what made her break down and tell me that she was scared because she liked me so much and I was pushing my way in.

 

She said that while that was true, mostly at first, it really is the pain more than anything else now. She was tired, hurting, and frustrated, and I obviously wasn't taking the pain as a real answer, so she just blurted that out.

 

She explained it with an analogy: you don't try to touch an injured animal.

 

She said that's how she feels mainly because she was an only child and the only person she felt comfortable being around when she was crying or in pain was her mom. She used to lay accross her mom's lap, and said that's really the only contact that ever felt right when she was hurting. Otherwise she'd lick her wounds alone. So other people present when she's in pain feels like a safety thing, like she's not at 100% if she happened to need to defend herself. Also, she's mentioned before that she hates feeling like she's not in control, which is why being abducted by aliens is her biggest fear, even though she knows it's an irrational one. So I think that fear of not being in control of what happens to her comes into play a bit here as well.

 

She kept saying while she was talking that she knows it's weird to not want people around when she feels bad, and that she doesn't blame me for being confused.

 

She said she didn't want to tell me that's why she didn't wanna hang out because she was afraid I wouldn't understand or I would be freaked out by how weird she is about it. So it was just easier for her to make excuses that were valid rather than try to explain what happens when she's in pain, while she's in pain.

 

So the being guarded thing is still an issue for her, but nowhere near as big a deal as I thought it was after last night. And she said after what I told her I was willing to do, and my assurances to the contrary, that she was gonna stop worrying that spending time with me would would mess things up. She warned that she still might get a little weird every now and then, but that if I was willing to deal with that, she'd be willing to spend more time alone with me.

 

After that, I feel tons better. I'm not looking at spending my time trying to be patient while she tries to trust me enough to let me in. I'm just waiting for her arm to heal, and then we can start feeling out how big a deal her walls are gonna be. After the way she talked about it, I don't see it being anywhere near as big a roadblock as I thought. But even so, I'll still be willing to give her space and time to work through it, which she is committed to doing.

[missmarple]

I know you're not going to like this comment but all this doesn't sound genuine to me. I've been with my share of insecure/guarded/introverted guys (I swear they target me somehow..lol!) and your girl doesn't fall under any category that I've come accross. I've had many relationships in my long life and, frankly, I don't remember any guy, no matter how introverted he was, not to want to be around me and me having to actually ASK to, at least, meet once a week, especially in the first few months.

Her excuse about the pain (I do think it's an excuse, sorry) and the injured animal analogy, when she's done the same thing all the while you've been together, even when she was in no pain, just screams 'fake' to me. I think that, when the pain stops, something else will come along. I really hope I'm wrong because you sound like a nice guy with tons of patience and I don't think you deserve all this. Actually, I don't think anyone deserves to have to ask his g/f to spend at least a few hours one day a week together...it made me kinda sad reading that.

Anyway, I stand by what I said pages ago..I can't tell if she has so many issues that make it impossible to really have a relationship or if she's just using you. All I know is that there's no way I would stay with a guy like that, I'd rather be alone.

The only thing I can think of that you can do (since you're so determined to continue waiting for her) is to set a timeline. Don't tell her about it, just say it to yourself and stick to it...and, most of all, tell yourself that you deserve much more than what she's giving you..because I don't think that deep down you believe that you do or you'd have already left the building.

[Madamdiva007]

So first it's the pain that's keeping her away, then it's her emotional state, and now it's the pain again? But even with the pain she still is guarded it's just not as bad as what she originally told you?

 

I kind of feel like when her arm heals it's going to go back to her having these tremendous walls up that prevent you from getting in.

 

But wait, didn't you say you were making progress and she was beginning to open up to you? So if that's the case is the pain really as bad as she says it is?

 

Now I'm starting to get confused

[Batya33]

I think this is great advice and input, all of it but in particular about the timeline/deadline -and I would give it at most one more month.

 

And consider - with the weather getting cooler, are you ok with her behaving this way each time she has a bad cold/flu/paper cut? (cut me slack on the paper cut, ok?). This kind of pain is a part of life unfortunately so are you willing to let your life revolve around it? What happens when you start making plans to go out with others and her arm hurts or she has the sniffles - are you ok with having her cancel at the last minute?

 

I also think you should be relieved because -whether these are excuses are not -she gave you a lot of valuable information about her values and priorities as far as wanting to be in control and have lots of space from you. If it's true then you can now decide whether, if this never changed, how long you'd be willing to stay (the deadline) and if it's not true then you know that she's using it as an excuse knowing from your past behavior that you'll stick around anyway when she's in the mood to hang out (or if she has a power outage, etc and can't play her game).

 

I also agree 100% that you deserve better.

[chewy21]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the feedback.

 

I'm relieved that I don't have to wait much longer to know for sure if she's being genuine and honest. I'm willing to trust her until I can know for sure. But if things don't start changing once her arm heals up, then we're gonna have another discussion about it. And if things don't go favorably, I'm not gonna have much choice but to let her go. I'm optimistic, though, and I think things will improve. I think she understood how seriously what happened the other day affected me and how close I came to ending it out of frustration and exasperation.

 

I know you guys aren't big supporters of the idea of having to ask for some time together, but her schedule is much busier than mine. I'm free anytime but Monday thru Friday, 8-5. Most of my hobbies take place at home, and I'm hardly ever doing anything that can't be interrupted. She's got school, and since she is a computer programming major, she has lots of homework. Lately she's been playing games instead of doing her homework (she still gets it done, she just procrastinates), and she says that's because her arm hurts so much that she can't handle concentrating and just wants to take her mind off it for a while.

 

She went to the doctor yesterday and got some strong muscle relaxers that have been working great, and today she's sounded happier and more like she did before she hurt it.

 

The cherry on top is that she invited me over for lunch today, without me having to ask. I made the sandwiches for us, but she's not supposed to be using her arm, and I (clearly) don't mind anyway. We watched some tv on the couch while we ate, and, as has become customary lately, a hug and kiss before I left.

 

So I really think it is the pain, and her frustration with that, that's been causing the problems and made her so frustrated the other day. I feel kinda bad for not knowing this whole time that she was in constant pain, but to be fair, she was isolating herself and pretending not to be, so how could I? Still, I was more worried about why she didn't wanna see me, and I thought her mood was just an indicator of some kind of aversion to me or spending time with me.

 

And it makes sense that before that she was just nervous and, yes, guarded. She injured it about three weeks ago, which means she's been hurt for a pretty substantial portion of our relationship. And all of the advances have been pretty recent, most of them since she's been injured.

 

But, regardless, time will tell at this point. If things start going well once she's healed up, then great. I'll have been right to trust her, and I'll trust her more because she told me the truth about what was going on. If nothing changes and another excuse takes its place, my patience will have been greatly diminished, most likely to the point of ending the relationship, or at least putting a lot of distance between us in order for her to work out what exactly it is she wants out of us.

 

Thanks again for your thoughts, guys and girls. It really means a lot to me.

[Ms Darcy]

I told you she led off with excuses about her arm and the pain she's in being reasons she didn't want to spend time with me. I countered by bringing up that this has been an ongoing thing, and that's what made her break down and tell me that she was scared because she liked me so much and I was pushing my way in.

 

She said that while that was true, mostly at first, it really is the pain more than anything else now. She was tired, hurting, and frustrated, and I obviously wasn't taking the pain as a real answer, so she just blurted that out.

 

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to discern that she lied about the whole "I'm scared" thing.

 

And we called it.

 

And she's still lying to you.

 

Three more factos for the day.

[chewy21]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to discern that she lied about the whole "I'm scared" thing.

 

And we called it.

 

And she's still lying to you.

 

Three more factos for the day.

 

I'm stupid. (not a "rocket scientist")

I'm naive. (still being lied to)

And you told me so. ("we called it")

 

Thanks, and congratulations.

[chewy21]

And we called it.

 

I wanna talk about just this small sentence here for a second, split into two parts.

 

"WE"

 

Meaning you feel that you and the other posters in this thread who have advocated for me to take a course of action that I've given reasons not to take, are united against me and my position on the matter. It's a mob mentality of sorts, and it serves to make you feel justified in dog-piling me, because you've got a majority on your side. It also serves as a deterrent to anyone else who might agree with my position, meaning they're way less likely to post in a thread where everyone's arguing against them from the outset.

 

"CALLED IT"

 

You know best. And you'll twist and bend any and all words to make that so. And if that fails, you'll just assert things without any sort of backup, other than you just know. At this point, it becomes less about an honest analysis of the information, and more confirmation bias. Regardless of what I post, until I do whatever it is you're advocating, you won't be satisfied, and you'll keep looking for a way to be right.

 

I've said many times that I appreciate ALL advice given to me. I don't act on all of it (maybe not any of it), but I do appreciate the time, effort, and consideration. Your opinion becomes a small voice in my head, and it does make me think. If I post something contrary to what you've posted, it's because I want to learn. I have my own positions on a lot of what's going on, and so I share the reasons I believe the things I do. If someone is able to change my mind, I'm open to it.

 

But posts like these are petty flamebait. They add no value to the discussion whatsoever, and serve to diminish any and all advice you've already given. You all can do better than this. And if you can't, then don't clutter the thread with useless posts that simply play to the majority. You're not in need of support. If you are, go start a thread about it, and leave this one alone, please.

[Ms Darcy]

I think the importance of saying posters identified it was a lie is that you chose to believe it. It demonstrates that people who are have no dog in this fight are able to have a perspective that you don't since you are committed to keep at it.

 

"We told you" is another way of saying "you should start listening and taking the advice." If someone lays out the red flags of running towards a bright shiny object for you, and you continue to run towards the bright shiny object, run smack dab into one of those red flags, and don't acknowledge that those red flags were presented, of course someone will point out those red flags were pointed out from jump.

 

So then the bigger question is why are you ignoring the red flags.

 

And you actually aren't open to change your mind. You even said that you what folks say isn't going to change your mind.

 

If you are going to solicit feedback on an open forum, you have to man up and accept that some of it is going to be what is in the range of what you'd like to hear.

 

BTW, I think you have transferred your anger. You should be angry at her for lying to you.

[missmarple]

How did she injure her arm and what exactly is the problem? Is it broken?