My experience with attraction: can anyone relate?

[annie24]

If you want sex without the relationship and emotions attached, just pay for it. It's the world's oldest profession for a reason.

[Blue Spiral]

If you want sex without the relationship and emotions attached, just pay for it. It's the world's oldest profession for a reason.

 

Pay for it? But I just said that I don't want to date!

 

Seriously: I'm a law-abiding citizen, I don't intend on moving/traveling to an area where it's legal, I'm too health-conscious...and, most importantly, I'm too cheap.

 

Now, in the future, if there are affordable robotic women of some sort, it'll be a different story. I hope I live long enough to see that, just for curiosity purposes. That's when we'll really find out how many men genuinely want a serious, emotional, monogamous relationship, and how many are like me. (I think there are a lot of men like me, but they need regular sex, so they try to get it from a relationship, taking the bad with the good.) 22nd century internet archaeologists, please take note: I'm guessing 80% like me and 20% not. If I'm right, please laud me posthumously.

 

Topic! A woman actually texted me, today (I usually have to initiate), but she was not talking about sexual stuff, and seemed confused when I wasn't all that into responding. She's a very nice person, but she's rejected me a few times now, so I'm afraid I'm done expending effort on her. If she were attracted to me, she would have been more responsive.

[itsallgrand]

Longer term, how do you think this will play out for you?

 

I can understand the lack of motivation right now. You are still young. Still handsome. Still able to reel in the FWBs easily enough with almost no effort.

 

What about later?

 

What kind of future do you see for yourself? Curious.

 

There is this one old man I see sometimes. (I work in a gritty part of my city). He shuffles at pension time, lady in tow, box of beer and he buys her some groceries too in the morning. Pretty clear what is happening there: when his money comes in, she is around, spends a few nights. When the money is gone, she is gone too. And it's the old man, shuffling alone. Ok it's not only one old man I see like this; but this particular one has that something different. You can tell, from how he is with her in public, he isn't particularly proud of what is happening. Maybe she is a hooker, more likely not a straight up hooker. More likely, a rat who is poor and broken, and some of the men she has sex with have pity on her and buy her a few little things. Like breakfast.

 

All I mean is....what happens when you get older? What happens when the context starts changing?

[annie24]

I think you have to pay for it, one way or another. Either in cash, or with time and attention and taking her out on dates. You're not too keen on the paying attention and listening to her talk about her feelings. Are you going to meet a nymphomaniac who can't get enough sex with you but wants nothing more? Likely not. But you can dream I guess!

[annie24]

link removed

 

this just came out this week. Thought you might enjoy it.

[Blue Spiral]

Longer term, how do you think this will play out for you?

 

I can understand the lack of motivation right now. You are still young. Still handsome. Still able to reel in the FWBs easily enough with almost no effort.

 

What about later?

 

What kind of future do you see for yourself? Curious.

 

First of all: thank you, I am surprisingly good-looking. Second of all: it takes effort, believe me. That said...

 

Basically, it'll work until it doesn't, and then I go back to being celibate. I enjoy being alone, so that part isn't an issue. I'd like to get into some sort of poly situation, but my social skills aren't the best, I can't even deal with one woman at a time. (And some people wonder why guys are so into porn and video games--that's what we had back when women were ignoring us, and it's what we'll have when you start ignoring us again.)

 

As for your story...well, if both parties are getting what they want, more power to them. I don't know if that's for me, though.

[Blue Spiral]

I think you have to pay for it, one way or another.

 

It's nice to see someone admit that.

 

And, as for the monogamy link: yes, it's been obsolete for several thousand years, now.

[Throwaway999]

There are no guarantees. Louis CK has a bit about how, even if you do find your "soulmate," and you both live happily to a ripe old age and spend many lovely years together, the best case scenario is that you get to watch them die! Maybe the old man in your example had a sweetheart back in the day, and she went way before him.

 

Not trying to be negative, but saying that you need to find somebody because otherwise "who's going to wipe your drool when you're 90?" isn't exactly a foolproof strategy.

[Blue Spiral]

There are no guarantees. Louis CK has a bit about how, even if you do find your "soulmate," and you both live happily to a ripe old age and spend many lovely years together, the best case scenario is that you get to watch them die! Maybe the old man in your example had a sweetheart back in the day, and she went way before him.

 

Not trying to be negative, but saying that you need to find somebody because otherwise "who's going to wipe your drool when you're 90?" isn't exactly a foolproof strategy.

 

I've had people make that argument to me, but it's been about children. "Who's going to take care of you in your old age??" I think people should have children because they want them, not because they need future financial resources...

[Throwaway999]

I've had people make that argument to me, but it's been about children. "Who's going to take care of you in your old age??" I think people should have children because they want them, not because they need future financial resources...

 

I agree.

 

I got to this thread late, I actually wanted to respond to your post that started it off but I threw that previous post in first because I reached the end of the thread...(still typing...)

[Throwaway999]

Has anyone else experienced something similar to this?

 

Sorry, I am late to the party.

 

First of all, Blue Spiral, I've got to say that I really enjoy your posts on here. You are a good writer, articulate, and your posts are usually entertaining!

 

Second of all, I've gotta express my surprise that you are a football fan! Never would have pegged you for that from your writing. I guess I had seen you mention before that you didn't conform to more traditional masculine roles or something like that? I don't know, just not what I pictured.

 

Anyway, as to the substance of your initial post - a bit cynical, perhaps, but I don't think you are particularly wrong where attraction is concerned. "Men do the picking, women do the choosing" is a cliche for a reason. If there's no initial attraction there, then you aren't going to convince her otherwise no matter what you try or how many dinners you pay for. Meanwhile, a guy she does find attractive will find it (and her, maybe) easy. Personally, I have also usually waited until I find a woman who is actually into me rather than trying to "convince" one that I am so awesome. The women who actually like you are a lot more fun to be around! You are also right about another thing - what women say they want, and what they actually respond to, are often two entirely different things.

 

Having said all that, I'm not buying THIS:

 

Oh, I'm definitely being lazy, as I ultimately don't care about it that much. I've been meaning to write that post for ages, but I couldn't be bothered enough to get around to it. Some people here seem to think I'm some sort of raging anti-women crusader, but the truth is, the little bit I read/post on ENA is the only time I think about women in a non-sexual way, angrily or otherwise. For a half-hour a day, I come on here and think, "Why am I not getting laid nonstop? That's weird, I need to figure that out." And then I go back to the part of my life that's actually important, and I stay there until the next day.

 

Sorry, dude, but if I may butcher Shakespeare, the velociraptor doth protest too much, methinks. I mean, you claim that you only care about sex yet you say that you come here to this forum and post to try to figure out why you aren't getting laid nonstop. Now, this is a "relationship forum" and it is "E Not Alone" not "E Not Getting Any". There are plenty of pickup-related forums where you could be honing your tricks and techniques for getting women into bed. Or, you could just spend this half hour a day on PoF, OKC, or Match trolling for new hookups. But instead, you come here, where people talk about relationships.

 

You claim that you only want sex, but when people throw out the perfectly rational idea of hiring a sex worker you have plenty of excuses why you wouldn't do that (too expensive, worried about your health, don't want to travel to where it is legal, don't want to break the law where you are, etc. etc. etc.).

 

You list your reasons for not wanting to get married, or why you would make a poor husband, and frankly... they don't seem that out of line from what I see in plenty of guys. Except that you are more self-aware, perhaps? And if you read any Dan Savage, you'd know that open relationships are not some bizarre, unheard of thing. You could probably find a woman who would put up with some of your faults and who might even be up for the idea of an open relationship.

 

I understand not wanting to get married or have kids, but you can still have a connection with a human being of the opposite sex that involves sex outside of the institution of marriage. You claim that you are just too passive and lazy, and you keep reiterating that you really don't care that much. But you sure seem to come on here a lot, and post some very well-written things articulating your positions, that seem to involve a lot of thought on your part.

 

You talk about how you are not social, have few friends, etc., and don't want them. But again, you sure come on here and post a lot, looking to interact with other humans. Are the people on ENA "friends"? Nah, but clearly there is some kind of a need there that you are servicing.

 

You've got all these rules and criteria and excuses and things that you say you don't want to do, and conveniently, if you follow all of these rules and use all these excuses and never, ever do anything you claim you don't want to do, then you are never going to have to interact with any women. Hell, you probably aren't going to get laid, either, and that's what you claim to want.

 

So sorry, all due respect, but I'm not buyin' it. It feels like you are trying to convince yourself.

[pl3asehelp]

Short version is it took you forever to get your first girlfriend, she hurt you, and your response was to change who you are. I predict another momentus change in your future.

 

Dude up there ^ nailed a few specifics that didn't add up either.

[itsallgrand]

There are no guarantees. Louis CK has a bit about how, even if you do find your "soulmate," and you both live happily to a ripe old age and spend many lovely years together, the best case scenario is that you get to watch them die! Maybe the old man in your example had a sweetheart back in the day, and she went way before him.

 

Not trying to be negative, but saying that you need to find somebody because otherwise "who's going to wipe your drool when you're 90?" isn't exactly a foolproof strategy.

 

I remember that bit. And how cruel to use Louise C.K. against me. (kidding, it was a good point).

 

The old man probably is a widower. I only used that example because to me, it is less an example of "oh look at what happens when people don't pair up!", and more an example of what happens when people give up. The old man makes me sad; I doubt he is a bad person. More like a lonely one.

 

Some good points in your other post, too.

[Piep]

Lol, trust me when you really REALLY fall in love with a girl you'll just know it and it won't bother you even if you can't have her. It will be a person you will want to be with 24/7 and cheating won't even be in your mind. True love transcends relationships, marriage or owning someone or something, it's a genuine care for another person, at the core of how she is and how you connect not a walking vagina for you to stick your wee wee into.

[ycmanvs]

There are plenty of women around who share the OP's point of view, at least on the East Coast, mainly in big cities, like NY. Most of my friends, when we were in our 20's and 30's did not see the point of getting married. Casual sex was never a problem and we even shared partners based on what skills we liked...and even compared notes, etc.

I think if he really wanted to find some FWB's he would be able to do so. No need for sex workers. Also, there are tons of recently divorced women that just want to have fun...

[Blue Spiral]

Good morning, everyone. I'm awake, I'm listening to Journey ("Stone in Love"), and I'm killing time until the Chive posts their Hump Day pictures. Let's relationship!

 

Second of all, I've gotta express my surprise that you are a football fan! Never would have pegged you for that from your writing. I guess I had seen you mention before that you didn't conform to more traditional masculine roles or something like that? I don't know, just not what I pictured.

 

Call it the exception to the rule--I'm non-masculine in all areas, except for my love of football and breasts.

 

Also, you're right: I care more than I should, but I'm trying to work on that. It's a process. And, yes, ENA is all the non-sexual social contact I need. I repress as much as I can, but I do need to vent from time to time. You're also right about my criteria; obviously, I'm slowly rationalizing myself further and further from human interaction. If not for my accursed sex drive, I'd have accomplished this by now. (Note: men have twenty times as much testosterone as women, which means that our sex drive is probably about twenty times more powerful. This explains a lot.)

 

That said, I'm very much anti-PUA. I find it to be creepy, I don't drink (or want to buy women drinks), and I think it feeds into the destructive "attention loop". Honest flattery is one of my main tools, but I've found that I've inflated too many women's egos as a result. Women have so many guys chasing them, I can't imagine what that would do to your self-image and sense of self-importance. PUA stuff is just playing to the idea that they're a princess that's the center of the universe. "Wow, look at how hard this guy is trying to impress me!"

[Blue Spiral]

Short version is it took you forever to get your first girlfriend, she hurt you, and your response was to change who you are. I predict another momentus change in your future.

 

Please, tell me about this prediction, but keep in mind: if you told me it was sunny outside, I'd bring an umbrella and a raincoat.

 

Edit: also, "forever"? Not exactly. There are inexperienced guys on here that are my age. Nice to know you're so incredibly sympathetic to them.

[Blue Spiral]

Lol, trust me when you really REALLY fall in love with a girl you'll just know it and it won't bother you even if you can't have her. It will be a person you will want to be with 24/7 and cheating won't even be in your mind. True love transcends relationships, marriage or owning someone or something, it's a genuine care for another person, at the core of how she is and how you connect not a walking vagina for you to stick your wee wee into.

 

I'm 34. When is this really-falling-in-love going to happen?

[Blue Spiral]

I think if he really wanted to find some FWB's he would be able to do so. No need for sex workers. Also, there are tons of recently divorced women that just want to have fun...

 

I'm constantly finding FWBs, but I don't live in a big city, so it's a bit more challenging. And I've certainly had a lot of luck with recently-divorced women.

[Kristenelaine]

I agree with most of your post, and that probably is a lot of women out there. Not all of us though.

 

Right now I am currently not sleeping with anyone, even thought I am interested in someone. honestly, I just dont trust them to not be sleeping with everyone else.

 

I understand the wanting to click right away, and I have that with someone, BUT, he has been seeing someone for a while now and didnt bother to tell me, or any of the other girls he is having casual sex with.

 

So, usually when a woman doesnt sleep with you it does mean she doesn't want to, for her own reasons. It doesnt always mean she is sleeping with others or looking to. Its been 8 months for me without sex. Not because I don't want it, but because I havent come accross a man who just wants one vagina at a time. I know that casual sex means casual sex and probably with more than one person...but that doesnt work for everyone.

 

It all depends on where a person is at. I want to find more with someone therefore if I have sex with them, even casually, I want it to be exclusively.

[Piep]

I'm 34. When is this really-falling-in-love going to happen?

 

When you are genuinely interested in a person instead of what they can give to you.

[radiohead20]

I'm constantly finding FWBs, but I don't live in a big city, so it's a bit more challenging. And I've certainly had a lot of luck with recently-divorced women.

 

Sorta off topic, but,

 

you seem to be good at finding FWB. This is something that I Am leaning towards right now as an option, as I am too busy with other aspects of my life for a relationship but I still have this damn sex drive that won't go away.

 

Any advice on how to get these? I feel like FWB rely on more superficial factors (looks) that I do not possess and may make it difficult for me to find FWB situations. Although I cannot do anything about my extreme baby-face I have took up weight lifting more seriously to get a lot more muscular along with being a better dresser in order to maximize my looks so that in the near future hopefully I will be attractive enough (hopefully by next summer I hope I things will start to change for my looks). Basically anything to increase the masculinity of my appearance to hopefully produce that automatic animilastic response that women get when they just want some.

 

Also, are you an INTJ? you sound like one.

[Blue Spiral]

When you are genuinely interested in a person instead of what they can give to you.

 

Well, I guess I'll just wait for that to happen, then.

[Blue Spiral]

Let me start by saying that, yes, I'm totally INTJ. I wish there were some sort of INTJ gang-sign I could flash.

 

 

 

I'm not masculine or muscular (super-skinny, though), but I do OK. My personal opinion is that women gravitate towards two types of FWBs: the wild ones that can't be tamed for a relationship, and the more non-threatening ones that are emotionally safe to be around. I'm proud to say that I'm incredibly non-threatening. (Heh, on the Simpsons, Lisa reads a pop-music magazine called Non-Threatening Boys Monthly or something.) Obviously, women want some combination of alpha male behavior and civilized behavior, but when they can't get that combination, they tend to lean towards either extreme, at least temporarily. I've gotten a lot of FWBs just by being a nice guy that pays attention to them and treats them well. When women get hurt, they often seek out a "safe" guy to help them get back on the horse, so to speak. That said, you have to be open about sexual stuff--the more time you spend as just a friend, the greater chance you'll get friend-zoned. You need to bring the issue up ASAP. My view is that, if a woman is attracted to you, she'll be okay with it, and if she isn't, she won't be. When they're not trying to land a husband, many modern women are extremely casual about sex. As I always say, if I can make it work, anyone can. You just need to find the right type of woman at the right time in her life.

[quirky]

You just need to find the right type of woman at the right time in her life.

 

How do you do that, mostly online?