She's guarded and afraid of losing me

[chewy21]

If you'll notice the OP, it clearly states that I started this thread looking for advice from people who are or were in my shoes or hers, so that I could better handle something with which I have little experience. That's why I'm soliciting advice here, not because I don't know if I want to keep the relationship going. I knew the answer to that before I posted.

 

It'd be like if I were looking for advice on how to build a boat, and the people offering that advice instead focused on whether or not I should build a boat. That's irrelevant. If you know how to build a boat, you can help. If you don't, then you can't help, and shouldn't get involved. Simple. Yet people whose opinions I respect posted anyway, so rather than ignore them, I explained my position, while keeping it clear from the outset that my mind was made up about staying with her, and that whether or not to stay was not the issue.

 

Whether or not red flags have been pointed out doesn't matter, since if/when I do smack into one, I'm not blaming anybody here. So there's no reason, other than self-satisfaction, to mention that you told me so.

 

I'm not angry. I'm disappointed, and a little let down. But I have no reason to be angry.

 

Now let's look at what you're claiming she was lying about: her being guarded, and that being the reason she wasn't wanting to spend much time with me.

 

That wasn't a lie. She was worried about screwing things up with me, because her being guarded makes her anxious and unsure what to do when we're together. That, coupled with the fact that she really likes me. She was worried she'd screw it up. And considering how guarded she is, it's probably a fear that stems from past experiences with other men becoming frustrated and leaving her. Not saying it's their fault, but I'm sure it's happened all the same. She could see that there's a chance the same thing would happen with me and she wanted to prevent that. We got along great when we were playing video games, so she chose to hide behind that.

 

This was up until her arm got injured. It was once that started happening that I started offering to take care of her, that I saw her when she was crying, and we got a little closer. We had our first kiss after she hurt her arm. And though she was still reluctant, we started spending more time together, and becoming more intimate. Since then, she said it's been her thing with pain, and how she doesn't want anybody around while it's happening. I didn't know until very recently that she was in almost constant pain, and when I found out, I urged her to move her doctor's appointment up, since it was still over a week away, which she did.

 

Does that mean that she's not guarded anymore? Of course not. But she's willing to work on it now. I think I proved to her how much I care the night that I came over after she told me not to. She told me on the phone yesterday that she was glad I did that. She was still uncomfortable with me seeing her cry because she's just not used to it, but she said other than that it was kinda nice to have someone there who wouldn't judge her for it.

 

The reason she ended up saying on the phone during our fight that it was because she was scared of losing me was my fault. She told me first thing that it was because she was in pain, but I kept saying that no, this has been going on for a while. It didn't make sense to me, and I wasn't accepting that answer. She was hurting and upset, so she just kind of blurted that out. It wasn't a lie, because that's why she was reluctant before her arm got injured, and I'm sure it's a small, secondary part of why she hasn't wanted to since.

 

Then this MMO came out, and she had another good reason to hide behind us playing games together. That's when we started spending less time together, and that's when I started getting frustrated, because things were going so well, I thought, and then it's like we were back to square one.

 

Maybe I did a poor job of explaining this in my previous posts. If so, I apologize. Either way, no, she hasn't been caught in a lie, so there's no reason to act like I should be angry with her.

[chewy21]

How did she injure her arm and what exactly is the problem? Is it broken?

 

She flew home to Arizona last month for a weekend and drove back the car she bought, a 1998 Saturn SL2, I believe. It's very used, but runs pretty good. Once she got it back, of course, she started finding out there were problems with it. The most relevant one is that it doesn't always like to shift out of park. Something with the starter or solenoid, not sure, but she doesn't have the money for the parts to repair it at the moment, so she's having to perform a complicated series of actions, involving reaching under the dash cover and pulling the shifter back at the same time.

 

One morning about three weeks ago, she was late for class. As luck would have it, her car decided not to shift out of park. She kept trying for thirty minutes, and missed her class because of it. We've all been there: frustrated at an inanimate object and taking out your aggression on it. Her way of doing that was to yank repeatedly on the shifter with her right hand. Somehow in doing so, she managed to pull most of the muscles, ligaments, and tendons in her forearm.

 

Before yesterday, they told her to just keep it in a brace, not to move it side-to-side, ice it, and elevate it when it starts swelling. She's pretty stubborn, though, so instead of giving it rest, she kept going like normal (she did actually wear the brace, though, and kept it in a sling for a few days). Needless to say, it didn't get any better, which is why she had to go back to the doctor yesterday. It was getting swollen again, and she had bruising from trying to move it around inside the brace. He called in a favor for her and got her into physical therapy right after her visit, and he also wrote her a prescription for some stronger muscle relaxers (she had been using the ones from her emergency supply for her back - she also has lifelong back problems stemming from some form of scoliosis, as I understand it) and also some cortisone in pill form.

 

The new meds helped her last night and today, which is why she invited me over for lunch earlier, since she finally had a day free of pain.

[missmarple]

Her arm situation does sound bad. Let's see what happens when she stops hurting. Keep us posted.

[chewy21]

Her arm situation does sound bad. Let's see what happens when she stops hurting. Keep us posted.

 

Definitely will. Thanks.

[chewy21]

It's been a little over a week since I last posted here, but I wanted to give an update.

 

Things went well this week. She seemed to be more open than she has in the past, and has started calling me babe and baby a lot more often. It still felt like she was holding back from spending time with me in person, but I felt that communication was getting better between us, and I noticed more of an effort to suppress her knee-jerk reactions when we had personal conversations.

 

Saturday we had a bit of a falling out. I had suggested the night before that she could come "de-stress" over at my place on Saturday. I offered to buy lunch, and since we're both kinda nerds, watch Star Wars (one movie or the trilogy, whatever she felt like). She sat there for a second and said "Maybe. I got some homework to get done, but it isn't much. We'll see."

 

Since our last argument, I've been trying to keep myself in check. So I tried not to get my hopes up about it, because I felt for sure there would be some excuse. But I couldn't help it. I started looking forward to her coming over to hang out.

 

As we usually do, we texted each other when we woke up. I told her I was gonna go run some errands and give her time to get her homework done. She said she wasn't gonna do it right now, that I should get on Skype and play the mmo with her. So I reluctantly agreed. After about thirty minutes of sitting there not saying much, I got frustrated and said I was gonna go get something to eat and run my errands. She seemed sad that I was leaving, but said she'd text me later. After I hung up the call I texted her something like this:

 

"Hey. Sorry if I was short with you. This is just... kinda dumb. It's Saturday afternoon, and we live 5 minutes from each other. Yet we're talking on the internet and not even saying much of anything."

 

She didn't respond for a while. As I tend to do, I got a little worried. So I sent a few more text messages to the effect of "we kinda need to talk about this" and "sucks that you're ignoring me", blah blah blah.

 

After waiting a couple of hours, I tried calling her. It went to voicemail. I logged onto the game and saw she was still playing, so I knew she was okay and not busy. So I just sent her one last text saying "Really sucks that you won't talk to me. I guess we're both pretty mad. So call me when you feel like you're ready to talk."

 

About 30 minutes later she calls me, and the first thing she says is "Eight text messages??" I told her I tried to call but she didn't answer, and she said her phone was under her blanket on the bed and she couldn't hear it. So I kinda overreacted when I couldn't get ahold of her, and I apologized for that. But, to me, the way to approach that situation isn't to come into it swinging like she did. The right way to answer would have been "Hey, sorry, my phone was under the covers and I didn't hear it." Not jumping down my throat right off the bat.

 

So I told her we really need to talk about spending some more time together. I explained that I've been trying, but it's hard, and I still get my hopes up and feel rejected every time she chooses not to spend time with me. She said she didn't know what I wanted, did I want us to hang out every day, every other day, did I want her to quit the game, play something else, etc. I told her no, I just want some time alone her in person every now and then. So she got really snippy and said "Fine. Let's go do something now." I said "Fine, what do you wanna do?"

 

"I don't effing care."

 

"Good. Then come over and watch effing Star Wars with me."

 

"Fine. I'm gonna go get in the shower."

 

"Bye."

 

Hung up. And I started mentally preparing myself for several hours of her sulking and being sarcastic.

 

But when she showed up, she had apparently cooled off. She could tell I was upset, and started trying to cheer me up, making funny faces and telling me to breathe. When I said we still needed to talk, she nodded her head, said she was sorry she blew up, but she really didn't understand what I wanted because it felt like I was always wanting to hang out. I told her I kinda was always wanting that, because we never do. She said that she counts the times I bring over dinner. I told her I don't, because yeah, we're eating in the same room, but that's it. I sit on her bed behind her while she sits at her desk. After a while I get up, we kiss, and I leave. Doesn't count.

 

She said her roommates (she lives with a gay couple) get away with being recluses because a) they live in the same apartment, and b) because they have a date night every Sunday night. She asked if I would wanna try doing that?

 

I immediately agreed. I told her I didn't want much because I knew she was still struggling with her arm pain, and being guarded even beyond that, and that this would let us ease into it. She said it'd be great for her because it's a set date and time and she can make sure she has everything done beforehand.

 

So rather than staying to watch Star Wars, she came over last night for our first date night. Cherry cokes, Skittles, Kettle Corn, and Sour Patch Kids. And Star Wars, the whole trilogy.

 

And it was really nice. We cuddled, she let me rub her sore arm/wrist/hand, and she dozed off on my shoulder for a few minutes during Return of the Jedi. A few kisses here and there, but no intense making out. I'm sure all that's on the way, but for now I'm just glad we finally have a guaranteed night to spend with each other on a regular basis.

 

So things aren't perfect, but they're looking a whole lot better. And I could tell she enjoyed herself, because she was all smiles and we held hands on the ride back to her place. Plan for next Sunday night is for us to cook something together (her choice, since I picked this time). So we'll see how it goes from there.

[Batya33]

It sounds like you are comfortable with all you have to do to get her to spend time with you in person. Many school mornings I have to cajole/convince/beg my 5 year old into getting up, getting dressed ("but my finger hurts!/I don't like that shirt!"), eating breakfast ("eggs again????") and leaving our house to get to the bus stop on time ("I don't want to go to school/pick me up from school after one minute, ok?/I want to stay home"). 99.9% of the time he gets on the bus no problem, I typically get a big hug, often he says "I'm sorry I yelled" or "I like you!".

 

This entire process takes about 40-45 minutes after which I work off my stress in a "power walk". I choose to go through this on those days because (1) he is only 5; (2) He is my son and I love him to pieces; (3) he has to go to school; (4) and, bonus- he is typically a very thoughtful, loving, smart and funny person It is more than worth it. I don't even have to do that balancing (well, sometimes, quickly in my head when there's a bad meltdown.

 

This person you describe is an adult but her behavior in reacting to your invitations to get together reminds me so much of my son's.

It sounds like the benefits of her spending time with you alone is worth all you go through - the cajoling, convincing, analyzing, texting, talking to get her to be in the same physical space with you for a date. I would continue to check in with yourself on a regular basis to make sure you are not building resentment about all you do as compared to her (she just shows up or allows you to show up where she is) because that can be poison for your insides and if you aren't extremely honest with yourself there will come that last straw time where you blow up at her (or get depressed, anger turned inward) at what seems to be a relatively small matter. You're entitled to spend your time taking out full-page ads and whatever else you need to do to get this person to be in the same room with you but for your own health and safety (physical and emotional) make sure you are very honest with yourself about whether it's worth it.

[chewy21]

Thanks, Bayta. That's definitely sound advice, and I'll keep an eye on myself to make sure I don't have the rose colored glasses on to keep from seeing what's there. It should help to keep in mind that, for whatever reason, she's just not as emotionally open as I am, and things like this are a struggle for her in that way.

 

And yeah, to me it's definitely worth it. I doubt I'll have to do much more of that from here on out, as it seems I've broken through another "barrier" by making her see I'm serious about spending time with her and that I don't wanna keep her at arm's length. Seems like that's maybe something she's used to, as I remember early on she said something to the effect of "you're so nice to me; I'm not used to that".

 

At any rate, we now have standing plans to see each other every week on Sundays. That's a relief to me because I don't have to put an invitation out there every time, only to feel rejected when she declines. I've also made sure to let her know that even though we have time set aside to see each other, I'm open to being spontaneous. She seems to have taken that on board, because last night she asked if I would go grocery shopping with her this evening. That might sound kinda dumb, but grocery shopping together fairly early in the relationship has always been something I enjoy, not sure why. I guess it gives a glimpse into what they like, and I get a chance to tell them what I like, and so on. So that should be fun.

 

Thanks again, Bayta. And your son sounds like a sweet kid.

[Batya33]

I don't think her issue is about being emotionally open -I think this is just about her choosing to do other things rather than make plans with you until you somehow convince her to make the plan and then she'll go along with it. I'm not saying she is an extrovert but I don't think the issue in making and keeping plans with you is about emotional barriers. It's far simpler. She moves towards pleasure and away from pain and she has other things she'd prefer to do rather than spend time alone with you. Then when she sees that there is a risk that you might get really upset or potentially walk away for good or for a good long while, she'll choose to spend time with you to keep that from happening. Keep it simple in your mind -avoid the psychological explanations about "emotional barriers" - leave that to an objective professional. It sounds like her arm is ok otherwise she wouldn't want to go grocery shopping.

 

I think it's a great idea that you have a standing Sunday night plan. If I were you I would do absolutely nothing other than confirm the exact time with her and if you get any push back from her about it just back off and say nicely but firmly "I'm not going to try to convince you to spend time with me if that doesn't sound fun to you -this time I am going to make other plans and if you change your mind about next Sunday let me know - I will keep next Sunday open until Friday". That way you break the cycle. Of course if you remain ok with chasing her and convincing her to see you then keep that up (as long as you don't feel resentful about it).

[chewy21]

You could well be right about her choosing to do other things, rather than it being the fault of her emotionally closed nature. However, this is just something we're going to have to disagree on. I could just take it for what it is and assume she's just as open emotionally as I am, but considering all that's happened and what she's told me, I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and believe her for the time being.

 

And sure, while we have standing plans for Sundays, I understand that she may still put up some resistance, and the way you suggested I handle it is more or less how I was planning to handle it if it happens. It's one thing to decline a spur-of-the-moment suggestion, but it's another to break standing plans. That reaction would be the best one, I think, to both give me some space from the situation and make her realize that I'm not going to do a rain dance every time she flakes to get her to keep our plans.

 

From what it sounds like, she hasn't gone grocery shopping since she hurt her arm, so it's more of a need than a want. It's far from healed, but with physical therapy it is getting better. Thing is, she really can't push a shopping cart, so that's the utilitarian excuse for us going together. Still, I'm glad she asked me instead of her roommate, who I'm sure she would normally ask in this situation.

 

Baby steps. Good things come to those who wait, I've often heard, and this seems like a really good thing, assuming I can practice my patience. So I'm gonna try.

 

Thanks again.

[Batya33]

I agree that patience is a virtue. So is taking care of oneself and having boundaries that reflect healthy self-esteem. I don't suggest she is emotionally open -what I do suggest is that you take it far more at face value and far more simply that she is making certain choices and not others, including -when it applies -the choice to close herself off to seeing you (or strongly resist) rather than choose to be open to seeing you -whether that is because of emotions or otherwise. She is not lying to you, rather she is making excuses whether that excuse is a hurt arm or a "I don't feel like it because I want to be alone". She cannot control how fast her arm heals (but now we know that that is not an obstacle to seeing you). She can control whether she chooses her desire to be alone over her desire to be with you just like we all can.

 

The more you treat her like she has some emotional issue that she cannot control the more you're going to lie to yourself and then have a really hard time facing the truth later because you'll be even more attached and more resentful. Start practicing it now- remind yourself each and every time she is making a choice and she can make a different choice and then decide if you're ok with that or otherwise.

 

I think it's nice of you to push her shopping cart if her arm hurts too much to do so.

 

I think your approach about Sunday is great.

[chewy21]

I don't suggest she is emotionally open -what I do suggest is that you take it far more at face value and far more simply that she is making certain choices and not others, including -when it applies -the choice to close herself off to seeing you (or strongly resist) rather than choose to be open to seeing you -whether that is because of emotions or otherwise. She is not lying to you, rather she is making excuses whether that excuse is a hurt arm or a "I don't feel like it because I want to be alone". She cannot control how fast her arm heals (but now we know that that is not an obstacle to seeing you). She can control whether she chooses her desire to be alone over her desire to be with you just like we all can.

 

All I'm saying is that if making those choices is more difficult for her, for whatever reason, I should be mindful of that instead of assuming that opening up is as easy for her as it is for me, when that doesn't seem to be the case. See, I tend to use myself as a measuring stick for others a lot of the time, so thinking "this is easy for me, why's it so hard for you" tends to color my reactions. She's told me why it's hard for her, and I'm choosing to believe her.

 

As for self-esteem, though I rarely brag or gloat, I'm aware that I'm a worthwhile person. I'm attractive, intelligent, and I have a lot to bring to a relationship. My choices may seem to reflect a low level of self-worth in some cases, when in actuality it's more that I know a good thing when I see it. I know for a fact that if Toni and I were to break up I could move on and meet someone else. That's never been a problem for me. But I'm also aware of my tastes, which are ever being refined.

 

Toni fits into more of those categories than anyone I've ever met. For example, girl gamers are pretty rare in and of themselves. Girl gamers who I think are pretty are even rarer. Girl gamers who are pretty, smart, share my sense of humor, are single, and reciprocate my interest in them... you see where I'm going with this. So that's why I'm willing to jump through a few extra hoops and take some extra time with her. It's not because I think she's my only option, it's that she's such a good option, particularly for where I'm located geographically. That's to say nothing of that ineffable "click" that you have with some people.

 

Regardless, I agree, I need to stay appraised of what I am and am not willing to handle, and be aware of any building resentment. She may be a great match for me, but if just spending time together gets so difficult as to be an ongoing issue, then none of that really matters. It becomes like window shopping at that point- sure, it's great to imagine having it, but once you realize you can't take it home, there's no point wasting your time. I'll take what you've said on board, and thanks again.

[Batya33]

I agree that you shouldn't evaluate people by your own standards of how you would behave and I agree that some people take longer to warm up than other people. It might be harder for her to open up but if she cares about your feelings (I mean in a friendship way -let's put romance aside for now) then she will behave in a reliable, thoughtful and considerate way. She will tell you if she needs space in advance, she will explain that it has nothing to do with you, she will not use homework/gaming/her injured arm as an excuse or want to subject you to the back and forth stuff. And she will want you to see through her actions that she is making a reciprocal effort to spend time with you despite her apparent emotional issues.

[ForestofDreams]

I didn't read all the posts on here but based off of your original post and the ones following it I think you two can work out this issue. I think way too many people on here tell people to just give up and find someone else. Sometimes I wonder if the whole world followed enotalone's advice we'd all be single. For most of my questions I asked about guys I've dated I've always had at least 5 people tell me to dump him and find someone better. I think all relationships come with their bumps, and it's those bumps that can make the relationship stronger if both people want to. There should be more advice about how to work on things, and less about throwing the towel.

 

Anyway, I think she's kind of nervous (either that or she's really shy!). I think she likes you a lot, but she has some walls put up. I think the whole ice cream thing was ..she wanted to see you, but maybe she was kind of tired. Maybe she just wasn't in the best mood. People say all kinds of things when they arn't feeling good so I wouldn't worry about it. Is this the girl you've been dating for 7 months? She sounds a bit confused (not about you, but about herself). Like she wants to break down the walls, but doesn't know if she should (or maybe she doesn't know how). I've put up walls in my dating days and it was usually because I was shy and had nothing to do with whether I liked the guy. I had no idea how to get rid of the walls. I just sort of tried with baby steps. Like a tiny effort from me, seemed like a huge effort because breaking down a wall is REALLY hard! And then to maintain it is even harder. But as long as you guys like each other, this will fade in time (it did for me anyway!)

 

She sounds like she has some trust issues (which is pretty common). I'd suggest something really random....try entrusting her with something. Does she know how to drive at all? I know this sounds random, but if she doesn't teach her how to drive with your car (or something similar with something she doesn't know how to do). It will show her you trust her with your car, and it will make her trust you in return. It can be anything really, like teaching her how to do something, it can be fun, and break down some of the walls she's got.

 

Hope it all works out!

[weathergirl]

ForestofDreams...just wanted to say thanks for bumping this thread. I had not read "this" thread before, but "have" read later threads created by the OP about his relationship... but this particular thread served to put many things about the OP's situation in perspective for me.....So thanks again!

 

Hope things work out for him too!!!

 

GO SEAHAWKS!!!!

[Hazyillusions]

The 8 txt msgs and a phone call borders on crazy. Next time text someone once or twice max, any more and you look needy and then completely psycho.

 

I've read the whole thread. It seems that she's keeping you as the backup, for ego boosts but her lying and actions suggest the truth; she doesn't want anything real with you. No one acts like this, even with issues.

I had major trust issues in the past and I never acted that way (not wanting to spend face to face time) with a guy I was really into, bt I sure was reluctant to make plans with guys I wasn't interested in. She sees u occasionally to keep you reeled in.

 

Hopefully you'll realise this very soon. You're really bending over backwards and need to get a backbone. I doubt she respects you and you're a sweet guy who shouldn't be toyed with.

 

I know I'm being blunt bt you need honesty.

[unscene72]

Sounds like the young female version of a completely unavailable man I heard heard female versions exist .. I've been here with a guy in our 40s there are loads of similarities this is going to be a long hard road filled with pain if I'm right .. The lack of intimacy ability to get close be vulnerable is pretty captain obvious ...now I have been here before and the answer is ITS IMPOSSIBLE to fix if it's a full blown emotionally unavailable situation without the person attending counselling ... My ex finally admitted he knew he needed counselling after break up he tried to come crawling back a year later did he go ..no ... Did I expect him to ... No !

 

I don't know how anyone could be happy with seeing their object of affection once every other week .. Your expectations have been managed down massively it's a very clever game these people play... then when YOU show vulnerability with the text messages she's mean and critical whilst you are being kind and patient with her issues .. She's also gas lighting with words which is what they do being young she's not great in it yet

 

The video gaming is another red flag how I relate this to the above .. now I know a lot of people game and are addicted to it but EUs purposely fill their time with work hobbies and activities they can lock themselves up in a cave to avoid having to interact in a normal relationship and basically she could easily game in the same room as you .. But she doesn't .. Even a friend would do that

 

It is a very crumbs on the floor situation and after a few months I will be surprised if you don't start thinking about the facts if you dated someone else they actually might want to spend time with you do normal things and be intimate vulnerable etc so it just depends how much time you want to waste until that's essentially what you start wanting .. And be warned if it is this you are going to get really messed up in the process and it might affect YOUR future relationships !

[daisybush]

Becoz she love yo so much bcoz she is afraid of loosing you, you must understand this feelings and dnt do anything which let her to think of such things.

[chewy21]

Thanks for the replies, but this is a very old thread. Before the bump two days ago, the last post was back in September. We're well clear of these issues now.